How about nothing gets removed /replaced/changed and no one punished
SE man up and provide enough
NO MORE EXCUSES
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06-09-2022, 10:44 PMMistyMew
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06-09-2022, 10:48 PMStormpeaksExactly this tbh, "please take away other people's houses so I can have a tiny chance at getting one !!!" is really not it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MistyMew
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06-09-2022, 10:51 PMSeraphorThey literally can't, server space costs real money and real space. They may have to rent our more physical space to store more physical servers (for which there is a chip shortage).Quote:
Originally Posted by MistyMew
They're already working on adding more world servers for EU this summer, it's a long process.
They may eventually get around to adding more server space for housing once the higher priority stuff is out of the way, but it'll be a handful of additional wards, and it still won't ever meet demands.
The system is just fundamentally stunted. -
06-09-2022, 10:52 PMStormpeaksAlways a good excuse huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
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06-09-2022, 10:55 PMSeraphorIf you call a reason an excuse, sure, you can just stick your fingers in your ears and scream as loud as you can. See how far that gets you Karen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormpeaks
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06-09-2022, 11:24 PMStormpeaksYes I'm a Karen because I can see that they dont care about fixing housing, sure buddyQuote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
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06-09-2022, 11:36 PMGeminiReedThis keeps getting thrown around. Has he reiterated that position recently? I'm reasonably confident that he is painfully aware that the ward system simply isn't living up to their expectations and has been nothing but a source of bad PR since it's been released. The servers and the services they run to manage the interior instances are just barely able to keep up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
I'm not cutting them any slack but I do understand the complexities of the problems they need to solve. Unfortunately they are also ridiculously tight-lipped about development projects until they're ready for release. I'm just hoping they're working on an alternative before housing collapses under its own weight.
TL;DR: I very much doubt the reasons have anything to do with obsession over a pipe dream. -
06-09-2022, 11:42 PMPaduduExplain Island Sanctuary being instanced then, since apparently that also takes up server spaceQuote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
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06-09-2022, 11:47 PMLihtleitawe still dont know what exactly island sanctuary actually is. it could be housing in the same way fc airships are transportation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Padudu
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06-09-2022, 11:50 PMPaduduThey explained it as being "your personal space where your minions can run around", so idk how that can be interpreted as anything other than being an instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihtleita
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06-09-2022, 11:58 PMAzuriI can already see the pre-6.3 Live Letter. "Well now that we've added Island Sanctuary we don't have capacity for instanced houses too."Quote:
Originally Posted by Padudu
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06-10-2022, 12:10 AMPadudulol, that might be the biggest troll move that they could pull by far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azuri
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06-10-2022, 12:11 AMBoldprint
housing is broken in the game, it will always be broken in the game. its been years and years and they will not ever fix it. there has so many suggestions that would work. before people say not everyone should get housing, it was effin advertised that way from the start. they could of removed the need for it with island sanctuaries, but that has been pushed from "spring" to august and even that i think will not be what people hope for. until they wipe out all housing so no one is grand fathered or make unlimited instanced wards, the housing will always be broken in the game.
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06-10-2022, 12:12 AMSeraphorNo you're a Karen because you're demanding they change something you don't understand the issue with and won't accept any explanation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormpeaks
I want my medium rare chicken steak and I want it now! -
06-10-2022, 12:15 AMPaduduThey're a Karen because.. *checks notes* they want to utilize an advertise feature of a game that they & everyone else pays for monthly/yearly? For a system that is incredibly flawed and has been going on for years? Ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
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06-10-2022, 12:23 AMAelin_Ashryver
Another thread trying to take things away from players. It won't happen. People salty over personal housing have had years to get over it by now.
The cost to fix their poor design choice should not be paid by we the players. If devs want to remove the stain on their record it is for them to find the resources to do so without taking homes away from people who have had them and paid a sub to keep them for years. As a consumer I don't care what the difficulties are, I can understand chip shortages but at the end of the day I really don't care when this is an issue that has been present since before those issues arose. And we can only assume at the moment that island sanctuary will be an instance for each individual player, so they clearly have some capability of pulling of instanced housing in some fashion.
It's an advertised part of the game, owning your own little slice of Eorzea, and they are failing to fulfil that promise. Taking away from those that have managed to get a house is not the way to fix the problem and sounds incredibly petty. -
06-10-2022, 12:27 AMPaduduWhat about returners/new players who haven't had years lol, I came back right before EWalker launch and just walked into this mess :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver
Also, I hope you have the same attitude for the rest of their messes - roles/jobs feel samey, viera/hrothgar - "you've had years to get over it".
But yes, I agree, they put themselves into this corner, no reason why the consumers (the people who have already purchased plots), should get hit negatively. It's up to SE to fix it, not punish people further lol. -
06-10-2022, 12:35 AMJohners
The solution isn't to take away FC housing, the solution is ensure an FC is actually an active FC. Personal housing is easily "policed" with auto demolition based on an activity level for the individual character/account. I know the system hasn't been active since Endwalker released, extended because of the war in Ukraine but that's not ending soon so should be enabled again, but personal housing is lost by one person not playing.
FC housing should ultimately be judged by the activity level of the entire FC and should fall in line with the requirements needed to bid in the FC raffle. You need to meet a few levels for FC age and having a minimum of four members but realistically you should probably be maintaining activity and members levels to keep a house. If they have a hard cut off for being able to raffle an FC house, the same cut off should be utilised to keep it. That way genuine FCs can obtain and keep a house but people abusing the system, which I know several people that did, actually have to maintain an FC to keep their FC house. Likewise, I know of a few completely dead FCs, that have been dead for years, with medium and large houses (much limited in number) that is just a personal house for the FC owner now.
A limited housing system is always going to shaft someone but I'd be ok with house-owning FCs actually having to stay active to keep their house. Old FCs that died or new FCs created just to workaround bidding requirements are an acceptable "loss". -
06-10-2022, 12:40 AMAelin_AshryverWell if you are new and part of an FC atm you have and have had a prio on wards now and previously. Any FC who has wanted a house realistically should have had one on all but the most bursting of servers. So the question then would be why the salt over personal? Esp atm when they are relegated to a few wards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Padudu
But even that feels like nit picking, I rather we can all just have a house that we can upgrade into larger sizes and with a more realistic item limit for large plots because 400 is a joke. Housing could be such a huge draw for this game if they spent the time on it, lets yoink some of those sims players over here... -
06-10-2022, 12:42 AMShougunI imagine it's a little bit of column a and a bit more from column b.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeminiReed
We know that he is a big fan of some of those older school MMOs, including calling Dark Age of Camelot as a fond mmo experience- which has a housing system very very similar to the one we currently have. It wouldn't be, imo, unreasonable to suggest that he liked that system and thus made it again.
That said we also know things like they programmed with fixed memory in mind to optimize better, LONG LONG ago they talked about how things were not set up very dynamically and perhaps this allowed them to work on the PS3 but it causes some challenges too. As we're all aware FFXIV has a fixed limit on a lot of things, including # of account wide items (they've said that they can't make all mogshop purchases account wide due to memory. . . lol).
I very much imagine that housing hasn't been massively improved because of the latter (server issues), but that the beginning of all of this was born out of a personal appreciation of a system he liked. Though said earlier in the thread I do think their original plan would have worked better, if the system was FC housing only. As the major benefit of the system would have been supported by higher population density. If they had an 'easy' ability to make the system meet the player demand I think they would have done it already to be honest. I imagine the Island Sanctuaries might try to alleviate some of the player desire by giving them a homestead like concept, and I think it will work for some players, but hopefully they can slowly upgrade the system to also incorporate housing. I think a -in the meantime- help to that would be doing something like allowing players an inn room space to be build (perhaps using inn rooms you've discovered in game), upgrading the apartment system so everyone can have one, allowing players to connect their apartment to a structure in the sanctuary, upgrading the apartment system further when possible (like second floor).
Of course also said previously but I would have much preferred a Wildstar, ESO, hell, personally, WoW approach- though I would note the WoW system is not really a housing system and so the list is in order (wildstar, ESO, WoW).. though I think the WoW system would be VERY cool if they added customize-able house to the rest of it.. which would increase the rank given to it by quite a bit. -
06-10-2022, 01:02 AMLihtleitait could literally be an 8bit tamagotchi screen and fill those parameters is what im saying. it could literally be lords of verminion with a custom backdrop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Padudu
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06-10-2022, 01:16 AMSeraphorThe system is incredibly flawed. AgreedQuote:
Originally Posted by Padudu
People are perfectly entitled to want to be able to use it, to want it to function better than it does.
Unfortunately magic isn't real and no amount of screaming to JUST DO IT NO EXCUSES will actually get it done.
If they could do it, they would have done it.
None of you have ever worked a service job and it shows. -
06-10-2022, 01:23 AMAelin_AshryverSure, neither will being understanding and quiet either. If the community accepted 'it cant be done' we wouldn't have some of the things we have now. Yoshi P didn't even want bun bois to be a thing. Forums are for feedback. If it is appropriate to bitch anywhere, it's here. Most critical posts are not just REEEEEEEE they have some valid points to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
It's pretty fair imo to get tired of hearing excuses for problems that have been a thing for years. I love our dev team but SE as a whole is a greedy company. Who is to say they couldn't have provided us with what we ask for? FFXIV is one of their biggest earners and it feels underserved atm. -
06-10-2022, 01:29 AMSeraphorAbsolutely correct, I'm not ranting about legitimate criticism here. I was literally replying to someone who said "GET IT DONE NO EXCUSES"Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver
If you make your criticism shrill, ignorant and demanding, it's not going to be taken seriously. -
06-10-2022, 01:39 AMPadudulol, I literally work a service job. Sometimes two during the summer! I love my customers too! But when my company/employees fail on some things, I don't make excuses. I don't tell customers, "Sorry you've experienced this problem, but that's just the way it is, deal with it".Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
SE is, quite literally, a multimillion dollar company, so how many years do you want them to ride out the "we can't handle it, sorry fam." If they can't, maybe don't implement it to begin with. We pay for a service, so like.. we can reasonably be upset about some things. Sure, people can word things nicer, but then you have the whole healer fiasco which went as: "Hey, as a healer, things are easy, can you make it difficult and engaging for us too?" and they get hit with: "You want engaging content, go play ultimate". Is that good customer service to you? So why then, is it acceptable for SE to constantly handwave the housing issue with "servers can't handle it". We have apartments, we have instanced content, among other implementations, that are incoming. Its not like this is a brand new issue either.
With a push for this game being more solo, it doesn't surprise me that people want personals more than FC housing tbh. Especially if:Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver
1) You're in a FC already, but the lead/officers don't let you decorate/garden/airship/blahblah
2) You don't want to join a FC solely for the house (I join mine for social reasons, for example, the house is the bonus).
So that leads you either with - personal, or making a FC suited for you and maybe a small group of friends, which in the end.. yeah, boils down to "you shouldn't have to". But yeah I agree upgrades would be good, the 400 item limit gets eaten up quick. Ideally, I just want a way to remove the bottom/columns and just making it plain or customizable. I mean part of that item limit gets eaten up by people trying to cover it up lol
Lords of Verminion is an instance lol - also go relook at the live letter; it's doubtful it's be the 8bit tamagotchi screen. I know we like to yoga stretch here, but c'mon now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihtleita
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06-10-2022, 01:46 AMJillian
Why do almost all of these topics that offer suggestions to solve the housing crisis aim to punish the players who already have houses? FC Housing should not be taken away and neither should personal housing. Poor, tiny, small indie company SE needs to do something like implement instanced housing. Stop trying to punish players for SE's inadequate housing system.
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06-10-2022, 01:46 AMSeraphorAnd yet you're displaying a ton of reductionist and frankly selfish mentality here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Padudu
When Housing was implemented, it was fit for purpose, it wasn't however futureproof. That was an oversight, but "just don't make it to begin with" isn't a solution. People have already engaged with the system. What do you expect them to do? Remove all the houses people have already obtained in order to "just not do it at all"?
They don't have the resources to "just add more servers", and what resources they do have they're spending on adding more general server capacity because if you didn't notice, the game was bursting at the seams at Endwalkers release. It took them 3 months to add the Oceanic servers, another 3 for the additional EU servers this summer, and then more US servers next year too. (each of these come with their fair share of additional housing servers too btw)
You're not seeing the whole picture here, you're just looking at how it affects you and complaining when you are inconvenienced.
"Hey, as a healer, things are easy, can you make it difficult and engaging for us too?"
Unfortunately the gameplay has to be balanced for a range of player skills, and as we've already seen by complaints that "solo duties are too hard", the lowest common denominator is sadly getting lower and lower. They have to keep everyone happy, which is an impossible task, because you can't keep everyone happy all the time. the best you can do when you have such a large consumer base is to keep some of the people happy some of the time.
The game has a range of content at different difficulties, making the base game any harder will alienate players, so if you want difficult content, you need to play the difficult content. What a crazy concept. -
06-10-2022, 01:55 AMPaduduSelfish because I frankly don't like what SE has been doing lately? Sure, call me selfish I guess lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
True, it was an oversight. Personal housing, IMO, should just have not been implemented to begin with :P Or if they were; didn't make it to compete with FCs. And yes, if all SE can do is just throw bandaids at a problem, then maybe they just shouldn't just.. implement it. Just like they shouldn't have added Viera/Hrothgar if it's "too hard to accomodate for their models". Sorry that's hard to hear for you lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
Also, I never said to remove houses - like I said before, SE put themselves in this corner, it's too late to go back and remove houses at this point since it's such a grounded feature for many, many people. So either the solutions (in my mind is): to add more wards (lol), or instanced housing (also lol), two things which will either take about until 2025 for them to add, or for them to never add at all. So here we are.
Yeah, that's just all about I had to hear from you to know that you're okay with SE's constant excuse upon excuse lol. When you can literally SIT there as a healer feeling like you have nothing to do or that you don't contribute to a party in any way that's not ultimate content, that's a problem. Telling people, who want to enjoy regular content with a bit more of an oomph to "just do ultimate", is not a good customer service response period. It is handwaving their concerns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
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06-10-2022, 02:02 AMSeraphor"Screw all the players who want content they can manage, I'm more important."Quote:
Originally Posted by Padudu
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06-10-2022, 02:04 AMPaduduI'm sorry to hear that's all you can take away from all that lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
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06-10-2022, 02:07 AMJojoyaNo one NEEDS anything in this game. Let's just remove everything because it's all pointless luxury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamsoap
That will leave the game in good shape, right? Nothing for players left to fight over. -
06-10-2022, 02:10 AMSeraphorHonestly, I think they should have just limited Mediums and Larges to FC's only, and allowed you to upgrade Apartments to the same interior as small houses for a lower price of about 1.5mil, while making you choose between a small house plot or an apartment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
This would have meant more plots for FC's only, and made apartments comparable to houses so they're a fairer alternative.
Coulda would shoulda of course, but this way no one would be expecting a medium or large personal house, if it was always done this way. -
06-10-2022, 02:21 AMThemarvin
They should rather let entirely go of personal housing whenever it get to it and put som better restrictions onto FC houses.
Would solve the entire problem for good. -
06-10-2022, 03:45 AMRenalt
I made my Solo FC for 3 reasons.
1. I wanted my FC name of Riskbreaker
2. FC chest of my very own - My inventory is so spacious right now
3. I was tired of the constant blind invites. -
06-10-2022, 04:33 AMEradenI agree with your take on this Jojoya. The problem that I see with regards to people just casually tossing the issue of housing aside as it is nothing more than a "luxury", is that they don't really understand human behavior very well with respect to this sort of thing. Humans have an almost instinctive need to have something they can call home. Nobody should be surprised then, especially not SE (they should have at least a semi competent marketing department), that people would seek such a feature out even within a virtual environment. When housing was made available for personal use, a Pandora's box was opened that can never be closed again without tanking this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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06-10-2022, 05:04 AMNekoMataMata
I love how everyone is simply going at each other's throats and attempting to remove content that they deem useless, redundant and unnecessary despite it clearly being valuable to other people.
Why can't we just even out the the personal house to fc house ratio? It definitely shouldn't be what it is currently. 50:50 or more likely a little more towards 55-70ish for personal houses since FCs should be more condensed. There's no reason to outright remove either though. -
06-10-2022, 05:35 PMKirajah
The solution isnt to remove FC housing or personal housing.
There is clearly a demand for personal housing. One of the plots I bid on last cycle had 411+ bids on it. Meanwhile half of the ward my FC is in is completely empty with no bids on any of those houses. We don't know when, or if they will fill. And it is Empyreum, too! Its not just our ward, practically every small in wards 1-18 in Empyreum are empty. - Even some of the Mediums are! Thats over 100 houses that are empty and in the new and shiny neighbourhood. There are people that would love those homes for their personals, even the smalls. But instead they have to fight over the scraps that are wards 19-24. Its worse when you lose a personal house in one of the OG neighbourhoods in wards 1-18 and you can't buy it for your personal. Its FC only now. And being FC only does encourage personal FCs. I'm honestly tempted to leave my decently large FC to get one of these mediums for just myself. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I would much rather buy it as a personal.
They made the housing situation even worse and I didn't even know that was possible. Its time to open up all the wards to be available to personal buyers. FCs had their first dibs.
More wards are necessary, and there is a clear and obvious demand for personals, but that doesn't mean FCs should lose housing privileges. More wards is only a Band-Aid fix. Apartments aren't big enough to fix the problem. Island Sanctuary apparently isn't going to either based on what little we know about it. We need something like the Serenitea Pot from Genshin Impact! -
06-10-2022, 10:32 PMShougunDon't think they made it worse, given what the system does well is best supported by FCs (and was the original plan of the system), main issue being is since there isn't a crazy number of FCs the FCs are filtering through the most desirable plots first. Though perhaps a plot that has no bids for two cycles in a row could become open to all (or three?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirajah
Of course the whole shell FC thing is embarrassing and unfortunate.
And yes, the solution is instanced housing :). It /always/ has been lol.
My hope is that Island Sanctuary is going to start out as a nice homestead vibe which will give the 'homely' place some people are looking for right away, but the system will continue to be improved and will ultimately become instanced housing in essence (like the cheap first step might be a house you can build that is pre-built and has housing features- like inn rooms, later apartment room, later apartment room system upgrades, etc). -
06-10-2022, 11:51 PMJojoyaPlayer can buy apartments instead of worrying about losing their private chambers when leaving/removed from their FC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamsoap
Workshops tend to be the plaything of officers that keep the loot for themselves.
The Empyreum ward my FC is in has only FC houses. Is the ward active when I'm there (and I'm there several times a day)?
No. An individual FC house might be active but the ward itself is not because members at usually at their house, not running around the ward.
The wards will never live up to their potential because the design doesn't take into account that this game is not primarily about housing. The bulk of the content is elsewhere so players spend the bulk of their time elsewhere. With what little time they do spend at their housing, they're more likely to be in it than wandering around in the ward outside it.
I'm not looking to have FC houses removed, but I'm also not looking to have personal houses removed either. What I want is for SE to fix the system so every player has the ability to engage with it fully instead of limiting that engagement to the handful of players who are the officers in a FC.
Evening out the ratio would help a little but still wouldn't solve the overall supply problem. There are far more players than there are FCs.Quote:
Originally Posted by NekoMataMata
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06-10-2022, 11:53 PMSturmChurroPeople say it provides an active ward, but I have yet to see that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamsoap