Why was my thread about healer dps deleted?

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

A Tank not popping mitigation or a DPS not AoEing/using their support abilities are the equivalent of a Healer not DPSing.
A Tank doesn't need to pop mitigation to Tank
DPS don't have to AoE or use their Battle Litany, Standard Step, etc. in order to do DPS.
A healer doesn't have to DPS.

They're all equally terrible.

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Not really. A tank not using mitigation, or a dps not using dps cooldowns is not the same as a healer not dpsing, it's the same as a healer not using mitigation techniques on the party or using healer cooldowns. i. e. not performing their job-specific abilities.

It has nothing to do with dps.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Not really. A tank not using mitigation, or a dps not using dps cooldowns is not the same as a healer not dpsing, it's the same as a healer not using mitigation techniques on the party or using healer cooldowns. i. e. not performing their job-specific abilities.

It has nothing to do with dps.

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A DPS not using their AoE skills is the same though because you're ignoring your DPS options in both cases.
The point is that all these factors slow down a run considerably because you put more strain on other roles.
Doesn't matter if its a dungeon run or an ultimate fight, if you are ignoring parts of your toolkit to any capacity, you're wasting other people's time and effort for selfish reasons and you're a terrible player as a result.

You also never answered whether Macrocosmos was a Heal or DPS skill.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

.When you start a dps class, you are expected to dps. When you start a tank class, you are expected to tank. When you start a heal class, you are expected to dps and heal.

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Simply wrong and you should know that if you have done a single piece of content that is harder than a dungeon.

Dps are also expected to use their mitigation. Addle. Feint. Troubadour/tactician/shield samba.

Tanks are expected to dps. Why otherwise would their dps kits be so much more involved with multiple damage gcds, ogcds and combos?

Healers don't get a free pass in dps just because they have to heal, especially when this game doesn't deal anywhere near enough damage to ever justify only healing at any point.

Your arguments always stay the same and the answer to them always stays the same, stop trying to justify how bad and lazy you personally are by using the most extreme examples of disability and/or age.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Charming.

When you start a dps class, you expect to dps. When you start a tank class, you expect to tank. When you start a healer class, you expect to heal.

When you start a dps class, you are expected to dps. When you start a tank class, you are expected to tank. When you start a heal class, you are expected to dps and heal.

See the core flaw there? Healers are the only class that is expected to excel in two areas. What a strange and unexpected burden to place on a player.


Performing well as a tank means staying alive, cycling through CDs and controlling the pace of the group. Performing well as dps means constant output of dps while avoiding standing in poo. Performing well as a healer means healing your party through unavoidable damage and keeping your tank alive against bosses. But for healers that alone seems to not be good enough.

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Are you trolling, or are you being serious? A tank is expected to maintain aggro, don't take avoidable damage, mitigate unavoidable damage, and do DPS. Shadowbringers may have made it easier for tanks to maintain aggro, but they still have to do DPS to keep aggro, or it'll get ripped off by a good DPS player and then they're the ones taking more damage - which the healer then have to heal because of the tank's mistake.

If you have now noticed, all roles have the function to: stay alive and do DPS.

DPS tries to not take avoidable damage from mechanics and has the greatest focus on DPS due to having the largest number of DPS skills.

Tanks tries to not take avoidable damage from mechanics, mitigate incoming damage, and do good DPS to ensure they can maintain aggro and not have it stolen by good DPS players doing 10x their total damage.

Healers tries to not take avoidable damage from mechanics, heal avoidable damage & mistakes, and contribute to DPS when possible. The only difference between tank and healer DPS is that the amount of healer DPS is heavily contingent on both the DPS and the tank playing well (dodging avoidable AoEs reduce the number of heals cast and future casts due to not having a vulnerability up debuff on them, mitigating tankbusters and large amounts of damage reduces the number of heals cast, defeating enemies quickly to reduce the amount of time spent in combat / to transition to the next part of the fight - which means more time for healing abilities to come off cooldown, thus reducing the number of GCD heals being cast again). This is because healers have their DPS and their healing tied to the GCD. Tanks do not - none of their mitigation abilities share a GCD with their DPS skills.

So in worst case, if tank is not mitigating, can't keep aggro, and DPS is doing subpar damage while eating every avoidable mechanic possible? Yes, the healer's goanna end up only healing because they have to carry the whole party's weight on their backs using GCD heals to cover what they can't heal using abilities. Most likely though, they'll end up running out of mana or dying first because the tank can't keep aggro and the healer generated more aggro from healing. If the tank isn't mitigating and the DPS is standing in AoEs nonstop and doing big pulls, but they can keep aggro by doing DPS? Then, healer's just carrying them by constantly healing those mistakes. No one's goanna complain on the healer for not DPSing in this situation.

In both of those particular cases though? The healer's already getting an abnormal burden because of bad party members. These are very big edge cases where the healers can't do anything else because their GCDs are being eaten up healing instead of DPSing. With a good or decent party where tanks do mitigate and DPS does their AoE rotation & Single Target Rotation while avoiding orange aoes, the healer will get a fair amount of downtime, so the healing burden is significantly reduced. This is especially apparent with better gear since gear works fourfold - increasing HP/DEF/DMG on every role and also increasing healing output for healers as well. In fights where players have already done, it's very normal for everyone to avoid easily predictable mechanics, which also contribute to the lack of healing required. Thus, healers are left with a huge amount of downtime in which they don't need to heal - and that time is then used for DPS. This has been true for every content in each expansion.

For Savage, that's even simpler because damage comes out in very spaced out intervals (when the boss starts casting a skill as most autoattacks tickle). Even if you healed with two or three GCDs, you still have the remaining 3/4 of the time to do DPS or sit there and look pretty.

Finally,

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Healers are also expected to maintain nearly as constant dps as a dps class, or face scorn and accusations of laziness, as though providing dps as continuously as possible were not an option at all, but a certain requirement.

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You do realize again that if people aren't making mistakes and a healer is properly following the ABC - Always be Casting - that they can reach roughly 80% of what a DPS's potential output can reach? This is what the -possible- DPS' potential can reach. In a casual group where the DPS isn't playing 100% efficiently and just using their 1-2-3 combo, you can bet that a non-optimal healer adding some DPSing when they aren't doing anything can reach around the same level or near the same level as a DPS as long as they were following the basic guidelines that all casters follow. They can easily exceed them as well if the DPS don't know their proper DPS rotation especially since healers don't have a rotation. It's just a one-button spam and a DoT every 30 seconds.

And finally, the tank doesn't control the pace of the group. The pace of the group is dictated by the party. Even if the tank wanted a big pull, if healers can't keep up with damage because tank gear is subpar or mitigates poorly, if the party's overall DPS is low, or if healers can't manage their MP properly... those are all things that would stop a big pull from happening. Assuming a tank is the only person controlling the pace of the group is a huge erroneous assumption. Likewise, the party may want to pull more because a tank is single pulling, thus letting the healer basically do nothing but cast their basic attack skill since their oGCDs can keep up with whatever excess damage the tank takes. The tank is definitely given respect to pull first, but in no ways is the tank the one who controls the pace. Controlling the pace is a group effort. If the tank by any reason decides to not tank because they don't like how the party decide the pull.... that's a direct violation of the rules right there for not doing your role and griefing so... quick report.

I never said healers shouldn't dps, only that deciding that a healer who doesn't dps is a terrible player without caring about their reasons for not dpsing is

a terrible player.

And no, I don't care about your question. I don't see how it's relevant to the subject of how wrong stigmatizing a healer who focuses purely on healing is.

It really begs the question: who is the truly selfish player, the one who dictates how others should play for their own desire for speed or the player who is happy to perform their role exclusively? I'd be willing to accept that both can be described as a bit selfish, but even that seems to be too painful a truth for many.

Let healers play the way they like. Don't nerd rage.

P. S. The moment you start inventing "facts" about my personality or play style (lazy, does no content, trolling) I indefinitely consider you to have fully yielded to my argument due to an inability to counter it in any factually based way and I can assuredly ignore all your posts. The equivalent of you shouting, "no u!"

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

I never said healers shouldn't dps, only that deciding that a healer who doesn't dps is a terrible player without caring about their reasons for not dpsing is

a terrible player.

And no, I don't care about your question. I don't see how it's relevant to the subject of how wrong stigmatizing a healer who focuses purely on healing is.

It really begs the question: who is the truly selfish player, the one who dictates how others should play for their own desire for speed or the player who is happy to perform their role exclusively?

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There's... a very BIG divide between a healer who doesn't DPS and a healer who can't find time to DPS. One implies they're trying to use their full kit, the other doesn't.
Whatever their reason is, they should also be aware this is a co-op game and that is something they should be mindful of. If this was a single player game, then more power to them.

But it isn't.

It doesn't matter what I think of them at that point, because it still objectively makes them a bad player for not using their full kit.

It's like saying you wanted to play GNB but never use your powder gauge and just using your regular 1-2-3 combo. It's like saying you're a NIN but you don't want to use mudras, only weaponskills.
It doesn't matter what I think of them... because at that point they're still underutilizing their toolkit. Due to the encounter design of this game and the existence of enrage timers, it can only be looked as 'bad'.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

I never said healers shouldn't dps, only that deciding that a healer who doesn't dps is a terrible player without caring about their reasons for not dpsing is

a terrible player.

And no, I don't care about your question. I don't see how it's relevant to the subject of how wrong stigmatizing a healer who focuses purely on healing is.

It really begs the question: who is the truly selfish player, the one who dictates how others should play for their own desire for speed or the player who is happy to perform their role exclusively? I'd be willing to accept that both can be described as a bit selfish, but even that seems to be too painful a truth for many.

Let healers play the way they like. Don't nerd rage.

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We do, in-game. You're still bad if you don't. Math is math. Mathematically you can get away with it to such a degree you have no excuse not to try. And if you try during the period where you're most free and able to learn (ARR-HW, levelling content in SB onwards) it is easy to learn how to heal and DPS efficiently without getting the party killed. But expecting to be catered to for not doing so is frankly killing the role as a whole. You can see it in the shift of roulette demands away from tanks and DPS at peak time and in the quality of the healers you get in casual content the later it gets in every patch, and in how that design affects the players who do get it.

I've sat down and taught Sylphies to DPS before. It was actually easier in ARR where all I had to ask them was to maintain DoTs until they were comfortable with full-on spam. And that was with far less oGCD tools than what we had now plus the clunk of Cleric Stance management and more healing demands thanks to more passive tank damage.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

I never said healers shouldn't dps, only that deciding that a healer who doesn't dps is a terrible player without caring about their reasons for not dpsing is

a terrible player.

And no, I don't care about your question. I don't see how it's relevant to the subject of how wrong stigmatizing a healer who focuses purely on healing is.

It really begs the question: who is the truly selfish player, the one who dictates how others should play for their own desire for speed or the player who is happy to perform their role exclusively? I'd be willing to accept that both can be described as a bit selfish, but even that seems to be too painful a truth for many.

Let healers play the way they like. Don't nerd rage.

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What possible reason do you have for NOT contributing to the group?
If you have to carry the group because they suck, fine.
If you're physically unable to due to disability or whatever, fine.

Doing so because "It's not how I want to play" is the very definition of selfish because you only care about yourself in that instance and to hell with your teammates.

You not answering the question is not because you fail to see its relevance but because the skill is contrary to your entire argument and you can't stand it.

I daresay the amount of people choosing not to dps because they just don't feel like it, for whatever reason, is likely so small it's really very dumb to even mention them. Meanwhile I'm betting the great many other reasons that vindictive players unhesitantly label as being part of aforementioned group suffer the most from baseless ridicule.

Again (and again and again) I say nothing against dpsing as a healer (yes, I do it myself if and when it is safe and convenient) only against the brainless labeling of healers who, for their own reason, choose to, or are restricted to, focusing the majority of their attention on healing.

I am also against the desire of some outspoken players for even greater focus of dps abilities and requirements for healers when there are already several options available for them and, obviously, no shortage of players utilizing them.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

I am also against the desire of some outspoken players for even greater focus of dps abilities and requirements for healers when there are already several options available for them and, obviously, no shortage of players utilizing them.

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This right here is why my question on Macrocosmos is important.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

It really begs the question: who is the truly selfish player, the one who dictates how others should play for their own desire for speed or the player who is happy to perform their role exclusively? I'd be willing to accept that both can be described as a bit selfish, but even that seems to be too painful a truth for many.

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We already know the answer to this.

How is it selfish to expect other players who are in your party make a conscious effort to play the game? It's incredibly disrespectful and rude to intentionally underperform because you want to play a thou-shalt-not-harm RP. If that's you're goal, then start up a premade group of people who will tolerate that kind of behavior, but it's arrogant to expect respect when you are blatantly wasting other people's time to pretend you're playing a different game.

Want to play a frost mage? Go play Diablo III
Want to play a healing paladin? Go play WoW
Want to play a healer that only heals? Go play Everquest

There's a difference between trying and perfection, of course. What real people are asking is that you make a conscious effort to contribute to the fight and not stand there with your hand in your pants waiting for the next raidwide to be used in 45 seconds. In casual content, no one cares if you're not running a perfectly optimized healer, they just want you to not intentionally waste their time, which is exactly what intentionally not DPSing when you otherwise could is doing.

You can't just not play the game and expect players to respect your "choice" for the same reason I can't just not attack at all and constantly jump on the enemy's hit box because I want to roleplay as Mario and expect the same.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

I daresay the amount of people choosing not to dps because they just don't want to, for whatever reason, is likely so small it's really very dumb to even mention them.

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This quote is a keeper

And lol at trying to position yourself as some hero standing against the 'outspoken players' trying to push for even more focus on DPS abilities.

Do you not see us asking for buffs?

Do you not see us asking for debuffs?

Do you not see us asking for more healing requirements?

No you don't. Because it doesn't suit your horrible little agenda.

Stop lying.

Thanks.

Oh and also, the real reason you won't answer Silver's question is because you simply don't know. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

This right here is why my question on Macrocosmos is important.

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If you're referring to cobbling together techniques in a way not native to the game's basic layout, then no, it's not important. You should address that one to SE's customer support or even ideas for lifestyle upgrades, not to me. Expecting players to create macros just to functionly play a class according to your standards is silly.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

If you're referring to cobbling together techniques in a way not native to the game basic layout, then no, it's not important. You should address that one to SE's customer support or even ideas for lifestyle upgrades, not to me. Expecting players to create macros just to functionly play a class according to your standards is silly.

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They are referring to Astrolgian's new capstone spell named "Macrocosmos"

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

This quote is a keeper

And lol at trying to position yourself as some hero standing against the 'outspoken players' trying to push for even more focus on DPS abilities.

Do you not see us asking for buffs?

Do you not see us asking for debuffs?

Do you not see us asking for more healing requirements?

No you don't. Because it doesn't suit your horrible little agenda.

Stop lying.

Thanks.

Oh and also, the real reason you won't answer Silver's question is because you simply don't know. :rolleyes:

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You have a terrible temper and should probably avoid the forums for your own mental health. You'll spend the whole day with high blood pressure.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

They are referring to Astrolgian's new capstone spell named "Macrocosmos"

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Then I don't know. I never cared for astro as much as whm.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Then I don't know. I never cared for astro as much as whm.

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Macrocosmos
Range: 0 yalms Radius: 20 yalms
Cast time: 1.5 seconds Recast time: 120 seconds
MP Cost: 600

Deals unaspected damage to all nearby enemies with a potency of 250 for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.
Additional Effect: Grants Macrocosmos to self and all nearby party members
Duration: 15 seconds
Action changes to Microcosmos upon execution.
For the effect's duration, 50% of damage taken is compiled.
Restores HP equal to compiled damage when the effect expires or upon execution of Microcosmos.
Amount restored cannot exceed the target's maximum HP.

Silver Strider wanted to know if you viewed this as a DPS spell or a healing spell (Note that 250 Potency is the same potency as the new Malefic spell as of the Media Tour. Numbers are subject to change).

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Macrocosmos
Range: 0 yalms Radius: 20 yalms
Cast time: 1.5 seconds Recast time: 120 seconds
MP Cost: 600

Deals unaspected damage to all nearby enemies with a potency of 250 for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.
Additional Effect: Grants Macrocosmos to self and all nearby party members
Duration: 15 seconds
Action changes to Microcosmos upon execution.
For the effect's duration, 50% of damage taken is compiled.
Restores HP equal to compiled damage when the effect expires or upon execution of Microcosmos.
Amount restored cannot exceed the target's maximum HP.

Silver Strider wanted to know if you viewed this as a DPS spell or a healing spell (Note that 250 Potency is the same potency as the new Malefic spell as of the Media Tour. Numbers are subject to change).

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Same as assize, essentially. I've already noted that for all that many claim healers are "one button dps" this is far from the case. And if a player chooses not to use it, it is a waste, but as so many have pointed out, healers are hardly starved for healing abilities. Personally, I would use it, but this is about whether or not it would be good for less skilled players (and not the "just don't want to" players.)

I note the key appeal of this spell is that it does not require targeting, merely a click within proximity, and that would appeal to players who struggle with stress or infirmity.

In short, I'd call it a healing spell, at least in the eyes of those who look first towards healing. Sorry for the confusion about the nature of the spell. I'm not good with spell names.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Same as assize, essentially. I've already noted that for all that many claim healers are "one button dps" this is far from the case. And if a player chooses not to use it, it is a waste, but as so many have pointed out, healers are hardly starved for healing abilities. Personally, I would use it, but this is about whether or not it would be good for less skilled players (and not the "just don't want to" players)

I note the key appeal of this spell is that it does not require targeting, merely a click within proximity, and that would appeal to players who struggle with stress or infirmity.

In short, I'd call it a healing spell. Sorry for the confusion about the nature of the spell. I'm not good with spell names.

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The difference is that Assize is an oGCD ability and Macrocosmos is on the GCD.
The chief complaint from healers is that we spend 70%+ of our time using our GCD to DPS, so why can't we have GCD skills like Macrocosmos that we can sprinkle in occasionally so that we don't have that problem?

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

The difference is that Assize is an oGCD ability and Macrocosmos is on the GCD.
The chief complaint from healers is that we spend 70%+ of our time using our GCD to DPS, so why can't we have GCD skills like Macrocosmos that we can sprinkle in occasionally so that we don't have that problem?

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Why not indeed, though with a 2 minute cool down that's some very spaced out sprinkles.

Again, no problem with dps, and if SE felt the need for an ability that bears a strong resemblance to other already existing abilities, that's common with all classes and doesn't warrant much thought. Same as every tank getting a gap closer and other such equalizing additions.

It's calls for whole new concepts that fortify the emphasis of dps above healing that burns my bean, such as healer dps rotations.

A party can get by with the healer just healing in leveling dungeons. It'll cost a couple of minutes off the run, no big deal. Yes it'll be a pretty bad healer, but they exist and help reduce queue times. and the world doesn't end. Same as a group survives with a dps that does very low dps, or the tank do low dps. I doubt any leveling dungeon group has seen any drama from that, and if so it's easy to report as we're in ACT land.

When someone insists the same goes for higher end content, and even advocates that as the norm, it's a different story. Expect healers to protest an extremly monotonous experience.

Healing wise, I think they've designed themselves into a corner. You want healers to be able to contribute to the group in a way that continuously rewards further improved player skill. It's not intuitive how that can be done for the healing itself, with a design based on predictable intermittent damage, gameplay heavy on cooldowns, and generally small mana pools with high regen. So healers don't contribute to clear times except by their ability to dps. And for reasons unknown, that dps is designed to be incredibly brainlessly monotonous. That, at least, could be fixed.

I wonder how it would be if the healing was gcd and the dps was weaving in ogcd more or less optimally depending on skill and knowledge, but suspect that wouldn't help much with the mana the way it is.

Well reasoned.

I do wish higher difficulties had more rot techniques and less "learn the dance" strategy.

More room for error and less dodge dodge dodge would likely make savage raiding more appealing to casual players while giving healers more to do, and probably wouldn't even change the difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Why not indeed, though with a 2 minute cool down that's some very spaced out sprinkles.

Again, no problem with dps, and if SE felt the need for an ability that bears a strong resemblance to other already existing abilities, that's common with all classes and doesn't warrant much thought. Same as every tank getting a gap closer and other such equalizing additions.

It's calls for whole new concepts that fortify the emphasis of dps above healing that burns my bean, such as healer dps rotations.

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Yeah it would be spaced out but it still helps to space out the monotony of Nuke spam.
Here's my stance on Healer DPS.
I want 1 Single Target Nuke/DoT and 1 AoE Nuke/DoT for a total of 4 DPS spells. Nothing crazy there, just consistency in terms of design because a ST and AoE nuke but only a ST DoT feels off.

Next, I want to introduce a few GCD skills that function on a similar design to Macrocosmos.
My Ideas
Erupting Spring
Conjure a Geyser of water to spring from the earth that deals 300 water damage for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.
Addition Effect: Creates a Healing Spring at location, granting healing over time to self and any party member that enters
Duration: 18 seconds
Cure potency: 100
CD: 120s.
Essentially, an offensive version of Asylum for WHM that fits thematically with the job and still functions as a healing ability.

Aeolus
Surround the enemy in a swirl of lights that deal unaspected damage with a potency of 50 to target and all nearby enemies. (Effect does not stack with Aero 3)
Duration: 24 seconds
Additional Effect: Grants Rejuvenating Breeze to self and neary allies
Rejuvenating Breeze Effect:Grants Healing over Time effect
Duration: 12 seconds
Cure Potency: 150
CD: 90 seconds

Aero 3 that throws Regen on everyone. Again, thematically appropriate and since it doesn't stack with Aero 3, it can't be used as a DPS skill and would only be used for Healing purposes.

Things like this would help break up monotonously spamming the same few skills and would satisfy both sides of the argument between DPS skills and Healers that want to heal.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Same as assize, essentially. I've already noted that for all that many claim healers are "one button dps" this is far from the case.

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Macrocosmos isn't a DPS spell in the sense that it doesn't provide extra DPS. Using it for DPSing is objectively a waste in most situations except maybe in a dungeon. It's a 2 minute healing cooldown that has the same cast time and potency than Fall Malefic, AST basic Nuke. It is AoE though, so in dungeon pulls it provides a bit of extra DPS (About 125 potency more than Gravity on the main target so it's not a huge difference.)

It can't really qualify towards Healer DPS arsenal.

Same with Sage's Pneuma. Those aren't really DPS buttons, just heals with a some damage, unlike Assize. Assize being an OGCD is a DPS gain. With a potency of 400 it would also be a DPS gain being a GCD, so it is indeed part of WHM's offensive kit.

What I find strange about this community someone plays poorly some often say give them the benefit of the doubt they could be having a bad day, disabled, new even when they have multiple characters above their 60. Why do people feel the need to make excuses for playing poorly no matter the role or content.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

See the core flaw there? Healers are the only class that is expected to excel in two areas. What a strange and unexpected burden to place on a player.

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A core "flaw" based on the development team's design philosophy. The community didn't arbitrarily decide one day to prioritize DPS. In fact, in ARR and early HW, it was heavily frowned upon. That mindset changed as players realized how little healing was actually required, first in casual content then higher end once the Creator era became the established norm. In other words, the community's expectations adapted around a gradually easier game which didn't necessitate a focus on healing. Several of us in this very thread don't agree with this design philosophy for that very reason: we aren't healers, we're hybrid DPS who occasionally heal. Unfortunately, the dev team refuses to change their philosophy, thus indirectly encouraging a DPS-centric meta.

Give healers new gameplay decision besides nuke spamming and you'll see less nuke spamming. Player buffs, enemy debuffs, crown control and/or utility are all aspects that would provide engagement that isn't spamming the same button 150+ times. Ironically, your own perspective that healers cannot be too complicated only serves to keep them pigeoned hole in being valued for their DPS contributions and little else. A good "healer" isn't useful in higher end content. A good "hybrid healer" is.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

It really begs the question: who is the truly selfish player, the one who dictates how others should play for their own desire for speed or the player who is happy to perform their role exclusively? I'd be willing to accept that both can be described as a bit selfish, but even that seems to be too painful a truth for many.

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Let's pretend this is a group project where we have four girls forced to work together. The expectation is they each contribute 25% to the project. Perhaps there's some inexperience to consider or some life complications shift those numbers around for three of the girls. One, however, only contributes 10%. She's constantly late, doesn't care to join voice calls since it'll interrupt her Netflix binge. Upset over the prospect of having to do more work, the other girls complain and become frustrated with their work mate's lack of equal contribution. Alas, the project still needs to be done so they end up doing the additional work... with all four getting the same passing grade.

Pretty cut and dry who is selfish in this example, yes? That person is no different than a non-DPSing healer. They contributed significantly less than everyone else but we're supposed to be okay with that because... what, they did something? They didn't give a reason for their lack of effort or unwillingness to cooperate with their team mates. They just didn't care. And if you think healers don't partially AFK to watch Netflix, then you haven't done much DF.

With the GCD, it's all about opportunity costs. Every GCD action for each job is constantly competing with every other GCD action for use every 2.5 second window, and the way we choose which one is best is by determining which one is ultimately generating the most DPS for that 2.5 second window including healing. When we cast something like Medica II, it's because we've decided subconsciously that healing the party and giving everyone a regen is the option that will give us the most bang for our buck--that extra healing we're getting now and across the next 15 seconds will ultimately yield more damage indirectly than casting Glare or Holy as it will prevent someone on the team from being KOed where they otherwise might. Moreover, in that specific example, we've decided that this was the best available amount of healing we could offer or would need.

The same would ultimately be true for buffs, debuffs, and other forms of utility if they were added to the GCD. What are we getting from those abilities that would overall be a more optimal use of my GCD cast than simply casting Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis? You can see this thought process a bit more with Esuna since it's the only GCD action we have (except for Repose which is useless) that isn't healing or damage. If you get Toto-rak, for example, removing poison with Esuna is kind of a waste of time. The damage is too low and it doesn't last long enough to where wasting time on Esuna is worth it.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Healers are the only class that is expected to excel in two areas. What a strange and unexpected burden to place on a player.

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Today, I learned that tanks just slap the boss once or twice to establish aggro, then sit there twiddling their thumbs while they wait for an incoming tankbuster to use their defensive CDs on. They don't try to maximize DPS uptime, or keep their rotation rolling, and they definitely didn't use tank stance as little as possible back in HW when it carried a percentage penalty to DPS. All tanks are totally advised by guides to stack Tenacity, because that's the tanky tank stat that helps them tank better, and not DH or Crit, which are DPS stats that don't help them do their primary job. Yep, tanks are just not expected to contribute to party DPS at all, not like those poor healers who are being unreasonably pressured to remember where the 1 key on their keyboard is.

I also must have just hallucinated that whole period of FF14 when DPS jobs had enmity-reduction skills and were expected to use them to help with aggro management.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

It really begs the question: who is the truly selfish player, the one who dictates how others should play for their own desire for speed or the player who is happy to perform their role exclusively?

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Cool. I assume you're okay with Ice Mages and no-job-stone MRDs in your parties, then.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

If you're referring to cobbling together techniques in a way not native to the game's basic layout, then no, it's not important. You should address that one to SE's customer support or even ideas for lifestyle upgrades, not to me. Expecting players to create macros just to functionly play a class according to your standards is silly.

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Tells me everything I need to know about how poorly thought-out your arguments are. From context alone, you should have known Silver was refering to an ability. And you thought it had something to do with macros?

Being unfamiliar with AST is defensible. What isn't defensible is issuing grandiose proclamations about how your arguments are so brilliant we can't possibly engage with them (see below), when you couldn't even be assed to spend five seconds typing "macrocosmos ffxiv" into Google before opening your mouth.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

P. S. The moment you start inventing "facts" about my personality or play style (lazy, does no content, trolling) I indefinitely consider you to have fully yielded to my argument due to an inability to counter it in any factually based way and I can assuredly ignore all your posts. The equivalent of you shouting, "no u!"

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P.S. Declaring victory and sticking your fingers in your ears is not the galaxy-brain debate-winning move you seem to think it is. However, you may have a bright future in politics with that attitude...

Interesting to say the least

I suggest you play the White Mage Story quests. And make sure you read the detail of the story. It makes you understand why the healer role is very different from the others. It's unique enough that you aren't just playing to heal and watch out for the tank to top their HP up, Not just raising the DPS or esuna them when need. Sometimes healing takes more than just about press that one Cure, it takes insights, it takes a lot of forward thinking if you ever start playing Astrologian. Take every criticism. Just take every one of them and try them out. In such a way, you will play and see what works for you and what not. Sometimes it takes luck and skills in life, such too in playing. All said, you're playing a game. Don't take it too hard on yourself at what other people say or do.

Such in life... these watermelons aren't gonna change for you. Just eat it and then make sure it nutriently flourish in your gut and flush them down the toilet.

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Originally Posted by Onshinn

I suggest you play the White Mage Story quests. And make sure you read the detail of the story. It makes you understand why the healer role is very different from the others. It's unique enough that you aren't just playing to heal and watch out for the tank to top their HP up, Not just raising the DPS or esuna them when need. Sometimes healing takes more than just about press that one Cure, it takes insights, it takes a lot of forward thinking if you ever start playing Astrologian. Take every criticism. Just take every one of them and try them out. In such a way, you will play and see what works for you and what not. Sometimes it takes luck and skills in life, such too in playing. All said, you're playing a game. Don't take it too hard on yourself at what other people say or do.

Such in life... these watermelons aren't gonna change for you. Just eat it and then make sure it nutriently flourish in your gut and flush them down the toilet.

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Not gonna lie, I have no idea on what you're talking about besides doing the WHM story quest.

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Originally Posted by VeolE

Not gonna lie, I have no idea on what you're talking about besides doing the WHM story quest.

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I mean it’s a talk about to test out your own way of playing healer or any role in final fantasy 14 so you are happy with it (without sandbagging other player). Or in short if life gives you lemons, punch life in the throat.

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Originally Posted by VeolE

Not gonna lie, I have no idea on what you're talking about besides doing the WHM story quest.

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in the WHM story quest...(i think StB set) there's an interaction where it's said that tl;dr: DPSing is okay to do when you've got the time. standing idle for long periods is bad.