I tried but its not the game for me

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

Full stop on that. IF it they would do anything it would be just changing this game into something different... so nope.

Its ok if you dont like the story or larger parts of the game, if its not for you then thats fine, but dont tell ppl to try and change em into another game...

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVAHXiKjgRo

Glad you enjoyed what you did. No worries.

Some people (myself included) feel strongly that if you're not interested in the story, you shouldn't really play this game. That said, I'd be a fool not to recognize people play games for different reasons. Some people just wanna play the raid content, others dungeons only. Some people just love the social/RP/glamour aspect. Don't let anyone tell you that your fun is wrong...well unless your fun is being a dick to others...

So, if you ever feel like coming back, know the door is always open. In the meantime, I hope you find something fun to play!

Understandable, have a nice day.

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Originally Posted by TeraRamis

Not a huge fan of the story, either - particularly ARR's stuff. Other Final Fantasies have simply told more engaging tales with far less text. It does get significantly better in HW, though.

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The older FFs knew when to show and not tell. Unfortunately Square has a bad habit of having to spell everything out to a player anymore.

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Originally Posted by DeafJohn

Gave up half way through ARR and bought the story skip

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This is honestly your problem, the story-skip skips too much and it sounds like you skipped right before ARR starts ramping up. Heavensward and onward keeps the momentum going and consistently improves. You cannot enjoy the story if you buy the skip.

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Originally Posted by DeafJohn

Came here from WoW, bought the basic game, my 30 days is up today and I am taking a break.

I really love the professions, in ARR anyways, people say they changed things a lot in the future expansions. I could do nothing but the professions they are so perfect. Had every gathering and crafting profession to 50 and a million gil. It was fun.

But I just cant stand the main story quest. People keep saying how amazing the story is, just so many people keep saying that. I wish I could see why they say that, are they just parroting what other people say or do they really believe the story is great? To me its just suckfest of crap.

Gave up half way through ARR and bought the story skip from the store then just ground out the levels in Fates. Started next expansion story quest and just more of the same. Port to this place talk to a guy port another place talk to a guy, enough already.
Its very difficult to believe they are not making the story frustrating on purpose to get you to buy a skip.

Well I really like the game better than WoW otherwise. So maybe I will just take a break and come back once in awhile and try to get through the story quest. I know I have the option to buy more story skips but that feels like I am just paying a company for crap product.

Sorry for the rant. I know this is going to trigger some people, and I am sorry, because I really do love the game aside from that.

Good luck in your travels.

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While I'd argue ARR is worse than the rest of the game, it's still a good idea of how this game's msq is structured.
I'd also say that I think that the MSQ is the best content in this game, and if it just doesn't do it for you then just don't worry about it and play the parts you really enjoy?

Most the stories to ffxiv is very boring. The only 2 i liked so far was heavensward and shadowbringers. Good luck and hope you find a mmo you like.

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Originally Posted by DeafJohn

But I just cant stand the main story quest. People keep saying how amazing the story is, just so many people keep saying that. I wish I could see why they say that, are they just parroting what other people say or do they really believe the story is great? To me its just suckfest of crap.

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I found ARR pretty boring as well tbh, the story really kicked off for me in Heavensward, Stormblood I found a bit dull then Shadowbringers was just amazing to me in every way.

If you ever come back, give Heavensward a try. If not, hope you find a game you enjoy as much as you did WoW.

The thing with this story is that it has a lot of fluff you can understand the story by skipping and watch select few cutscenes just fine.

Games not for everyone especially coming from wow with it's lack of story well technically it has one but it's like you have to go out of your way to find it in wow, although shadowlands is changing that.

My friend just got to the end after 2 years and is really enjoying it now as the game does get more challenging, but also opens up and offers you more to do.

Like jumping puzzles got it. Want a seperate area to enjoy being op with mounts and cool glamor eureka and bozjan fit the bill. Want mini games you get it. Want a house you can get one. It all really opens up the further you go.

Honestly it's like playing many single player games story wise. Take games like persona 5 or Skyrim or any other story driven game they don't always have the best gameplay at the start many things are closed off or locked behind driving the story so to really experience Ff14 it's imperative to push through the slow parts, a group of friends doesn't hurt while also setting goals you can reach together.

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Originally Posted by DeafJohn

Blablabla I'm Wow refugee, blablabla isn't for me...

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Okay, go play another game, why do you need to tell us?
When I take a break from FFXIV, I don't come and say it...

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Originally Posted by SpanishInkwehsitor

The older FFs knew when to show and not tell. Unfortunately Square has a bad habit of having to spell everything out to a player anymore.

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The older FF games weren't MMOs (other than FFXI and I've heard very mixed reactions to its story). You can't tell a story the same way in a MMO as you would in a normal single player game.

A single player game is generally released with its entire story ready to play in a single experience. That allows the story to flow better.

A MMO story is going to have lengthy interruptions while waiting on new content releases. That means not only including elements to explain the interruptions but then adding in reminders of what happened in the past when the new story segment gets released months later. You also have the issue of staff on the game being replaced over time and coming in with slightly different visions of how the story should be progressing.

As a result, you can have a good story in a MMO but will never measure up to the quality of story you get in a good single player game.

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Originally Posted by DeafJohn

... People keep saying how amazing the story is, just so many people keep saying that. I wish I could see why they say that, are they just parroting what other people say or do they really believe the story is great? ...

Its very difficult to believe they are not making the story frustrating on purpose to get you to buy a skip.

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Can't talk for other people, but I honestly think FFXIV has a great story, both for an MMO and for a JRPG. A rollercoaster for sure, as the enjoyability can vary a lot between expansions, but overall I think the highs compensate for the lows. Hell, some of the highs I would rate among the greats of the whole franchise.

That said, I don't see the point about the skip potion. Its a hefty chunk of change for SE, sure, but I rarely see people enjoying the game without the story. Given the heavy investment into it, and the hours of content it provides, I doubt SE wants to actively push people to skip it.

Not gonna blame you for getting tired of ARR though. That was quite the low for me too back in the day before I reached the lead up quests to Heavensward.

MMO stories are pretty iffy. Like two games to me has a decent story. This and swotor class stories.


I do think though that this game story is a little bit overrated by the community. Don't get me wrong it makes me feel at times, and i want to see what happen...but I do worry about where the story can go. Because the story is mostly shock factor, and that can only carry you so far.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

But.. They played after ARR supposedly. Unless they're still talking about the post ARR filler.. but I'd be surprised if that wasn't skipped by the pot. So their feedback , that would be unique or at least important for changing development is that while they don't enjoy the story itself, they're also not enjoying the part where you have to walk back and forth and grab this and that and give it to that other person (which while valid isn't really unique as far as MMO's go, especially from someone who came from WoW)

So.. yeah. If we're going to be positive, we should also embrace criticism, especially when presented reasonably.
We may not agree, but as long as it's not all hyperbole, it's useful feedback.

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But the OP said they skipped ARR at some point. To me, skipping ARR usually results is less immersion in the story and some parts not hitting their mark quite as well. The end of post-ARR story is one of the best parts in the game to me. And like you said, the fetch quests complaint isn't new as far as I know. I'm 100% with you that feedback and criticism are very important, but my only problem is when said feedback and criticism are ones that add nothing new. The fact that the devs tried to improve the ARR experience by removing some tedious fetch and unnecessary quests and that HW is part of the free trial is proof that the devs themselves are already aware of their game's weaknesses (and this is most definitely thanks to the players' feedback). The way I see it, it's pointless to repeat something that almost everyone already knows. You didn't like the story? Ok, cool. Move on.

The thing I noticed with WoW players, and if I'm wrong I apologize, is that a lot of them are too eager to get to the good parts and/or end-game, that this ruins the story experience because it reduces their patience. ARR's goal is to ease the players into the world bit by bit, and it focuses a lot on world-building, where we also get to become more familiar with the NPCs that will accompany us in our journey. It's no wonder this part will be a bit slow. But the payoff is so worth it.

I think the biggest turnoff and main reason for people to not enjoy the story is the huge mountain of story they have ahead of themselves, playing the game, wanting to get to endgame but knowing there are hundred of hours ahead of them if they wanna play the story too is very overwhelming and burns some people out after a while.

I, like most people, enjoyed the story alot but I also played one expansion at a time and had time to let everything sink in. While new players can't cope with all the information they get thrown at them. After a while they just make no sense out of it, leading to less enjoyment. I've seen that in alot of streams, people rushing through the story, reading everything but still forgetting what happened 2 cut scenes before and making no sense of the current scene they watch due to that.

My advice is to just play the story like a single player RPG, MMO is the side and postgame.

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Originally Posted by DeafJohn

Came here from WoW, bought the basic game, my 30 days is up today and I am taking a break.

I really love the professions, in ARR anyways, people say they changed things a lot in the future expansions. I could do nothing but the professions they are so perfect. Had every gathering and crafting profession to 50 and a million gil. It was fun.

But I just cant stand the main story quest. People keep saying how amazing the story is, just so many people keep saying that. I wish I could see why they say that, are they just parroting what other people say or do they really believe the story is great? To me its just suckfest of crap.

Gave up half way through ARR and bought the story skip from the store then just ground out the levels in Fates. Started next expansion story quest and just more of the same. Port to this place talk to a guy port another place talk to a guy, enough already.
Its very difficult to believe they are not making the story frustrating on purpose to get you to buy a skip.

Well I really like the game better than WoW otherwise. So maybe I will just take a break and come back once in awhile and try to get through the story quest. I know I have the option to buy more story skips but that feels like I am just paying a company for crap product.

Sorry for the rant. I know this is going to trigger some people, and I am sorry, because I really do love the game aside from that.

Good luck in your travels.

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Isn't WoW the same type of game when it comes to the story? Go to X person, talk maybe kills some mobs then go to Y person and so on.

It's a shame that you did not enjoy the storyline however you have got to admit that at least it has a cohesive storyline when compared to the other game you had played previously. Yes the quests do tell you to go to place A, speak to person B and sometimes kill number C of mod D but so does the other game.

Still you have to go with what you enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The older FF games weren't MMOs (other than FFXI and I've heard very mixed reactions to its story). You can't tell a story the same way in a MMO as you would in a normal single player game.

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To a point, yes. However, 99 percent of the time, FFXIV's plot delivery vehicle of choice is the "conversation." The conversation - by its very nature (at least how its handled in FFXIV) - pauses any action. The characters sit down or stand, typically in a rough circle, and chat. And chat. And chat.

While this may be at least in part reflective of the real world (I'm not sure that most people rattle on in quite the same way that the key players in this arc seem to), it's a methodology that's pretty much absent in just about every other form of entertainment. Oh, yes, characters in books, movies, TV, etc. all talk to one another, but they generally do it while on the move - shooting at bad guys; getting ready to jump out of a plane; sneaking through sewers; walking to their next magic class, etc. This is not only more interesting for the reader/viewer/consumer, it also allows scenes and settings to contribute to the narrative, and the plot to progress at a far faster clip than simply sitting down for a 10+ minute pow-wow every time some little detail floats to the surface. It's showing and not telling.

FFXIV tells. There are action scenes, yes, but even when they occur, we have to have a good little chit chat afterwards just to make sure everyone absorbed things properly. I understand that this game is - at times - telling a very heavy and complicated story. But there's absolutely no justification for unfolding events in this manner. When we're in a cutscene, we might as well be playing one of those single-player games. And, given that, we don't require these ludicrous breaks every so often to 'talk shop' with the class. People aren't accustomed to that approach, and, what's more, it's dull; it is unambiguously lazy delivery. And it's hard to blame people for decoupling from it.

It's not lazy delivery at all, I totally disagree. How do some folks sit through a movie for 2 hours? This isn't fallout (whatever number) or fast and furious 206. The story is fine and if you don't like it that's fine too. But just know many people love this game for it's story, ARR was fine as far as I am concerned, massively multiplayer online roleplaying games are stories not first person shooters where it is all about action. If there is not enough action for whoever's taste maybe you are playing the wrong game. WoW has the same fetch and carry quests and so do all MMOs it's normal.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

It's not lazy delivery at all, I totally disagree. How do some folks sit through a movie for 2 hours? This isn't fallout (whatever number) or fast and furious 206. The story is fine and if you don't like it that's fine too. But just know many people love this game for it's story, ARR was fine as far as I am concerned, massively multiplayer online roleplaying games are stories not first person shooters where it is all about action. If there is not enough action for whoever's taste maybe you are playing the wrong game. WoW has the same fetch and carry quests and so do all MMOs it's normal.

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Kay, well, you're free to disagree. But people seem to just casually gloss over the fact that about half the media this company has ever released has been about one step short of garbage. And FFXIV, as much as I might like a lot of what it has to offer, is one of their weaker story efforts.

By the way, while we're talking movies, I seem to recall them struggling to do one of those at some point...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUXVOfdGE4o

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Originally Posted by TeraRamis

... it is unambiguously lazy delivery. And it's hard to blame people for decoupling from it.

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I slightly disagree on the lazy part. As you said, conventional story telling dictates a lot more show over tell, yet a non-insignificant number of people still massively enjoy it, to a point that its marketed as a major selling point both by SE and the fans. At this point I am more impressed with how they manage to keep the story engaging and interesting, even with it mostly conveyed with conversations. That's a feat I feel they'd struggle to accomplish if they were lazy about it.

Can I have your gold... I mean gil?

Jokes aside, take care you and have a nice day ^^

All final fantasy games stories have been sub par to be honest, but FF14 is the best out of the bunch for sure. I mean compare Final fantasy story to dragon quest, or even Xeno gears. Kinda below par.


However, I will say ff14 is top final fantasy story.

I actually liked ARR, and it is what hooked me to FFXIV and got me to purchase HW. However, ARR does seem to filter a lot of potential players out. The thing is, in this situation, even with a boost purchased, EW is coming out, so there will be another full jrpg worth of story to get through again. Generally, I think the story is pretty good, but if someone is having trouble even getting through the story after a boost, it really might be too much to get through, at this time, and would probably require another boost through ShB, just to probably end up in the exact same situation.

That being said, I don't like the saying "this game isn't for you", but if there are seemingly no redeeming features - at all - for any particular player, or if even recent updates only serve as a blocker, it might actually be the case.

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Originally Posted by TeraRamis

Kay, well, you're free to disagree. But people seem to just casually gloss over the fact that about half the media this company has ever released has been about one step short of garbage. And FFXIV, as much as I might like a lot of what it has to offer, is one of their weaker story efforts.

By the way, while we're talking movies, I seem to recall them struggling to do one of those at some point...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUXVOfdGE4o

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This is a hard disagree from me. I'm a huge Final Fantasy fan and also played most other SE titles and FFXIV is by FAR the best Final Fantasy story ever told. It even has my all time favorite FFVI beat.
This is all but lazy, anyone who put some time and thought into the story agrees that FFXIV is all but one of their weaker story efforts.

The only weak thing I'd agree uppon here would be that some quests take longer than they should but thats mostly due to the MMO aspekt of the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DeafJohn

Came here from WoW, bought the basic game, my 30 days is up today and I am taking a break.

I really love the professions, in ARR anyways, people say they changed things a lot in the future expansions. I could do nothing but the professions they are so perfect. Had every gathering and crafting profession to 50 and a million gil. It was fun.

But I just cant stand the main story quest. People keep saying how amazing the story is, just so many people keep saying that. I wish I could see why they say that, are they just parroting what other people say or do they really believe the story is great? To me its just suckfest of crap.

Gave up half way through ARR and bought the story skip from the store then just ground out the levels in Fates. Started next expansion story quest and just more of the same. Port to this place talk to a guy port another place talk to a guy, enough already.
Its very difficult to believe they are not making the story frustrating on purpose to get you to buy a skip.

Well I really like the game better than WoW otherwise. So maybe I will just take a break and come back once in awhile and try to get through the story quest. I know I have the option to buy more story skips but that feels like I am just paying a company for crap product.

Sorry for the rant. I know this is going to trigger some people, and I am sorry, because I really do love the game aside from that.

Good luck in your travels.

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No worries, I hope you have fun in whatever you do. Have a great journey! :)

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Originally Posted by Naoki34

Okay, go play another game, why do you need to tell us?
When I take a break from FFXIV, I don't come and say it...

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Funny how no one says this about the dozens of posts of people talking about how 14 saved them from Wow yada yada….

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Originally Posted by Atreides

This is a hard disagree from me. I'm a huge Final Fantasy fan and also played most other SE titles and FFXIV is by FAR the best Final Fantasy story ever told. It even has my all time favorite FFVI beat.
This is all but lazy, anyone who put some time and thought into the story agrees that FFXIV is all but one of their weaker story efforts.

The only weak thing I'd agree uppon here would be that some quests take longer than they should but thats mostly due to the MMO aspekt of the game.

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I kind of agree with some of the other people here. I think other ff's were far more engaging and fun while also keeping darker themes. The benefit of them being single player game sis that they dont have to worry about trying to appease a certain community. They can write the story the way they want to instead of having to write around certain players. Thats the biggest weakness of 14's story.I havent played other mmo's besides eso so i cant really say much on comparing stories between mmo's. I think earlier 14 was great like ARR and HW when the writes werent afraid to write what they wanted to. But now it feels like theyre trying to appease the community as best as possible with their writing and its just turned into a huge hugfest.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I kind of agree with some of the other people here. I think other ff's were far more engaging and fun while also keeping darker themes. The benefit of them being single player game sis that they dont have to worry about trying to appease a certain community. They can write the story the way they want to instead of having to write around certain players. Thats the biggest weakness of 14's story.I havent played other mmo's besides eso so i cant really say much on comparing stories between mmo's. I think earlier 14 was great like ARR and HW when the writes werent afraid to write what they wanted to. But now it feels like theyre trying to appease the community as best as possible with their writing and its just turned into a huge hugfest.

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I'm sorry but I have no idea what you're talking about here. I don't recall people ever complaining and telling the devs what to put in the story. Everyone just lets the devs and writers do their thing, and then we all discover the story together. I've never seen feedback about the direction of the story and how to write it. I also have to disagree about the other FF games being more engaging and fun. The games are good with some of them being meh, but FF14 is definitely among the best story-wise.

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Originally Posted by TeraRamis

To a point, yes. However, 99 percent of the time, FFXIV's plot delivery vehicle of choice is the "conversation." The conversation - by its very nature (at least how its handled in FFXIV) - pauses any action. The characters sit down or stand, typically in a rough circle, and chat. And chat. And chat.

While this may be at least in part reflective of the real world (I'm not sure that most people rattle on in quite the same way that the key players in this arc seem to), it's a methodology that's pretty much absent in just about every other form of entertainment. Oh, yes, characters in books, movies, TV, etc. all talk to one another, but they generally do it while on the move - shooting at bad guys; getting ready to jump out of a plane; sneaking through sewers; walking to their next magic class, etc. This is not only more interesting for the reader/viewer/consumer, it also allows scenes and settings to contribute to the narrative, and the plot to progress at a far faster clip than simply sitting down for a 10+ minute pow-wow every time some little detail floats to the surface. It's showing and not telling.

FFXIV tells. There are action scenes, yes, but even when they occur, we have to have a good little chit chat afterwards just to make sure everyone absorbed things properly. I understand that this game is - at times - telling a very heavy and complicated story. But there's absolutely no justification for unfolding events in this manner. When we're in a cutscene, we might as well be playing one of those single-player games. And, given that, we don't require these ludicrous breaks every so often to 'talk shop' with the class. People aren't accustomed to that approach, and, what's more, it's dull; it is unambiguously lazy delivery. And it's hard to blame people for decoupling from it.

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Bingo. They keep throwing the brakes on the flow of the game to group up and discuss what happened far too often, and that discussion usually just recaps what the player just inferred from the previous quest.

As I mentioned when I started FFXIV: “in games like WoW a quest means I talk to 2 people then farm 20 Wolf livers, in this game I get 2 Wolf livers then talk to 20 people”. These characters chat so much I’m surprised anything gets done...

Oh wait no I remember how it gets done: a tertiary character was magicking up the next plot mcguffin out of the ether while everyone was having their powwow...

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Originally Posted by Eien713

I'm sorry but I have no idea what you're talking about here. I don't recall people ever complaining and telling the devs what to put in the story. Everyone just lets the devs and writers do their thing, and then we all discover the story together. I've never seen feedback about the direction of the story and how to write it. I also have to disagree about the other FF games being more engaging and fun. The games are good with some of them being meh, but FF14 is definitely among the best story-wise.

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The constant fanservice. The lack of consequences because people are sensitive and can’t get over their beloved characters dying. People themselves have said it. Can’t kill off some of the mascot characters as it would just cause anger and would probably make people unsub. Hard disagree with 14 being the best story wise. It’s subjective anyways. But 14’s story barring like, maybe base shb is pretty meh. Full of plot armor and plot holes. Other ff’s don’t really suffer much from this.

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Originally Posted by Eien713

Why did the OP feel the need to tell the whole forum about their decision?

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I totally agree. But to answer your question. Go read the Wow forums and you'll have your answer.

I've been playing wow for 17 years, and while I can't post in the WoW forums because of my Guilds Ranking and policy. I love to read it just to get a good laugh.

As for the Story, I made it to Heavens Ward so far and took a break trying alts. I think the story has some good moments and boring. The only thing is, they need to stop with the... Someone always runs in in the middle of a conversation and "oh no" we have a problem.

If the OP doesn't like the story. Just skip over it and get to end game. Do crafting, raiding or whatever you enjoy.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Hard disagree with 14 being the best story wise. It’s subjective anyways. But 14’s story barring like, maybe base shb is pretty meh. Full of plot armor and plot holes. Other ff’s don’t really suffer much from this.

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I didn't say it was the best story but one of the best. There's a difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The constant fanservice. The lack of consequences because people are sensitive and can’t get over their beloved characters dying. People themselves have said it. Can’t kill off some of the mascot characters as it would just cause anger and would probably make people unsub.

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I'm gonna have to ask for statements from the devs themselves about this. Moreover, not wanting to kill characters isn't so bad if the authors have originally never planned for them to die in the first place. And if you're gonna mention other FF games, I'd say other FF games did get their endings changed by bringing back dead characters. Potential spoilers ahead.

Examples are FF10 with FF10-2 and maybe FF13-2 with Lightning Returns (I never finished this game, so I'm not sure about Serah's fate).

What you're saying is like you're claiming you went inside the writers' heads and learned that the story was gonna be different but was changed to appease the masses.

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Originally Posted by Eien713

I didn't say it was the best story but one of the best. There's a difference.



I'm gonna have to ask for statements from the devs themselves about this. Moreover, not wanting to kill characters isn't so bad if the authors have originally never planned for them to die in the first place. And if you're gonna mention other FF games, I'd say other FF games did get their endings changed by bringing back dead characters. Potential spoilers ahead.

Examples are FF10 with FF10-2 and maybe FF13-2 with Lightning Returns (I never finished this game, so I'm not sure about Serah's fate).

What you're saying is like you're claiming you went inside the writers' heads and learned that the story was gonna be different but was changed to appease the masses.

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I mean there’s multiple signs to this, like the constant retcons and plot holes they’ve done. Obviously none of it is confirmed because the devs aren’t going to say that. As for your examples, my point was it’s a common theme in the ff series but somehow isn’t so prevalent in 14. Again it’s my opinion and it’s all subjective. I think there’s many ff’s that have 14 beat. It’s an okay story but to me that’s all it is. Maybe EW will change that by being darker and having some actual consequences but who can say.

Without the story the repetition and faceroll reality of the content that isn't high-end raids becomes apparent very quickly (unless you fancy virtual house decoration and taking screenshots of your character in cute outfits) so count me in the number of people who think this game isn't worth playing if you don't care for the story.

Heavensward starts with 2 slow questlines that repeat some of ARR issues, but they don't last long. It's the best paced and most mature writing in XIV history, a lot more so than the supposedly "dark" story of ShB that itself is pretty decent though a lot more shounen anime juvenile in 5.0 but gets increasingly more stupid with its patches.
Honestly, in retrospect, Stormblood was also far more mature than ShB, despite having that Bleach-tier character for an antagonist.

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Originally Posted by Eien713

The one question that came to my mind when I read the title and the post is: Why did the OP feel the need to tell the whole forum about their decision? Imagine if every single person who decided to quit came to the forums to post about it. I don't mean to sound rude, but this is kinda something that doesn't really matter to the majority of people (as in it's not something that's related to them), especially since the post doesn't really say anything new. It's a universal fact that those who quit FF14 during ARR almost always give the same reason (and they usually get the same replies). It's nothing new.

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For the same reason people feel the need to create topics just saying how amazing the game and community is and most people clap them for it.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I mean there’s multiple signs to this, like the constant retcons and plot holes they’ve done. Obviously none of it is confirmed because the devs aren’t going to say that. As for your examples, my point was it’s a common theme in the ff series but somehow isn’t so prevalent in 14. Again it’s my opinion and it’s all subjective. I think there’s many ff’s that have 14 beat. It’s an okay story but to me that’s all it is. Maybe EW will change that by being darker and having some actual consequences but who can say.

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I have to say I don't see what retcons and plot holes you're referring to. For a story that's been going on for so long, I think they're doing a good job with being consistent and cohesive as best as possible. But now I'm just wondering why a story has to be dark to be good.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

For the same reason people feel the need to create topics just saying how amazing the game and community is and most people clap them for it.

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Point already discussed previously on why I find the threads you mentioned more useful than ones like this.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The constant fanservice. The lack of consequences because people are sensitive and can’t get over their beloved characters dying. People themselves have said it. Can’t kill off some of the mascot characters as it would just cause anger and would probably make people unsub. Hard disagree with 14 being the best story wise. It’s subjective anyways. But 14’s story barring like, maybe base shb is pretty meh. Full of plot armor and plot holes. Other ff’s don’t really suffer much from this.

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I don't agree with you at all, if you dislike the story so much skip it. Yes people have favorite characters we as the WoL are good guys. Don't know what to tell you except if the story isn't to your likeing and you want a darker game there are plenty out there. What is it with plot armor and holes obsession? Explain what that actually means as it pertains to the story? This is fantasy and aether is magic so where do you think we should suspend our belief at? This isn't about humans and earth where we get hit with a sword more times than not we die. Maybe if people would look at it like what it is fantasy instead of what happens in rl. Oh and for the record I haven't started ShB yet and most fan sites say Y'stola hasn't died once. She didn't die in a ARR or HW she shielded in ARR and was caught in the aether sea in HW in SB she got hit with a sword and was wounded. You can call people sensitive all you want because there is nothing wrong with being sensitive or having empathy for characters we travel with. It seems to me you maybe just are not enjoying the story which is a shame to me because it's very well done in my opinion.

This post is totally off topic I apologize, hope the OP finds a game they like to play. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Snorky

I don't agree with you at all, if you dislike the story so much skip it. Yes people have favorite characters we as the WoL are good guys. Don't know what to tell you except if the story isn't to your likeing and you want a darker game there are plenty out there. What is it with plot armor and holes obsession? Explain what that actually means as it pertains to the story? This is fantasy and aether is magic so where do you think we should suspend our belief at? This isn't about humans and earth where we get hit with a sword more times than not we die. Maybe if people would look at it like what it is fantasy instead of what happens in rl. Oh and for the record I haven't started ShB yet and most fan sites say Y'stola hasn't died once. She didn't die in a ARR or HW she shielded in ARR and was caught in the aether sea in HW in SB she got hit with a sword and was wounded. You can call people sensitive all you want because there is nothing wrong with being sensitive or having empathy for characters we travel with. It seems to me you maybe just are not enjoying the story which is a shame to me because it's very well done in my opinion.

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You haven’t played ShB which is where a majority of the plot holes and plot armor is relevant. I could give examples but they would be spoilers and i’ve already gone over them. The plot armor and plot holes comment is in regards to the actual lore in the story the writers themselves have made and how they’ve contradicted it. I know to separate reality from fiction but it’s the fact it’s in relativity of the in game lore. I joined the game for the story and i enjoyed it greatly in both ARR and HW which were both the good amount of dark that i enjoy. SB and ShB didn’t really do that and in the context of the story of both it didn’t make much sense.Also, you really shouldn’t use fan sites for the game. All of them are typically biased or made by people that haven’t paid attention in the story.

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Originally Posted by Eien713

I have to say I don't see what retcons and plot holes you're referring to. For a story that's been going on for so long, I think they're doing a good job with being consistent and cohesive as best as possible. But now I'm just wondering why a story has to be dark to be good.

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plot hole example

they explicitly state multiple times throughout the story, the farther he is from the tower, the weaker he gets. They even go so far as to show us this in Kholusia when he almost passes out from taking on a few sin eaters and has to rest. So when he’s taken to the bottom of the ocean, the farthest he’s ever been, while also having been shot, really he should be the weakest he’s ever been. Yet he’s somehow able to summon 7 wol for the hades fight, despite not even being able to do that while under the full power of the crystal tower, he failed 4-5 times and that was just to get us, one person. Meanwhile he’s able to replicate it 7 times while being the farthest from the tower he’s ever been. If they had at least had him sacrifice himself to do it that would make a bit more sense than what we got.

plot hole example number two:

The reason they try to give for Emet not killling Graha is that he needs his knowledge on the tower etc. Yet, we know that when an ascian hops into someones body, they obtain all of their memories. So the entire time Emet couldve just killed Graha and taken his memories which is what he wanted. But instead they just have him...capture him.

Plot armor example:

Them mentioning in HW how due to yshtola using flow, her health is supposed to be deteriorating yet that hasnt been mentioned once since then and shes even used flow again since then with no consequences.Along with her getting stabbed by zenos, whom had killed everyone else beforehand and he literally slashes her through her stomach but she somehow comes out unscathed.

I mention the darker themes because its a common theme in most ff games. I dont enjoy games where the victories are one sided and the protags always win whilst suffering 0 consequences. ARR and HW portrayed this well and its why i kept playing.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

You haven’t played ShB which is where a majority of the plot holes and plot armor is relevant. I could give examples but they would be spoilers and i’ve already gone over them. The plot armor and plot holes comment is in regards to the actual lore in the story the writers themselves have made and how they’ve contradicted it. I know to separate reality from fiction but it’s the fact it’s in relativity of the in game lore. I joined the game for the story and i enjoyed it greatly in both ARR and HW which were both the good amount of dark that i enjoy. SB and ShB didn’t really do that and in the context of the story of both it didn’t make much sense.Also, you really shouldn’t use fan sites for the game. All of them are typically biased or made by people that haven’t paid attention in the story.

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This was a Japanese fan site but I appreciate you not mentioning the spoilers. I will reserve my right to see for myself and revisit our conversation about plot armor and holes when I finish ShB. Until then I hope EW is great when it comes out.

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Originally Posted by Eien713

I didn't say it was the best story but one of the best. There's a difference.



I'm gonna have to ask for statements from the devs themselves about this. Moreover, not wanting to kill characters isn't so bad if the authors have originally never planned for them to die in the first place. And if you're gonna mention other FF games, I'd say other FF games did get their endings changed by bringing back dead characters. Potential spoilers ahead.

Examples are FF10 with FF10-2 and maybe FF13-2 with Lightning Returns (I never finished this game, so I'm not sure about Serah's fate).

What you're saying is like you're claiming you went inside the writers' heads and learned that the story was gonna be different but was changed to appease the masses.

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I mean look at Y'shtola. They toss in her doing the whole "sacrifice your life" thing for that vial in SHB, only for Emet to boop her back like it was nothing and render them both Mary Sues.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Plot hole examples

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I'll have to replay ShB to be able to get a fair judgement on the points you mentioned (since I played it a little over 2 years ago). The only thing I can comment on is that...

I remember that they didn't say Y'shtola's health was deteriorating but that her lifespan would get shortened.