[U]nstylish: Lack of Effort in Viera & Hrothgar Hairstyle Releases

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

But aren’t the japanese players coming over to our forums and making posts? I don’t see why that’s acceptable and the vice versa isn’t?

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Prolly because it's way easier to make understandable quotes in english than japanese, We're more likely to botch their language than them.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

But aren’t the japanese players coming over to our forums and making posts? I don’t see why that’s acceptable and the vice versa isn’t?

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That is not a Japanese, just a Chinese player with fluent Japanese
This is their typical method trying to make game company to make change, this is not Japanese style of opposing.

Saw a twitter thread from a modder pointing out that hrothgar are the only race besides hyur where the ears are actually attached to the head.

Which means they had to make whole new head models to have no ears with these hairs.

So lack of effort is probably the wrong term, there was effort. They literally went out of their way to look incompetent, they intentionally did this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FP0tn-kX...g&name=360x360

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FP0tn-gW...g&name=360x360

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Saw a twitter thread from a modder pointing out that hrothgar are the only race besides hyur where the ears are actually attached to the head.

Which means they had to make whole new head models to have no hairs with these hairs.

They literally went out of their way to look incompetent.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FP0tn-kX...g&name=360x360

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FP0tn-gW...g&name=360x360

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Even if that's the case, it's trivial to resolve. One can very easily just remove the ears and close the gaps left behind or better yet, not even bother closing the gaps because the hair would cover the holes in their head anyway and then just literally copy-paste the ears onto the hair models.

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Originally Posted by Denji

Even if that's the case, it's trivial to resolve. One can very easily just remove the ears and close the gaps left behind or better yet, not even bother closing the gaps because the hair would cover the holes in their head anyway and then just literally copy-paste the ears onto the hair models.

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Yes, that's what I'm saying.

They made a whole new head model without ears. When they could have just left the ears there, or added ears to the new model.

They intentionally chose not to do so even though it would have been less work, or in the new head model case, trivial to add.

Baffling and infuriating imo.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

It doesn't, especially in context-heavy languages like Japanese. Japanese is incredibly idiomatic, and the mere sentence structure you use, or the use of a certain word to express an idea as simple as "me and you" can come off as inappropriate in the wrong context.

But if nothing else works, might as well go there and hope they see it, right? ...except Square will know it's us and ignore it either way. If anything just from seeing our profiles before reading awkward grammar.

Alternatively, JP players aren't happy with us going to their forum because it could give off the wrong impression or drown their voices out.

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Which ironically would be an incentive for SE to pay more attention here to avoid that scenario, which should not be the case in the first place if they were paying proper attention to this side of the forum.

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

Hey you guys wanted these races. This is just the monkey paw closing one of its fingers.

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Mate, you're a Male Miqo'te. Your race only exists because players demanded it. Same for Female Roegadyn. If you're going to go for that argument, see if you're not the pot calling the kettle black. You're just lucky it didn't happen to you, that's all there is to it. It doesn't prevent people from being sympathetic or feeling empathy toward others.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Which ironically would be an incentive for SE to pay more attention here to avoid that scenario, which should not be the case in the first place if they were paying proper attention to this side of the forum.

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Assuming it's a JP player to begin with. According to Divinemights it could be a CN player. And I don't know how much they actually pay attention to the foreign forums past what they claim to.

But one thing is certain: regardless of how vocal people have been, the prevailing sentiment has been that these hairstyles are not okay. That should count for something.

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

Hey you guys wanted these races. This is just the monkey paw closing one of its fingers.

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More like a compromise that has no reason to be needed.

Also what was said above.

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

Hey you guys wanted these races. This is just the monkey paw closing one of its fingers.

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11 years ago this was us, mate. Be grateful the worst SE did to you was give you messed up claw hands.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

11 years ago this was us, mate. Be grateful the worst SE did to you was give you messed up claw hands.

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ffxiv players and forgetting that at any moment square can screw any one of us over
name a more iconic duo.

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

Hey you guys wanted these races. This is just the monkey paw closing one of its fingers.

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A ) Who asked.
B ) No, we didn't ask for Hrothgar. People asked for Viera, Yoshida wanted to put hrothgar in since 3.0.
C ) You literally exist because fans requested for your race. This could have been Male Miqo'te at any point. You saying this infact DOWNPLAYS all of the players who requested for Female Roegadyn and Male Miqo'te. Were you playing this game 11 years ago, you would have literally been in our position. Be grateful for what you have and experience Empathy. Go outside. Touch Grass.

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

Hey you guys wanted these races. This is just the monkey paw closing one of its fingers.

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wow, you must be new because Male Miqote could have VERY EASILY ended up in just as bad a position considering they were a race players demanded to have. Hrothgar players by contrast did not demand this race. Yoshi-P is the one who insisted on the race being made, the Players threw a hissy fit and had a tantrum over wanting Viera, to the point they harassed the devs and sent death threats.

If you are going to make a snide and rude remark, you really should make sure that you aren't using a race that is the result of players whining like cranky toddlers for.

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

Hey you guys wanted these races. This is just the monkey paw closing one of its fingers.

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Players demanded male Miqo'te. Players demanded Viera. Players demanded female roegadyn....Players did not demand hrothgar. Hrothgar has been something Yoshida himself wanted. Maybe not hrothgar specifically, but a more beast type race In general. Do us a favor and try to actually know what you're talking about before sitting down at your keyboard to type up something stupid. You won't look like a clown in the end if you do!

While I love getting to play as a Hrothgar, with the race design making me super happy and it fitting my character super well, it does make me sad that Hrothgar are consistently treated as less important than the other races in terms of customization support.

I’m not condoning mods, but can’t Square Enix at least hire the programmers who managed to get more hairstyles (without removed ears) and hats to work? I understand that their work also needs to be brought into a wider code build and carefully tested, but that effort seems more important than just giving up and making us feel more excluded.

Heck, the Miqo’te even get to have their ears show through Snow’s hat in one of the hairstyle options, so what’s the legitimately good excuse for Hrothgar not having that too?

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

So lack of effort is probably the wrong term, there was effort. They literally went out of their way to look incompetent, they intentionally did this.

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There isn’t a lack of effort altogether, but as those head models you shared display, effort is lacking in creating thoughtful, lasting solutions for issues players have been speaking up about for years.

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Originally Posted by MellowMink

While I love getting to play as a Hrothgar, with the race design making me super happy and it fitting my character super well, it does make me sad that Hrothgar are consistently treated as less important than the other races in terms of customization support.

I’m not condoning mods, but can’t Square Enix at least hire the programmers who managed to get more hairstyles (without removed ears) and hats to work? I understand that their work also needs to be brought into a wider code build and carefully tested, but that effort seems more important than just giving up and making us feel more excluded.

Heck, the Mi’qote even get to have their ears show through Snow’s hat in one of the hairstyle options, so what’s the legitimately good excuse for Hrothgar not having that too?

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considering how little effort it takes for people to break the TOS and modify the game to use alternative hairstyles, the fact that square's tried to claim before EW came out that they had no time to do this is absolutely absurd. they absolutely could've hired someone to do this ages ago and it'd be a job that would take a couple weeks at most.

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Originally Posted by Akimori

Players demanded male Miqo'te. Players demanded Viera. Players demanded female roegadyn....Players did not demand hrothgar. Hrothgar has been something Yoshida himself wanted. Maybe not hrothgar specifically, but a more beast type race In general. Do us a favor and try to actually know what you're talking about before sitting down at your keyboard to type up something stupid. You won't look like a clown in the end if you do!

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you know for a race that yoshida wanted to put in the game, i wonder why he doesn't play hrothgar. i wonder why that is

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Originally Posted by Karowolus

A ) Who asked.
B ) No, we didn't ask for Hrothgar. People asked for Viera, Yoshida wanted to put hrothgar in since 3.0.
C ) You literally exist because fans requested for your race. This could have been Male Miqo'te at any point. You saying this infact DOWNPLAYS all of the players who requested for Female Roegadyn and Male Miqo'te. Were you playing this game 11 years ago, you would have literally been in our position. Be grateful for what you have and experience Empathy. Go outside. Touch Grass.

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https://media4.giphy.com/media/QTAVE...pcdg16/200.gif

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Originally Posted by whitemoonflower

Hrothgar clearly took the brunt of this with the "hidden ears" and hairstyle choices. I wanted to compare the way Battle-ready Bobs for female Viera was revealed as well. When I first saw the printout, I wondered where the headband had gone just to realize it was clipped underneath the hair, small portions poking out on either side of each ear. It could've been placed in front of the ears. It would've been fine if they held off on releasing it until it was ready. But instead, it was printed out and presented like this…

https://i.imgur.com/8dMz8OQ.png

What feedback would they receive had they released it that way for Miqo'te?

As for removing the ears entirely and the hairstyles chosen for Hrothgar, I couldn't hold up those printouts with any degree of satisfaction. It's just…wrong—more of a slap in the face than any real improvement. Hrothgar having to Fantasia just to change their hairstyles is already bad enough, but…this?

https://i.imgur.com/IQAM7xI.png

At least Hrothgar get a properly placed headband (even though they had to sacrifice their ears for it). But the bigger problem: of all the hairstyles to release for Hrothgar, this was seen as a fitting choice? For a race often given the excuse, "Xyz is done to keep the race more bestial," this is about as "bestial" as a Loporrit space café or Namazu accounting firm.

https://i.imgur.com/oCLnxer.png

Lastly, I wanted to point out how No.2 Type B Goggles and basically all blindfold pieces clip horribly with this hairstyle on female Viera. Male Viera? No problem. (They're new and shiny.)

In conclusion, Viera and Hrothgar are both playable races. If hairstyles for these races are going to be managed (or mismanaged) like this, both races might as well be given access to everything: every hairstyle and every piece of headgear (where it applies). At least let us experience the options other races are entitled to. Race-specific hairstyles should be a feature built alongside other unlockable hairstyles, not as a replacement for them.

Thank you for reading. Please be safe and well.

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I am not sure but the last Live Letter was on 1 April ... maybe it was just a joke. Lets wait and see ...

I'd like to be direct and post Viera hairstyles I'd like to see in game.
Some of these will be very long hairstyles- but the inspiration remains ( I have zero issue with clipping )
I want unique Viera hairstyles- I love the beastial aspect of them
I love the Ear Diadem you see with some Viera depictions- I would want these to remain intact & optional with future Viera hairstyles
Some of these will be large pictures.

I want Viera to obtain the Mog Station hairstyles & if possible, the other reward/ event hairstyles but nothing else pre-existing. I hope Viera will have actual unique racial hairstyles in the future.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...y-fullview.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...raaaaasass.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...rahairEDIT.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen..._Archer_RW.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...an-d49hmd6.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...w-fullview.png

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

I'd like to be direct and post Viera hairstyles I'd like to see in game.
Some of these will be very long hairstyles- but the inspiration remains ( I have zero issue with clipping )
I want unique Viera hairstyles- I love the beastial aspect of them
I love the Ear Diadem you see with some Viera depictions- I would want these to remain intact & optional with future Viera hairstyles
Some of these will be large pictures.

I want Viera to obtain the Mog Station hairstyles & if possible, the other reward/ event hairstyles but nothing else pre-existing. I hope Viera will have actual unique racial hairstyles in the future.

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those would all be so beautiful.
but players are funny about any long or clipping hairs which is why we have a majority of short, basic looking hairs with slight variations. not to mention the uninspired contest hairs from 5 years ago caused players to lose faith in artists creativity.
but something like these for Viera would be awesome. Better than the 2b and the ugly ponytail they added that gives them a huge forehead.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

They made a whole new head model without ears. When they could have just left the ears there, or added ears to the new model.

They intentionally chose not to do so even though it would have been less work, or in the new head model case, trivial to add.

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That suggests to me that they couldn't just leave the ears there, for whatever reason. Otherwise why deliberately go to the effort of making it look worse rather than better?

i imagine the ear changes were to make it easier to make all of the existing hrothgar hairstyles fit/work better on all of the different shaped heads

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

I'd like to be direct and post Viera hairstyles I'd like to see in game.
Some of these will be very long hairstyles- but the inspiration remains ( I have zero issue with clipping )
I want unique Viera hairstyles- I love the beastial aspect of them
I love the Ear Diadem you see with some Viera depictions- I would want these to remain intact & optional with future Viera hairstyles
Some of these will be large pictures.

I want Viera to obtain the Mog Station hairstyles & if possible, the other reward/ event hairstyles but nothing else pre-existing. I hope Viera will have actual unique racial hairstyles in the future.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...y-fullview.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...raaaaasass.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...rahairEDIT.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen..._Archer_RW.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...an-d49hmd6.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...w-fullview.png

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+1 ^^
I love these! Especially the NPC with the 'twin tails' hair :)

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Originally Posted by Aneshda

I am not sure but the last Live Letter was on 1 April ... maybe it was just a joke. Lets wait and see ...

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Given this response, it's looking less and less like a joke unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That suggests to me that they couldn't just leave the ears there, for whatever reason. Otherwise why deliberately go to the effort of making it look worse rather than better?

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

i imagine the ear changes were to make it easier to make all of the existing hrothgar hairstyles fit/work better on all of the different shaped heads

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Yoshi-P addressed their reasoning, and a Discord member translated it. Hrothgar were never intended to have hairstyles beyond their own race-specific ones.

A happy update: the scaling issue with No.2 Type B Goggles when paired with Battle-ready Bobs on female Viera appears to have been resolved. I tried them on a few minutes ago and was pleasantly surprised by the lack of clipping. Let's hope this eventually extends to the other blindfold pieces (YoRHa Type-53 Headband of Striking for example). In the meantime, thank you, dev team.

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Originally Posted by whitemoonflower

Yoshi-P addressed their reasoning, and a Discord member translated it. Hrothgar were never intended to have hairstyles beyond their own race-specific ones.

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I think they need to stay away from the human styles and provide them more race specific options.

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...raaaaasass.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...rahairEDIT.jpg

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These would have made such nice hempen sets. Still bummed we didn't get a unique one.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I think they need to stay away from the human styles and provide them more race specific options.

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Hrothgar having more of their own unique hairstyle options would certainly be better than six with missing ears every few years.

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Originally Posted by whitemoonflower

Hrothgar having more of their own unique hairstyle options would certainly be better than six with missing ears every few years.

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Sad thing is they probably have another 6 planned for 6.2 but maybe with the uproar that is on hold now. I'm hoping to see another 6 for Viera and seriously hope they start to set time aside to give us some head gear options with some of the older gear and certainly with new gear.

My understanding from reading stuff on twitter is that Lyse's hair is coming and that will be useable on Viera. Hroths need loving but going human is the wrong way in my view.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Sad thing is they probably have another 6 planned for 6.2 but maybe with the uproar that is on hold now. I'm hoping to see another 6 for Viera and seriously hope they start to set time aside to give us some head gear options with some of the older gear and certainly with new gear.

My understanding from reading stuff on twitter is that Lyse's hair is coming and that will be useable on Viera. Hroths need loving but going human is the wrong way in my view.

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For Viera head gear, I’m hoping to see not only more pieces made compatible but also the current clipping issues on compatible pieces resolved. Not being able to try on some of the Aglaia head gear felt…so unnecessary. “Ah, this again…”

The more I see the direction Hrothgar are being taken, the more I’m inclined to agree with you. I thought it’d be better if unlockable hairstyles were available across all races alongside race-specific styles, but some look downright perplexing on Hrothgar.

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...rahairEDIT.jpg

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I really do love this one. I do hope they will add more.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

My understanding from reading stuff on twitter is that Lyse's hair is coming and that will be useable on Viera. Hroths need loving but going human is the wrong way in my view.

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Thankfully, the Viera are able to wear it. I saw a video on YouTube of them showing it off… I’m not a fan of Lyse’s outfit being a 1 piece though, I think that’s put me off it.

I agree though, Hrothgar’s hairstyle choices were so… random. They pretty much just handed down the hairstyles Viera got in 6.0, needless to say it doesn’t suit the beastly aesthetic at all.

At this stage, I hope SE look at endorsing mods or finding some other type of compromise. Production of hairstyles is too slow, and I don’t think it’s okay to make Hrothgar wait any longer than they have already.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

I agree though, Hrothgar’s hairstyle choices were so… random. They pretty much just handed down the hairstyles Viera got in 6.0, needless to say it doesn’t suit the beastly aesthetic at all.

At this stage, I hope SE look at endorsing mods or finding some other type of compromise. Production of hairstyles is too slow, and I don’t think it’s okay to make Hrothgar wait any longer than they have already.

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Exactly. There may be other issues to resolve, but letting this go on for too much longer only confirms that it was never much of a concern in the first place.