Why are newer players more abusive towards mentors?

I barely notice mentors in my parties. I never ever see anyone trashing them in dungeons, or the opposite. And Faerie NN is pretty chill.

People are mentors only for the crown icon next to their name. Remove that, and you'll have any other average player. Every time I had a mentor in my group as a sprout, they just spewed nonsense and were extremely passive aggressive, all because they're aiming for the mount at 2k roulettes.

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Originally Posted by Novae

I barely notice mentors in my parties. I never ever see anyone trashing them in dungeons, or the opposite. And Faerie NN is pretty chill.

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as I mentioned, it happens in outside third party chat tools such as discord
same happens when it's a 7/8 static and they fill the last person with party finder, the amount of toxicity towards that one person in voice chat is astounding

There's a lot of really bad mentors out there who teach things that are wrong, leave duties that they don't like because they just want the mount, yell at sprouts, don't know how to play various duties, etc.
It comes from Mentor being extremely easy to get, the commends just come from 6-12 months of playing normally and all of the fights can be unsync cleared in PF for easy kills.
So, there's a lot of mentors who did it for the prestige, the ego boost, and the status symbol who really have no idea how to help other players, have no intention of helping other players, or don't know what they're trying to teach.

That's why people don't respect them, it flat out doesn't mean anything. It's just an RP crown and a way to keep talking in NN like it's a general chat.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

There's a lot of really bad mentors out there who teach things that are wrong, leave duties that they don't like because they just want the mount, yell at sprouts, don't know how to play various duties, etc.
It comes from Mentor being extremely easy to get, the commends just come from 6-12 months of playing normally and all of the fights can be unsync cleared in PF for easy kills.
So, there's a lot of mentors who did it for the prestige, the ego boost, and the status symbol who really have no idea how to help other players, have no intention of helping other players, or don't know what they're trying to teach.

That's why people don't respect them, it flat out doesn't mean anything. It's just an RP crown and a way to keep talking in NN like it's a general chat.

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I'm sorry, what? 6-12 months? I got the necessary commends in just 1,5 months because I played healer.

Mentors are supposed to try n smooth out the rough content new players attempt doing when they que for EX/Savage content.

Instead of trying to explain that this is generally cleared in the party finder groups or giving it a shot anyway after trying to explain the mechanics mentors either leave or the people who qued are toxic towards the person trying to say "hey this fights mechanics are super complex so if u guys wanna try here's how it works."

In reality it's a flaw on both sides of the spectrum and really the requirements are insanely low. Idk how it works on JP data centers but I imagine it's slightly better than English ones.

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Originally Posted by Katori96

Mentors are supposed to try n smooth out the rough content new players attempt doing when they que for EX/Savage content.

Instead of trying to explain that this is generally cleared in the party finder groups or giving it a shot anyway after trying to explain the mechanics mentors either leave or the people who qued are toxic towards the person trying to say "hey this fights mechanics are super complex so if u guys wanna try here's how it works."

In reality it's a flaw on both sides of the spectrum and really the requirements are insanely low. Idk how it works on JP data centers but I imagine it's slightly better than English ones.

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As someone who has done synced EX fights both in DF and in the PF, synced PF parties do not generally fill. Saying to take it to PF or to get a static is a polite way of a mentor telling you to F off for ruining their mentor roulette streak.

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

Mentors are just sprouts in denial which hide their sprout icon beneath a cheap plastic burgerking crown.

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It's a shame that such a generalistic, personal attack is upvoted / liked but here we are.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

This is true of any "high skill" trophy. As you noted yourself, the Ultimate titles get it, and the weapons too. The whole "Ohoho this supposedly great player made a mistake!" thing - as if, yes, they should have perfect knowledge of every encounter, never have an off day or try a new job, etc etc.

It's just amplified with mentors because people remember bad encounters (like the example in Ranaku's post) from what people see as role models, and that in turn adds a stigma to being a mentor and so it goes.

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This is essentially what it boils down to. It's not the status (though the crown has never helped in NA/EU), and not even the intent of earnest mentors - rather, it's the assumption that mentors should be perfect at everything and simply aren't, and at the root of that assumption is that in order to get the crown, you have to clear every current extreme, and the fact that Mentor Roulette routinely puts you into EX fights. And it's simply unnecessary. The point of the Mentor system should be nothing more than to to help people who are new to the game and simply don't understand where to find something, or how their class/job is played, how basic mechanics/systems work. Mentors shouldn't need to be - nor should they be assumed to be - fonts of knowledge over every single fight and every single aspect of the game. If you're going up against an extreme trial (and - somehow - you're not in a PF or static) it should be assumed that you already know everything you need to know about the basics, and therefore you shouldn't need mentor guidance.

Siren NN is mostly a social channel that shows new players that people actually talk in this game instead of ignoring each other. Occasionally we drop what we're talking about to answer questions and share hunt locations with the sprouts - at least in the morning. NN after dark is a different beast I have little experience with.

But I am getting sick of being painted with a broad brush by some of you people who are butt-hurt that some randoms on the internet gave them a bad day.

I don't give a rip about some mount
I don't even wear my crown.

So kindly take your attitude about the few bad ones we have and shove it.

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Originally Posted by Keddera_StormMoon

But I am getting sick of being painted with a broad brush by some of you people who are butt-hurt that some randoms on the internet gave them a bad day.

I don't give a rip about some mount
I don't even wear my crown.

So kindly take your attitude about the few bad ones we have and shove it.

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This is my take on it all.

I've only had my crown actively displayed when I renew my mentorship until I remember to hide it again, and when I ran the Mentor Roulette - which is honestly where I found the most toxic mentors, especially when they get into an older EX trial and instantly are yelling at sprouts, and calling them idiots(or much worse, which gets instantly reported when I finish the duty - whether it be success or failure). SE gave the option to leave a duty if you don't get something you like. Yes, you may suffer the penalty...but that is on you to decide if you want to do something else for 30min, or see if the sprouts can do the job.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

As someone who has done synced EX fights both in DF and in the PF, synced PF parties do not generally fill. Saying to take it to PF or to get a static is a polite way of a mentor telling you to F off for ruining their mentor roulette streak.

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I mean its fair enough but I wasn't trying to make it come off as the mentor should say "take it to the PF" but rather explain its generally the norm but we can see what hsppens.

Thing is OP is doing the same thing they are against, they make something they see as a problem bigger than it might be. Sure there might be new players hating on mentors but are they really that many? Is it not only anecdotal evidence?

At the end of the day both sides here just put out their personal experiences and are just exactly the same.

Only thing that is universally true and a fact is that SE doesn't care about removing the bad eggs on either side.

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

Thing is OP is doing the same thing they are against, they make something they see as a problem bigger than it might be. Sure there might be new players hating on mentors but are they really that many? Is it not only anecdotal evidence?

At the end of the day both sides here just put out their personal experiences and are just exactly the same.

Only thing that is universally true and a fact is that SE doesn't care about removing the bad eggs on either side.

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I mean this is almost a point. However, the difference is the OP isnt encouraging or accepting of hate towards anyone. Just point out hate towards a particular group of people. If you can agree online raging and bullying is wrong on all sides of the equation because all players need to be treated on a personal and individual level then I think that would be the optimal take here.

On the darker side of your SE comment...
Bad eggs pay money all the same, sooo.. I'm sure they look the other way if they can. To their credit though, GMs are a known force in this game, so however lax they may seem they at least exist versus most other games.

I won't ever call out a mentor or bash them but man, when I started playing FF14 around 6ish months ago, I saw all the mentor jokes and just passed it off as a bit of a yuckle, just a meme. I just assumed mentors had the same statistical distribution of good/bad players as the general population. Then I encountered mentors in the game.

They aren't all bad, but if there is a raging narcissist control freak in your group or someone who literally runs seemingly deliberately to stand in every single AOE and mechanic, there is a not insignificant chance it is the mentor (at least anecdotally in my experience). I would say most sprouts aren't being influenced, they are just seeing the actual outcomes in groups and coming to their own conclusions. Plus a bad mentor will stick in your memory more than a bad random player because they have the crown which is supposed to show experience.

This also brings up another issue actually in defense of mentors, doesn't using the mentor roulette means you're up for almost every encounter in the game? Given there are around a hundred possible encounters it can be harder to remember and track all this and never make any mistakes compared to the guy who ONLY runs Expert & MSQ each day.

That said I'm not gonna rip any player for playing badly, mentor crown or not.

Fake news and crap from e-celebs and reddit / twitter mostly. Just watch Zepla's video about it how it works. She asks from her own sheep farm how they feel about mentors and then states it in the video as a fact.

I'm happy to help anyone in the game or even willing to just a chat with people. I don't get paid for it, I like to help. And I would say that almost all people have been grateful and happy.

There are also those fake sprouts who intentionally make drama in their trial accounts and get booted. And off they goto their safe spaces and streamers to cry that a bad mentor service in this game

I love mentor roulette. Something so satisfying about getting an arr ex of all sprouts, and going from chaos to clear in an hour. I’m a pretty hands-off mentor, I don’t open my mouth unless asked, lead by example, and bring up the rear. I don’t care how long a duty takes, not in it for the mount, but to help folks clear content.

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Originally Posted by Jin-

Fake news and crap from e-celebs and reddit / twitter mostly. Just watch Zepla's video about it how it works. She asks from her own sheep farm how they feel about mentors and then states it in the video as a fact.

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I feel myself losing braincells when I watch her videos tbh.

The mentor system is something I think could use a bit of retooling. Nearly every time I've used the mentor roulette I get harassed. To the point that I just stopped talking when it would pop or just stopped using it all together. Extremes usually pop up in these kinds of conversations as the place where problems occur and I think it's important to understand that unless someone personally ques for that extreme, it can only be filled by mentors. It puts a very high weight on the roulette it's very frustrating for a lot of reasons. One simply being that people often don't understand at all what they are queing for. I don't mind teaching, even an extreme on occasion, but if people refuse to learn or actually demand that I type out every mechanic for every extreme when I get in there; yeah it gets tiring.

I've seen people get mad at others for saying the mechanics, asking if people have questions, linking a guide, suggesting PF, saying nothing, or just leaving. It really feels like there is no way to just do the roulette without people flaming you.

just a personal experience thing, i don't rag on Mentors, but i have basically entirely negative experiences with them, been on 3 servers now, NN in 2 of them, not once was a question of mine actually answered by a mentor, at best it was by other sprouts, at worst, not at all,

instead they degraded to personalized global chats that kicked out people constantly who actually wanted things answered, and to be frank, if Square isn't willing to moderate and ensure their mentors (both crafting and combat) are up to their standards, the system itself should be scrapped and it's rewards distributed elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Keddera_StormMoon

But I am getting sick of being painted with a broad brush by some of you people who are butt-hurt that some randoms on the internet gave them a bad day.

I don't give a rip about some mount
I don't even wear my crown.

So kindly take your attitude about the few bad ones we have and shove it.

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That's all well and good, but just like the OP did with sprouts, people tend to paint an entire group of people with a broad brushstroke based off of former experiences with people in that group.

The biggest thing is that the most vocal Mentors tend to be pedantic and more interested in "showing off" their knowledge in my experience. A lot of Mentors seem to value answering first over answering in a way that new people would understand. "Where can I get more aetheryte tickets?" being answered with just "GC" is worthless to a new player and I'm amazed at how many Mentors consider that to be a good way of answering. Then, when asked "What is GC?" they just say "Grand Company."

Then there are the pedants that feel the need to correct people without taking into account context. "You don't really need to worry about X" being responded to with "Yes you do. When you do min ilvl synced Ultimates with 1 healer and 3 tanks you need to be able to do it." A sprout doesn't need to worry about Ultimate/Savage content right now or "Doing Heavensward beast tribes is an OK way to break up the monotony of roulettes and dungeon spam." being responded to with XP/hour math equations showing that it's the 6th best way of leveling alt jobs and shouldn't be done, ignoring the fact that grinding xp the most efficiently will wear down your mind.


But, there's also the meme in the community. Almost everyone picks up on the Mentor meme and whenever they have 1 bad experience with a mentor it cements the meme as truth.

I've been a mentor since 2016 and I never experienced any abuse until very recently. I think it's happened only 3 times, but it's probably because of the malicious youtube videos going around saying awful things about people who share their experience with new/returning players.

I used to have a negative perspective of the mentor system because they were always the ones being rude in dungeons when I was new, but I noticed this tended to be full-crown mentors rather than pve mentors so I chose to wear pve mentor.

I never joined the Novice Network for years because everyone said it was just full of trolling, but one day I joined it and I just saw mentors answering sprout/returner questions all day and helping them with dungeon queues. It completely changed my perspective of the mentor system.

In my opinion, experienced players in online games usually don't have much patience for new players because they know how to play efficiently and they want the people they play with to as well. They want to be in a dungeon for about 20 minutes not spending an hour sightseeing the dungeon. It just so happens that experienced players often become mentors, so it looks as if it's the mentor status that somehow causes this, but it's not, it's being an experienced player that causes this.

The two problems about mentor system are
1) Criteria are useless
2) Exclusive reward

Me having a job at max level doesn't mean I know how to play it.

Me spamming ruin over and over by doing ifrit as a scholar to fish for commendations doesn't mean i'm a commendable player.

Me spamming ifrit unsync 1000 times doesn't make me knowlegeable about pve.

Basically all 3 criteria to become mentor are terrible.


Now you add exclusive rewards that force people to do mentor roulette and when people are forced to do something they don't like, it always end badly.


And since a chad mentor, who is actually very good and willing to help, has the same crown as Billy the ifrit spammer, Chad mentor is outnumbered and outshined by all the Billy.

Kupo I just slam them with so much kindness they are forced to leave or join the kupotastic party <3 kupo

The postmodern human hates being criticized even if it's constructive.
The Mentor's main reason to exist is to help new players with basic gameplay mechanics.
Can you see the problem now?

Not like it matters, the game is becoming more and more simplified to the point I wonder why the mentor system exists. Why mentor in a game where anything remotely difficult is kneecapped into becoming a snoozefest.

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Originally Posted by Doc_Seraph

Kupo I just slam them with so much kindness they are forced to leave or join the kupotastic party <3 kupo

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Yo-- you're not really a moogle?!?! xD Nice to see your face.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

Being abusive and toxic to mentors is the national sport of Eorzea and the XIV community, this is something provable and observable, it happens much more outside of the game in chat communities like reddit or discord, because you cannot get punished for doing so.

What I noticed, however, is that the longer a person plays the game, the less they parttake in this sport, often times they themselves become mentors, and mostly have no problem with people displaying their mentor crown in duties or in public spaces.

You don't see them immediately point out that someone is a mentor when that someone makes a dumb mistake or a common error, possibly because the joke has become stale.

On the other hand, recently FFXIV had a huge surge of new players, and what I've noticed is that those new players, who first discover that being mean to mentors is socially accepted in the XIV community, begin to go far and beyond above what is acceptable to abuse mentors, sometimes even ingame, in party chat in duties, pointing out that someone has a crown, or sometimes, an ultimate legend title or an ultimate weapon, if the party fails or someone makes a mistake.

I can understand it because this is the fresh new thing they discovered and helps them feel part of the community of FFXIV since everyone else is doing it, but the question nags me at the back of my head: is this a problem of old players making, or is this something exclusive to the new breed of players this game is now attracting?

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Cause you all do weird things like demand pictures of feet to help people out in the novice chat.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Cause you all do weird things like demand pictures of feet to help people out in the novice chat.

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At least the feet fetishists stay in the PF. No one has to listen to them grumble in party chat about how "the mentor's feet are subpar" when we wipe.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

No because to think its comparable would mean you will now feel bad about bullying people online because they accepted a mentor crown as a symbol of willing to help people. All because some of those did not live up to the expectation. In my NN sprouts usually get their questions answered and occasionally land hands on help. Theres bad mentors too, but I would say thats not the majority.

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There is a fundamental difference in attacking someone over something they cant change or over something they can change. You can not change which part of the world you are born in, switching mentor crown on and off however can be done very easily. I am a bit shocked this difference is not obvious to everyone.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I don't bash mentors personally at all, but I certainly wouldn't want to be associated with them. You can thank the bad mentors for the perception new players have towards them. Even I've been on the receiving end of several "mentors" on my sprout alt. I think the system is redundant, and should ultimately be removed. At the very least the rewards for being a mentor, and maybe even the crown, need to be removed. It should be about helping new players. Rewards complicate things. You'll get people who only want to be a "mentor" for the crown next to their name, the chat channel (with kick powers), or the eventual mount, for example.

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Yeah, the rewards were a horrible idea, and the crown itself should also be changed. I have some friends who have absolutely no intention of helping anyone, but sport the crown because they like how it looks. Change the mentor tag to something mundane (no, not a watering can as people would also just wear that for the looks), remove rewards, and call it a day.

If SE wants to keep 'mentor roulette' and the achievement reward, just change it so that it's called something else, and unlink it from mentors. It is quite a slog, and the achievement is fine, but it attracts the wrong type of attitudes for a mentor feature.


Also, nice miqo. Been awhile for ya. lol ;)

Hmm. Have encountered as many of the bad mentors as we have regular old bad players. By bad I am meaning not playing their class very well at'all or dying with alarming frequency.

Would say if I see crown I expect them to play about as well as anyone else or as poorly as anyone else because mentor requirements are fricken stoopid.

Comms? People hand those out for many altruistic reasons such as;

"Ohhhh smexy cat girl with skimpy glam"
"Just being a cat girl"
"Saying something silly in the chats"
"Because it was a five stack and they cannot comm each other"
"Having on any skimpy glamour"
"Having on what they in that very moment deem good glamour"
"Actually performing well or being helpful"

Extreme clears/number of duties? Pfffffff you can undersize the extremes and gind out thousands of duties without learning anything.

If more looked up the requirements then begun treating them like regular players (because they are), perhaps these topics would appear with less frequency. Just.. do not be a jerk?

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Originally Posted by Saraide

There is a fundamental difference in attacking someone over something they cant change or over something they can change. You can not change which part of the world you are born in, switching mentor crown on and off however can be done very easily. I am a bit shocked this difference is not obvious to everyone.

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This doesn't hold up well because these people want to be mentors and wear that crown. And they don't deserve to be discriminated for it. This would be akin to discriminating women on what they wear. Yeah... They can change out of their clothes.... but that isn't correct. Also like tattoos in the work place shouldn't dictate whether you get hired or passed over for a job.

So I don't see a fundamental difference really, discrimination is discrimination. Whether by immutable or changeable preferences on your looks.

Bad people exist. You deal with them on a individual basis. You don't lump groups of people into a negative category because of a few bad actors.

From my experience after getting ignored by them only to see them fail mechanics most admit they ignored me because others have told them to never listen to mentors no matter what.

I feel bad for the mentors that actually want to help and wish there was a system for it.

Many mentors love to argue in NN, thats for sure. People see that.
The mentors that are in it for roulette only are often impatient in those roulettes. People see that too.

I try to assume that a mentor I see is the good type of mentor until proven otherwise

Because for many new players, their first exposure to the mentor system is either from the Novice Network or memes. Both of those places cast a negative shadow on mentorship.

That said, I think toxicity towards mentors is massively overstated. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've encountered it in-game, and have participated in the mentor system since Heavensward. If someone is encountering a lot of toxicity directed towards them, some introspection may be in order.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

This doesn't hold up well because these people want to be mentors and wear that crown. And they don't deserve to be discriminated for it. This would be akin to discriminating women on what they wear. Yeah... They can change out of their clothes.... but that isn't correct. Also like tattoos in the work place shouldn't dictate whether you get hired or passed over for a job.

So I don't see a fundamental difference really, discrimination is discrimination. Whether by immutable or changeable preferences on your looks.

Bad people exist. You deal with them on a individual basis. You don't lump groups of people into a negative category because of a few bad actors.

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I don't think this is a good example. Wearing any kind of clothes does not make you responsible of any certain knowledge. But if we want to go by clothes:
If you are in a Walmart and someone is wearing a typical store worker outfit with their name-tag and job title on it, you would expect them if you ask which isle you can find an item, they would be able to at least direct you there. The difference is I am not choosing to wear those clothes they come with the job.

But, for example if a person keeps bragging about being a doctor and then when there is a dying person on an airplane and they cannot give basic help, people would probably have a few things to say about that...

Woman wearing a cloth and getting judged to me is not comparable to Mentors being judged. Mentorship comes with a responsibility. This is the actual problem. That people think its just a tilte or a decor crown. It is not. It should be an idication that you are a player who has knowledge and can be relied on when it comes to the game...

Woman wearing a clothes and being judged is more similar if a cat girl wears the basic 2B thigh with hempen shirt and then people would assume they are ERP-ers and give them bad remarks for it, or dm and harass them for choosing to wear those.

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Originally Posted by Shuuli

I don't think this is a good example. Wearing any kind of clothes does not make you responsible of any certain knowledge. But if we want to go by clothes:
If you are in a Walmart and someone is wearing a typical store worker outfit with their name-tag and job title on it, you would expect them if you ask which isle you can find an item, they would be able to at least direct you there. The difference is I am not choosing to wear those clothes they come with the job.

But, for example if a person keeps bragging about being a doctor and then when there is a dying person on an airplane and they cannot give basic help, people would probably have a few things to say about that...

Woman wearing a cloth and getting judged to me is not comparable to Mentors being judged. Mentorship comes with a responsibility. This is the actual problem. That people think its just a tilte or a decor crown. It is not. It should be an idication that you are a player who has knowledge and can be relied on when it comes to the game...

Woman wearing a clothes and being judged is more similar if a cat girl wears the basic 2B thigh with hempen shirt and then people would assume they are ERP-ers and give them bad remarks for it, or dm and harass them for choosing to wear those.

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that's the thing right, we expect mentors to be trained professionals akin to doctors, but we are forgetting this is a videogame and that this is an extremely unreasonable standard to hold other people to.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

that's the thing right, we expect mentors to be trained professionals akin to doctors, but we are forgetting this is a videogame and that this is an extremely unreasonable standard to hold other people to.

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No it is not. You perhaps missed the part of a walmart employee.

You choose to turn on your crown. I even think there is a description when you talk to the guy who gives the mentor role on what is expected from a mentor.

If I choose to be a "dorito" for an extreme run. People expect me to know the mechs. If I fail. I apologize. If I pass, they thank me. They will not shittalk me unless I start shittalking them isntead of admitting to my mistakes. I won't leave a party cause they are bad, I will dorito until they know what to do.

Nobody says mentors need to be doctors. Just do not be an asshole that insta leaves a duty finder extreme trial because the sprouts are new and they do not know what to do. At least explain to them that they can do the content on unsync.

I have never seen a Mentor being treated "badly" without a reason.

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Originally Posted by Shuuli

No it is not. You perhaps missed the part of a walmart employee.

You choose to turn on your crown. I even think there is a description when you talk to the guy who gives the mentor role on what is expected from a mentor.

If I choose to be a "dorito" for an extreme run. People expect me to know the mechs. If I fail. I apologize. If I pass, they thank me. They will not shittalk me unless I start shittalking them isntead of admitting to my mistakes. I won't leave a party cause they are bad, I will dorito until they know what to do.

Nobody says mentors need to be doctors. Just do not be an asshole that insta leaves a duty finder extreme trial because the sprouts are new and they do not know what to do. At least explain to them that they can do the content on unsync.

I have never seen a Mentor being treated "badly" without a reason.

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huh your walmart employee example doesn't really work since people abuse low wage workers openly with or without reason just because they are low wage employees

giving advice on anything can get you reported too

i asked a tank to use their mitigations bc they wouldn't use any mitis except at the start of a long pull and not at the end, no reprisal and no arms length either. the healer was having a hard time dealing with an incompetent tank after 3 party wipes to mobs, so i threw in a suggestion and made sure my wording could not be interpreted as being cross or upset.
and i got told off- probably reported too.