What's the Healer rush?

I seriously need to stop coming to the forums. otherwise I'll soon believe the number of jerkfaces I am likely to run into in game is far higher than the number of decent people without a huge level of impatience

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

I seriously need to stop coming to the forums. otherwise I'll soon believe the number of jerkfaces I am likely to run into in game is far higher than the number of decent people without a huge level of impatience

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Yeah, the forums tend to greatly exaggerate most situations. Most of the community is usually quite pleasant, though it's not without some rather...unique individuals.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

I seriously need to stop coming to the forums. otherwise I'll soon believe the number of jerkfaces I am likely to run into in game is far higher than the number of decent people without a huge level of impatience

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Yo true, I've yet to see a "you pull you tank" griefer in game but the forum/reddit make me think they are everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

Why is everyone so scared of dying in a game? Fucking press w until you die or the game forces you to stop, solve problems when they actually become a problem don't make problems up in your head.

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+
Applies both IRL and in game.
When I play tank, I'll pull big mob and stop it only if the healer cannot catch up and I got KO or near death.

Why near death? When I play healer I also dislike it when tank is close to KO :(

I have yet to see a convincing argument as to why I should enable a tank to go slow or match their pace if it's going to drag the instance to 30 minutes. If someone is new then a minimum of 2 packs is safe enough to be comfortable and for me to not be bored out of my mind, and we'll still clear in under 15 usually. I will not enable new players to develop bad tanking habits if I encounter one in a party because that is the equivalent of kicking a can down the road for someone else to deal with.

If they cannot adapt, then I leave because I am under no obligation to carry someone who is either unwilling to improve their gameplay or too clueless to do so.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I have yet to see a convincing argument as to why I should enable a tank to go slow or match their pace if it's going to drag the instance to 30 minutes. If someone is new then a minimum of 2 packs is safe enough to be comfortable and for me to not be bored out of my mind, and we'll still clear in under 15 usually. I will not enable new players to develop bad tanking habits if I encounter one in a party because that is the equivalent of kicking a can down the road for someone else to deal with.

If they cannot adapt, then I leave because I am under no obligation to carry someone who is either unwilling to improve their gameplay or too clueless to do so.

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Being a tank main I can control the pace so it's largely a non issue. I've never had any complaints about my wall to wall pulling. As a dps or even as a healer (hypothetically, I hate healing so hard pass!) I would simply go with the flow. Sometimes the flow of a dungeon isn't as fast as I would prefer it to be, but as long as the dungeon gets cleared it's fine. A little bit of patience goes a long way. It's also the risk one takes when queueing up via the DF. The dungeons aren't the only random happenings in a roulette. There is also random people with varying skill levels. Once people can accept these facts the DF life will be a lot better for everyone. People need to chill. Can it be frustrating? Sure, I'm not contesting that. But I think it's best to not be a jerk above all else.

Inside every tank player there are two wolves; one longs for 3.0 Dark Knight, and the other either single pulls in expert dungeons, or complains about other players doing the same.

Sometimes Hrothgar players have a third wolf inside them, but for different reasons.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Being a tank main I can control the pace so it's largely a non issue. I've never had any complaints about my wall to wall pulling. As a dps or even as a healer (hypothetically, I hate healing so hard pass!) I would simply go with the flow. Sometimes the flow of a dungeon isn't as fast as I would prefer it to be, but as long as the dungeon gets cleared it's fine. A little bit of patience goes a long way. It's also the risk one takes when queueing up via the DF. The dungeons aren't the only random happenings in a roulette. There is also random people with varying skill levels. Once people can accept these facts the DF life will be a lot better for everyone. People need to chill. Can it be frustrating? Sure, I'm not contesting that. But I think it's best to not be a jerk above all else.

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It's so much easier as a dps to not mind 1 pack pulls. You have a full rotation, it's equivalent to hitting a striking dummy and building muscle memory and being rewarded for it.

Having to single target enemies as a healer is honestly annoying and if we're only pulling 1 pack, extremely boring. I have a 2 button dps rotation with MAYBE 1 offensive oGCD.
I don't even ask for bigger pulls, if we're single pulling all the way to the first boss I'll just leave.
Sometimes I just spam holy on two targets to see if anyone will start some shit about how I should be single targeting, when this tank can't press w.

As a healer, if the tanks taking low enough damage I am not pressed and just spamming my dumb aoe, I will ask them to pull more. Its not just a faster dungeon, its much less boring for me :) I find most people aren't rude about it, but healers will be the ones to ask because dungeons are very boring for them.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

https://i.redd.it/i9qbf19qdz651.png

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LMAO! That is so funny!

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I have yet to see a convincing argument as to why I should enable a tank to go slow or match their pace if it's going to drag the instance to 30 minutes. If someone is new then a minimum of 2 packs is safe enough to be comfortable and for me to not be bored out of my mind, and we'll still clear in under 15 usually. I will not enable new players to develop bad tanking habits if I encounter one in a party because that is the equivalent of kicking a can down the road for someone else to deal with.

If they cannot adapt, then I leave because I am under no obligation to carry someone who is either unwilling to improve their gameplay or too clueless to do so.

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I've encountered plenty of single pull tanks in my levelling so far and only once did a run actually last 30 mins. It was a combinaison of other factors, such as the dps being significantly below average and the group being new to the dungeon. They wanted explanations before bosses so I gladly obliged. Single pulling with decent dps adds a few mins to the run at most.

If that's still not good enough for you, it's your right to leave and take the leaver penalty. I'm not going to waste time convincing you to be a better person, you've already made your choice.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I have yet to see a convincing argument as to why I should enable a tank to go slow or match their pace if it's going to drag the instance to 30 minutes. If someone is new then a minimum of 2 packs is safe enough to be comfortable and for me to not be bored out of my mind, and we'll still clear in under 15 usually. I will not enable new players to develop bad tanking habits if I encounter one in a party because that is the equivalent of kicking a can down the road for someone else to deal with.

If they cannot adapt, then I leave because I am under no obligation to carry someone who is either unwilling to improve their gameplay or too clueless to do so.

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We have dungeons the take 30min? I've only got to late-SB so I really have no idea.
If it takes that long, maybe we have other issues in addition to tank single pulling.
Most probably the DDs were massively undergeared.

I've also seen healers who simply has internet issues and the tank had to calculate the risk.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

It's so much easier as a dps to not mind 1 pack pulls. You have a full rotation, it's equivalent to hitting a striking dummy and building muscle memory and being rewarded for it.

Having to single target enemies as a healer is honestly annoying and if we're only pulling 1 pack, extremely boring. I have a 2 button dps rotation with MAYBE 1 offensive oGCD.
I don't even ask for bigger pulls, if we're single pulling all the way to the first boss I'll just leave.
Sometimes I just spam holy on two targets to see if anyone will start some shit about how I should be single targeting, when this tank can't press w.

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And I've seen things go just as fast, if not faster with good dps while a tank does single pulls. It all depends on the group, mainly the dps, even with wall to wall pulls. I've done wall to wall pulls personally before and things took FOREVER to die because the dps was so low. It was probably faster to just pull one or 2 groups at a time. Regardless, it is your choice to leave if you aren't getting what enjoyment you are looking for. I think it's a bit petty, but everyone's got different opinions.

Yes, a tank who does not know their job can drag out dungeons to 30 minutes especially if they don't have a clue what they are doing by the time they get to Shadowbringers content. I would much rather take the penalty for leaving than carry a player who cannot learn how to tank especially now that it's been made far simpler than how it was before pre-5.0. Enmity rotations? Gone. Flash? Gone. Tank stance dancing? Also gone. All they need to do is press their aoe button and not throw a fit when someone pulls ahead.

In the 30 minutes of downtime while waiting to get into the next instance, there's quite a lot more productive things I can do. Making coffee biscuits (120k gil per day plus whatever else I sell on the MB), crafted glams/weapons, gathering, beast tribe quests, Gold Saucer, fate grinds for relics, etc. So, in the end there is still no reasonable argument in favour of slow tanks. If they play properly there will be no issues. If they play badly then don't expect me or any other healers to carry them for free.

30 min is BS, sorry. Just pure hyperbole.

When I heal, and the tank goes wall to wall, but the DPS can't get stuff killed in time, eventually, I'll run out of mana/instants, too, especially when coupled with a rather weak tank.
A group consists of four players, not the one bored guy who's been around for longer than is good for one's psyche.

If a dps does not know their aoe rotation that's usually an easy fix since they're not that complex for the most part, assuming they listen. If they do not, then just as I have no desire to carry a tank who cannot perform their role correctly I'm certainly not going to carry a dps who doesn't know how to aoe either.

Because healingt is super boring when the tank only pulls one mob at a time. A healer running ahead says to you "Maybe I should stop stopping for every mob" Monster jobs have really fun aoe rotations and you not pulling large groups is just lame and boring.

I'm not a fan of the rushing thing, usually it's because I'm on a caster and can't do anything. Then the tank has an army of mobs, healer can't keep up, and we wipe. By that stage I'm RP walking behind them because there is little to no point worrying about anything.

When I'm on my Red Mage I seem to heal more healers than doing damage a lot of the time. I've also noticed healers have a lot of problems with healing DPS. I generally consider them bad players and do what I can to stay alive, alt tab out and watch youtube while I wait for the rez if needed (they usually fail at even doing that most times).

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Originally Posted by ArmaDragkun

Firstly let me say I've come from WoW so I'm used to a M+ environment where it's all about killing everything as fast as you can chain pulling ect

However when I came to FF and did dungeons almost everyone has been ok at the speed I go through a dungeon at (I'm a warrior) I say almost because on the few occasions that I've had someone in my group who has been the "go go go" guy it's always a healer.

So why is it with healers you're in such a god damn rush?

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It's pretty simple, really. We need that pull size to feel like our role has a reason to exist.

He probably died because he was being stubborn and not following and standing with a pack of 3 mobs while everyone else ran ahead.

Maybe you should aoe dps and stop casting vercure? The tank prolly dying because the rdm is rp walking behind casting vercure and everything lives past the CDs

Goood /vote kick offline get a new tank since heals have zero queue time.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

Maybe you should aoe dps and stop casting vercure? The tank prolly dying because the rdm is rp walking behind casting vercure and everything lives past the CDs

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So I should let the healer die, so the tank can die, and in turn wipe the group? Great logic!

Redmage is only doing that after half a dungeon of never being able to run within range and cast ANYTHING.

You really should stop and think.

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Originally Posted by AlyaNimfa

You really should stop and think.

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Now, now, let's not have unreasonable expectations. ;)

Are some of y’all really out here calling people toxic for leaving a dungeon where they’re being trapped for 30 minutes as a healer casting single-target into a pack of 2 or 3?

Maybe 30 minutes is an exaggeration for most dungeons, but 20-25 minutes is definitely within the realm of possibility.

Some people value their mental health over being nice. Leave duty is a valid option and we shouldn’t be judging people for using it for any reason. After all, there is a penalty of 30 minutes.

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Originally Posted by AlyaNimfa

So I should let the healer die, so the tank can die, and in turn wipe the group? Great logic!

Redmage is only doing that after half a dungeon of never being able to run within range and cast ANYTHING.

You really should stop and think.

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The way you worded it you acted like it was a common experience, in the what 5 years ive played ive seen this happen like once, so I am going to assume you were probably at fault.

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Originally Posted by EmpyreanHelios

Some people value their mental health over being nice

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Maybe don't play a MMO then? A game with other players is innately social, whether there's chat going on or not.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

The way you worded it you acted like it was a common experience, in the what 5 years ive played ive seen this happen like once, so I am going to assume you were probably at fault.

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Unless of course you are getting tanks that don't aoe at all leading to everyone pulling hate which I talk about in another thread.

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

Maybe don't play a MMO then? A game with other players is innately social, whether there's chat going on or not.

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Maybe you shouldn't play an mmo if you think your one tank experience should trump the experience of three other people in the group?

Maybe don't play tank if you can't take the dps and healers wnating to go faster.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

Maybe you shouldn't play an mmo if you think your one tank experience should trump the experience of three other people in the group?

Maybe don't play tank if you can't take the dps and healers wnating to go faster.

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Go outside andy.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

Maybe you shouldn't play an mmo if you think your one tank experience should trump the experience of three other people in the group?

Maybe don't play tank if you can't take the dps and healers wnating to go faster.

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Or maybe, just maybe, there could be some sort of understanding that the DF is going to be random all the way around. It is not going to be a pleasant experience 100% of the time, though one's standards on what is considered "pleasant" may vary. So, people can either deal with that fact or don't queue at all. I'd be okay with some people not queueing, personally. It's less drama that I have to see, not that I see much to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

30 min is BS, sorry. Just pure hyperbole.

When I heal, and the tank goes wall to wall, but the DPS can't get stuff killed in time, eventually, I'll run out of mana/instants, too, especially when coupled with a rather weak tank.
A group consists of four players, not the one bored guy who's been around for longer than is good for one's psyche.

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Tbh if it's that bad even more reason to simply leave imo. The only healer that should run out of resources (when played properly) with simple 2-3 pack wall2wall pulls is SCH simply because they have the worst mana efficiency to GCD unless they crit.
Now if you're talking about the big boi pulls similar to Shisui of the Violet Tides where you go for the 4-5 pull yeah you need a preem team for that.

Otherwise regardless of gear or dps as long as the healer knows how to keep the tank targeted, use their GCDs, and use lucid on CD, it'll be fine.
Unless there's a situation like in Satasha where half the tanks gear is New Emperor's armor and you need to make a macro for healing them x15 in a row because single packs do 1/3rd their hp in one tic of damage.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

Maybe you shouldn't play an mmo if you think your one tank experience should trump the experience of three other people in the group?

Maybe don't play tank if you can't take the dps and healers wnating to go faster.

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What do you mean? I'm having a hard time understanding what you say.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

That's called 'you pull it, you tank it', perhaps you should stop volunteering to do the tanks job by pulling ahead.. because yes, you are going to get tanks who will happily let you try your hand at being a green tank.

Also, 'ego that needs a reality check', coming from a healer who will pull and dump it on the tank? Pot calling the kettle black?

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This basically never comes up, but on the off chance it did, it would be trivial for the healer to keep themself and a tank up against 2 packs and I would absolutely vote kick the tank in this made up scenario. Do your job tank, it's the piss easiest role in the game.

In actuality, I will say please pull more and either they do or they don't and that's life. Can't win em all. Honestly, most tanks will pull right regardless, the only place this is not the case is 567 roulette which is the land of the single pullers and I will always queue for that as a tank when I need the poes for something just to not have to put up with it.

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Originally Posted by ArmaDragkun

Firstly let me say I've come from WoW so I'm used to a M+ environment where it's all about killing everything as fast as you can chain pulling ect

However when I came to FF and did dungeons almost everyone has been ok at the speed I go through a dungeon at (I'm a warrior) I say almost because on the few occasions that I've had someone in my group who has been the "go go go" guy it's always a healer.

Now I'm not saying I'm without blame in these cases but for the first time I go into a dungeon, I don't know how bad the mobs might hurt ect so I will air on the side of caution and so maybe I do go a little slow. I do always mention if it's the first time I'm doing a dungeon. The last case was the dungeon Doma Castle. The build up to this dungeon was awesome and I was looking forward to it. Instead what I had was a level 80 healer spent the entire dungeon running ahead of the group, barely healing me at all (on one group of mobs letting me die as he didn't cast a single healing spell)

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As a healer, I also don't understand this mentality. We healer only have one aoe button. Whether it's single pack or more, we only spam that one button while occasionally healer the tank via ogcd. I don't consider hectic healing as the tank hp plummet as "interesting rotation". If the tank is good, big pull is as interesting as single pulling since they don't need to be healed that much.

The only argument for big pull is the speed, which honestly when I sign up for leveling roulette, I already expect to get sprouts, people new to dungeon, etc. Cool if I get to clear fast, but not surprised it the dungeon took longer than usual. So if I'm pressed on time, I will just skip the roulette.

A lot do it because of ego. They think you aren't pulling everything they can handle. That you died makes it pretty clear this healer needs to reassess that particular belief. Every tank isn't the same and what works for one won't always work for another. As healers, the most important thing we should be is flexible.

I don't care if a tank pulls small. I'll help dps more. My Holy still works whether it's big or small. I let them know I have their back if they want to experiment, but I'm cool with going at their pace. A lot take me up on it when they see I'm not going to get butthurt if they pull small. Rescuing or berating someone is going to have the exact opposite effect. The only person someone can control is their own self. And for everyone else, if you want something, then you need to communicate and sometimes compromise.

The real reason is because most dungeons don't require a healer anymore unless you chain pull due to all the nerfs they've undergone so most healers feel like they don't get to play their role unless you go fast and pull a lot, which is really understandable. Everything hits like a wet noodle in this game's dungeons now.

A small pulling tank is a tank that is doing it wrong. You correct wrong play.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Or maybe, just maybe, there could be some sort of understanding that the DF is going to be random all the way around. It is not going to be a pleasant experience 100% of the time, though one's standards on what is considered "pleasant" may vary. So, people can either deal with that fact or don't queue at all. I'd be okay with some people not queueing, personally. It's less drama that I have to see, not that I see much to begin with.

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The same could be said for the tanks expecting things to go as slow as possible. They should understand that it is DF and they will get matched with completely random people, some of them being rushing healers.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

The only argument for big pull is the speed, which honestly when I sign up for leveling roulette, I already expect to get sprouts, people new to dungeon, etc. Cool if I get to clear fast, but not surprised it the dungeon took longer than usual. So if I'm pressed on time, I will just skip the roulette.

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There is nothing more boring than healing damage that is not preventing death. Two-Three mobs in 99% of the dungeons cannot kill the tank even if the healer doesn't heal. And it is not like you have a DPS rotation to keep you engaged. Pulling big is not only about speed but also about making the healer's job relevant.

People, who allegedly play or main a healing job but do not understand the rushing, are people who actually don't know how to play a healing job in FFXIV.

With that said, I will rush absolutely any tank. Some tanks even like that since I have gotten 3x comms in runs where I rushed them.

I started 3 months ago, in a few occasions I had a healer or even DPS rushing ahead. But it’s genuinely a stupid move because if you’re trying to pull multiple packs, you need to get that first aggro, that first AoE right.

In my case those doing this were mentors, so yea I’m starting to understand where the meme came from.

Having DPS classes with great AoE and burst make the whole thing easier too, in my experience the smoothest run was with a ninja and machinist.

You also don’t know how the healer plays, so best thing is pull 2 pack and see how it goes from there.