5th chest for only unique jobs/classes in party

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Originally Posted by Krausus

You are asking SE to make incentives to exclude classes/jobs from a party right now it is player choice your suggestion would open a whole new can of worms and would replace one problem with another problem. you are essentially asking SE to make player exclusion official. They should focus on making content equally hard for melee and ranged classes not finding ways to exclude people.

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exactly. people don't understand that being forced to pick certain jobs is more exclusive then party's wanting to stack jobs. Stacking jobs is the community eluding, being forced to have x,y,z is SE excluding. Exclusion is exclusion either way you look at it. Until SE learns to balance content and jobs its gonna happen.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

exactly. people don't understand that being forced to pick certain jobs is more exclusive then party's wanting to stack jobs. Stacking jobs is the community eluding, being forced to have x,y,z is SE excluding. Exclusion is exclusion either way you look at it. Until SE learns to balance content and jobs its gonna happen.

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And the thing is it actually isn't really unbalanced (just slightly unbalanced), people see someone beat it a certain way and they only do it that way its a pick up group problem which brings me back to "they only do it the easiest way possible because half the group sucks anyways" This happens in every game out there it isnt a FFXIV exclusive issue its a PUG issue. Any LS worth a damn doesn't have these problems.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

And the thing is it actually isn't really unbalanced (just slightly unbalanced), people see someone beat it a certain way and they only do it that way its a pick up group problem which brings me back to "they only do it the easiest way possible because half the group sucks anyways" This happens in every game out there it isnt a FFXIV exclusive issue its a PUG issue. Any LS worth a damn doesn't have these problems.

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the type of balance im talking about is were ranged DD often have set safe spot they can stand and pretty much not take any damage at all while close range DD are often getting destroyed by aoe and stuff. Now this can be considered all fine and dandy if the close range DD have the advantage of being capable of higher DPS, but the fact is is that most fights are designed in way that BLM are the optimal DD. They have high damage output, safe spots to stand and allow the whm to focus on tank only.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

The only reason people stack BLMs is because it takes skill to fail as BLM.

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This is why ranged DD is such a issue because they are allowed to sit in a ultra safe zone and be glass cannons with no downside due to one tank keeping hate from a stack of blackmages and bards.

It's obvious that it's harder to fix than it appears on the surface, I trust SE has plans to look at it eventually but I'm not sure what the optimal solution is.

I also blame the community because it's grown into a bunch of "Path of least resistance" nancy boys.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

the type of balance im talking about is were ranged DD often have set safe spot they can stand and pretty much not take any damage at all while close range DD are often getting destroyed by aoe and stuff. Now this can be considered all fine and dandy if the close range DD have the advantage of being capable of higher DPS, but the fact is is that most fights are designed in way that BLM are the optimal DD. They have high damage output, safe spots to stand and allow the whm to focus on tank only.

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And I totally agree SE needs to focus on making fights just as dangerous for ranged as it does melee.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

And I totally agree SE needs to focus on making fights just as dangerous for ranged as it does melee.

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I second that, Garuda was a good start imo to addressing this because most of her moves are avoidable by everyone, and things like Plumes, tornadoes, and very long ranged AoE make it hard for even long ranged fighters to escape damage unscathed if they are in the line of fire. There definitely needs to be more content that can equally punish the long ranged attackers as much as the close ones.

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Originally Posted by Mikita

Would many players be happy if SE made new dungeons and primal fights only drop the 5th chest if there are no job/class duplicates in the party, and no job/class changes allowed mid-way through?

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I had a very similar idea. Reward players (higher drop-rate?) when all 7 classes/jobs are used with no switching in-between. If you go the "no duplicates" route then you're forcing an 8th person to play on a class.

Class stacking isn't a problem, it is strategy. We just need different dungeons with different strategies.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

And I totally agree SE needs to focus on making fights just as dangerous for ranged as it does melee.

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Agreed, if both types were as efficient. Or being safer (ranged) should come at the expense of lower efficiency. Right now, ranged are, in most of cases, safer and more efficient.

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Originally Posted by UmJammerSully

I had a very similar idea. Reward players (higher drop-rate?) when all 7 classes/jobs are used with no switching in-between. If you go the "no duplicates" route then you're forcing an 8th person to play on a class.

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This is a good point. But it should not be much; in the end it should come down to equivalent drop rates per hour.

I mean, right now you are "penalized" if you diversify pt set up because you end up doing less runs per hour with equivalent drop rate. Balanced properly, a "non-duplicate" run could grant a 20% drop rate bonus if it were estimated that a "non-duplicate" run takes about 20% longer than an optimal run. Same amount of drop in the end but favors different styles.

Eventually people may even find some very efficient play styles that would minimize the time difference needed to complete a run with traditional vs non-duplicate set ups, which would then indeed grant a slight bonus to non-duplicate set-ups, but nothing game breaking.

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Originally Posted by UmJammerSully

I had a very similar idea. Reward players (higher drop-rate?) when all 7 classes/jobs are used with no switching in-between. If you go the "no duplicates" route then you're forcing an 8th person to play on a class.

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so you wouldn't have a problem forcing party's to only take one of each job but you do have a problem forcing someone to go as a class?

At first I was in favor of your idea, and then it slowly dawned on me:

I can't have two white mages?

Thus I do not agree. One white mage, a paladin with Divine Veil, and other random fucks stacking cure is not enough to make me feel safe in a dungeon. I much prefer to have one white mage to cover the tank, and another to watch the rest of the party.

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Originally Posted by Vinta

At first I was in favor of your idea, and then it slowly dawned on me:

I can't have two white mages?

Thus I do not agree. One white mage, a paladin with Divine Veil, and other random fucks stacking cure is not enough to make me feel safe in a dungeon. I much prefer to have one white mage to cover the tank, and another to watch the rest of the party.

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Could just bring a Conj as a second healer, sure you wont have both spamming Regen or Esuna, but I dont think the Conj would necessarily need them to do it's job.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

Could just bring a Conj as a second healer, sure you wont have both spamming Regen or Esuna, but I dont think the Conj would necessarily need them to do it's job.

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inventory is already a nightmare lol I would hate to have to carry AF and class gear. There are just to many negative variables to make it a good idea. No offense to the OP I think his/her heart is in the right place.

Having this as a chest condition is just silly. The only reason that you want everyone on a different job/class is for the chest? I would rather have an instance that actually intelligently requires us to have several different types of jobs, so that there's a real reason to have all 7 jobs and a class.