Houses should have a monthly fee

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Originally Posted by Serenitey

Doesn't really have to do with what I posted but ok. Sure thing. *pats*

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Is there any reason to be so condescending?

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

No, I've been against this from the start. You'd have to actually implement some hefty rent amounts to even remotely touch the people who abuse the housing system.

But that'd punish players who prioritize things other than making vast sums of gil in game.

Also it has this cringe tone of 'I don't approve of how you use your house'.

This just feels like spitting in the wind tbh. It's 'I want to take away what people have' and that bothers me.

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Why?

1million for a large plot per month
750k for medium plot per month
250k for a small plot per month

It is a great idea to pay taxes like that, and if you can afford a large house then 1million per month is just a grab in the pocket.

Also a good way to get some control over the multiple house owners and a subtle but legal way to run grandfathering to the ground as well as multiple shell FC owners for a greater good.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

It is a great idea to pay taxes like that

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The only needed tax is a running subscription. Grind mechanics like these are just bad.

Gil sinking would be a nice to have features, but this isnt where that should be. Even if i can easily collect the gil to maintain a large plot doesnt mean i want to.

(now if only i had a house to begin with though...)

How about NO!
A game shouldnt become a job where you have to work and earn money just to keep what you have. Stop making up complicated ways to hurt/punish houseowners.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Why?

1million for a large plot per month
750k for medium plot per month
250k for a small plot per month

It is a great idea to pay taxes like that, and if you can afford a large house then 1million per month is just a grab in the pocket.

Also a good way to get some control over the multiple house owners and a subtle but legal way to run grandfathering to the ground as well as multiple shell FC owners for a greater good.

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Dude, 250k a month is nothing. You can get that in a few days. 1 million a month is nothing, you get that in a couple weeks.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Why?

1million for a large plot per month
750k for medium plot per month
250k for a small plot per month

It is a great idea to pay taxes like that, and if you can afford a large house then 1million per month is just a grab in the pocket.

Also a good way to get some control over the multiple house owners and a subtle but legal way to run grandfathering to the ground as well as multiple shell FC owners for a greater good.

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Ah yes. Let us turn a game into a grind like real life. Fantastic idea. (No, actually, it is not.)

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

How about NO!
A game shouldnt become a job where you have to work and earn money just to keep what you have. Stop making up complicated ways to hurt/punish houseowners.

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You're right that it shouldn't be necessary, but SE created a system where something has to be done due to the limited supply.

So how else do you suggest getting houses back into circulation for those who want one but can't get one?

The game throws money at players for actively participating in content other than PvP and Gold Saucer. A lot of players could help themselves by being smarter about how they're spending the gil they receive. They need to be asking themselves why they're "poor" when other players aren't.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

Ah yes. Let us turn a game into a grind like real life. Fantastic idea. (No, actually, it is not.)

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How do any of those numbers represent a grind?

I take 30 minutes per character each week to do 4-5 weekly hunt bills plus 12 Custom Deliveries. I make roughly 90k gil in those 30 minutes (which will include gil bonuses from Challenge log entry completion). That's already 360k gil a month versus the 250k suggested as a tax and doesn't touch on how I turn other things earned doing that content (hunt currency and crafter/gatherer scrip) into more gil. Then there's all the other content I play that also rewards gil or things that can be turned into gil.

There's no additional grind needed. You just need to play the game, which is presumably what players are here to do. If the only reason someone logs in is to hang around in Limsa gossiping, then of course they're not going to be earning gil but they don't also need a house if all they do is hang around in Limsa.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

How do any of those numbers represent a grind?

I take 30 minutes per character each week to do 4-5 weekly hunt bills plus 12 Custom Deliveries. I make roughly 90k gil in those 30 minutes (which will include gil bonuses from Challenge log entry completion). That's already 360k gil a month versus the 250k suggested as a tax and doesn't touch on how I turn other things earned doing that content (hunt currency and crafter/gatherer scrip) into more gil. Then there's all the other content I play that also rewards gil or things that can be turned into gil.

There's no additional grind needed. You just need to play the game, which is presumably what players are here to do. If the only reason someone logs in is to hang around in Limsa gossiping, then of course they're not going to be earning gil but they don't also need a house if all they do is hang around in Limsa.

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That raises a very good point on what the tax wouldn't really do much to combat multihome ownership or shell FCs as TheMarvin is always attempting to do.

So, either it's a grind or it's far too easy to get that much gil and wouldn't have much impact.

Either way, it's just not a very good idea.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

Dude, 250k a month is nothing. You can get that in a few days. 1 million a month is nothing, you get that in a couple weeks.

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If you got 10 of them it is 2.500.000 per month for a cottage, yes sort of easy to get.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

HELP YOSHIP HEEELP MEEEEE ONLY NEETS SHOULD HAVE HOMES

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lol
lmao even

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You're right that it shouldn't be necessary, but SE created a system where something has to be done due to the limited supply.

So how else do you suggest getting houses back into circulation for those who want one but can't get one?

The game throws money at players for actively participating in content other than PvP and Gold Saucer. A lot of players could help themselves by being smarter about how they're spending the gil they receive. They need to be asking themselves why they're "poor" when other players aren't.


How do any of those numbers represent a grind?

I take 30 minutes per character each week to do 4-5 weekly hunt bills plus 12 Custom Deliveries. I make roughly 90k gil in those 30 minutes (which will include gil bonuses from Challenge log entry completion). That's already 360k gil a month versus the 250k suggested as a tax and doesn't touch on how I turn other things earned doing that content (hunt currency and crafter/gatherer scrip) into more gil. Then there's all the other content I play that also rewards gil or things that can be turned into gil.

There's no additional grind needed. You just need to play the game, which is presumably what players are here to do. If the only reason someone logs in is to hang around in Limsa gossiping, then of course they're not going to be earning gil but they don't also need a house if all they do is hang around in Limsa.

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It could be done by other means as well each house you own more than one on the account cost 1million for small 3millions for medium and 7millions for large per month per additional private house... same roulette for FC's more than 1.

Meaning you go free from any tax if you only got 1 house and max FC owner of 1 FC house.... that sorta make it fair for those that can stay within the limit and would prey upon those that seem to need to have wards and multiple houses cross all regions and the likes.

That way you get to pay to exceed a limit, and it is worth it if you actually run 2 FC's whatever given size with everyone being able to pitch in a small fee.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

How do any of those numbers represent a grind?

I take 30 minutes per character each week to do 4-5 weekly hunt bills plus 12 Custom Deliveries. I make roughly 90k gil in those 30 minutes (which will include gil bonuses from Challenge log entry completion). That's already 360k gil a month versus the 250k suggested as a tax and doesn't touch on how I turn other things earned doing that content (hunt currency and crafter/gatherer scrip) into more gil. Then there's all the other content I play that also rewards gil or things that can be turned into gil.

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Now consider a player that has all the DoL and DoH at level 0 (yes, they arent unlocked!).

And yes, they can be a more dedicated player than one who has all dol/doh at 90. But they arent going to make money this fast. Sure, their houses might have less decorations, but so what? It can be part of their enjoyment to have a very slow build of up decorations. Asking those people to now level up those classes to make more gil is still just a grind (and one they arent likely to do when the odds for a house are horrible).

A gil tax on houses is just bad.

Also, his suggestion also includes 1m for large plots, and while its unlikely to get one. Those who get one shouldnt be forced into a grind.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

It could be done by other means as well each house you own more than one on the account cost 1million for small 3millions for medium and 7millions for large per month per additional private house... same roulette for FC's more than 1.

Meaning you go free from any tax if you only got 1 house and max FC owner of 1 FC house.... that sorta make it fair for those that can stay within the limit and would prey upon those that seem to need to have wards and multiple houses cross all regions and the likes.

That way you get to pay to exceed a limit, and it is worth it if you actually run 2 FC's whatever given size with everyone being able to pitch in a small fee.

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Yes....I feel that this is a rather fair way to implemeny the housing tax.

For those who own only 1 personal and 1 FC, they do not get penalized as this is intended by SE.

Whereas hoarders who exploited loopholes to own more than that or even an entire ward and this depriving other players will have to make a choice whether to give up their property or face a hefty house tax on each additional houses owned on their account beyond the intended limit. Since SE will never take actions to remove these houses from hoarders, this is the next best suggestion I can think of.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

If you got 10 of them it is 2.500.000 per month for a cottage, yes sort of easy to get.

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Dude. You can make a couple million a month from a single fight club sub. And you can have four of them rolling, per shell FC you own or operate. If someone's owning that many houses, they are absolutely going to be running subs out of some of them.

Like, gil is incredibly easy to make even without manipulating market boards. Given that the only gil sinks are minuscule (the most expensive teleport cost is, what, like 2k?), it's pretty much inevitable that someone that participates in the game is going to make tons of gil over time.

Gil will never be the answer to anything here, you have players who are gil capped on multiple accounts, who could buy and pay rent for like half the server and you have new players who struggle to make their first 3mil to afford their small, if those had to pay rent they would be fked fast.

And if you say "well only after the first" you open the door even harder for whales to rule entire wards.

I'm on Marvins side. All power to the Rich that they can buy even more land and down with the poor ones who cant afford the monthly tax. Hail to the Rich.

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Originally Posted by Voidedge_Ragna

And if you say "well only after the first" you open the door even harder for whales to rule entire wards.

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Depends on the scaling though. There are ways to make it nearly impossible to maintain (exponential cost growth).
For example, lets say the first house has no tax, 2nd has 1m, 3rd has 4m (totals 5m), 4th has 16m (totals 21m). It very quickly adds up. And yes, they might be able to still maintain this, but in this case its still just going to be older accounts as new ones still wont be able to buy a 2nd one. It would just punish older house owners.

The ward takeovers are already done using multiple accounts, they arent going to face that tax, especialy when its FC's (because taxing FC houses is just like individuals a stupid idea).

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

Depends on the scaling though. There are ways to make it nearly impossible to maintain (exponential cost growth).
For example, lets say the first house has no tax, 2nd has 1m, 3rd has 4m (totals 5m), 4th has 16m (totals 21m). It very quickly adds up. And yes, they might be able to still maintain this, but in this case its still just going to be older accounts as new ones still wont be able to buy a 2nd one. It would just punish older house owners.

The ward takeovers are already done using multiple accounts, they arent going to face that tax, especialy when its FC's (because taxing FC houses is just like individuals a stupid idea).

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The problem with this is it punishes a very small portion of players. Multihouse ownership is impossible for personal housing anymore and the number of people who own more than one house is infinitesimal at this point and shrinking further over time naturally via attrition. And most of those people own, at most, one extra personal house.

Why everyone is wasting their energies on such a small number of people is beyond me. Why are people so obsessed with what others have rather than push people to get SE to provide housing for everyone?

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

The problem with this is it punishes a very small portion of players. Multihouse ownership is impossible for personal housing anymore and the number of people who own more than one house is infinitesimal at this point and shrinking further over time naturally via attrition. And most of those people own, at most, one extra personal house.

Why everyone is wasting their energies on such a small number of people is beyond me. Why are people so obsessed with what others have rather than push people to get SE to provide housing for everyone?

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It's the cannibalistic behavior that comes with a scarcity of resources and a collapse of society.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

I'm on Marvins side. All power to the Rich that they can buy even more land and down with the poor ones who cant afford the monthly tax. Hail to the Rich.

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This unironically

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

The problem with this is it punishes a very small portion of players. Multihouse ownership is impossible for personal housing anymore and the number of people who own more than one house is infinitesimal at this point and shrinking further over time naturally via attrition. And most of those people own, at most, one extra personal house.

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Those numbers i obviously dont know, and i do agree its not the real issue. Its those that use several accounts for ward takeovers that are a real problem, as thats a lot more for griefing purposes.

Hence i still stand to my point here, tax isnt going to fix the issue. I was just stating that it can be a way to limit those people, but its unlikely anyone is going to get near that state where it will start to realy push them into getting rid of a house (when stocked at 5b gil, even spending 20m per month is going to take 250 months to deplete, at which point the housing crisis should be fixed long ago - if the game is even running at all).

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

Now consider a player that has all the DoL and DoH at level 0 (yes, they arent unlocked!).

And yes, they can be a more dedicated player than one who has all dol/doh at 90. But they arent going to make money this fast. Sure, their houses might have less decorations, but so what? It can be part of their enjoyment to have a very slow build of up decorations. Asking those people to now level up those classes to make more gil is still just a grind (and one they arent likely to do when the odds for a house are horrible).

A gil tax on houses is just bad.

Also, his suggestion also includes 1m for large plots, and while its unlikely to get one. Those who get one shouldnt be forced into a grind.

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1 million on a large is a trivial amount compared to the wealth that players who own larges generate that allowed them to afford the large in the first place. They're still not going to consider it a grind.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

Those numbers i obviously dont know, and i do agree its not the real issue. Its those that use several accounts for ward takeovers that are a real problem, as thats a lot more for griefing purposes.

Hence i still stand to my point here, tax isnt going to fix the issue. I was just stating that it can be a way to limit those people, but its unlikely anyone is going to get near that state where it will start to realy push them into getting rid of a house (when stocked at 5b gil, even spending 20m per month is going to take 250 months to deplete, at which point the housing crisis should be fixed long ago - if the game is even running at all).

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You don't need several accounts to snatch a FC house on each server, just one account.... people that actually pay for 30 accounts should have the same rights as one thay pay for one account.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

people that actually pay for 30 accounts should have the same rights as one thay pay for one account.

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Ah, you are back! I was worried, over the last few days. I had thought someone had kidnapped you and subbed in a more reasonable doppleganger.

We already pay money to play the game- the house was originally tied to the sub- currently, the timers are off

Don't punish the players for a poor system built by the FFXIV team

Ask the XIV to improve it rather than gate keep it even further which is what the the main topic of the thread is suggesting

I get people are tired of how crappy it is trying to get a house, let alone how horrible the decorating system is once you get a house
But stop punching down

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Originally Posted by NyannCat

Isn't this too expensive?
Not really, in my opinion. A small house owner would only have to pay about 300k a month, which is an insignificant amount, while a medium house owner would have to pay about 1.7 mil, and a large house owner would have to pay 5 mil. This is not unreasonable considering the category of those houses. Any active player that can afford a medium house should be able to make at least 1.7 million gil in one month, a large FC could easily collect enough donations for their 5 mil fee.

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Using myself as an example, I'll show why a rental fee does absolutely nothing towards the people its intended to target.

I have approximately 400M gill. 20.4M is 5% of my entire gil count. Do you honestly think I'd even notice that fee? I can make 20M simply flipping Unreal mounts or during first week even patches. In other words, for someone in my position, it's a drop in the bucket. Gil has almost no value in this game. Adding fees won't impact players with hundreds of millions or billions. A good chunk of people stay subbed just to keep their houses. That's actual money they're spending just to keep pixels they don't use. Meanwhile, newer players getting their first house won't have anywhere near that kind of money, and will likely have to give up a house they could have waited years to get.

A rental fee only hurts players who aren't exceedingly wealthy.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Using myself as an example, I'll show why a rental fee does absolutely nothing towards the people its intended to target.

I have approximately 400M gill. 20.4M is 5% of my entire gil count. Do you honestly think I'd even notice that fee? I can make 20M simply flipping Unreal mounts or during first week even patches. In other words, for someone in my position, it's a drop in the bucket. Gil has almost no value in this game. Adding fees won't impact players with hundreds of millions or billions. A good chunk of people stay subbed just to keep their houses. That's actual money they're spending just to keep pixels they don't use. Meanwhile, newer players getting their first house won't have anywhere near that kind of money, and will likely have to give up a house they could have waited years to get.

A rental fee only hurts players who aren't exceedingly wealthy.

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Agreed that the original suggested tax value is too low but could still impact significantly on casual players who only own one plot.

Instead of that, how about exempting housing tax from players who only own 1 personal and 1 FC plot per world as intended by SE own words as I quote "
You may only purchase and maintain one private plot and one free company plot per World per service account".

For any additional plots owned above this limit, they should be heavily taxed at let's say 50% of original plot value per month. That way, it's up to the hoarders to rethink if it's still worth the coat to hoard houses or relinquish them and get back it's original value up to a certain deadline.

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Originally Posted by DeNada

they should be heavily taxed at let's say 50% of original plot value per month.

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It's really not targeted enough. We need to be working on freeing up houses on the busiest server while rewarding people to move to lesser populated ones.

How about on those servers where apartments have run out all houses are taxed at 200% of purchase price per month.
And on servers where there are more than 100 empty plots people are paid a stipend of 200% of purchase price per month.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

How about on those servers where apartments have run out all houses are taxed at 200% of purchase price per month.
And on servers where there are more than 100 empty plots people are paid a stipend of 200% of purchase price per month.

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Yes yes please Shibi you're my idol love this perfect.

My favorite though was putting up all housing for auction every 30 days but this is close real close.

Or how about we stop asking for band-aids (rent, timers, lottery etc) and ask the devs to actually fix the housing system?

I'm amazed at how we've become used to a housing system that is inflexible, cannot cope with large influxes of players and cannot provide enough houses on busy servers. We need to stop accepting this is normal. It's not. Other games manage housing better, there is no reason why player housing in FFXIV has to be the way it is besides sunk-cost fallacy and disinterest from the devs.
While the community is prepared to accept quick fixes that simply throw up a whole new set of issues, that's all we are going to get. Housing doesn't need rent, it needs an overhaul.

It's never going to happen. They would have begun making moves towards instanced housing a long time ago if they were going to do it, given how much work would be involved. Please look forward to, once or twice an expansion, an extra ward or two being added to the lists.

If you want a house, your absolute best option is to wait for a new world or data center to open up and just take the free transfer there. If you aren't willing to do that, then you clearly don't want a house *that* much.