FCs buying multiple plots

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

There have been many that have exchanged all sorts of RL and crypto currency for homes, had to verify as "money" is a bit ambiguous whereas gil is not.

---

I think you're just playing dumb or in bad faith. If we're discussing in-game related stuff and money is mentioned it's implied to refer to the in-game currency. Not real life money.

Aren't humans amazing? :3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

There have been many that have exchanged all sorts of RL and crypto currency for homes, had to verify as "money" is a bit ambiguous whereas gil is not.

---

Seriously? Why would you even assume that? Don't be disingenuous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nepentha

Seriously? Why would you even assume that? Don't be disingenuous.

---

Because I wouldn't put it past members of the hate club to do this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IckeDerTyp

Aren't humans amazing? :3

---

No, that's why we're not hyurs!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Because I wouldn't put it past members of the hate club to do this.

---

That's one hell of an ego you have there, to assume I hate you. My energies are best expended elsewhere.

Also, this is what I'm talking about that you never think things through. Disagreeing with you does not mean I am or would do RMT. This is a logical fallacy.

If I went with the same logic, I can safely assume YOU are RMTing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nepentha

That's one hell of an ego you have there, to assume I hate you. My energies are best expended elsewhere.

---

Tyey're It's clearly not spent on posting ideas or endeavouring to make this housing situation better... Yet they oddly get spent to maintain the abusive and oppressive status quo...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nepentha

Also, this is what I'm talking about that you never think things through. Disagreeing with you does not mean I am or would do RMT. This is a logical fallacy.

---

No, but many that vehemently object to everything I post are those that are actively participating in things that make this housing situation worse... like shell FCs among other things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nepentha

If I went with the same logic, I can safely assume YOU are RMTing.

---

This should be amusing, go ahead and prove your claim.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by True-to-Caesar

Reminds me of link showing the same guy with multiple FCs named like : XXX paladin XXX lancer etc.

One lass on Reddit, explaining that she likes to create and decorate homes for RP players and managed to buy multiple houses in the same ward. And couldn’t care less if others were homeless filthy peasants. In short, that’s their mindset : extreme greed and selfish.

The system is already bad enough to have this on top of it. They really should think about instanced housing because all these things do along with their housing supply issue is promoting RMT/Shady stuff and it’s just disheartening for people who simply want to own a single house.

---

while on the other hand it may alleviate the flipping market and the RMT stuff, instanced housing itself may not be the holy grail that people make it out to be, because the resources still wouldn't be infinite. Even inactive housing-instances take up space (one of the reasons we're dealing with a rather limited item-limit within the houses) and it actually may cause even more stress on the servers (at least in the beginning) because there'd be thousands of ppl swarming the housing servers.

In my opinion the only solution would be to completely destroy everything and build up housing from scratch but there still might be restrictions due to the old code construct and I don't see that happening. Also there currently are a big number of houses that ppl never really use and there'd be alot more of such ppl who can't be bothered with decorating their own space. Heck, I even find Mansions that people bought and pretty much left it untouched (not even bothering moving the gardening stuff away from the entrance etc. ^^) Since it costs to maintain servers it would be some kind of moneysink just to satisfy the "need" of housing ^^

Well,
maybe the Island sanctuary might be a little something to ease the demand of housing because often ppl just demand to be able to use the gardening stuff. And I've been given to understand that it'll probably be instanced (probably going to be a somewhat limited content, if I have to hazard a guess, though)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Tyey're It's clearly not spent on posting ideas or endeavouring to make this housing situation better... Yet they oddly get spent to maintain the abusive and oppressive status quo...

No, but many that vehemently object to everything I post are those that are actively participating in things that make this housing situation worse... like shell FCs among other things.

---

Where did I not object to shell FCs? Correcting you on the real problem, that being housing flippers and resellers, isn't condoning shell FCs. It's noting that they're less of an issue as far as I'm concerned. Reading comprehension has never been your strong suit, though.

There's that ego again. It's always all about you, eh? I've posted plenty of ideas in here and my thoughts on things unrelated to you. I also object to your ridiculous ideas, too. One can do both things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

This should be amusing, go ahead and prove your claim.

---

Insert facepalm emoji here. You first. Prove I'm RMTing or have given any hint of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nepentha

Where did I not object to shell FCs? Correcting you on the real problem, that being housing flippers and resellers, isn't condoning shell FCs.

---

One of the methods of house flipping and reselling involves selling FC houses, which are commonly done with shell FCs. Why are you being maliciously ignorant on this point?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nepentha

Prove I'm RMTing or have given any hint of it.

---

RMT = Real Money Transaction

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nepentha

Why should we lose our house because you think we should? We paid the money for it, we decorated it collectively.

---

Notice the bolded part? Given what's being discussed, I felt clarification on this point was necessary as the word "money" in this context is ambiguous. I mean, I said as much in a follow up post:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

There have been many that have exchanged all sorts of RL and crypto currency for homes, had to verify as "money" is a bit ambiguous whereas gil is not.

---

Why are you being so defensive about this?

Almagnus keep asking to prove facts but when get same treatment he turns 180.

Why are you so defensive? :')

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sotaris

Almagnus keep asking to prove facts but when get same treatment he turns 180.

Why are you so defensive? :')

---

You expect anything different from them at this point?

In any case, back onto the topic at hand (or what is left of it, at least!) The main issue is when the houses were purchased. Using what Jojoya had stated earlier as example, the Mateus "Hoarders". They did it when it was a dead world, only to get hate later when people claim they lost their chance when they had already shown they weren't going to move to Mateus to get the housing. In that case, the player has no ground to stand on.

I'm also more-so on the fence that an FC owning multiple houses is fine, provided they actually make use of the land they own. Such as growing in their gardens, decorating and such. Instead of just buying it for e-flexing power.

In that respect, I personally believe the separation of "Private" wards and "FC wards" could (on paper) fix a few issues. Splitting apart the house-hunting horde into smaller groups, based on their personal desires. Meaning server burden is more spread out, making it harder for bots to flood that particular district. (Note. Hard, not Impossible.) not to mention less overall competition per plot, meaning chances are higher. (were it not for the Lottery system.. Plenty of fangs on that topic, but I feel i've said my piece about that in other threads)

Doesn't fix the inherent supply issue we have, which is (again, on paper) an easy fix with just elevating the Apartments to house-esque levels of equality. So that the only reason to buy a ward house is the physical property, rather than gardening / size. But that is a pipe-dream at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cortawraith

Well,
maybe the Island sanctuary might be a little something to ease the demand of housing because often ppl just demand to be able to use the gardening stuff. And I've been given to understand that it'll probably be instanced (probably going to be a somewhat limited content, if I have to hazard a guess, though)

---

I suspect it's not going to help much because in the end gardening isn't that popular. We'd see a lot more garden plots in use for crossbreeding if it was truly a primary reason to own a house.

Access to gardening ends up more of an excuse tacked onto reasons why the player should have a house ("so I'll already have access if I ever decide to do it") than an actual goal. If someone's interest was solely in gardening, it's not difficult to find a house owner that isn't using their garden and ask to be made a tenant(the owner can always grant garden access but block access to furnishing placement/removal, etc.). That's what I did when I was without a house prior to 4.2 ward addition. A friend made me his tenant and I started actively using his garden patch (though he refused to place the Deluxe one because he hated the scarecrow lol).

YoshiP has been very clear that Island Sanctuaries would have no competitive element. The marketboard is the most competitive element in the game. That means whatever we can grow on the Island Sanctuaries will not be the same as what we are currently growing with gardening, nor will we be able to trade/sell whatever it is to other players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kenky

I'm also more-so on the fence that an FC owning multiple houses is fine, provided they actually make use of the land they own. Such as growing in their gardens, decorating and such. Instead of just buying it for e-flexing power.

---

I have to disagree. Every FC owning multiple houses via member alts is another player or FC unable to get a house. Why should certain FCs be special with access to double Grade 3 actions on a daily basis when a FC with only one house can only get is one every 3 days and FCs without a house can't get them at all?

I also doubt that there are that many legitimate FCs that are multiple house owners. Most of them are going to trace back to solo players operating shells FCs for personal wealth and flexing it at other players by using the same FC tag for all their FCs.

There are two things I'd like to see happen with Ishgard's release (since I know they're not going to give us the good instanced housing system that we need). First is to finally set up all characters on same world/same account as co-owners of a house so they're officially tenants. Second is for them to crack down on the multiple house ownership that has been occurring since the 4.2 changes. If someone had ownership of the house (along with leadership of the FC if it's a FC house) prior to 4.2, then they're grandfathered in. I have no problems with that. It's those who have purchased additional houses since 4.2 that SE needs to address.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kenky

You expect anything different from them at this point?

In any case, back onto the topic at hand (or what is left of it, at least!) The main issue is when the houses were purchased. Using what Jojoya had stated earlier as example, the Mateus "Hoarders". They did it when it was a dead world, only to get hate later when people claim they lost their chance when they had already shown they weren't going to move to Mateus to get the housing. In that case, the player has no ground to stand on.

I'm also more-so on the fence that an FC owning multiple houses is fine, provided they actually make use of the land they own. Such as growing in their gardens, decorating and such. Instead of just buying it for e-flexing power.

In that respect, I personally believe the separation of "Private" wards and "FC wards" could (on paper) fix a few issues. Splitting apart the house-hunting horde into smaller groups, based on their personal desires. Meaning server burden is more spread out, making it harder for bots to flood that particular district. (Note. Hard, not Impossible.) not to mention less overall competition per plot, meaning chances are higher. (were it not for the Lottery system.. Plenty of fangs on that topic, but I feel i've said my piece about that in other threads)

Doesn't fix the inherent supply issue we have, which is (again, on paper) an easy fix with just elevating the Apartments to house-esque levels of equality. So that the only reason to buy a ward house is the physical property, rather than gardening / size. But that is a pipe-dream at this point.

---

Awww I remember when personal housing first dropped those were the days. Plots open everywhere barely anyone around, handful of medium and large plots were open. Snagged my first plot in the lavender beds 1st ward plot 55 took me two weeks to gather the gil paid 2.8mil. Stayed on that spot until SHB then transferred to shiro then to the Goblet when I found a Med open late one night. Miss those days of seeing plots open and people knowing they had time :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

I have to disagree. Every FC owning multiple houses via member alts is another player or FC unable to get a house. Why should certain FCs be special with access to double Grade 3 actions on a daily basis when a FC with only one house can only get is one every 3 days and FCs without a house can't get them at all?

---

I more-so meant genuine FCs owning multiple housing is fine, provided they use what they have. At the end of the day, they got the plot through (for examples sake) legitimate means so nobody can yell at them for being underhanded. If a player can go out of their way to get more things faster, than a small percentage of players will try to get those things faster. Putting a limit on how fast you can gain things is always a slippery slope and, depending on the playerbase or company in question, can mean disaster if improperly handled.

Shell-FCs do not get any remorse whatsoever. They shouldn't even be a thing, but the "solution" to fixing the shell-FC issue.. Will unintentionally harm smaller communities (single-digit FCs for example) and drive people to have to actually cull their numbers to ensure they have active players to avoid the metaphorical axe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

YoshiP has been very clear that Island Sanctuaries would have no competitive element. The marketboard is the most competitive element in the game. That means whatever we can grow on the Island Sanctuaries will not be the same as what we are currently growing with gardening, nor will we be able to trade/sell whatever it is to other players.

---

That's something I want more clarification on, as I interpreted that to mean "solo instance" and not "cannot generate stuff that can be sold".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

I have to disagree. Every FC owning multiple houses via member alts is another player or FC unable to get a house. Why should certain FCs be special with access to double Grade 3 actions on a daily basis when a FC with only one house can only get is one every 3 days and FCs without a house can't get them at all?

---

What if it's one legitimate FC and multiple members have personal houses? I would be fine with that tbh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

I also doubt that there are that many legitimate FCs that are multiple house owners. Most of them are going to trace back to solo players operating shells FCs for personal wealth and flexing it at other players by using the same FC tag for all their FCs.

---

This, on the other hand, needs to stop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

First is to finally set up all characters on same world/same account as co-owners of a house so they're officially tenants.

---

IMO this should have happened a long time ago, and all alts for the owning account should just be owners (and not tenants), and everyone should get a port to all the houses they own (so players get grandfathered in). And then SE forces them to release ALL but one property should the player ever wish to relo somewhere else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

Second is for them to crack down on the multiple house ownership that has been occurring since the 4.2 changes. If someone had ownership of the house (along with leadership of the FC if it's a FC house) prior to 4.2, then they're grandfathered in. I have no problems with that. It's those who have purchased additional houses since 4.2 that SE needs to address.

---

This needs to be done carefully and not with an arbitrary line in the sand over date of acquisition. Shell FCs need to go away, and tbh, I don't care when they were created as long as the shell FCs (and ONLY the shell FCs) either get axed or have their houses freed and unable to reacquire land until certain conditions are met that would be basically invisible to a legitimate FC. SE should have never allowed these FCs to exist in the first place as they exemplify "this is why we can't have anything nice".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kenky

Shell-FCs do not get any remorse whatsoever. They shouldn't even be a thing, but the "solution" to fixing the shell-FC issue.. Will unintentionally harm smaller communities (single-digit FCs for example) and drive people to have to actually cull their numbers to ensure they have active players to avoid the metaphorical axe.

---

SE's inaction is going to cause that to happen because they didn't seriously address this issue when people started getting wards (likely because they never expected that FFXIV would have the population issues it is having now).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Awww I remember when personal housing first dropped those were the days. Plots open everywhere barely anyone around, handful of medium and large plots were open. Snagged my first plot in the lavender beds 1st ward plot 55 took me two weeks to gather the gil paid 2.8mil. Stayed on that spot until SHB then transferred to shiro then to the Goblet when I found a Med open late one night. Miss those days of seeing plots open and people knowing they had time :(

---

Those were the days when you had to scrable 50m as a collective to even afford a small house for the FC.

I remember my first small was like 5m and I remember the same view, empty lots literally everywhere. 2013-2014 was a good time to play lol

I remember in early 2017, walking into the Beds housing district and seeing a little cluster of small plots, I think they were about 7 mil, maybe a little less. I picked the one I liked and put everything I had into buying lol, Then a few months later, I managed to nab a medium someone had got rid of in Ward 1 while just cruising around. I think it was like 17 mil. Very soon though after I had first purchased the small, one person with several alts bought the other 4 small houses in that cluster. I just had the med house for years til my hubby decided to quit the game leaving me with a small house FC on my hands too. I keep it mainly to run subs/ships. I am not really a raider anymore so it is something I enjoy in my old age hehe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Notice the bolded part? Given what's being discussed, I felt clarification on this point was necessary as the word "money" in this context is ambiguous. I mean, I said as much in a follow up post:

Why are you being so defensive about this?

---

Man you read into things. You made an assertion. I'm asking you to prove it. Which.... you have not done yet. Because leaps of logic aren't proof of anything. Of course you know this and are just being disingenuous again because you think you're oh so clever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kenky

You expect anything different from them at this point?

In any case, back onto the topic at hand (or what is left of it, at least!) The main issue is when the houses were purchased. Using what Jojoya had stated earlier as example, the Mateus "Hoarders". They did it when it was a dead world, only to get hate later when people claim they lost their chance when they had already shown they weren't going to move to Mateus to get the housing. In that case, the player has no ground to stand on.

I'm also more-so on the fence that an FC owning multiple houses is fine, provided they actually make use of the land they own. Such as growing in their gardens, decorating and such. Instead of just buying it for e-flexing power.

In that respect, I personally believe the separation of "Private" wards and "FC wards" could (on paper) fix a few issues. Splitting apart the house-hunting horde into smaller groups, based on their personal desires. Meaning server burden is more spread out, making it harder for bots to flood that particular district. (Note. Hard, not Impossible.) not to mention less overall competition per plot, meaning chances are higher. (were it not for the Lottery system.. Plenty of fangs on that topic, but I feel i've said my piece about that in other threads)

Doesn't fix the inherent supply issue we have, which is (again, on paper) an easy fix with just elevating the Apartments to house-esque levels of equality. So that the only reason to buy a ward house is the physical property, rather than gardening / size. But that is a pipe-dream at this point.

---

Eh, I tend to teeter away from telling people what to do with their houses. Multi-home owning in general tweaks me the wrong way. (Those that aren't grandfathered at least.) But only because of the limited housing. If SE were to implement instanced housing or add more than enough wards, or even increase the size of apartments, I think this wouldn't be a problem. Who cares if someone owns multiple homes at that point, everyone has reasonable access to housing that isn't a tiny one room apartment.

Ok, gonna gather thoughts and not do a massive series of edits as that's just generally cleaner....

Let's start with the entire thread:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nepentha

No. My FC has three active players atm (including me). The rest either play very sporadically or are taking a break before the expac. Why should we lose our house because you think we should? We paid the money for it, we decorated it collectively. We have FC rooms (including ones for our members who are out on breaks and probably will return in Nov.) We've got a workshop with everything unlocked and both airships and submersibles at max level. We have friends come over from other FCs to hang out or roleplay.

Why should we lose all of that? Because we're one active member short? In an FC with 30 members? (18 separate accounts, and a bunch of alts).

People need to stop trying to take away from players. This is not a fix. The fix is pressuring SE to either give us more wards or finally institute instanced housing larger than just apartments.

---

Given the context of what we're discussing (as RMT is known to be used with shell FCs which are known to be used by FCs to flex with housing), I felt this was ambiguous, which is why I asked for clarification:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Can you clarify this point?

---

And you did with:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nepentha

Very simple, we as an FC together collected the gil to pay for us to get exactly (1) house. That we all share.

---

I responded saying I was only seeking clarification on that point and why with:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

There have been many that have exchanged all sorts of RL and crypto currency for homes, had to verify as "money" is a bit ambiguous whereas gil is not.

---

You do not accept this explanation because (to you) apparently I'm some sort of spawn of Zodiark:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nepentha

Seriously? Why would you even assume that? Don't be disingenuous.

---

Knowing that a lot of the people that do not like me do so because I am fighting to get the exploits in the FC and housing system that are enabling them to take on more land than they rightfully should, and many of those are part of the hate club, that's why I gave you the honest answer of:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Because I wouldn't put it past members of the hate club to do this.

---

Again, I'm not actually accusing you of anything (you're doing that yourself quite well at this point), and we proceed to go through the entire thing where you think I have accused you of something when it's pretty clear you aren't actually reading what's being written.

And the great irony of this:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nepentha

That's one hell of an ego you have there, to assume I hate you. My energies are best expended elsewhere.

---

If that were true, why did you feel the need to go on attack mode over a complete non-issue?

Methinks thou dost project too much....

talking to yourself in 3rd person is kinda ... cringe and being disingenuous at the same time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Deleting all this because great wall of text and my god the ego.LOL

---

All I can think is this.

https://media.tenor.com/images/db146...1cc5/tenor.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nepentha

All I can think is this.

https://media.tenor.com/images/db146...1cc5/tenor.gif

---

Apology accepted =)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Apology accepted =)

---

Except I didn't apologize. But do keep going, the conspiracy tinfoil hat thing you have going on here is great.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Apology accepted =)

---

You should apologize to Milkie first.