Large quantity of gil disappeared.

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Originally Posted by Awha

While not it's a bad law defense, I did get off a speeding ticket by telling the police officer that I just open up and see what my car could do. It was a straight away near a school zone at 2 am. Officer just let me go.

In short if those in power do not choose to enforce the rules or laws then people should not be shocked when others break said rules.

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I do not disagree at all.

however, I just really dislike bots and think thats one thing that should be enforced ^^

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

I do not disagree at all.

however, I just really dislike bots and think thats one thing that should be enforced ^^

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I agree it would be nice. *glares at FC mate that has been running the same bots for 4 years now.*

We can dream.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

I swear I saw this exact same post verbatim a couple of months ago.

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https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...?highlight=Gil
Like this one?^^

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Originally Posted by RNGHatesMe

As title states, I was at 29million gil when i entered the goblet to try buying a house, i realized after someone bought it and i was teleporting away that i only had 87 thousand. So in the 2 or so hours, 29million gil just up and vanished, i went through chat logs and i didnt initiate any trades or anything, just gone into thin air...

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And this is why you don't use autoclickers.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Is this considered a scam if the player is running a macro nonstop and is actually away from the computer/game? I don't think so.

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The kicker here is that the macro user is actually violating TOS especially if they are doing this AFK.

'Tis best that people pay their multimillion gil idiot tax and move on.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

Do i undestand it right? A bot user got cheated?

Cheers

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Was utterly confused for a bit till I read your post.

I will drink to that. Housing sucks but don't whine when you take matters into your own hands and it doesn't work out.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Yes, I'm sure all the self righteous people here never speed or violate other rules or laws.

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If you're in Jersey on a highway with every other car going 80 in a 65 lane, no one will pull you over (See this as sort of like using GPose and ACT and other, similar, client-side third-party applications. You're breaking the rules but... so long as no one is hurt SE looks the other way.)

If you're in Jersey on a highway with every other car going 80 in a 65 lane, while also tossing nails out to the car behind you, you're probably going to get pulled over. (Similar to how people using ACT to harass other players will likely get temp banned or have a strike on their account.)

But if you're in the middle of Manhattan going 80 in a 25 lane, you bet your butt you're gonna get pulled over, and also likely arrested for reckless endangerment, as your actions are now not sanctioned by either the public nor the law - and as you have put both yourself and others in harms way, you have no room to speak. (Using auto clickers to enable yourself to not be at the computer while trying for a house, causes direct impairment to others gameplay and is not sanctioned nor is it looked at as a "We won't do anything if you don't say anything" sort of deal.)

In each of those cases, you've broken the law - but only in one case is it acceptable.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I'm not defending a botter. I'm pointing out that it's becoming a thing where people are simply relocating to do just that and doing it multiple times on a regular basis. Maybe try reading a bit more carefully to see what I'm really saying. You are simply defending the relocation scam by people who don't really want the house but only take the money from botters. Two wrongs don't make a right and honest people are being hurt by this. Both parties are wrong.

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See the thing is, there are no two wrongs here.

There are rules against 3rd party program usage. Therefore it's wrong.

There is no rule nor limitation on relocation. Therefore it's not wrong.

People that relocate to give botters some karma comeuppance are actually performing a service to the game while operating within the rules.

Non bot clickers are not harmed by this at all because:
A) They will not accidentaly click the retainer and buy the overpriced items, and
B) They wouldn't have won clicking against a bot.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Can you really get mad at people for botting around such a terrible system?

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Yes, yes we can.

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Originally Posted by weebtext

Woah... deja vu! Anyone who bots to get a house deserves to be """scammed""" by relocators.

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No, anyone who bots to get a house deserves to be banned for using illegal third party software to cheat. And if they weren't botting in the first place, they wouldn't open themselves up to someone taking advantage of their cheating.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

No, anyone who bots to get a house deserves to be banned for using illegal third party software to cheat. And if they weren't botting in the first place, they wouldn't open themselves up to someone taking advantage of their cheating.

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People want to overlook the fact that both parties are wrong. The bot clickers for sure but also the current batch of people relocating simply to steal their money and then relocate back to their original plots freeing up that house once again. Lets forget now about all the innocent home buyers trying to buy that house while these jokers play their game of transfer and sell along with the auto clicker while no one gets the house they are trying to get even after clicking for hours.

I've seen auto clickers reported when they continue to click after the house is sold and the GM's should deal with them harshly. I've also been told although I can't personally verify it, that house relocators who have purposely transferred and put up retainers have had that house taken away. You've got to love though those who condone relocating to steal botters money as being a good thing. They are both wrong.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

See the thing is, there are no two wrongs here.

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Why am I not surprised you think that way.

One has to hope a cool down of 30 days or more is coming on relocations and that relocations themselves which I think are a good thing aren't removed from the housing scene.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Why am I not surprised you think that way.

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Because you read the ToS and know that I am right?

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Because you read the ToS and know that I am right?

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No cause i read a lot of what you post here on this forum and your opinions are quite predictable.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Not cause i read a lot of what you post here on this forum and your opinions are quite predictable.

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I'm flattered to have a fan.

But to elaborate:

There is no limitations, neither in the system nor in the ToS, as to how many times and why you relocate so long as you can pay up the fee.
Likewise, there is no limitations, neither in the system nor in the ToS, as to how much you can put an item for in a vendor. If you put it for a ridiculously price compared to the market media, then no one will buy it.

Unless they are botting.

At which point it's your fault.

You decided to trust a 3rd party program to play the game for you and you found out that the 3rd party program wasn't so smart. As some others have said in this thread, you are responsible for every click you make in the game, or in this case, for relegating the clicking to a program.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

You decided to trust a 3rd party program to play the game for you and you found out that the 3rd party program wasn't so smart. As some others have said in this thread, you are responsible for every click you make in the game, or in this case, for relegating the clicking to a program.

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I don't see anyone defending the auto clickers do you? They should be reported and punished by a GM.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

People want to overlook the fact that both parties are wrong. The bot clickers for sure but also the current batch of people relocating simply to steal their money and then relocate back to their original plots freeing up that house once again. Lets forget now about all the innocent home buyers trying to buy that house while these jokers play their game of transfer and sell along with the auto clicker while no one gets the house they are trying to get even after clicking for hours.

I've seen auto clickers reported when they continue to click after the house is sold and the GM's should deal with them harshly. I've also been told although I can't personally verify it, that house relocators who have purposely transferred and put up retainers have had that house taken away. You've got to love though those who condone relocating to steal botters money as being a good thing. They are both wrong.



Why am I not surprised you think that way.

One has to hope a cool down of 30 days or more is coming on relocations and that relocations themselves which I think are a good thing aren't removed from the housing scene.

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CD on relocation and no priority for relocation.
Two things I'd like to see.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

you are correct, they were the ones bringing laws into it.

however, using a bot program is against the ToS which we all signed. therefore is cheating.

now, you can semantic cheating any way you like, but its still cheating. semantics just allow the cheater to feel better about doing it by justifying their cheating by saying "the system sucks so I am going to work around the same system the non cheaters use by using this program to give me an edge over them"

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Not defending them, just arguing semantics. People keep saying stuff that just isn't true.

Key words in my phrase is *laws*. Since no actual law here was broken, it's a rules violation, not a law break.

Difference.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

No, anyone who bots to get a house deserves to be banned for using illegal third party software to cheat. And if they weren't botting in the first place, they wouldn't open themselves up to someone taking advantage of their cheating.

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That is the best case scenario.

Gotta love people who view clicking your mouse as a task that requires bots. Basically a giant sign over your head that says: "I'm lazy and don't deserve a house, please rob me."

Got what you deserved buddy.

Before anyone chimes in with: "I'm not lazy!!! I just have a life," cool bbdoll, so does everyone. People with lives still click on the placard. Just wait till the lottery system comes in for housing in 6.1 and be lazy there.

Ripperoni.

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Originally Posted by Imora

CD on relocation and no priority for relocation.
Two things I'd like to see.

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There already is a cooldown on relocation, it just isnt long enough(currently its 5 mins). And the reason they get priority is that they arent removing any available houses from the market, just changing the location the available house is in. But you could still greatly improve the feature by changing two things. 1. Lengthen the cooldown on relocation. Easiest way would be to tie it to either the daily or weekly reset(honestly daily would be long enough, but if you wanted to be harsh you could set it to the week). If you need to wait til tomorrow, you probly arent getting your original lot back so the number of people who would be willing to transfer to troll would be greatly reduced. 2. If someone transfers into a lot, rather then re-starting the random purchase timer just transfer the time remaining over to the newly opened lot. This ensures the timer is always getting closer to 0 and a transfer no longer changes how long someone would have to wait for their purchase.

I never had too laugh more than this..
Its a great idea to move somewhere and point the retainer so to the shild and the bots loose rheir money. Thats great. thumps up to this.

If se doesnt do amything against 3rd party tools, the players itself must find a way against those ppl.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

There already is a cooldown on relocation, it just isnt long enough(currently its 5 mins). And the reason they get priority is that they arent removing any available houses from the market, just changing the location the available house is in. But you could still greatly improve the feature by changing two things. 1. Lengthen the cooldown on relocation. Easiest way would be to tie it to either the daily or weekly reset(honestly daily would be long enough, but if you wanted to be harsh you could set it to the week). If you need to wait til tomorrow, you probly arent getting your original lot back so the number of people who would be willing to transfer to troll would be greatly reduced. 2. If someone transfers into a lot, rather then re-starting the random purchase timer just transfer the time remaining over to the newly opened lot. This ensures the timer is always getting closer to 0 and a transfer no longer changes how long someone would have to wait for their purchase.

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I mean, do you guys even have proof that people relocate back to their previous plot? Cause I really don't see this happening outside of Small to Small relocation, since any other relocation you run the risk of someone else relocating into your old Medium or Large house. And unless the clicker bot had more than 3M gil on them, you end up losing money if you relocate back and forth.

And your 2nd suggestion would make the whole issue worse??? Since the argument on this thread about why relocation = bad is that people that are legit waiting 12+ hours and clicking wasted their time, which would only be exacerbated if you waited 12 hours, someone relocates, and by the time you find out where the original plot is the timer expired and someone else who just happened by it bought it.

They've already announced work on a lottery system for EW which would fix all current problems.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

There already is a cooldown on relocation, it just isnt long enough(currently its 5 mins).

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Personally, I'd love to see relocation be on the same timer as people trying to buy the house, as in you couldn't relocate to the plot until it's also available for sale. I respect that people who have houses may want a different plot without having to give up their current house and all that, but it's a problematic system. I've been seeing a lot of people relocating to open plots on my server which then causes the plot they were on to go to the full random release timer. We've ended up playing Whack-A-Mole or that little game where you move numbers around to get them in order with open plots. It's effectively click, click, camp, hope nobody relocates, #$*&#$@# someone relocated, move to their old plot and camp, camp, click, click, ad naseum until someone gets lucky.

To be completely frank, I don't think people should be allowed to relocate at all except when totally new zones are opened up, such as Shirogane and Foundation. Otherwise, nope. They bought the plot, they keep the plot unless they want to relinquish it. I understand that it's a thing, why SE did it, and that it's not going away. I'm just getting tired of losing my chance at buying a plot to a relocation-sniper.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

They've already announced work on a lottery system for EW which would fix all current problems.

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The lottery won't fix anything. It will just be a new layer of frustration for players who want a house but can't get one because instead of competing against the dozen or so players willing to give up playing the rest of the game to camp a placard, you'll be competing against the hundreds of players who want a house but weren't willing to stop playing the game to camp.

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

Personally, I'd love to see relocation be on the same timer as people trying to buy the house, as in you couldn't relocate to the plot until it's also available for sale. I respect that people who have houses may want a different plot without having to give up their current house and all that, but it's a problematic system. I've been seeing a lot of people relocating to open plots on my server which then causes the plot they were on to go to the full random release timer. We've ended up playing Whack-A-Mole or that little game where you move numbers around to get them in order with open plots. It's effectively click, click, camp, hope nobody relocates, #$*&#$@# someone relocated, move to their old plot and camp, camp, click, click, ad naseum until someone gets lucky.

To be completely frank, I don't think people should be allowed to relocate at all except when totally new zones are opened up, such as Shirogane and Foundation. Otherwise, nope. They bought the plot, they keep the plot unless they want to relinquish it. I understand that it's a thing, why SE did it, and that it's not going away. I'm just getting tired of losing my chance at buying a plot to a relocation-sniper.

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They're already announced that adjustments will be made to relocation when the other changes get implemented. They haven't hinted at the nature of those adjustments, though.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

I find it curious how the OP hasn't come back after it's come up that he was probably macroing :p :confused:

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would you come back after you realized you just admitted to breaking the rules on the public forum and EVERYONE figured it out?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The lottery won't fix anything. It will just be a new layer of frustration for players who want a house but can't get one because instead of competing against the dozen or so players willing to give up playing the rest of the game to camp a placard, you'll be competing against the hundreds of players who want a house but weren't willing to stop playing the game to camp.

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I wouldn't say it won't fix ANYTHING. Right now there's a huge time investment needed to even have a chance to get a house. You HAVE to camp. You HAVE to be there nearly the whole time. With a lottery you, supposedly, will put in a bid.. then hope. Go do whatever you want for the time the bid takes to resolve. It solves the problem where people would have to invest inordinate amounts of time to even have a chance of getting a house (it also might make house botting not a thing at all). It might still be frustrating, but at least it won't be crazily time consuming.

- if your exploiting an auto clicker, your experiencing ‘rot to the fruit’, aka you can not gain from legal actions if your actions are illegal.

Using an auto clicker is against TOS, and punishable, be lucky your not getting banned and only loosing gil. Gil does not vanish on its own.

(2): option 2, you gave someone else access to your account and they stole your Gil, that is your fault in any case then.


My advise, learn from this, and avoid it in future

Definitely sounds like OP wasn't there when that gil vanished.

Doesn't some mouse's and controllers have a auto click turbo function. Would that be considered botting?

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Doesn't some mouse's and controllers have a auto click turbo function. Would that be considered botting?

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Yes.

/10char.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Doesn't some mouse's and controllers have a auto click turbo function. Would that be considered botting?

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It isn't a relevant comparison, as you can't use a turbo controller to buy a house.
You don't just push X a bunch when interacting with a placard. It is set up so if you do, when the confirmation message pops up you'll automatically click "no."
Directional inputs are required, so a turbo controller doesn't help.

You could use your 1-time item recovery... not sure if it works on gil.

Also, this is why I keep all my extra Gil on my retainers so I don't use it by accident.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

Also, this is why I keep all my extra Gil on my retainers so I don't use it by accident.

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At the very least they'd lose what they had in their inventory to buy the house.
Pulling this trick on an autoclicker is very safe and sustainable because you will always at least make your gil back.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

At the very least they'd lose what they had in their inventory to buy the house.
Pulling this trick on an autoclicker is very safe and sustainable because you will always at least make your gil back.

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How does this work exactly? Is it just placing your retainer at the edge of the plot?

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

How does this work exactly? Is it just placing your retainer at the edge of the plot?

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Basically. You plop down a retainer as close to the placard as possible and due to how the game prioritizes targetting NPCs over interactive items, will cause their bot macro to target the retainer instead of the placard, which will then cause their macro's confirm inputs to start buying out the list of items on the retainer.

It doesn't work on every plot, since the retainer has to get decently close to the placard which isn't possible with every plot.

What i find truly interesting about OP, Thread aside, is his Lodestone Profile. I highly recomment looking it up with the Player Search function.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I wouldn't say it won't fix ANYTHING. Right now there's a huge time investment needed to even have a chance to get a house. You HAVE to camp. You HAVE to be there nearly the whole time. With a lottery you, supposedly, will put in a bid.. then hope. Go do whatever you want for the time the bid takes to resolve. It solves the problem where people would have to invest inordinate amounts of time to even have a chance of getting a house (it also might make house botting not a thing at all). It might still be frustrating, but at least it won't be crazily time consuming.

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No, you don't. I know players who have recently gotten their houses without any camping or purchasing from other players.

The idea that you MUST is a fallacy caused by obsession and fear of missing out.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

You could use your 1-time item recovery... not sure if it works on gil.

Also, this is why I keep all my extra Gil on my retainers so I don't use it by accident.

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One time recovery is when you accident discard or sell one item, not to reverse "accidental" purchases.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

One time recovery is when you accident discard or sell one item, not to reverse "accidental" purchases.

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I've known someone who purchased the wrong UCOB weapon back when the ultimate was fairly new and a GM gave them a totem once they confirmed he had discarded the weapon he did buy, it's not only for discarded or sold items.

If you get the right GM, I doubt they'd care that you'd want to reverse the purchase of an item off the mb, they'd likely just give you the 'are you sure? it's one time only, and you can't keep the item you did buy." spiel. The more prudent issue would be that it's likely not a single item the OP "bought" so they'd have to request an account rollback and then wait for it to be completed before playing again if they wanted their gil back.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

What i find truly interesting about OP, Thread aside, is his Lodestone Profile. I highly recomment looking it up with the Player Search function.

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not sure whats so interesting about it

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

No, you don't. I know players who have recently gotten their houses without any camping or purchasing from other players.

The idea that you MUST is a fallacy caused by obsession and fear of missing out.

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There is a chance that you can find , on less populated servers, a house that someone transferred or demo-d out of sitting with no bots spamming the placard. On my server I have absolutely never found this (and I have spent lots of time looking during off hours). The only time you can outright get a house without camping or being exceedingly lucky with timing is during new ward releases which is a mad scramble as well. So while there is a CHANCE it can happen, if you really want a house, your best bet is "housing savage" of camping and spamming for hours.

I'm not saying the new solution is the best one, I'm saying it solves some problems for people and one of the biggest complaints a lot of people have which is house searching, for the most part, is a large time investment where you can't really do anything else.

Jojoya is correct, camping is optional, not mandatory. Jenova hasn't been a low pop server for years and yet I've helped several friends get a house for their FC with no camping, it just takes time. Check the ward list for vacancies periodically, click any vacant house for a few minutes then try again a few hours later or wait for another house to pop up.

Camping or not, there's some luck involved with the timer. And nobody is going to say the current system is good but the idea that camping is mandatory is wrong. Its a choice people make because they fear on losing out and because they're impatient to have it now. Being patient and persistent over time gives you just as much of a chance as camping does and a lot less stress.