On Extreme Role-playing Within XIV

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

I'd like to say here that this game has a perfect example of how a fundamentally good person can have some seriously fucked up views: Gauis van Baelsar. Gaius is basically a heroic man who had the misfortune of being born into a nation run by villains. He wants to help people, and Garlemald tells him that the best way he can help the weakest among us is to rule them and show them the error of their savage ways. In Gaius's mind, conquering Eorzea was saving its backwards people from themselves. Gaius isn't a racist because he's evil or full of hate, he's a racist because he has no idea how to not be one. He's a racist because everyone he's ever trusted and learned from is a racist, and now its as natural as breathing to him.

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Gaius didnt care about race though only power. He was extremely anti religion and honestly he has a point about "gods" and those that follow them.

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Originally Posted by FusiaRain

Gaius didnt care about race though only power. He was extremely anti religion and honestly he has a point about "gods" and those that follow them.

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You're right. Replace racist with elitist and it becomes more accurate.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

You're right. Replace racist with elitist and it becomes more accurate.

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Eh honestly id agrue he isnt elitest he is more like the definition of trail by combat. If your strong you get his respect, if your weak you die.

Honestly thats natural selection by definition

Why do people feel the need to call everything sexual '' degenerate '' ( clearly what the OP means )?

RP:ing a racist character can be argued to be degenerate or sexual stuff that is actually immoral and illegal.
But just calling anything having to do with sexuality that comes across like some weird ultra conservative incel stuff to me.
It's like something I expect someone who obsesses about some conservative e-celeb and have read their anti-porn book and believes in abstinence who frequents Reddit would say lol.

Just basic sexual stuff and sexuality is like the most tame and natural thing imaginable.
But it's like if it's not within marriage or for procreation '' ermaghurd degenerate how dare you ''.

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Originally Posted by FusiaRain

Gaius didnt care about race though only power. He was extremely anti religion and honestly he has a point about "gods" and those that follow them.

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He did call us savages lol.
Altho yeah as far as Garleans I don't think he came across that way and they did expand.

Garleans aren't all racist that has been made pretty clear in the story and Gaius was more on that side.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I agree with Theodric, only pointing out some what of a double standard. But such characters, and even roleplayed character create far more depth within a story over the "casual" and unseemly roleplay that is the norm in XIV.

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The difference is that you're causing more direct harm to other people.
If you think that someone ERP:ing is '' harmful '' to you, then I mean...
Maybe don't go outside because you might see some underwear commercial or something, I mean I think at that point it's kind of a '' grow up '' situation.

If someone is RP:ing a racist tho then it can cause emotional distress and make the experience very negative for other players in a more objective sense.
It just gives actual degenerates as the word you yourself used an out and excuse to be degenerated in the game.
The amount of toxicity and people being banned would skyrocket.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

But just calling anything having to do with sexuality that comes across like some weird ultra conservative incel stuff to me.

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Always come down to that eh.

Actually that's really funny what you're saying here.
Acting all high and mighty and that everyone else that doesn't think like you must "grow up" but start to cry almost immediatly after about how ppl are mean to ERP players.

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Originally Posted by Izscha

Always come down to that eh.

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I mean yeah, if someone does kiss emotes in a video game and have pretend sex or whatever and you think that's degenerate.
Then you either don't understand what that word means or you're just applying your own abnormal thoughts on sex to it.
To most people who didn't grow up with video games and haven't had the excessive amounts of violence normalized to them either they'll probably look at something as DOOM and MK11 in a more messed up light than that.

It's the kind of stuff I expect to see on incel subreddits.
Sure ERP:ing isn't common and necessarily normal, but being sexual isn't abnormal behaviour and we do a lot of things in video games that are not normal RP:ing altogether isn't.
If you apply that term to general sexual stuff so easily then I do think it enters that realm.

If we're talking about stuff like Lalafells ERP:ing as minors then I do think you can call that degenerate, altho it's still fantasy and we still do a lot of immoral and messed up things in video games.
But I do think that most people will agree that it's different and does make you question them as people irl and why they'd do that specifically.

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Originally Posted by Izscha

Actually that's really funny what you're saying here.
Acting all high and mighty and that everyone else that doesn't think like you must "grow up" but start to cry almost immediatly after about how ppl are mean to ERP players.

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How am I crying?
Calling people degenerate for doing such tame stuff that you yourself consider to be bad '' degenerate '' I'd say is acting all high and mighty, so if you think that then the OP started and I responded in kind.
I never said that you can't think like me, I am talking about calling it degenerate.

If the OP had just said '' I don't like ERP '' then I wouldn't have said anything.
The OP went beyond that there is a bit more nuance here.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Why do people feel the need to call everything sexual '' degenerate '' ( clearly what the OP means )?

RP:ing a racist character can be argued to be degenerate or sexual stuff that is actually immoral and illegal.
But just calling anything having to do with sexuality that comes across like some weird ultra conservative incel stuff to me.
It's like something I expect someone who obsesses about some conservative e-celeb and have read their anti-porn book and believes in abstinence who frequents Reddit would say lol.

Just basic sexual stuff and sexuality is like the most tame and natural thing imaginable.
But it's like if it's not within marriage or for procreation '' ermaghurd degenerate how dare you ''.



He did call us savages lol.
Altho yeah as far as Garleans I don't think he came across that way and they did expand.

Garleans aren't all racist that has been made pretty clear in the story and Gaius was more on that side.



The difference is that you're causing more direct harm to other people.
If you think that someone ERP:ing is '' harmful '' to you, then I mean...
Maybe don't go outside because you might see some underwear commercial or something, I mean I think at that point it's kind of a '' grow up '' situation.

If someone is RP:ing a racist tho then it can cause emotional distress and make the experience very negative for other players in a more objective sense.
It just gives actual degenerates as the word you yourself used an out and excuse to be degenerated in the game.
The amount of toxicity and people being banned would skyrocket.

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Calling someone a savage isnt racist if your saying it because their religions and societys status...

And honestly Limsa and Uldah i
are savages... With how the society works..

Also savages can mean multiple things having nothing to do with races lol

Ive seen people take the roleplaying into chat. Its cringy and unecessary. Like...you want to talk to the person cause its a human being and they act like they are on meds....ive ran into one person that was like that and ill never forget it.

I think its best to just leave the acting to when you LARP or something. I dunno...

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Originally Posted by Necrogen

Ive seen people take the roleplaying into chat. Its cringy and unecessary. Like...you want to talk to the person cause its a human being and they act like they are on meds....ive ran into one person that was like that and ill never forget it.

I think its best to just leave the acting to when you LARP or something. I dunno...

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LARp community's are kind rare in states at the least.. Outside stupid star wars Larp/lord of the rings

Also somethings that may seem unneed really are for context/detail to prevent meta/godmoding.

What I mean is many things are seen as unneeded until your there doing it but it really is needed for the storys detail of the characters.

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Originally Posted by FusiaRain

Snip.

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I do think it's implied in the game to be somewhat indicative of their general view of us and that there is racism involved.
But I do agree that I don't think Gaius was actually racist just that it might've come across that way for some people.
Like you play the game and you see Garleans being racist *and* calling people savages, and then he just randomly blurts it out repeatedly I can see why some would think it came across that way.
I'd also say that people are racist towards Garleans too, race is obviously involved in this equation.
But I wouldn't say that our characters or the Scions are, even if they're obviously a bit iffy about Garleans they run into initially.

You're right that it doesn't necessarily have to do with race, but I think it's pretty clear in the game that it does on top of everything else.

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Originally Posted by Izscha

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I never brought up Trump or alt-right nazis etc you're going completely off the rails.
Just because you ERP also doesn't mean that you '' want to fuck all the time '' you're reaching so hard and are making quite absurd suggestions.
And yes if you think that because someone ERP's it means that they only think about sex 24/7 and '' want to fuck all the time '' then you do kinda need to grow up it's a very immature outlook on people and the world.
Just because you do something and you enjoy it doesn't mean that you're obsessed with it to an unhealthy level, these are the same arguments people make about playing video games too.
Or people thinking that if a woman wears something that shows legs or cleavage that it's an invitation for sex and that she's a '' slut '' etc, it's such an absurdly reduced down way of viewing the world and people.

I also never said that women can't be incels.
You're just making so many assumptions based on nothing.

I'd say that enjoying and getting hyped up about seeing someone get their face sliced down the middle and their brain plucked out and eaten in a close up on the camera as half their body has been mutilated ala Mortal Kombat is more degenerated to basically any sane human being than just basic ERP.
But I don't see that getting called degenerate, and it's because there is usually a lot of baggage involved as to why people think that something like ERP is degenerate that extends to real life.

Calling someone degenerated for enjoying something in a video game and fantasy I do think it's pretty dumb in general.
The only time I can see it is when there is some more morally questionable thing that probably does extend to real life like ERP:ing as characters who are minors.
I do think that enters a different area where you can kinda go '' hold on a minute, why minors?... ''.
Calling that degenerate I think would be fine, but that is not what the OP did.

Edit: Like ask yourself why you think that the OP believes that ERP is degenerate, but not RP:ing a racist bigot?
Why do you think that is exactly?
You don't think that says something about the OP?

There's no issue RPing a character having those traits as long as the writer can you know..... WRITE. The reason why people might have an issue is a few actually. One the writer can suck and in turn make it look like it's OOC when it's posed to be in character, which would cause issues. 2. Sometimes people use it as an excuse to be horrible, no need to explain that. And 3. which is where alot of people fall into is, they are just bad writers. Those are the issues I've seen across many areas online. You can RP whatever you want, just know that the deeper it is the harder it'll be finding random like people. IF you want that kindof RP you'll be better off finding a small group of like minded fork and go from there. You're not finding it in the quicksands.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I never brought up Trump or alt-right nazis etc you're going completely off the rails.
Just because you ERP also doesn't mean that you '' want to fuck all the time '' you're reaching so hard and are making quite absurd suggestions.
And yes if you think that because someone ERP's it means that they only think about sex 24/7 and '' want to fuck all the time '' then you do kinda need to grow up it's a very immature outlook on people and the world.
Just because you do something and you enjoy it doesn't mean that you're obsessed with it to an unhealthy level, these are the same arguments people make about playing video games too.
Or people thinking that if a woman wears something that shows legs or cleavage that it's an invitation for sex and that she's a '' slut '' etc, it's such an absurdly reduced down way of viewing the world and people.

I also never said that women can't be incels.
You're just making so many assumptions based on nothing.

I'd say that enjoying and getting hyped up about seeing someone get their face sliced down the middle and their brain plucked out and eaten in a close up on the camera as half their body has been mutilated ala Mortal Kombat is more degenerated to basically any sane human being than just basic ERP.
But I don't see that getting called degenerate, and it's because there is usually a lot of baggage involved as to why people think that something like ERP is degenerate that extends to real life.

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I'm just doing the exact same thing as you did earlier, and it seems like we both agree that's kinda pointless and stupid.
People beliefs will never be about growing up, and certainly not when it comes to subject as close and personnal as sex. The thing here is that you do believe that if you got a problem with sex, you're immature which is quoting yourself "reaching so hard and are making quite absurd suggestions". You're no one to judge anyone else beliefs that's it, and since you do that anyway i dont see any problem them calling you degenerates in return, that's good war.

"You're just making so many assumptions based on nothing."

Well yeah, that was the point.
You're the one who did bring the political part there, even tho almost everything is political by nature you're the one making assumptions about those people and what are their political side and make it sounds like that's a bad thing, not me.
WHich says a lot about you actually, and your activism.
Based on what you say i could just say "bruh another disconnected leftist that do believe the world is about them".

About your last part, sure you can say that it's degenerate too, why both can't ? Ppl saying ERP is for degenerates automatically play and enjoy this kind of games ? I dont get where youi're going there.
You dont see that ? Gosh each single time any violent stuff comes out we got tons of article about how it's terrible and that it should not exist it's not rare at all it's as targeted as sex is.

Dunno if you can't answer because you did reach the limit per day so i will edit too so i can answer to your edit.

I dont think much of it, he dislikes ERP which i can get ( not saying that i do agree there, just that i understand it from someone who has read stuff i whished i never had to ) i'm really not the one that will openly talk about sex either even if that's fictional, that's why i'm not an actor or work in the ententainment industry, he would like to portray his character with stuff that are not ok to some too, i don't believe that you want to RP as a racist you're a racist, just like i dont think actors playing and saying racist stuff in their work are racist.
To me if you stick and only stick about your character RP, it doesn't have anything to do with what you are irl.
The only thing i had a problem with as stated above is that since you do judge one's belief or political view based on what they dislike, i dont see the problem with them doing the same with you and what you like, as simple as that.
My gross exemple above was there to show how easy it is to judge someone on the little knowledge we have about them, and i do not think that's ok.

There's ppl who don't see the difference betwen playing around and doing something serious. Sometimes it's the roleplayers and sometimes the ppl who see roleplay as cringe/bad.

To create a good story eatch character needs flaws or it gets boring. There's no problem in creating a racist character or a murderer as long as there's a good reason behind it. For example a dude hating lalafels because 1 or several of them mistreated his family is decent enough, then having that dude forming a party with another lalafel could be interesting. Creating a story with only nice characters is waaaaay harder to do without making it boring for everyone.

In FFXIV and other games i just can't rp because of the lack of seperation between playing normaly and roleplaying so i prefer doing it by text on forums (it's slow as fuck tho) but the idea still stands. Most players in this game don't like or don't care about rp so it's seen as cringe really fast. Some players don't use roleplay in a way that makes non-roleplayers confortable and get most of the attention, so making a story with only nice characters is safer. It's that or finding a way to do it without others being able to see anything.

Honestly a more robust pvp system could help diversify role-playing within the game and take it away from the sort of cringey "nightclub/bar/brothel" that has dominated it for so long. Furthermore, for those that take umbrage with my usage of the word degenerate let me apologize. I did not mean to offend, its just as a young man I played alot of Fallout New Vegas and tended to side with the Legion, and so degenerate entered my vocabulary to be used for things I dislike. Old habits die hard. I will also say some of the takes in this thread resorted to the age old "if you play a character like that, you must endorse that!" pejorative. This is why characters are so dull these days.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Greetings, and baiting title aside I would like to begin a discussion over fringe role-playing within the game. No, not the usual degenerate type often debated, but rather what is almost never discussed. That being topics such as role-playing a character who might be racist, xenophobic or intolerant. A Garlean loyalist who believes in the cause, or a Xaela ultra nationalist. A moral compromised character. I've found these types of role-playing within XIV to be almost nonexistent and even treated as taboo. More so than even actual unseemly roleplay of the other type. This is strange to me, as I come from other games that have a much more varied community when it comes to types of characters roleplayed. It makes XIV's scene seem stagnant and boring. Thoughts on why?

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It's too real, and it's not controlled. If you're RPing a character that would be considered bad IRL, and they never get a come uppence then it doesn't sit right with people today.

Like, think about the movie Django: Unchained. Great movie with insanely racist characters. As bad as it gets though, all of the bad people get killed in the end.

Compare and contrast with No Country for Old Men. A film that's said to be great, but its ending bothers a lot of people(myself included), because the bad guy doesn't really get a come uppence, and all of the good guys are either defeated or killed.

RP in XIV is a deeply curated experience. People already have so many hang ups for even the simplest of things. There's also RP characters that don't even fit the setting, really. I think that's why most people do ERP, too. There's not a lot of commitment and such.

In my experience there's also a desire for characters to fall in love, and for their pilots to do the same OOC. Which, I mean, is kind of understandable. There's a lot of young folks and socially awkward older folks doing this. RP is the way they socialize. They aren't going to bring racism, nationalism etc. into that.

But even more than that, with most people playing XIV being younger, they don't really know how to accurately portray racism anyway. The concept has even been rewritten several times since I was in High School over a decade ago. Overton shifts and all that. It is verboten to even suggest it still have a place in fiction(or at least is moving that way imo).

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Rping a garlean or ascian sounds super fun tbh imo. More fun than the typical "Bar owner" or "Brothel owner"

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Yeah, but does a garlean or ascian make as much gil?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The assumption is that people simply pick such characters to be 'edgy', that simply isn't the case in my experience.

(...)

For many, role-play is about becoming a character that is a realistic part of the game world. That may mean that the character is, in some ways, imperfect or flawed.

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The game also has to allow said roleplay to actually take place, but yeah, that's for sure what it's about for me: to have my character feel like a realistic part of the game world. I think a problem with a lot of people's roleplay is that they can't separate themselves from their character. Rather, the character isn't a unique entity, it is them (the player) in the game world. Where they bring their real life ideologies, and feelings, into the game; they tend to take their roleplay personally, which can lead to heated exchanges. Granted, on the other side people can also take extreme role playing too far, and hide behind that as "just roleplay" as well, not going to say that doesn't happen.

Either way, I prefer to stick with the sort of "light roleplay" I do in RPGs, and not really bother doing it with strangers over the internet, but when I do do that sort of "light roleplay" my character alignments range from lawful to chaotics, good, neutral, or evil. Sometimes changing over the course of the story. It can be refreshing to play a game with a character of a different perspective. I just wish more games would allow for that sort of freedom of choice.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

RP in XIV is a deeply curated experience. People already have so many hang ups for even the simplest of things. There's also RP characters that don't even fit the setting, really. I think that's why most people do ERP, too. There's not a lot of commitment and such.

In my experience there's also a desire for characters to fall in love, and for their pilots to do the same OOC. Which, I mean, is kind of understandable. There's a lot of young folks and socially awkward older folks doing this. RP is the way they socialize. They aren't going to bring racism, nationalism etc. into that.

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I like this wording right here. A lot of the mainstream RP falls under this. Players want to treat this as a Isekai or Second Life and while a viable version of RP this game is so lore rich with a bunch of preset scenarios they're missing out. Like role playing on SWToR, SWG, ESO, WoW, and LoTRo, FF14 world is full of cool potential plot set ups thats falls under the less than savory points. Syndicate basic mob hold over Uldah, Pirates doing pirate things in Limsa, Elves being elves in the twelveswood, or a Viera who went against the Green Word to set off on a journey never to return home, so on and so forth. And these are things introduced in game. A good scenario writer can write a story that is really good and not God Mod(which is fun for no one).

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think a problem with a lot of people's roleplay is that they can't separate themselves from their character. Rather, the character isn't a unique entity, it is them (the player) in the game world. Where they bring their real life ideologies, and feelings, into the game; they tend to take their roleplay personally, which can lead to heated exchanges.

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This kinda hits home with me with one of the main problems with the 14 RP setting. Its the main reason my wife doesn't play anymore and despises this game. A (what we thought was a) harmless quick RP session inside of the Vault lead to a couple of server hops then a IRL confrontation. Its kinda makes you over analyze a open world situation and takes away from just straight on natural occurring RPing.

Have not read the thread, but I am sure it comes down to people take RP actions against their character as personal attacks. This community seems to think their character is a reflection of their own self. We have had countless threads that support this notion, in short we have a snowflake community that is why.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

So you want to pretend to be edgy and get away with the things you can't say in person.

Don't.

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And I am sure if we were to scour through your own RP history, we'd find things along those lines which certain people would consider "edgy" or "don't go there, sweetie" - including your character engaging in slaughter, for example - something I very much doubt you'd do or be able to get away with IRL for the most part, irrespective of the context.

At the end of the day, I'll RP whatever takes my fancy, whether some regard it as "edgy" or not, or whether they'd rather stick to sanitised RP that deliberately precludes elements present in the setting and therefore available to RP. Good thing we can choose whether to interact or not.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

It's too real, and it's not controlled. If you're RPing a character that would be considered bad IRL, and they never get a come uppence then it doesn't sit right with people today.

Like, think about the movie Django: Unchained. Great movie with insanely racist characters. As bad as it gets though, all of the bad people get killed in the end.

Compare and contrast with No Country for Old Men. A film that's said to be great, but its ending bothers a lot of people(myself included), because the bad guy doesn't really get a come uppence, and all of the good guys are either defeated or killed.

RP in XIV is a deeply curated experience. People already have so many hang ups for even the simplest of things. There's also RP characters that don't even fit the setting, really. I think that's why most people do ERP, too. There's not a lot of commitment and such.

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I can't say it bothers me in the same way. Different strokes for different folks, until it morphs into preaching what I can or can't RP or opinions on how that "reflects" on me as a person, or what I "should" or "shouldn't" like RP-wise. This game is particularly unusual in having a vocal minority so fixated on being "wholesome" (while also going on crusades some might term "toxic" against anyone with a diverging set of preferences...) In other games, I like the ability to play out whatever takes my fantasy on a given day and not worry whether it triggers some individuals fixated on moral crusades. In a XIV context, if I were RPing, I just wouldn't interact with such individuals, who cannot separate fiction from reality.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Have not read the thread, but I am sure it comes down to people take RP actions against their character as personal attacks. This community seems to think their character is a reflection of their own self. We have had countless threads that support this notion, in short we have a snowflake community that is why.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yeah, but does a garlean or ascian make as much gil?

The game also has to allow said roleplay to actually take place, but yeah, that's for sure what it's about for me: to have my character feel like a realistic part of the game world. I think a problem with a lot of people's roleplay is that they can't separate themselves from their character. Rather, the character isn't a unique entity, it is them (the player) in the game world. Where they bring their real life ideologies, and feelings, into the game; they tend to take their roleplay personally, which can lead to heated exchanges. Granted, on the other side people can also take extreme role playing too far, and hide behind that as "just roleplay" as well, not going to say that doesn't happen.

Either way, I prefer to stick with the sort of "light roleplay" I do in RPGs, and not really bother doing it with strangers over the internet, but when I do do that sort of "light roleplay" my character alignments range from lawful to chaotics, good, neutral, or evil. Sometimes changing over the course of the story. It can be refreshing to play a game with a character of a different perspective. I just wish more games would allow for that sort of freedom of choice.

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Exactly right and agreed.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

role-playing a character who might be racist, xenophobic or intolerant

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Such lengthy discussions about this when it's so simple. Nobody wants to be around a dick like that.

Writing characters who are bigots or generally just bad people for whatever reason is pretty easy. It's pretty common. It all comes down to how you play it, like with most cases of role play. But role playing is something of a communal thing - and it's something people do for fun. And if your character isn't fun to interact with, then people aren't going to want to role play with you. It's pretty simple. Aside from the basic reaction of "I don't like racists so I don't want to interact with someone pretending to be a racist" - a lot of people are genuinely just bad at playing the compelling antagonist type. Stomping around shouting slurs and being a jerk to everyone is just going to make people not want to be around you, whether you're doing it "in character" or not. My character has nothing to gain from interacting with the lunatic standing on the street corner screaming about lalafell commit thirty percent of the crimes despite only making up fifteen percent of the population. You really need something more to your character than just "is a huge racist", basically. And at that point there's no reason to broadcast that you're playing a racist, because you don't need to bandy about what an edgy boy you are because you have an actual character, you read? If the only way you can think of to make a character interesting or unique is to make them a bigot - then you really need to expand yourself a bit more.

Some of the most interesting and multi-faceted characters of the main story i found to be characters like Yozuyu and Fordola, both illustrating that the answers for ones darker nature are not as simple as "jerks and fresh baked heroes".

An antagonist has -good- reason to believe in what they do. An imperial who would do anything to crush the resistance against the Empire, carries a conviction of "protection, stability and sustanance for the people at all costs".. while being colorblind, as anyone else, to the full picture and the means never ending up delivering what was promised.

Yozuyu, seen merely as a character template.. is an interesting follow up on the tragic truth that "the hate's seed you sow into children will blossom into pain and death with plenty to share". These souls are real, and there are many victimizers in our world driven by these festering wounds within them.

It is to say the least interesting to follow these character tropes too in RP.. white knight characters can actually often be fitted into the antagonist role too, being so full of self-righteousness that they would trample on "the impure lessers".

Yup yup, well said. All this RP puritanism can strip out a lot of fun ideas to play around with.

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Originally Posted by Setesh45

Such lengthy discussions about this when it's so simple. Nobody wants to be around a dick like that.

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Care to explain? Like around a character that is a dick, or are you saying the person who creates the character is a dick?

Hate rping but wouldn't mind rping some discrimination against elezens maybe.

OP: "role-playing a character who might be racist, xenophobic or intolerant"

RP depends on the consent of all involved parties. As long as you have that consent up-front, I see nothing wrong with playing any of these particular characteristics.

What I fear is that you will encounter players who did not provide that consent, who are unaware that this is RP and who will, ultimately, report you for harassment under the ToS. Telling the GMs "I was only role-playing a character" won't cut it at that point.

Depending on how you play your character, you may find players unwilling to engage, or, worse, dismissive: "Oh, they're just that way. Ignore it, they're generally nice outside that one flaw".

In any case, limit encounters where the behaviours are on display to link shells and/or tells ... being public without consent from all parties will get you reported, and rightly so.

One final note: the use of the word "degenerate" in a public discussion is a moral judgement that should not be used lightly. It should not be used to indicate some amorphous "dislike". It has derailed your original post quite badly.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Care to explain? Like around a character that is a dick, or are you saying the person who creates the character is a dick?

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The RP character that's a dick. I role-played with a character like that for a while, it completely ruined the atmosphere every time, the whole RP session just ruined by one person role-playing a racist egotistical orc.
After our second session I had people refusing to go with him. He kept harassing the elves in our party, his every second line was an insult towards someone. IRL you wouldn't stay around someone like that, so why should you in RP?

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Originally Posted by Lauront

And I am sure if we were to scour through your own RP history, we'd find things along those lines which certain people would consider "edgy" or "don't go there, sweetie" - including your character engaging in slaughter, for example - something I very much doubt you'd do or be able to get away with IRL for the most part, irrespective of the context.

At the end of the day, I'll RP whatever takes my fancy, whether some regard it as "edgy" or not, or whether they'd rather stick to sanitised RP that deliberately precludes elements present in the setting and therefore available to RP. Good thing we can choose whether to interact or not.

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I mean, duh. If you think "don't roleplay" was the point of my message, man I hope I never get stuck RPing with you.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The assumption is that people simply pick such characters to be 'edgy', that simply isn't the case in my experience.

Nobody becomes a murderer when they decide to join the Dark Brotherhood in an Elder Scrolls game. Or if they choose to role-play a mercenary for hire in FFXIV.

Nobody becomes a thief when they decide to join the Thieves Guild in an Elder Scrolls game. Or if they choose to portray role-play a pickpocket in FFXIV.

For many, role-play is about becoming a character that is a realistic part of the game world. That may mean that the character is, in some ways, imperfect or flawed.

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Don't be obtuse. All roleplaying is a wish fulfilment. It's right there in the name. Role. Playing.

I want to be a big ol' racist is a choice, sure. But don't expect people to understand it or accept it.

You will find that most ideas in RP, whether they are controversial or not, tend to end up divisive. Maybe start smaller and try your best not to be misunderstood.

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

If the only way you can think of to make a character interesting or unique is to make them a bigot - then you really need to expand yourself a bit more.

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Ofc it's not the only way but not everyone is good ah storytelling so taking a big flaw as a base can be a good start. And like you said it depends how it's done. Starting with a bigot is fine but staying only a bigot is the wrong way to play.

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Originally Posted by Setesh45

The RP character that's a dick. I role-played with a character like that for a while, it completely ruined the atmosphere every time, the whole RP session just ruined by one person role-playing a racist egotistical orc.
After our second session I had people refusing to go with him. He kept harassing the elves in our party, his every second line was an insult towards someone. IRL you wouldn't stay around someone like that, so why should you in RP?

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Well, I mean in IRL such actions do cause a sense of lasting damage, but in terms of RP if that is their character I do not understand what made them feel uncomfortable, wouldn't it have made more sense to express the discomfort through the RP session verse just ignoring the person altogether? Just seems like the player was being avoided because others were personally comfortable not their characters. Though it does also sound like a poorly written character, which is fine line, they do not have to be overly racist where every other word is a slur that is just lazy. So I can also understand it from that PoV, though it seems less to do with a racist character and more so the person created a poor racist character.

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Originally Posted by Cyreil

Maybe because it requires you to put yourself into the mindset of being racist, xenophobic and intolerant.

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It also does require you to unnaturally feel like you and your character are the same to get offended by it. I mean, I have yet to feel offended when a Garlean calls me "EORZEAN SAVAGE!!!1!" during the story, can't see why it would be any different in Roleplay, especially since you can talk back to players.

Then again, I used to roleplay in WoW and let me tell you, almost every nightborne, blood, void and night elves tended to be prettyyyyyy elvish levels of xenophobic.

Time and place. Nuance and consideration. And most of all, consent and affirmation.

These are the key components to playing any sort of antagonistic character in any sort of roleplay. They're the same bedrock principles used in all kinds of roleplay. Yes, to many the bar scene RP might seem bland, but that is by intention for those who are seeking to alleviate other outside stresses. Mindlessly throwing an antagonist into that mix without consent or consideration might not be the smartest thing to do - and this is from someone who's played Garlean and mixed-blood Garleans before for Roleplay.

"Why can't I play _____" has clear and definable answers with exceptions you can work around. Follow guidelines and respect other people's intentions desires and personal spaces and you'll find that niche you're looking for - and probably provide a great experience for others looking for that sort of thing as well. That's how RP communities intend to work. (Harder in execution. Ego, drama, loss of personal detachment and social/interpersonal issues native to being invested in a story can and will all rear their ugly heads in RP environments.)

I think this is just a matter of looking for the right crowd to play with. There's multiple RP sites and communities available to reference and look for if you're wanting that. I've been out of the RP scene for a couple years now so any suggestions I'd make would be dated. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Well, I mean in IRL such actions do cause a sense of lasting damage, but in terms of RP if that is their character I do not understand what made them feel uncomfortable, wouldn't it have made more sense to express the discomfort through the RP session verse just ignoring the person altogether? Just seems like the player was being avoided because others were personally comfortable not their characters.

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Yes, the behaviour made them personally feel uncomfortable. People who roleplay are emotionally invested in their characters and in the roleplay.
The guy also wasn't a random person but a part of the guild and an IRL friend to another guldie. Unfortunately, this person got invited into the guild via this friend and not the official way, this was the result.
In the end nobody wanted to openly exclude him because he was in the guild but they also didn't want to play with him because he refused to change his ways in character.

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Originally Posted by Setesh45

Yes, the behaviour made them personally feel uncomfortable. People who roleplay are emotionally invested in their characters and in the roleplay.
The guy also wasn't a random person but a part of the guild and an IRL friend to another guldie. Unfortunately, this person got invited into the guild via this friend and not the official way, this was the result.
In the end nobody wanted to openly exclude him because he was in the guild but they also didn't want to play with him because he refused to change his ways in character.

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Though I think that goes to show the point many have made, the person and the character should be able to separate ones feelings. Sure it is understandable for ones character to be uncomfortable since the slurs and comments are aimed towards the character. Though for what reason should the person behind the keyboard feel uncomfortable? The comments are not aimed towards them in any shape or form. Maybe I am a boomer, but rule of thumb I have always been told to follow is another player does not have the right to ask another within the group to alter their characters personality unless it is grossly overpowered or something along those lines.

Personally, I think it's way too far and even tiring to even THINK about this idea of "if you're someone who RPs as hating lalas then you're racist irl" I just. I'm so tired. It's both a joke and insult. Like please do not put a lalafell hater on the same level as someone who would gun me down simply for breathing, do not insult me like that. If you can't comprehend why even insinuating that someone pretending to be racist against made up characters is awful, I don't know what to tell you other than you're apparently extremely sheltered and perhaps are consuming way too much fiction. Please read about reality sometimes too. The two will never compare, it'll never be the same, you will never be the leader of morality that you think you are attempting to pull that self indulgent little trick.

And what anyway is the proposed idea in relation to this. Have there be one set of RP rules and everyone has to follow it to a T or they should be banned? Everyone should have the same views, the same mindsets, the same backgrounds-you all just wanna relive the same fart sniffing stories over and over again just to remain morally righteous in a video game? In a video game where both you and all the other main characters around you make morally questionable decisions from time to time???

Are we finally reaching that point where media isnt allowed to have conflict? Because I've seen it popping up with fan writers and other things. Like.. "well if you make a villain, you CO-SIGN what that villain does because you literally created him" Huh?? Then where does the good guy come in? Where's the dark to fight for light? It's ok to enjoy slice of life, but why does everything have to fit this bubble of an ideal perfect no one is ever hurt EVER world?

It's 100% ok to not RP with people you're not comfortable with. Regardless of the situation.
It's 100% ok to avoid someone for in-character and even out of character reasons. Regardless of the situation.
Everyone has boundaries. Everyone has preferences. That's good, that's great. Surround yourself with what you enjoy and others that enjoy you.
But for the love of god, please don't go and look for people who write in ways you don't like and then seek to have them thrown out of communities or banned or anything else. Just leave them alone. We don't need people trying to be the RP police about what others are and arent allowed to pretend in their own mind in regards to their made up character. Ok. None of it is real. None of it is real and the idea of potentially getting people in trouble for made up thought crimes is so unhinged it makes me worry for the future of story telling entirely. Enjoy Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by Setesh45

The RP character that's a dick. I role-played with a character like that for a while, it completely ruined the atmosphere every time, the whole RP session just ruined by one person role-playing a racist egotistical orc.
After our second session I had people refusing to go with him. He kept harassing the elves in our party, his every second line was an insult towards someone.

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This sort of thing has been my experience with more "extreme RP" as well. When someone wants to RP as the "extreme" sort it almost always goes hand in hand with them wanting every interaction to be About Them. Really by it's very nature, it sort of almost has to be at least a fairly major part of the scene. I mean, if you have Susan BigMuscles spouting racist, sexist, etc. commentary it's hard for other characters to at least not address it, even if she's only doing it over in the corner. That can be fine for a scene or two but if it's just a constant thing and a "feature" of the character it can absolutely make RPing with them a drag. Even if you don't take their commentary personally, when every RP session ends up being about the same thing it can just get boring and annoying.

I tried to roleplay on 14 once.

I created an unconventional, highly flawed character with a visible physical disability.

People kept asking me why I would want to play such a flawed character, particularly one that wouldn't be considered physically attractive. I realized pretty quickly that virtually everyone who roleplays on this game plays the same cookie-cutter, self-insert, sexy, strong, calm, cool, collected, boring character, and that 90% of them are using ERP potential as their first evaluation of your character.

When you get a bunch of people who create characters that are essentially self-insert, better versions of themselves, it's not surprising that they'll heavily question why anyone would want to play a xenophobe or racist. Their immediate assumption is that you're creating your character for similar reasons, ergo you must be xenophobic or racist.

To address some of the issues presented. One, you can play a racist character without constantly having them hurl slurs all the time. A better way to do it is to be subtle, such as having your choices built around being indifferent and acting without remorse towards that which your character dislikes. Same thing for xenophobia and intolerance. Two, when everything is the same it gets boring and bland. Such is my issue with XIV's scene. In fact it kind of burned me out on rp as a whole, given as it's the game I spent the most time in. It's really needs to get spiced up a bit in my opinion. Three, the fact that it creates an atmosphere of unease is intentional. It creates a more textured, believable experience. This is a good thing, writing wise atleast.

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Originally Posted by Hatfright

The problem with that sort of roleplaying I usually saw in other games is someone just starts spewing insults at others for no reason. And when you confront them about it, it's always "Thats just how my character is, relax, lol". Well, don't be surprised your character gets slapped over and over then, cuz if it wasn't discussed beforehand, it's not other players job to change your characters mind.
Roleplaying supposed to be fun and comfortable for every party involved. Communicating with co-players first, throwing imaginary fists later, if everyone is okay with it.

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This. I've been role-playing for *mumbles* years now, and too often people use the "I'm a racist POS character" as a stand-in for their actual beliefs and as a way to harass and abuse other players. I'm honestly glad the community doesn't have too many of these kinds of people.

That being said, the characters I have seen played more zealously (Garlean/Ishgardian nationalist/etc) usually aren't there to make it their whole personality, which makes more more fun and interesting RP with a character like that.