Square Enix Does not care about Stalking/Harassment In Game

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Originally Posted by Chie_M

Exactly why I've decided to quit XIV. I've needed to pursue an IRL restraining order against an XIV stalker.

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The young man from Brazil left the game, completely disheartened, for a long time. The worst part about what I'm seeing going down is that some of us are suspecting that our fc leader was deliberately targeted by another player as a retaliation. Like that never happens, right?

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Originally Posted by Solowing

Why do they need to create a entirely new system when you can ignore them and pretend they arnt there?

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Why should you have to ignore the damage that they could be doing to your FC?

Imagine trying to make a open, welcoming community but you have someone stalking every location your community is at scaring people that might be interested away.

That should be reason enough alone.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Why should you have to ignore the damage that they could be doing to your FC?

Imagine trying to make a open, welcoming community but you have someone stalking every location your community is at scaring people that might be interested away.

That should be reason enough alone.

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Nekomatamata, this person is the one this very thread is about, he is the one actively stalking them, thus the reason of hes "particular" answear

he's also had a meltdown in a different thread where he tried to say xiv is toxic because people will report him for having a "different opinion"

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Originally Posted by anguel

Nekomatamata, this person is the one this very thread is about, he is the one actively stalking them, thus the reason of hes "particular" answear

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I want to ask if you're joking but...

I don't know. Can't say I didn't expect it. Literally no one except a creep would be upset about Square adding more privacy options and improved the blacklist/ignore functions.

It has be definitive to get a warning or ban in this game. Just hanging around and saying predatory behavior is nothing to act upon, like the OP gave no concrete proof the person did something wrong aside from being shady.

Like if they write something in shout chat that's against ToS, it's saved on the servers and could warrant action. Cursing is like an automatic trip. Still love that day when someone told me to turn-on the profanity filter after cursing after I said cut it out. It is nothing but a client setting. It's like a streamer mode for chat so you don't see it inadvertently, but it doesn't prevent the evidence nor action from being taken.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

I want to ask if you're joking but...

I don't know. Can't say I didn't expect it. Literally no one except a creep would be upset about Square adding more privacy options and improved the blacklist/ignore functions.

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https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...30#post5994830
complete with confession and evidence. Provided by the perpetrator xD

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Originally Posted by hagare

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...30#post5994830
complete with confession and evidence. Provided by the perpetrator xD

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Not sure how much more disappointed I can feel. The fact that they're here, on the forums proudly openly acknowledging what they've done.

Shame on them and shame on Square for allowing something like this to be done so openly.

well that was an experience to read, All I'll say is maybe instead of harassing someone in their home, go work on your social skills.

A friend once informed me that there may be an add on that allows you to completely remove players from your game. Not that I would endorse using a 3rd party add on to compensate for SE's inaction towards serious issues like harassment and stalking.

That being said the friends list and blacklist issues are really pathetic and it's even more pathetic that SE refuses to fix them after years and years of being told how bad they are.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

A friend once informed me that there may be an add on that allows you to completely remove players from your game. Not that I would endorse using a 3rd party add on to compensate for SE's inaction towards serious issues like harassment and stalking.

That being said the friends list and blacklist issues are really pathetic and it's even more pathetic that SE refuses to fix them after years and years of being told how bad they are.

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Problem is that, if you do that, then you, too, could have your account terminated with no warning or chance to appeal even if the report is filed maliciously.

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Originally Posted by Bunnykin_M

Problem is that, if you do that, then you, too, could have your account terminated with no warning or chance to appeal even if the report is filed maliciously.

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Yup. Thanks SE for designing a great system I guess.

One solution: An ignore player option that makes the ignored player disappear completely from the game in your view, You don't see any evidence of their existence at all. I suppose it could also work in reverse, so the ignored player wouldn't see anyone who ignored them.
This would have to apply to ignored player's entire account though, to stop them from creating alts to continue the harassment.

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Originally Posted by AithneDorcha

"[...] we cannot share the outcome with you for privacy reasons [...]

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Don't come onto a forum and start saying the GMs are doing nothing when they are legally bound to not share the results of an investigation to the person requesting the investigation. This is not a system to promote revenge games.

Clearly because someone reported my friend because of a typo and then she got permanently banned.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

One solution: An ignore player option that makes the ignored player disappear completely from the game in your view, You don't see any evidence of their existence at all. I suppose it could also work in reverse, so the ignored player wouldn't see anyone who ignored them.
This would have to apply to ignored player's entire account though, to stop them from creating alts to continue the harassment.

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So, are you saying SE should create a system if A dislike B and ban B, B dislike C and ban C; then C ban A for the same reason.
Consider there are so many Kevin/Karen, Strawberries, and a generation raised under toxic Cancel culture, you might as well just ask SE to shut down the game

Man, I have secondhand experience with this as well. A friend was being harassed in a similar fashion, and after reporting them we got that exact same message word for word.
Meanwhile, if you tell a tank to stop toggling his stance you can get reported for forcing a playstyle lmao. Or if you stream with a damage meter in the corner you can get a 10 day ban.
Get your priorities straight please, Square.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Don't come onto a forum and start saying the GMs are doing nothing when they are legally bound to not share the results of an investigation to the person requesting the investigation. This is not a system to promote revenge games.

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Funny enough the person that this entire thread is about already posted here, so seems like GM is not doing their jobs lol

Think it can be self inflicted as well? ALSO.. lock the door put the person black list, if that help anything, it is not illegal in FFXIV to enter an open House/FC.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

Funny enough the person that this entire thread is about already posted here, so seems like GM is not doing their jobs lol

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Oh they do their jobs. It's just that lots of people think harassment is something other than what it actually is. Having a guy jump around inside an FC house to be annoying is not harassment and in fact, FCs can restrict who can enter the FC house to strictly FC members so I'm not sure why they haven't done that. I mean, I've seen true harassment in the game before and the extreme lengths some folks go to on it. Think reactivating an old FC website that everyone forgot exists just to backdoor into a discord to write a gaslight post based on some set of events that happened about 5-6 years ago, and was willing to pay the monthly fee to reactivate said website.

Like, truly weird stuff happens in long running MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Oh they do their jobs. It's just that lots of people think harassment is something other than what it actually is. Having a guy jump around inside an FC house to be annoying is not harassment and in fact, FCs can restrict who can enter the FC house to strictly FC members so I'm not sure why they haven't done that. I mean, I've seen true harassment in the game before and the extreme lengths some folks go to on it. Think reactivating an old FC website that everyone forgot exists just to backdoor into a discord to write a gaslight post based on some set of events that happened about 5-6 years ago, and was willing to pay the monthly fee to reactivate said website.

Like, truly weird stuff happens in long running MMOs.

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I mean it's still harassment lol even if they don't lock their FC house. Per the OP the offender (who, once again, is in this thread!) is stalking FC members, going into the FC house despite being told not to, and leaving messages. IDC if they lock the door or not, that kind of behavior IS harassment and is deserving of being thrown into GM baby jail. What's true harassment to you? lol, as soon as you overstep boundaries and continue to knowingly do so, it's harassment my man.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

I mean it's still harassment lol even if they don't lock their FC house. Per the OP the offender (who, once again, is in this thread!) is stalking FC members, going into the FC house despite being told not to, and leaving messages. IDC if they lock the door or not, that kind of behavior IS harassment and is deserving of being thrown into GM baby jail. What's true harassment to you? lol, as soon as you overstep boundaries and continue to knowingly do so, it's harassment my man.

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Problem is what exactly is this person doing while following someone around. If the player is doing constant emotes whenever the other guy is standing still that's definitely a problem. If he's haunting the FC house like a ghost but otherwise isn't spamming emotes and is just kind of unwelcomed, that is kind of hard to really call harassment. It's disturbing behavior but they aren't defaming, slandering, or impeding someone in some way.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Think it can be self inflicted as well? ALSO.. lock the door put the person black list, if that help anything, it is not illegal in FFXIV to enter an open House/FC.

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I've watched people who have been harassed and stalked in-game. Sure, harassers/stalkers can be blacklisted and people can lock their housing doors but the harassing player can still say or shout things that defame the targeted player. They can still emote spam them when their target is in locations that they can find or follow them around playing high pitched piercing sounds in bard performance. Are you going to tell the victims of this stuff that they can no longer go into cities and must shut off bard performance (not a freudian slip, I swear!) as well? If someone is abusing someone in a game, they will find many methods to do so and I would ask why the victim should be the one to bear the brunt of what they must do to actually enjoy the game? And what kind of enjoyment can they have if they fear that this person who is stalking them will turn up wherever they are or are trying to dismantle the relationships they have with other players in the game? Why must the victim of this kind of thing bear all the consequences? That seems so wrong.

Those who stalk and harass are doing so because it makes them feel powerful. All SE is doing when they do nothing about it is empower those who stalk and harass even more.

That's just funny honestly. Sounds more like griefing than stalking.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

and in fact, FCs can restrict who can enter the FC house to strictly FC members so I'm not sure why they haven't done that.

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If they do this, not only do you lock our the harasser, you also lock out neighbors, friendly passers-by, friends of FC members, alts in other FC's and so on. An entire FC shouldn't have to lose access to having any visitors because of a single stalker.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

If they do this, not only do you lock our the harasser, you also lock out neighbors, friendly passers-by, friends of FC members, alts in other FC's and so on. An entire FC shouldn't have to lose access to having any visitors because of a single stalker.

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It's the best short term option in these situations and we've done it before.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

If they do this, not only do you lock our the harasser, you also lock out neighbors, friendly passers-by, friends of FC members, alts in other FC's and so on. An entire FC shouldn't have to lose access to having any visitors because of a single stalker.

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It's as if meeting your friends at their FC or going to a city/zone to hang out isn't an option. Neighbors also apparently dont exist in housing zones so passerby's are a stretch. It's better to cut the person off from access and force them to make a scene out of frustration. That's an actual ToS violation and will get a GM to actually do something compared to them clearly not seeing a problem with someone visiting the FC.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Oh they do their jobs. It's just that lots of people think harassment is something other than what it actually is. Having a guy jump around inside an FC house to be annoying is not harassment and in fact, FCs can restrict who can enter the FC house to strictly FC members so I'm not sure why they haven't done that. I mean, I've seen true harassment in the game before and the extreme lengths some folks go to on it. Think reactivating an old FC website that everyone forgot exists just to backdoor into a discord to write a gaslight post based on some set of events that happened about 5-6 years ago, and was willing to pay the monthly fee to reactivate said website.

Like, truly weird stuff happens in long running MMOs.

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irrelevant. They were asked to leave private property and they didn't.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Problem is what exactly is this person doing while following someone around. If the player is doing constant emotes whenever the other guy is standing still that's definitely a problem. If he's haunting the FC house like a ghost but otherwise isn't spamming emotes and is just kind of unwelcomed, that is kind of hard to really call harassment. It's disturbing behavior but they aren't defaming, slandering, or impeding someone in some way.

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It doesn't matter what they're doing lol, if they're coming back after being expressively told they're not welcome it is harassment. If they did emotes and acted like an ass in say it makes it worse, but the fact is, you're sitting around someone's FC house after being told to leave is intentionally making everyone uncomfortable. And let's not forget, that they are targeting not just the OP, but the entire FC. Stalkers have a great way of "I'm not really breaking the rules, I didn't do anything to you!" But they fully know they're not welcome and that their presence is the problem.

If it happens to me I'd shoot the perpetrator with a nerf gun.

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Originally Posted by hagare

irrelevant. They were asked to leave private property and they didn't.

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Thinking neighborhood style housing where people purposefully keep their doors unlocked to allow for people to enter their homes is private is a choice.

If the OP locked their doors and the person still refused to leave, that would be more in line with your logic of thinking. It's not private unless you make it private.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

If the OP locked their doors and the person still refused to leave, that would be more in line with your logic of thinking. It's not private unless you make it private.

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They did.
And they asked her to leave. Which she refused.
Anything else?

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Originally Posted by hagare

They did.
And they asked her to leave. Which she refused.
Anything else?

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They stated multiple times they don't want to lock their doors because it prevents their FC members inviting people over and something about static members not being able to be inside.
Where are you getting that they did?

Also, still doesn't change the fact that unless the person is pushed to actually violate the ToS, they're not going to do anything. Being in someone's FC house and not doing anything other than existing there isn't enough. They have to either resort to spamming something or verbally insulting someone. My person simply following me from zone to zone was not enough for the GMs, it was only at the point of her resorting to spamming slap emotes and sending messages in whisper to myself and friends that they stepped in. They expect us to handle issues that arise unless it gets to the point of someone actually being threatened or someone committing harmful acts.

Remember when you could just leave your doors unlocked in the neighborhood? Those were the days. :/

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

They stated multiple times they don't want to lock their doors because it prevents their FC members inviting people over and something about static members not being able to be inside.
Where are you getting that they did?

Also, still doesn't change the fact that unless the person is pushed to actually violate the ToS, they're not going to do anything. Being in someone's FC house and not doing anything other than existing there isn't enough. They have to either resort to spamming something or verbally insulting someone. My person simply following me from zone to zone was not enough for the GMs, it was only at the point of her resorting to spamming slap emotes and sending messages in whisper to myself and friends that they stepped in. They expect us to handle issues that arise unless it gets to the point of someone actually being threatened or someone committing harmful acts.

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lemme try this another way, not locking your house does not turn your house into public property.

Having more options like a white list for individual players or a full FC will help. This current choice of everyone can't enter or no one is bad.

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Originally Posted by Misplaced_Marbles

But they won't do that for any rule to avoid getting called out for their inaction. Although i'm sure you know this, the rules are vague and up for interpretation by design.

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This. If SE explicitly says that something is against the rules, then the onus is on them to enforce the rules, but if they purposely keep the rules vague then they don't have to enforce them. Enforcing rules requires manpower/money, so from a monetary standpoint its beneficial to SE to leave these issues unresolved.

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Originally Posted by hagare

lemme try this another way, not locking your house does not turn your house into public property.

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Technically, in a game, not locking your house turns it into "anyone can get in, no one gets kept out, being in your house is not a violation of the Terms of Service". The privacy setting is binary - either you lock everyone who doesn't belong out, or you let everyone in.

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Originally Posted by hagare

lemme try this another way, not locking your house does not turn your house into public property.

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Not public property per se but for game purposes it does grant public access to anyone that wishes to enter.

I think a lot of FCs could stand to review their rank settings if they're worried about unwanted visitors to their FC house but want their members to be able to invite friends in. Just assign trusted members Guest Access/Estate Tag Settings in the rank hierarchy settings. That way the door can be kept locked most of the time but if someone's friend is visiting, a member can briefly unlock the door to let them in.

If that one FC would stop reacting to their unwanted visitor and giving them the attention they crave, they'd probably get bored with their little game and find something else to do. People who do things like that are attention seekers who only know how to play stupid games to get it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Not public property per se but for game purposes it does grant public access to anyone that wishes to enter.

I think a lot of FCs could stand to review their rank settings if they're worried about unwanted visitors to their FC house but want their members to be able to invite friends in. Just assign trusted members Guest Access/Estate Tag Settings in the rank hierarchy settings. That way the door can be kept locked most of the time but if someone's friend is visiting, a member can briefly unlock the door to let them in.

If that one FC would stop reacting to their unwanted visitor and giving them the attention they crave, they'd probably get bored with their little game and find something else to do. People who do things like that are attention seekers who only know how to play stupid games to get it.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Technically, in a game, not locking your house turns it into "anyone can get in, no one gets kept out, being in your house is not a violation of the Terms of Service". The privacy setting is binary - either you lock everyone who doesn't belong out, or you let everyone in.

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it's kind of amazing how people are defending stalking and harassing because they didn't lock the door.
That is as dumb as people saying. "You can't scan the item, it must be free"