Gladiator lvl 80 challenge

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Originally Posted by EzekielBook

Whoa. I haven't seen people get this angry outside of the WoW forums in a long time.

I hear people saying how the DF dungeons are really easy, about how healers get bored with very little to do, about how it's all rush-rush-rush. And then someone chooses a perfectly legal in-game path, one that makes life a little more interesting for them, while not being too far out of line for anyone else, and people are jumping on them.

There are enough players in the game that you'll likely never encounter someone else doing this. Surely you can cut the one person who does do it a little slack?

Besides, the Paladin story line is not fun (to say the least). If there were a class where you would want to skip it, that'd be it.

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I mean, as someone who has never, ever tanked before in a game before the Paladin I got to 50 today, I'd just like to say the OP really missed out, lol. PLD's story has obviously more effort in there (at least from 30-50), nothing at all felt to be there in GLD TBH. Not to say they're literature award-winning ones, OFC.

And, I mean sure, people on the forums find DF easy. But given my own experience of lower leveling dungeons, there has been a wealth of Scholars spamming Physick, not using Aetherflow, no use of faerie CDs, and precast Adlos that snatch aggro at the start of pulls towards the healer. My health bounces from topped off for multiple minutes all down to less than half most of the time. I'm able to not be a total sponge and am able to account for the gaps in skill of healers mostly because of being a PLD with Sheltron and some measure of damage.

It's "legal", yes. Is it fun for anyone else but the GLD expecting everyone else to do better and above for them, no. You should try tanking Bardam's Mettle without your job stone and see how that fares, lol. /shrug

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Originally Posted by EzekielBook

There are enough players in the game that you'll likely never encounter someone else doing this. Surely you can cut the one person who does do it a little slack?

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Give one person a free pass and more will appear.

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Originally Posted by EzekielBook

Besides, the Paladin story line is not fun (to say the least). If there were a class where you would want to skip it, that'd be it.

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Good news! There's actually a feature that lets you skip a story you hate! It's called pressing esc to skip the cutscenes, and you can even mash through dialogue!

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Originally Posted by EzekielBook

Whoa. I haven't seen people get this angry outside of the WoW forums in a long time.

I hear people saying how the DF dungeons are really easy, about how healers get bored with very little to do, about how it's all rush-rush-rush. And then someone chooses a perfectly legal in-game path, one that makes life a little more interesting for them, while not being too far out of line for anyone else, and people are jumping on them.

There are enough players in the game that you'll likely never encounter someone else doing this. Surely you can cut the one person who does do it a little slack?

Besides, the Paladin story line is not fun (to say the least). If there were a class where you would want to skip it, that'd be it.

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But why? There's no reason to cut them any slack. This is not someone who missed jobs being a thing. This is deliberatly contributing less and parading it "challenge" when they themselves are not even the person who is experiencing anything challenging. Dungeons are easy and smooth when everyone contributes, this person here is just out there wasting time.

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Originally Posted by NyantaMeowster

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I salute you for reaching lvl80 as GLA. I did once a similar thing as CNJ (only took off the Jobstone and did all Dungeons one after another up to most current one) at lv80.

I met with quite a good number of angry Stans worrying about me not being able to perform correctly as a Healer, despite keeping the Tank alive on any pulling magnitute and them only realizing it mostly during the first Boss on average.

The goal of this was for me, to answer the question "is CNJ good enough to heal all Dungeon content?". And the answer i found, was a Yes, it is able to, if you frequently make good use of rescue.

Also, to all the People thinking that this is griefing: it is not. Griefing means that someone sabotages intentionally your experience by preventing progress, which clearly isnt OPs intention. Since Squeenix judges by context, YOU could get banned instead along with the people abusing the votekick system for not only harassment, but also abuse of said system.

So get your facts right first, before youre starting to point fingers at people.

Leaving the questionable methods aside, now I'm kinda curious how far can you go with a full party of players without job stones, like, can you beat extremes? savage fights? (I guess you couldn't meet the dps checks)

yeah, thats the solution: do all dungeons with a full group without job stone. that way you wont force your experiment on other random people. and it may be an actual challenge.

If you are level 35 or above and do not have a job stone equipped, I will vote to have you kicked every single time before budging from the entrance. It's not that the duty cannot be cleared without a job stone, it is the principle that this behavior needs to be nipped early on. You may not think it's a big deal, but you're wasting everybody else's time. It would be like purposefully driving 30mph on the highway when the speed limit is 65.

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Originally Posted by EzekielBook

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A self-inflicted challenge that you have to apply to a group is at best a severe hinderance. At worst it's flat out griefing.

If you want to challenge yourself, fantastic: Do a Dark Souls no hit run. Beat Doom with only the pistol. How you spend your time is on you but I think it's extremely disrespectful to impact my time for your 'challenge'. I didn't sign up for it. I'm trying to get tomestones or something.

RP wise I play Ferra as a Pugilist, especially since there is lore that shows that Puggies can do things that Monks cannot. However I would not want to subject others (and especially myself, I lose SO MUCH utility and DPS) the torment of actually playing the class and impacting DPS checks.

You can play however you want. If it's impacting others who play, however, you best be ready to embrace the consequences of it.

The last character I leveled, I challenged myself to get to 80 on all jobs with no soul stone.

And I did it.

With a mixture of PotD, HoH with friends that knew my plan, occasionally dungeons with those same friends, Squadrons, and Trusts.

Because I respect other people and their time.

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Originally Posted by NyantaMeowster

Now I have few words for people, who get offended by me playing my way. Please understand that I have same rights to play my game any way I want to. It is not up to you to judge what I can or cannot do in game.
I can understand you may think you are right and that you may think it is unwise to not play the most efficient way, but it is not your place to force me or anybody else to play the way you want me or anyone else to play.

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“It’s okay when I inconvenience you but it’s not okay when you inconvenience me.”

That’s what you sound like.

(I like how they haven’t replied since their original posts. I bet they expected a bunch of congratulations)

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Originally Posted by FatalFatalis

Leaving the questionable methods aside, now I'm kinda curious how far can you go with a full party of players without job stones, like, can you beat extremes? savage fights? (I guess you couldn't meet the dps checks)

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it wont much. Rememeber we lost the cross class system. you are loosing half your kit. All you going to have all the skills up to 50.

Class-only was more usable back in HW days before they basically removed the cross-class system, like Conjurer could get flash and raging strikes things. Gladiator could cross-class Raise, but it wouldn't work in-battle because they didn't have the trait like CNJ has. so there was some framework to prevent weird cross-classing. But then in SB they moved to role actions. Which meant you didn't have to level THM to 26 to get Swiftcast to cross-class on your healers for-example, it now comes included out of the gate.

I think my favorite one in the day was that JP group that did A12S with no job stones and no echo when it was relevant and that was a fun watch.

If anything they kept some class framework in the game to prevent spending a ton of hours re-doing the whole system with the old ARR jobs.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

I salute you for reaching lvl80 as GLA. I did once a similar thing as CNJ (only took off the Jobstone and did all Dungeons one after another up to most current one) at lv80.

I met with quite a good number of angry Stans worrying about me not being able to perform correctly as a Healer, despite keeping the Tank alive on any pulling magnitute and them only realizing it mostly during the first Boss on average.

The goal of this was for me, to answer the question "is CNJ good enough to heal all Dungeon content?". And the answer i found, was a Yes, it is able to, if you frequently make good use of rescue.

Also, to all the People thinking that this is griefing: it is not. Griefing means that someone sabotages intentionally your experience by preventing progress, which clearly isnt OPs intention. Since Squeenix judges by context, YOU could get banned instead along with the people abusing the votekick system for not only harassment, but also abuse of said system.

So get your facts right first, before youre starting to point fingers at people.

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You are definitely making the run take much longer and you are doing so fully intentionally. That is sabotage, regardless of how much you need to convince yourself of the opposite.

started with the first tank job in arr with Gladiator it was a fun ride then moved on to pld learned the rotations and did all the job quests capped off job and moved on to next tank before long all were done and i got a feet of each job and its actions my favorite being gunbreaker.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

You are definitely making the run take much longer and you are doing so fully intentionally. That is sabotage, regardless of how much you need to convince yourself of the opposite.

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Also it's just a straight up lie they can handle any pulling magnitude. Pull to the wall in Bardam's and even a level sync'd tank using their cooldowns properly will be dead if all you're doing is cure II spam. Sure they could pop their invuln and probably make it through... for the first pull, but then they'll either need to slow down for the next pack or die.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

If you are level 35 or above and do not have a job stone equipped, I will vote to have you kicked every single time before budging from the entrance. It's not that the duty cannot be cleared without a job stone, it is the principle that this behavior needs to be nipped early on. You may not think it's a big deal, but you're wasting everybody else's time. It would be like purposefully driving 30mph on the highway when the speed limit is 65.

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Wait. Wait. Wait.

Complaining about wasting everyone's time but intentionally holding up the party at the entrance so you can votekick when you don't even bother seeing how things will go? Do you not see the hypocrisy here?

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Originally Posted by Saraide

You are definitely making the run take much longer and you are doing so fully intentionally. That is sabotage, regardless of how much you need to convince yourself of the opposite.

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If your logic were to be considered true, then anyone who isnt doing optimal dps would be considered a criminal who sabotages the game for others, since they are wasting precious seconds of my life.

In all seriousness, as long as it works and it gets the job done, why would anyone sane care if a bossfight takes 5 Minutes or 6 1/2 Minutes? If you consider things like that a waste of time, then you should maybe re-evaluate your priorities in video games and what makes them fun to you in the first place.

I have so many questions but I will settle with asking just one.

Why?

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Originally Posted by Anhra

If your logic were to be considered true, then anyone who isnt doing optimal dps would be considered a criminal who sabotages the game for others, since they are wasting precious seconds of my life.

In all seriousness, as long as it works and it gets the job done, why would anyone sane care if a bossfight takes 5 Minutes or 6 1/2 Minutes? If you consider things like that a waste of time, then you should maybe re-evaluate your priorities in video games and what makes them fun to you in the first place.

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I cant believe I have to say this but intent matters. Someone not playing their job well is understandable, someone intentionally grinding pace to a crawl is sabotaging. We're not just talking about losing a minute or two. In many cases your healer can have the highest trash mob dps because healer aoe is cracked.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

I cant believe I have to say this but intent matters. Someone not playing their job well is understandable, someone intentionally grinding pace to a crawl is sabotaging. We're not just talking about losing a minute or two. In many cases your healer can have the highest trash mob dps because healer aoe is cracked.

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No, it isnt as bad as you make it sound. Single target damage is still reasonable and any clear times i had, werent longer than 5 Min above the average run, and yes, it is possible for CNJ to keep a tank alive during mass pulls.

Before you critisize something as sabotaging, get your facts first and see for yourself. I am certain that you havent even experienced such a run yet, or else you wouldnt ve spouting such nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

No, it isnt as bad as you make it sound. Single target damage is still reasonable and any clear times i had, werent longer than 5 Min above the average run, and yes, it is possible for CNJ to keep a tank alive during mass pulls.

Before you critisize something as sabotaging, get your facts first and see for yourself. I am certain that you havent even experienced such a run yet, or else you wouldnt ve spouting such nonsense.

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I have played with low dps healers and it is 100% a slog. And since in OP's case it's intentionally self gimping, it's also intentionally sabotaging. For healers even more so because of how strong healer aoe is. Since you are so quick to assuming, I bet you have never played with a healer who is actually good at the game and does damage. Trash mobs melt so much quicker (which are the enemies that actually matter btw in case you didnt know).

I have 0 problems with the no job stone PFs attempting to do whatever content but if you do that in DF you're just telling other people to carry you because you cant be bothered to contribute. Dungeons being easy content is no excuse to disrespect the people you get matched up with.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

I have played with low dps healers and it is 100% a slog. And since in OP's case it's intentionally self gimping, it's also intentionally sabotaging. For healers even more so because of how strong healer aoe is. Since you are so quick to assuming, I bet you have never played with a healer who is actually good at the game and does damage. Trash mobs melt so much quicker (which are the enemies that actually matter btw in case you didnt know).

I have 0 problems with the no job stone PFs attempting to do whatever content but if you do that in DF you're just telling other people to carry you because you cant be bothered to contribute. Dungeons being easy content is no excuse to disrespect the people you get matched up with.

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A Healer has only 3 Rules he always has to abide to, anything else, is secondary, like it or not, the Rules are (sorted by importance):
1: Dont die.
2: Position yourself always correctly
3: Keep your Party alive trough Healing.

Anything outside of those Rules, are secondary in nature of any healer in any MMORPG. As mentioned already, Healing is quite potent in this game, to the point that a CNJ and a GLA are more than enough to clear Dungeon content. The point in doing so, is not for "sabotage" reasons, but to make a point.

And the point is, that Dungeons are too easy. So stop getting upset about trivial things because i sure wont stop doing so just for your sake. As long as i play to the best of my abilities, even when it is restricted, is in no form or shape griefing.

I think I’d be mostly curious if we could clear the dungeon when us other three unequip our stone too, and give it a go lol. For science, and all that.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

A Healer has only 3 Rules he always has to abide to, anything else, is secondary, like it or not, the Rules are (sorted by importance):
1: Dont die.
2: Position yourself always correctly
3: Keep your Party alive trough Healing.

Anything outside of those Rules, are secondary in nature of any healer in any MMORPG. As mentioned already, Healing is quite potent in this game, to the point that a CNJ and a GLA are more than enough to clear Dungeon content. The point in doing so, is not for "sabotage" reasons, but to make a point.

And the point is, that Dungeons are too easy. So stop getting upset about trivial things because i sure wont stop doing so just for your sake. As long as i play to the best of my abilities, even when it is restricted, is in no form or shape griefing.

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Except the game is designed around healers doing damage but sure: keep trying to convince yourself you're not a liability to the party or that what you are doing is actually skillfull. You're RP'ing as someone bad at the game, nothing more. There is no skill in just having way less tools and having to rely on curebotting.

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Originally Posted by Nishira

I think I’d be mostly curious if we could clear the dungeon when us other three unequip our stone too, and give it a go lol. For science, and all that.

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I did this once with my group of friend. Our compo consist of MRD, CNJ (me), ACN and THM. Dungeons that are faceroll by nature such as most capstone dungeon remains... faceroll, despite being slower at everything. Hard hitting dungeons like Bardam has to be handled with care. Still doable nonetheless. Evidently we assigned ACN and THM because they seem to be the only two of basic jobs equipped better to handle AoE situation; the (ironically) most threatening part of any dungeon runs. I sub in few ethers to help myself in hard hitting dungeons. Tank picked MRD instead of GLD because MRD has a built-in HP recovery on their 1-2-3. They coupled this with dozen of super potions, too.

Can this be done with other job compositions? Maybe, but we're definitely not looking forward to try it lol. I, for one, definitely not missing no-AoE healer...

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I did this once with my group of friend. Our compo consist of MRD, CNJ (me), ACN and THM. Dungeons that are faceroll by nature such as most capstone dungeon remains... faceroll, despite being slower at everything. Hard hitting dungeons like Bardam has to be handled with care. Still doable nonetheless.

I'm definitely not missing no-AoE healer though...

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Yeah when I think of all the spells I’d miss, I cry a little on the inside :D And that pretty much matches what I’d expect. Sleep might see a use, wooo! I may have to try it some time if my partner and I bump into two dps insane enough to give it a go for (slow and painful) fun. I’d not spring it in two unsuspecting dps in DF tho haha, don’t panic if you bump into me.

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Originally Posted by Nishira

Yeah when I think of all the spells I’d miss, I cry a little on the inside :D And that pretty much matches what I’d expect. Sleep might see a use, wooo! I may have to try it some time if my partner and I bump into two dps insane enough to give it a go for (slow and painful) fun. I’d not spring it in two unsuspecting dps in DF tho haha, don’t panic if you bump into me.

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Yeah, it is why we did it with a premade. We wouldn't want to subject unsuspecting pugs with the potential pain train lol.

I do this with my friends fairly often it is possible and it is not as detrimental people make it out to be. Though it can be a special kind of pain.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Wait. Wait. Wait.

Complaining about wasting everyone's time but intentionally holding up the party at the entrance so you can votekick when you don't even bother seeing how things will go? Do you not see the hypocrisy here?

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there is a difference between making sure that an active griefer and troll like the OP is kicked and being a hindrance themselves, which, in my eyes, the person you quoted isn't
then again, you yourself said in an earlier post that you'd happily enable the griefing, so I'm already speaking to a wall

People in Duty Finder are really nice please don't abuse their generosity <3

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Originally Posted by Anhra

A Healer has only 3 Rules he always has to abide to, anything else, is secondary, like it or not, the Rules are (sorted by importance):
1: Dont die.
2: Position yourself always correctly
3: Keep your Party alive trough Healing.

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Actually, healers have to abide by these 3 rules I also just completely arbitrarily invented:

1. Shoot lasers from their eyes
2. Be invincible
3. Fly at supersonic speeds

Edit: Seriously though, do people take pride in being the person that causes other people to say "Boy, am I glad I'm out of that dungeon and probably won't see that person again!". Why not strive to be an actually desirable teammate and maybe make some friends along the way? What's so appealing about making other players want to avoid you?

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Actually, healers have to abide by these 3 rules I also just completely arbitrarily invented:

1. Shoot lasers from their eyes
2. Be invincible
3. Fly at supersonic speeds

Edit: Seriously though, do people take pride in being the person that causes other people to say "Boy, am I glad I'm out of that dungeon and probably won't see that person again!". Why not strive to be an actually desirable teammate and maybe make some friends along the way? What's so appealing about making other players want to avoid you?

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The Knowledge and feel of superiority that i am capable of clearing Dungeon Content as CNJ where others struggle to keep things up as WHM/SCH/AST.

But the main reason for that, was and is, to gain a deeper understanding about the limits of Healing capabilities in this Game, so that i can shitpost in these Forums more efficiently about how badly designed healers are and that a mere CNJ has by design, more than enough healing capabilities. I might have to give trials a run next with a partner in crime.

There was a time when playing as a gladiator was not an entirely unreasonable thing to do. Back in ARR I would actually go gladiator to dungeons with pre-made groups from my FC because at the time it meant I had access to death blossom from rouge where I would otherwise have no AoE dps abilities (gladiator only had access to flash, a non-damaging AoE enmity skill). The only things you lost access to back then was sword oath, shield oath, cover, spirits within and hallowed ground. Hallowed and shield oath were kind of a big loss but with proper cooldown usage (gladiator had access to a lot more fluff cooldowns back then) you could make up for it while the occasional flash was more than enough to make up for the lack of shield oath. For bosses you only had your rage of halone combo back then so enmity wasn’t an issue and you gained access to a lot more burst damage from cross class cooldowns to make up for the loss of sword oath and spirits within. Basically back then you were giving up a bit of defence to boost your offence.

I was an early adopter of the idea that tanks could dish out decent damage if you let them, I’d tank in sword oath, I used STR accs and there were times I’d get flak for that but there were also times where people would praise the fact I was out dpsing some of the dps. These were the kind of things that actually made things more challenging but came with a benefit of faster dps if you could do it right and eventually became the meta.

But those days have long since gone. Classes have been left so far in the dust there is absolutely no reason to be one past level 30. Not only do you not gain anything for it since the cross class system is a thing of the past so you’re just giving up having access to a bunch of abilities past level 30, but even your stats are gimped, so before you even take abilities into consideration you’re already weaker than a PLD.

There is no pride in playing the game as a class. You are just gimping yourself for no reason. It’s no different to saying you beat the game using only fast blade or while playing without a shield equipped. There’s no benefit, you’re just handicapping yourself and your group.

Heh, this reminds me that between recordings for my FFXIV Let's Play, I leveled PLD. I stayed on Gladiator longer than I otherwise would have, because I knew it wouldn't take to long to get to 50 even as Gladiator and just get pretty much all of the PLD quests in, in one recording.

I stilled used Leveling Roulette about three times above level 30 with dungeons that you could be 30+ in, in spite of mostly using Squadron dungeons. Literally in all three of those roulettes, and in the guildhest roulettes on the same day, I got criticized for still being a Gladiator lol. In spite of being more active in the content than the other people, and even in spite of one time being criticized by another person without a job stone lmao.

Sounds implausible to me that OP was only called out for it and kicked once.

Also leveling isn't really a challenge in this game. You can just use any method that gives EXP. Some will be slower than others, but this game doesn't really have a leveling grind. I come from 2004 era FFXI. Don't @ me. Etc.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

The Knowledge and feel of superiority that i am capable of clearing Dungeon Content as CNJ where others struggle to keep things up as WHM/SCH/AST.

But the main reason for that, was and is, to gain a deeper understanding about the limits of Healing capabilities in this Game, so that i can shitpost in these Forums more efficiently about how badly designed healers are and that a mere CNJ has by design, more than enough healing capabilities. I might have to give trials a run next with a partner in crime.

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The knowledge and feel of superiority!

https://psmag.com/.image/t_share/MTI...n-laughter.jpg

I did almost the same: new character, new datacenter, only conjurer.
Aaaaaand.. You cant progress in MSQ on some point at level 80.

https://i.redd.it/2ynsx0tuhav71.png

It just locks you on this state

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Originally Posted by Remolia

I did almost the same: new character, new datacenter, only conjurer.
Aaaaaand.. You cant progress in MSQ on some point at level 80.

https://i.redd.it/2ynsx0tuhav71.png

It just locks you on this state

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GOOD. Intentionally queueing with randos without your job crystal after Haukke Manor is griefing.

Just a curious question for anyone doing this: do you at least try to use trusts whenever you can? The only story dungeons/trials you can't use trusts for currently are in Stormblood. Surely mighty challengers like yourselves would want to make sure that you get the full extent of your challenge by making sure that random skillful players can't do most of the heavy lifting for you in dungeons and trials.

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Originally Posted by SnowVix

GOOD. Intentionally queueing with randos without your job crystal after Haukke Manor is griefing.

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but its not hard to bypass anyway, since u can level up second job from level 70 or just buy MSQ skip

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Just a curious question for anyone doing this: do you at least try to use trusts whenever you can? The only story dungeons/trials you can't use trusts for currently are in Stormblood. Surely mighty challengers like yourselves would want to make sure that you get the full extent of your challenge by making sure that random skillful players can't do most of the heavy lifting for you in dungeons and trials.

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Well, they would if they were actually interested in some sort of challenge. In reality all class only does is lower the skill ceiling.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Well, they would if they were actually interested in some sort of challenge. In reality all class only does is lower the skill ceiling.

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For challenge u can go grind something, or go pvp, savages, solo stuff and etc.
This one is more about "curiosity", just to check out how it even works.
I play conjurer in Normals, coz I like how it works: mana management, gear tweaks (piety), additional assist macros for targeting and stuff, food buffs and potions, focusing more on other players locations and movings and etc.
Most healers dont even use Rescue when they can, some healers misuse half of their skills, some of them dont even borther about gear melds and food buffs, but nobody complains about that, guess why? Coz its Casual content (Normal Duty Finder), where people are just having fun or getting used to game.