WoW devs sent a congrats card to the FF14 team

Not sure why this is even posted. They congratulated SE on Shadowbringer launch iirc. Some nice PR points is all it is.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Bruh

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i disagree adding Remake in there honestly. Those characters are so safe from any kindof death they even saved Biggs, Jessie and Wedge. Not to mention Zack. So ye---ah no. Hell even BARRET can't die. He was literally brought back right after a boss.

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

i disagree adding Remake in there honestly. Those characters are so safe from any kindof death they even saved Biggs, Jessie and Wedge. Not to mention Zack. So ye---ah no. Hell even BARRET can't die. He was literally brought back right after a boss.

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Except they didn’t save jessie or wedge. Regardless there’s still many more consequences in 7 than in ShB lmao. Especially after the new integrade dlc. You know what that sounds like with Barrett and biggs though? Graha...Yshtola...Thancred...Estinien....

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

i disagree adding Remake in there honestly. Those characters are so safe from any kindof death they even saved Biggs, Jessie and Wedge. Not to mention Zack. So ye---ah no. Hell even BARRET can't die. He was literally brought back right after a boss.

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It remains to be seen if they survived for real, they're present in an alternate timeline or if they're just being kept around longer than they were present for in the original game as a consequence of everything being fleshed out more. They could very well just be on hold to given them a bit more time in the spotlight before being fated to perish later on.

Though I was more referring to the consequences and stakes surrounding the destruction of the reactors and the falling plate. The antagonists in FFVII are allowed to counter the protagonists effectively whereas in FFXIV they are rarely afforded that luxury. The result being that the antagonists are generally wiped out to the last man and/or completely dismantled. Whereas in the likes of FFXII and FFVIIR it is outright acknowledged that such wouldn't be possible or desirable as it would effect too many innocent people just wanting to go about their day to day lives.

I think that FFXIV tries to capture similar vibes, but then writes itself into a corner and just ends up utterly destroying everything even remotely morally grey in favour of forcing everyone involved to 'move on' - but only ever at the behest of the protagonists and not through allowing characters and factions to operate independently and in a way that feels natural and consequential.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Obviously you aren't happy with it you continue to say that over and over. Let me say for me at least it was the best xpac to date. Different strokes for different folks as they say. And on topic I think it's pretty neat of the WOW team to send the director that card.

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I think it's the best and emotional expac but I don't think they're wrong either tbh

Forum staff should start deleting dumb threads that go for too long...

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Originally Posted by Leloa

Forum staff should start deleting dumb threads that go for too long...

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ahh yes because we should have a vote because I guarantee threads asking for Male viera would have been mass voted out of existence by a majority of the community. In a sea of complaints this is a positive post showing humans being nice to each other. The Blizzard devs seem genuinely excited that Yoshi P posted the card.

It is odd this got reposted by a Blizzard dev from what looks like 2 years after it actually happened. Like one person saw it and then a Blizzard dev saw that who had signed the card and then it spread from there because well Blizzard dev commenting on something about FF14 lol

WoW's dev team is probably relieved to have a serious competitor for the first time in ages. It means that instead of struggling to figure out their own vision for the future of wow (which hasn't exactly been a glowing success recently), they can go back to do what they do best: copy from their competitors.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

In a sea of complaints this is a positive post showing humans being nice to each other.

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Nah, it only shows me that someone can't get WoW or Blizzard out of their head rofl.

It's nice to see camaraderie amongst game developers. We need more positivity is this day and age.

I can put down my distain for blizzard to admit that they've done some things right and give them kudos where it's due.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

In order for 'benefit of the doubt' to be given, there needs to be something there to make you think twice. Benefit of the doubt is something you give when someone fucks up once. That's when your 'benefit of the doubt', ergo, a second chance, is given. Blizzard seems to consistently shit all over WoW's player base without ever really giving them any reason to think that they feel bad about it for even a second. There's a reason even WoW dedicated youtubers, like say, Bellular, are dipping into FFXIV where they never would have if WoW were still in a good state.. because Blizzard is giving them nothing.

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Yep. This is exactly how it is right now for a lot of people. A lot of people such as myself tried to hold out as long as we could hoping things would be at least semi decent again. Now? There's no hope for that, hence the exodus.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

That's because game development takes more than months. That content has probably been in the pipeline since before the WoW expansion launched, or shortly thereafter. That's why it usually takes until the end of an expansion to "fix" it. The real problem for WoW is that the community has no trust in the devs and isn't willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. It just seems like there is an aura of negativity that infects everything in the game.

There are lots of things in FFXIV that have taken a long time to fix or for them to respond, but because the playerbase is more forgiving and understanding on the most part, it doesn't negatively affect the game as much.

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I don't want to hear about this "benefit of the doubt" thing when they stopped giving players reasons to give them that a long, long time ago. Sure, the new patch will bring back some players, but it's probably not going to be as many as one would think, especially since the PTR's data is readily available to test and view. Based on that, nothing much is changing. They are doubling down on horrible systems, if not straight up making what was there worse. It doesn't matter if something is stuck in the pipeline for a certain amount of time. If the players hate it, changes need to be made. The devs ignore that feedback despite having a PTR and saying "we hear you" and do absolutely nothing anyway, since the game is being designed only for themselves and their "raid or die" mentality. It stopped being a game for most everyone. That is where change needs to happen first and foremost.

It's a nice gesture, PR or not.

It's worth remembering the WoW dev team do not represent the company as a whole. They don't have the final say on things like forced engagement metrics, release dates or marketing ploys. They just make games, they're human and it's not that unusual they feel friendly towards others who share the same job and understand the struggles and upsides that entails. Speaking of Blizzard as a single entity isn't entirely accurate when it's made up of a lot of different divisions and people and the decisions players dislike are mostly from the higher-ups.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

That's because game development takes more than months. That content has probably been in the pipeline since before the WoW expansion launched, or shortly thereafter. That's why it usually takes until the end of an expansion to "fix" it. The real problem for WoW is that the community has no trust in the devs and isn't willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. It just seems like there is an aura of negativity that infects everything in the game.

There are lots of things in FFXIV that have taken a long time to fix or for them to respond, but because the playerbase is more forgiving and understanding on the most part, it doesn't negatively affect the game as much.

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For 18 years the wow community has been let down by the developers. Now to be far the first 6 years were fun. That would be the expansions of Classic wow, Burning Crusade, and Wrath of the Lich King. After that the developers seemed to not give a damn anymore. The gamers NOT having trust in the developers is no one's fault but the developers. When you purposely shove things "Unfun" down a gamers throat that is when you start to see the resentment of your player base. Such as it is now in the wow community. I should know....I was one of them for 18 years. Just left the game a month ago.

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Originally Posted by WoW

Nah, it only shows me that someone can't get WoW or Blizzard out of their head rofl.

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If you would like to see me complaining about something else go see the Tank forums. I am quite angry about Role Quest in Endwalker but GENERALLY DISCUSSING this is related to FF14.

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

I still kindof want a crossover with WoW. I dunno how that could work but I want it.

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Headpiece glam for glowing eyes? Au ra eyes are close but just don't totally scratch the itch.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Headpiece glam for glowing eyes? Au ra eyes are close but just don't totally scratch the itch.

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I meant storyline wise when I mentioned I dunno how it'll work. Glam is easy enough. Just take and give the best set designs to each game. What I'd love to see done is how it'll effect lore and both playerbases. Think about it. One day you log in to see WoW players with their characters running and stuff. And connecting with them to do WoW raids while XIV players doing the same thing on WoW's side. Be kindof epic if done right.

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

Glam is easy enough. Just take and give the best set designs to each game.

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Best set design by what metric?

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

I still kindof want a crossover with WoW. I dunno how that could work but I want it.

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I wouldn't want Blizzard and their Bullshit developers anywhere near FFXIV. No thanks. I hope that is one idea that never makes it into fruition............LIKE EVER.

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Originally Posted by Darksummoner

I wouldn't want Blizzard and their Bullshit developers anywhere near FFXIV. No thanks. I hope that is one idea that never makes it into fruition............LIKE EVER.

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To be completely fair, they themselves probably would not be touching the game. They'd just provide the source material for the FF XIV devs to work with, though they'd obviously have a say as to how it's all presented, which is fair. Personally, I'd be okay with a crossover. I just don't think it'll ever happen.

About the only thing I'd want from a WoW crossover is some of the mounts. I'd pay to get my raptors back.

Of course, if they did do mounts, it'd probably be a Stormwind war horse and/or an Orgrimmar wolf, but I can dream.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

About the only thing I'd want from a WoW crossover is some of the mounts. I'd pay to get my raptors back.

Of course, if they did do mounts, it'd probably be a Stormwind war horse and/or an Orgrimmar wolf, but I can dream.

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Oh man, a wolf mount from the WoW universe would be amazing.

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Originally Posted by Darksummoner

I wouldn't want Blizzard and their Bullshit developers anywhere near FFXIV. No thanks. I hope that is one idea that never makes it into fruition............LIKE EVER.

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So hear me out.

1. Activision buys Square Enix
2. Ion HazExcuses gets fired
3. Yoshi P is put in charge of both MMO's but wait!!
4. You know how we never see the other side of Azeroth!??! Well we also never see the other side of Eorzea. The cross over is LITERALLY crossing to the other side of the planet!

Boom both games fixed with the best of each and the worst trash thrown to the curb.

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Originally Posted by Darksummoner

I wouldn't want Blizzard and their Bullshit developers anywhere near FFXIV. No thanks. I hope that is one idea that never makes it into fruition............LIKE EVER.

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Upon thinking about it I share your opinion. Seeing how they are losing their everything right now. Tho I still kindof want one.. maybe only cause I like crossovers. - A comicbook fan so yeah- Maybe if SE was in charge of the whole thing. Kindof like how Capcom did the Vs series in the late 90s.

I'm curious to see the MMO Riot Games is making, seeing as it will have the involvement of a former Blizz dev (Ghostcrawler), but yes I wouldn't want to see the current lot come near XIV. Then again, neither would I want Nomura near it but that happened. :p

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

To be completely fair, they themselves probably would not be touching the game. They'd just provide the source material for the FF XIV devs to work with, though they'd obviously have a say as to how it's all presented, which is fair. Personally, I'd be okay with a crossover. I just don't think it'll ever happen.

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Yes, I think for a cross-over it'd be alright, since they're inherently limited in scope.

I’d rather no more major crossovers period personally, unless they’re simply labeled as events. Seeing as to how much the nier raids flopped,i wouldn’t want something of that scale ever again as a crossover as i just see it as a waste of resources.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I’d rather no more major crossovers period personally, unless they’re simply labeled as events. Seeing as to how much the nier raids flopped,i wouldn’t want something of that scale ever again as a crossover as i just see it as a waste of resources.

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Definitely no more cross overs that span the entire expansion, taking the place of content that is Final Fantasy. Events are free game!

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

So hear me out.

1. Activision buys Square Enix
2. Ion HazExcuses gets fired
3. Yoshi P is put in charge of both MMO's but wait!!
4. You know how we never see the other side of Azeroth!??! Well we also never see the other side of Eorzea. The cross over is LITERALLY crossing to the other side of the planet!

Boom both games fixed with the best of each and the worst trash thrown to the curb.

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I like where you're head is at...but at the same time, why would you want to do that to Poor YoshiP?!
Have him Manage 2 MMOs?~ To ask him to pull an ARR2.0 with WoW. Just...my lord, lets not kill this man.

Plus, you know Activision might hear what wonderful things YoshiP wants to do for the game, but will get shot down because it will likely get in the way of Monetization schemes.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

So hear me out.

1. Activision buys Square Enix
2. Ion HazExcuses gets fired
3. Yoshi P is put in charge of both MMO's but wait!!
4. You know how we never see the other side of Azeroth!??! Well we also never see the other side of Eorzea. The cross over is LITERALLY crossing to the other side of the planet!

Boom both games fixed with the best of each and the worst trash thrown to the curb.

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I was ready to hear you out until I read #1. Now all I have to say is "hard pass".

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

So hear me out.

1. Activision buys Square Enix
2. Ion HazExcuses gets fired
3. Yoshi P is put in charge of both MMO's but wait!!
4. You know how we never see the other side of Azeroth!??! Well we also never see the other side of Eorzea. The cross over is LITERALLY crossing to the other side of the planet!

Boom both games fixed with the best of each and the worst trash thrown to the curb.

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1. SE Buys Blizzard and Vicarious Visions
2. Vicarious Visions goes on an absolute remake spree of SE games, besides making ports that work (some of the FF ports / remakes have had issues in the past), also include remakes of Legacy of Kain / Soul Reaver
3. I don't relish people losing their jobs, so Ion does whatever makes Ion happy and is good for games
4. Yoshi P keeps making games he likes, but instills a sense of cadence to the rest of the company (as I've heard some devs at SE can get stuck in limbo for extended periods of time)
5. Old philosophies that made Blizzard great are resurrected and shared with SE (like "Soon(tm)"). None of this FFXIV 1.0, FFXV (I had fun, but imo, clearly felt there were incomplete sections and could have had a bit more oven time).
6. WoW and FFXIV are intentionally designed at lightly different target audiences for their remainder life, with some overlap naturally, and a release schedule that ensures that someone who subscribes to both is always going to have new content (FFXIV is in lul? guess what that means WoW is not).
7. Yoshida or Vicarious fix my wc3 baby, and maybe make wc4. K thx.
8. SE buys CD Projekt Red and boops their snoot for releasing Cyberpunk in the state that they did, SE learns from CD Projekt Red how to monetize their games in more friendly ways
9. Release Witcher 4, Cyberpunk 2
10. Makes another Deus Ex
11. Makes another Soul Reaver

Alternative SE just makes good games with the team and resources they have already, that'd be nice too :3.

Btw, Soul reaver. . . It's just sitting there. . . Lol.

SE buys Sega and forces them to make HQ Sonic games again. Picture a Sonic game with a SE wallet pool. SE also teams up with Atlus and we get a Persona/Final Fantasy title. Or a Threads of Fate with Skies of A thing.

Either all of that or Capcom buys Sega and we FINALLY get Worlds Unite in game form and get a Sonic vs Megaman game made by old capcom who goes back to the awesome 2D sprite work of Marvel vs Capcom 2. Omg... That'll be awesome T.T

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

SE buys Sega and forces them to make HQ Sonic games again.

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I'd be perfectly fine with this arrangement. I miss having good Sonic games.

Some studios just slowly wither, either through loss of talent, loss of vision, or just the general entropy of things. No need to relish and revel in it, just look and go on about your way. On topic, this was a nice (if fishing for pr) thing.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

I mean there's nothing surprising about any of this. WoW playerbase leans more towards people on their 30s-40s whereas FFXIV's demographic consists mostly of kids and teens, and kids and teens love to engage in "Team Jacob vs Team Edward" arguments that the rest of the world simply don't care about.

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Ever heard of Alliance vs Horde or pro-Sylvanas vs anti-Sylvanas?

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

But Haruka isn't wrong. WoW is living rent free in OP's head.

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Assuming they've played WoW for a long time, it's understandable. They've probably spent lots of money on it (or time spent farming gold to buy tokens).

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

That's because game development takes more than months. That content has probably been in the pipeline since before the WoW expansion launched, or shortly thereafter. That's why it usually takes until the end of an expansion to "fix" it. The real problem for WoW is that the community has no trust in the devs and isn't willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. It just seems like there is an aura of negativity that infects everything in the game.

There are lots of things in FFXIV that have taken a long time to fix or for them to respond, but because the playerbase is more forgiving and understanding on the most part, it doesn't negatively affect the game as much.

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I don't really see much of a difference. In both communities, unless they're getting exactly what they want, they will always complain.

The thing is, FFXIV has the advantage of not changing things drastically often, so the community has been trained to either not expect drastic change, or to expect them in slow measures. WoW seemingly keeps trying to reinvent itself often, so when people don't like those changes, the community has been trained to want things to change again (usually change back) to get what they want.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Don’t really get the constant double standards in regards to the WoW vs 14 where WoW is always the bad one and 14 is the holy child.

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Not really seeing a double standard in a FFXIV forum. More people are likely to prefer FFXIV here. It'd be weird if that's not the case.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

So hear me out.

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Sure...

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4. You know how we never see the other side of Azeroth!??! Well we also never see the other side of Eorzea. The cross over is LITERALLY crossing to the other side of the planet!

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... No!

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Definitely no more cross overs that span the entire expansion, taking the place of content that is Final Fantasy. Events are free game!

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I disagree. All contents in FFXIV are Final Fantasy contents. And the devs should not be restricted creatively with whatever collaboration they want to do. They just need to make it work if they want to be ambitious about the scope of the collaboration. And I personally think the Yorha series still works within the context of the FFXIV, although the ending could be better.

For a WoW collaboration, what's the one thing that WoW is primarily known for: their raids. I think a single alliance-size raid (like DR) would be good. Obviously, this wouldn't have to span the entire expansion, but if they wanted to, and seeing as how much of a fan Yoshida is of Blizzard, they could make it another series. Just get a more straightforward storyteller to do it.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I was ready to hear you out until I read #1. Now all I have to say is "hard pass".

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Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing it just to get the chance of letting Yoshida have a better budget for FFXIV. That said, that would probably kill off DQX and FFXI as I don't think A-B would want to have four running MMORPGs. It might also kill off FFXIV if even two are too much for them.

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

Upon thinking about it I share your opinion. Seeing how they are losing their everything right now. Tho I still kindof want one.. maybe only cause I like crossovers. - A comicbook fan so yeah- Maybe if SE was in charge of the whole thing. Kindof like how Capcom did the Vs series in the late 90s.

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I wouldn't mind so much if the developers would pay more attention to their player base. But Blizzard has a huge reputation for ignoring their player base and trying to make their players do things that most of them have shown and said they hate. Blizzard to me is only out for the money and simply want to keep the player logged into their game hours to do boring systems. 18 years they had to get it right and are barely just now trying to listen to their players but only cause a huge influx of players have left the game.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Don’t really get the constant double standards in regards to the WoW vs 14 where WoW is always the bad one and 14 is the holy child.

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To be fair, Look at all the people leaving WoW now tho. I'm not saying XIV is perfect and is always the good one... but in this context it really is. WoW is suffering hardcore and Blizzard as a whole has been suffering since " Do you not have phones? ". XIV meanwhile has been growing and gaining - imo- WAY too much attention. I do wish XIV added more raid bosses, but other than that I can't think of anything Wow has that I'd want in XIV. I seen too many people complain about Blizzard's change for the sake of change and messing up systems over there to ask for anything they have to be put here.

I currently like what XIV has and am grateful they don't follow Blizzard throw everything at the wall and NOT fix it additude. D:

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

To be fair, Look at all the people leaving WoW now tho. I'm not saying XIV is perfect and is always the good one... but in this context it really is. WoW is suffering hardcore and Blizzard as a whole has been suffering since " Do you not have phones? ". XIV meanwhile has been growing and gaining - imo- WAY too much attention. I do wish XIV added more raid bosses, but other than that I can't think of anything Wow has that I'd want in XIV. I seen too many people complain about Blizzard's change for the sake of change and messing up systems over there to ask for anything they have to be put here.

I currently like what XIV has and am grateful they don't follow Blizzard throw everything at the wall and NOT fix it additude. D:

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I mean, the thing is there’s no other good mmo’s at this time, so ofc 14 is going to shine when the other big competitor starts to go downhill, but i’d argue 14 has almost as much problems as WoW, people are just more lenient on 14 because they’re fine being spoonfed things. Sometimes change is good. I see people talking about how 14 rarely changes anything drastically or quick. That can be a bad thing too. Just look at the crappy housing system that hasn’t been looked at in 6 years. I’d say that could certainly use some drastic change...

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I mean, the thing is there’s no other good mmo’s at this time, so ofc 14 is going to shine when the other big competitor starts to go downhill, but i’d argue 14 has almost as much problems as WoW

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Both games have a lot of problems, but for many, WoW's problems are gamebreaking where Blizzard take things that work perfectly well or are a lot of fun and destroy them while doubling down on and refusing to change the things players hate, while FF14's problems are just annoyances, some large, but the game as a whole remains enjoyable.
WoW's team also have an extremely poor history with PR and arrogance. They tend to showcase a "we know best" attitude while ff14's devs give the impression of caring about feedback.

Overall it leads to resentment. People loved WoW. Personally I feel it used to be the better game compared to ff14. Having a dislikable team completely wreck something you loved, sit back with a smug attitude and expect you to pay them for it is naturally going to generate bad feelings.

But you're right there's no amazing mmo on the market right now. There's definitely a good opportunity for competition.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Both games have a lot of problems, but for many, WoW's problems are gamebreaking where Blizzard take things that work perfectly well or are a lot of fun and destroy them while doubling down on and refusing to change the things players hate, while FF14's problems are just annoyances, some large, but the game as a whole remains enjoyable.
WoW's team also have an extremely poor history with PR and arrogance. They tend to showcase a "we know best" attitude while ff14's devs give the impression of caring about feedback.

Overall it leads to resentment. People loved WoW. Personally I feel it used to be the better game compared to ff14. Having a dislikable team completely wreck something you loved, sit back with a smug attitude and expect you to pay them for it is naturally going to generate bad feelings.

But you're right there's no amazing mmo on the market right now. There's definitely a good opportunity for competition.

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Yeah, personally i’m really excited for some of the upcoming ones(ashes of creation,blue protocol,pantheon) as they seem to do a lot of things both WoW and 14 haven’t done right in forever. Would be nice to finally have multiple forms of competition as well.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Yeah, personally i’m really excited for some of the upcoming ones(ashes of creation,blue protocol,pantheon) as they seem to do a lot of things both WoW and 14 haven’t done right in forever. Would be nice to finally have multiple forms of competition as well.

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What do you want them to do? Cause I get the feeling you really don't like XIV at all. Cause anytime someone mentions something good about it you comment with something bad almost instantly. I could be reading it wrong but that's the feeling I'm getting from you. :C

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

But you're right there's no amazing mmo on the market right now. There's definitely a good opportunity for competition.

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It's nearly impossible to break into the MMO Market. The content/resource snowballing means it'll be basically impossible for a new MMORPG to offer even a fraction of what an established MMO like WoW can. Then we have the sub model and time investment; which means people will only play 1 MMO at a time, and will be very reluctant to leave whichever MMO they've invested the most time and money into.

It's a weird landscape that makes real competition very rare. It's why the genre has been stilted for so long with the same few dated games controlling the market.