About the new 24 Man Alliance Raid.

This raid was simply... glorious. Perhaps people being griefed at the last boss might not have had fun, but otherwise it's so great. Was absolutely oozing excitement in chat. Rhalgr stomped me good, though!

Nothing's ever going to beat the Nier raids for me in both theme and design, but gods the Myth raids alone rejuvenated my excitement for the patch content.

They're so well-tuned and the mechanics are interesting, they force you to pay attention at all times. Byregot's entire arena shifting around and Rhalgr's hand were steps up in arena design honestly, it's incredibly refreshing to see something besides square and circle arenas with zero elevation or shift to them.

I really missed some of the more unique and non-uniform level designs from back in Coils, and I hope they think to do this again in a similar fashion. Utilizing the very fighting area for mechanics (having to get yourself knocked onto Rhalgr's fingers, for instance) was incredibly fun!

I was genuinely impressed both mechanically and visually by all four bosses, and I cannot wait for the next installment! They absolutely knocked it out of the park for a first entry.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

100% The trust duties should be brain dead and easy. White noise. Relaxing, for the enjoyment of people that don't enjoy adrenaline

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No, they shouldn't be.

Seems like you want "quality" for raids exclusively while you throw everyone else under the bus. Pfft...

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Originally Posted by Broken_Wind

Alliance Raids are the one area of FFXIV where I see standard MMORPG toxicity on a somewhat regular basis
The problem isn't with content being too hard, its with people not being able to deal with wipes.
People generally lack the patience to explain and coach and instead lash out

This is so much less common in other areas of the game thankfully

But its a very tough thing to balance.
Hard content invites toxicity
Large group content invites toxicity
Hard alliance raids therefore really make this an issue

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Frankly i see that as an opportunity to add a few lines on my blacklist. It's better to spot toxic people without being their target as it would be on smaller scale content.

Then again it's kind of rare that i come across agressive or passive agressive people in this game, it does happen but it's rare.

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Originally Posted by Misplaced_Marbles

No, they shouldn't be.

Seems like you want "quality" for raids exclusively while you throw everyone else under the bus. Pfft...

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No I want challenging content for everyone. However there are various people who don't want that at all. If you look around the forums you'll find plenty that dont find mechanics or dying fun. So its more a compromise for people who want to enjoy the game visually rather than mechanically. You misconstrue my intentions.

While fun, and loved the non-square/circle platform during the second fight... This wasn't all that more difficult than the Nier raids. Groups were wiping on those on release as well.

Pretty simple mechanics that just requires you to pay some attention to the fights. Next week, groups should be rolling through these fights without much issue. And the only thing that'll wipe the raid is people trolling on the scale mechanic.

Very end of the raid they should pop a question like "2+6(2-4) = ? " and watch everybody wipe jk <3 kupo

Agreed.
The new alliance raid put some hope and faith in me that SE still has original content and beautiful creative design and even new mechanics to be discovered still.

Alliance raids should always be about XIV to always solidify and extend its lore from the overworld or the current expansion.
I am so so so so so glad that Nier is done and gone.

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

Pretty simple mechanics that just requires you to pay some attention to the fights. Next week, groups should be rolling through these fights without much issue. And the only thing that'll wipe the raid is people trolling on the scale mechanic.

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I think it's this sort of community attitude that killed the enjoyment of this Alliance for me.

I didn't find it pretty simple just paying some attention the fights. I got rolled over first time. I imagine people will be beating these easily in a week or two because of the non-existent enrage timers, the fact you can eat some mechanics and live and the fact there aren't a lot of main mechanics, so once you do learn the trick it's easy to survive.

But I'm honestly impressed people just "get" mechanics easily right away. I can't do that. I know it's on me and I dislike people who expect carries so I'll avoid the raid myself. Makes me wonder if there's something wrong with my brain though :p

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I think it's this sort of community attitude that killed the enjoyment of this Alliance for me.

I didn't find it pretty simple just paying some attention the fights. I got rolled over first time. I imagine people will be beating these easily in a week or two because of the non-existent enrage timers, the fact you can eat some mechanics and live and the fact there aren't a lot of main mechanics, so once you do learn the trick it's easy to survive.

But I'm honestly impressed people just "get" mechanics easily right away. I can't do that. I know it's on me and I dislike people who expect carries so I'll avoid the raid myself. Makes me wonder if there's something wrong with my brain though :p

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I wouldnt worry too much, most people die a few times progging this stuff blind. And if you die you die. Like, you may take more or less time than others to learn it but you shouldn't let the fear of failing it deprive you from getting in there and doing the content. The secret is less mechanical skill and simply confidence and acceptance that you wont always be the one carrying.

In fact my favorite raids are when everyones drunk late saturday and its a mess lol.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

There is an allergy to communicating within the broader community. I don't see it as much ever since I moved back to an EU server, as typically people do communicate here, but there are occasions where people rush in with a bunch of new sprouts and are surprised when they wipe. A lot of this content is manageable if you share strategies etc. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the level of difficulty of some of these fights in some MSQ trials, to suit the type of threats the WoL is dealing with. I do wish they'd find a way to offer an optional easy mode for normal content (particularly trials), e.g. via the trusts, and allow the DF versions to be better, but instead trying to make the instances trust-compatible seems to be resulting in the mechanics becoming even more diluted in the DF version... whatever the business rationale for it, it doesn't help with my immersion, especially when optional casual content like this showcases so much more creativity. I think simply insisting that because the MSQ is mandatory, all associated content has to be easy, is a lazy approach with all the tools available to a modern MMO.

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But if they make Trusts different, then people can't learn mechanics to prepare to tackle them in roulettes. And while there may be some people who do the Trust once for the story and that's it, I would guess there's a far larger amount who do the Trust to take things at their own pace and then run roulettes for the things they need. Not to mention the development time for something like that, which at least doubles the amount of work for everything they want to implement that has a Trust version, and could lead to us getting less content overall. It doesn't sound like the risk versus reward will be worth it.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

But if they make Trusts different, then people can't learn mechanics to prepare to tackle them in roulettes. And while there may be some people who do the Trust once for the story and that's it, I would guess there's a far larger amount who do the Trust to take things at their own pace and then run roulettes for the things they need. Not to mention the development time for something like that, which at least doubles the amount of work for everything they want to implement that has a Trust version, and could lead to us getting less content overall. It doesn't sound like the risk versus reward will be worth it.

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I think this has a simple solution and the implementation isnt hard. They should design the fight with full mechanics for the challenging multiplayer experience first. At relatively fast pace and then slow down the mechanics per minute and casting times for the trust edition. Therefore no drastic changes required. And clearly dodging things at a fast pace is more difficult than say.... Having a full 10 seconds before an AOE goes off.

Therefore, the duty can be both hard and easy just depending on the tempo given to the fight. No other adjustments necesarry.

I genuinely don't see any issues when it comes to telegraphs and understanding mechanics in the Alliance Raid, and I'm someone who would be the absolute dead last in the group to note down tells and fix my movement. It seemed like the right balance of punishing and giving you enough time to get it. On Byregot, after most people in my Alliance got baited by the straight-line AoE shift, we had a big laugh about it and learned that pattern for good. Mechanics repeat themselves so if you failed the first time you figure out why you failed, then the next time the mechanic will happen for you to try out your thought-up solution. I didn't find it as chaotic as the NieR series, where the tells seem obscure and everything is being flung at you at hyperspeed. Boxes of white and black colour? Might be for hiding from something... except, now you have a coloured spread marker on you and you just destroyed a row of them... etc.

I liked this new alliance raid, it wasn't a typical run like I've been used to dealing with.

The bosses kept you engaged.

Same I can say with the new Extreme raid to some extent.

The new Alliance Raid is a breath of fresh air after the nauseous Tower of Paradigm and disappointing Nier collab.
Overall, the visuals are amazing, the mechanics are engaging without being unforgiving, bosses aren't boring HP sponges, the music is top notch and the gear is really really good looking.
It's a success and I'm excited for the next raid to come.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I think this has a simple solution and the implementation isnt hard. They should design the fight with full mechanics for the challenging multiplayer experience first. At relatively fast pace and then slow down the mechanics per minute and casting times for the trust edition. Therefore no drastic changes required. And clearly dodging things at a fast pace is more difficult than say.... Having a full 10 seconds before an AOE goes off.

Therefore, the duty can be both hard and easy just depending on the tempo given to the fight. No other adjustments necessary.

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That seems right. Additionally, they also already have scalable difficulty for single player duties. I'm not sure why that system can't be implemented to include alliance raids and just queueing for a specific difficulty level (including, for that matter, scaling difficulty up.) There wouldn't need to be a trust edition for the alliance raid in that instance - if difficulty can be scaled for one person, I'm not sure why it can't be for 24.

One thing I will say is that I was pleasantly surprised when I realised we had an arena that wasnt a circle or square vs rhalgr. It was refreshing and good to see how they made use of it too in mechanics.
More asymmetrical arenas please!

Its also interesting to see that the Gods are NOT jerks from what we've seen so far which is a nice change of pace.

Music was top notch and the environs were beautiful as well. The voice acting too was good though it seemed a bit quiet to me. I'm actively considering taking "Pilgrimage" the field theme for use in my dnd sessions
The designs of the gods are excellent for the most part. I was expecting Byregot to look similar to Godbert though xp and naldthal's lightbulbs on their wings seem silly. I got nothing but praise for how Byregot reshapes his arena constantly and the environ changing along with Thal or Nald. Very beautiful and good to make use of it with mechanics.

For a player whose beloved Astrologian lost the cards and time magic, I really appreciate getting to see the heavens and how they compare to the cards. If only Byregot could fix them back into working order :P

Difficulty is fairly middling from what I can see. Lots of new mechanics and interesting ones, albeit simple. Boss hp seems decent, nothing too spongey like Engels or 9s nor as weak as Mateus or the first one in nier.
Overall, I think this is the best of the first 24 man raids since Rabanastre.

edit: I also found it funny just how many people in the chat were simping for Azeyma AND byregot. The same people.
My raid also only wiped once in the entire run on the balance. Everyone stopped moving and one person hopped between the two and unfortunately landed on the wrong side when the petrify hit.

Personally, the only mechanics that threw me off on the first occurrence were the knockback + orbs at Rhalgr (I thought the green arrow markers were bad, not a guide), and Nald'thal's take on Gawon's jumping mechanic (I didn't notice he had the knockback arrows above his head).

It's often a process of elimination where you can guess that the boss is going to be doing based on how much space is available to work with.

Though amusingly I didn't even realize I was doing Rhalgr's meteor mechanic "wrong" because if you go far for the punched meteor the resulting mess of spread AoEs can still miss you entirely or at least be survivable.

Did my first run today and basicly gave up on trying to figure out what to do after dying multiple times on each boss and went with "I'll just take the hit, no point in running" lol


Didn't like the music that much, but visually it was really nice.

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Originally Posted by Misplaced_Marbles

No, they shouldn't be.

Seems like you want "quality" for raids exclusively while you throw everyone else under the bus. Pfft...

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I think what the poster is getting at is being able to select an option to run those on an easy mode when doing trusts. That's certainly how I'd envision that working. Really, just anything so that the DF versions of the MSQ content aren't forced to cater to the lowest common denominator, and especially the trials, and can be a bit more ambitious, like the 24 man. Currently they're not well suited to the sort of threats that show up in them at the moment, IMO, and for me at least it's a bit jarring, and it's only going to get worse if they instead use the trusts to limit the design of these instances.

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

Still waiting for that promised difficulty.

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Honestly for me its difficult enough. If we didnt have some people in our run that knew what to do we would have wiped countless of times. I like it the way it is. People that have no clue are now not those that that will bring the party completely down. Just one group can keep the fight going, while the mechanics still remain harsh for newcomers.

About the raid: I agree this raid is great. Awesome music, great visuals and interesting bosses. Not sure though why SE spoiled every one of them in the trailer.

Still in this one, I look forward to learning more about this and what the end plot will be.

I'm not doing it because of the difficulty.

Not that I don't like difficulty, but more I don't like difficulty combined with random people.

There's a reason wow LFR is so brainless.

I thought it was great! A couple of wipes, but I'm looking forward to doing it again.

I liked it better then Nier. It felt like it was part of the world instead of kinda tacked on the way Nier was to me.

Raid aesthetics are great, encounter design is great. Byregot and Rhalgr are S-tier Alliance Raid bosses. Nald'thal is also really good. Only Azeyma is a bit weak. Also really curious to see where the story goes and I'm looking forward to seeing the designs for the other gods.

My current concern is that it feels like the boss HP is undertuned. Even day 1, once our group had the mechanics down their health was dropping really fast. It feels like they are tuned under the assumption that some portion of the raid will be dead at all times, so it's like their HP is set for 16 people rather than 24. This is bad because it means the raid will become trivial once everyone has had a chance to learn it, and since there is no ilvl syncing in alliance raids for some reason, gear upgrades in later patches are going to make the raid a total joke with tons of mechanic skipping.

I'd also like to see mechanics with group responsibility return to alliance raids at some point. I miss raid breaker bosses like Ozma and TG Cid, but I guess the game philosophy is different from back then and way more geared towards letting everyone through no matter what. I can't recall any mechanics in Aglaia that actually require all 3 alliances.

The only negative i have is the audo mixing.

I don't know what it is, but its almost impossible for me to hear what the bosses are saying.
I hear Thundergod Cid loud and clear, but i didnt even notice that they talk for a bit because i was busy ressing.

I did turn the voices up but it was still way to quiet. Had to turn them down again because the battlevoices from 23 people are very annoying.

I really like the raid otherwise, a lot.

But the mixing... please, i want to hear what they say, especially if one is a good indicator of an attack and you cant hear it...

I had such a blast with this 24 man. Not 100% sure how I feel about it over all yet, but it's definitely my favorite first leg of a 24man series, second to Rabanastre.


Can't wait to see where we go from here.

They really hit the mark with this raid. Music,visuals,boss,mechanics A+

It's horribly boring. Every gimmicks happens slowly, peacefully, each in turn ; and it has to be this way since the goal is to one-shot players (either directly or after vulnerability)

Also the balance gimmick is trash. Stop making fights that reset because of one small misstep from 1 player (especially when the misstep includes accepting a raise), same kind of bullshit as Elidibus QTE.

Ban one-shot for better fights and real difficulty (would also make healers "healers" again)

I have had such a blast running this raid! The fights are well tuned, the zone is beautiful, the gear is gorgeous! Not to mention, I like the anti-social NPC Deryk, and the story subject. Thank you to the Team who worked so hard on this.

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Originally Posted by PangTong

I'd also like to see mechanics with group responsibility return to alliance raids at some point. I miss raid breaker bosses like Ozma and TG Cid, but I guess the game philosophy is different from back then and way more geared towards letting everyone through no matter what. I can't recall any mechanics in Aglaia that actually require all 3 alliances.

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This is what I love the most about Alliance Raids: Mechanics that require the entire alliance to work together. I burst out laughing when I first saw the Nald'Thal scale mechanic knowing full well that this player base WILL mess this up... And I'm here for it.

I too would love to see more mechanics that require us to work together!

However, I also understand why the Dev's need to tread carefully around it. As someone who is almost always running 24mans when I play, I remember when I would join into Orbonne and 1/2 of the alliance would quit at the very start before the barrier went down. I'm one of those people who has a macro for each fight, who wants to work through with a tough group, finish with unfilled groups, etc... I have finished Orbonne with 2seconds left on the clock. I understand why the majority wouldn't want to commit to that kind of time sink. I completely understand why they needed to add Echo to Orbonne.

I trust the Dev team to find the right balance. LOVED it! Thanks again for the fun new raid!

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

Still waiting for that promised difficulty.

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I actually thought the difficulty for this alliance raid was appropriate and I think this should be the standard for normal difficulty content. But certain other boss fights in prior expansions (thordan, etc.) still need a buff.

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Originally Posted by OhNooo

Loved the Rhalgr fight. Can’t believe we actually got to fight on a platform that wasn’t a square or circle lol. They need to do more of these for sure.

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This was exactly what i said when i reached to that fight: "wow, not a square/circle platform???"
The fingers made the fight 10x better

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

I actually thought the difficulty for this alliance raid was appropriate and I think this should be the standard for normal difficulty content. But certain other boss fights in prior expansions (thordan, etc.) still need a buff.

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Big agree. This should the standard difficulty for all alliance raids content at the very least. I wish they went back and made them all present the same level of challenge so people would stop cheesing CT.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Big agree. This should the standard difficulty for all alliance raids content at the very least. I wish they went back and made them all present the same level of challenge so people would stop cheesing CT.

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LOTA used to be a fun raid and not easy at the time of release. I remember those days quite well.

I love the new raid personally. Very well done and the gear especially the tops are also something worth chasing for glam. Can't wait to see what comes next.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

11/10.

You guys should stick to original content. Hit a home run congratulations on the hard work! It shows.

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Also, dang is the track for the last fight of the raid amazing.

I didn't think it would be likely to top the Shadowbringers soundtrack for sheer "number of tracks I will happily listen to on repeat", but Endwalker managed it. From stuff like the quiet, melancholic-yet-hopeful Dynamis piano piece, to several amazing new arrangements of Answers (like Your Answer), to some great battle or rising tension themes (Heroes Forge Ahead being a particular new favorite -- the track used for the opening of the job actions trailer prior to the Endwalker release -- but I was also utterly blown away by With Hearts Aligned in the second half of the final MSQ normal-mode trial)... all just so good. And now In the Balance, which just makes me excited to see how many other new favorite tracks we're going to get over the course of the patch series.