Is there a reason SE is not trying to future proof content AT ALL?

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Originally Posted by Imora

Heads up, Ion isn't responsible for that crap, the bean counters at Activision are. They make more money if you stay subbed. They don't care if you log in once a week for five minutes, or not at all.

Stupid cat hit my hand making me post early and cant edit on mobile.

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He's the lead developer of the game. Of course he is responsible for a lot of what goes on. Not everything, but certainly a lot.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

He's the lead developer of the game. Of course he is responsible for a lot of what goes on. Not everything, but certainly a lot.

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Even if he didn't want to, it's not in his hands.

His job is to implement what the higher ups want. No more, no less.

Personally, I'm sick of Torghast and the new grind crud in 9.1 is making me ill thinking about, but I have a raid team, unlike here, so I'll be playing for that at least. Raid and encounter development is still fabulous.

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Originally Posted by Imora

Heads up, Ion isn't responsible for that crap, the bean counters at Activision are. They make more money if you stay subbed. They don't care if you log in once a week for five minutes, or not at all.

Stupid cat hit my hand making me post early and cant edit on mobile.

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If you view the webpage in desktop mode you can edit on mobile, the button is in different places based on what browser you're using but usually it's in one of the easy to get to buttons near your address bar. Request desktop site, desktop site, etc. It'll no longer be optimized for mobile, but most phones these days are more computer than 'mobile' anyways lol. Besides missing features sometimes my phone works better with the desktop variant anyways.

There's free 3-day log-in event every few months, i can usually clear everything new in those 3 days, that they spent 3-6 months making.
I think it's bad design for a game to work like that - there's not much incentive to even sub when i can do almost everything for an entire expansion, during free log-in events. I wouldn’t be able to clear all savage content, that's about it.
They spent so much time making all this content, and 95% of it is mostly irrelevant. I wouldn’t want to develop a game, where most of the content is Dead every patch cycle.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Burn out was rare in older mmos that had alot more meat and grind in them. And this was simply because you never really did the same thing day to day at all. Older mmos were not a log in do dailies then do weekly resets style game like most modern mmos are.

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Okay, I'm sorry but this is just patently false. EQ was the king of camp and grind. Same zones, same camps, over and over and over and over. It was the only way to level. People wanted the most efficient, which is why places like Highhold Keep had people standing in line for hours to get into groups there.

And that's on the nights you weren't spending the night keying or gearing up for this or that raid that your team was going to tackle on their given raid nights. And even that was a pretty standard pattern. You could alter your faction...by killing the same thing ad nauseum. It was very easy to burn out in older MMOs. People were just afraid to do anything else because then you'd get left behind.

If anything, they pre-emptively future proofed Zadnor too soon. Enemies scale horribly with bigger groups and the final dungeon apparently gives a really big buff to smaller parties, so you don't even need anywhere close to 48 to clear. I heard that groups of 4 are already clearing.

If anything, they need to hotfix the zone to buff enemy health in skirmishes because it's a crapshoot on whether you'll have enough time to actually get there, much less get gold. I saw an instance of the chocobo skirmish that died so fast that I arrived at the same time as everyone else but still only got a bronze.

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Originally Posted by Stepjam

If anything, they pre-emptively future proofed Zadnor too soon. Enemies scale horribly with bigger groups and the final dungeon apparently gives a really big buff to smaller parties, so you don't even need anywhere close to 48 to clear. I heard that groups of 4 are already clearing.

If anything, they need to hotfix the zone to buff enemy health in skirmishes because it's a crapshoot on whether you'll have enough time to actually get there, much less get gold. I saw an instance of the chocobo skirmish that died so fast that I arrived at the same time as everyone else but still only got a bronze.

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I just really want to know how they somehow made a worse eureka. Both in gameplay and relic design. It’s like they took the criticisms of it and said hey, all the bad things people disliked? Let’s make them mandatory! IE Castrum, DR, and the Zadnor raid.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

I'll take my subscription money elsewhere and not give it to FF14 then.

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The lead developer literally told you to do this. Its unhealthy to think you need to be perpetually subbed to one game for all time.

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Originally Posted by Raim

The lead developer literally told you to do this. Its unhealthy to think you need to be perpetually subbed to one game for all time.

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except if you have a house, you can’t be away for more than 30 days lmao.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

except if you have a house, you can’t be away for more than 30 days lmao.

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It's 45.

Stop spreading misinformation lol.

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Originally Posted by Raim

The lead developer literally told you to do this. Its unhealthy to think you need to be perpetually subbed to one game for all time.

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He said to take breaks not to unsubscribe. Housing demolish partly exists to discourage that as to their patch releases. The whole cycle releases are specifically setup the way they are to try and keep people subbed longer.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It's 45.

Stop spreading misinformation lol.

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Wow i’m sorry 15 day difference. Doesn’t change the fact it’s a crappy system.

Regarding "burnout," people can try other contents/activities/social interactions they don't normally engage in to see if they can still have fun with the game.

Alternatively, people can play multiple games or add other fun activities to do outside of the game and just play FFXIV less without having to take a break from it.

Alternatively, people can take short breaks while still continuing to subscribe.

Alternatively, people can take a break and unsubscribe.

Those who own a house can determine whether keeping a house is worth the subscription fee if they don't have any other reason to play the game. All of the above choices can still be valid for current house owners depending on the result of their determination. Even the last option can still be done for those who want to keep their houses as there are 15 days free for every 30-day subscription period.

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Originally Posted by Ravor

I am really surprised that most people think there is no content in this game.... my current target is:
1. finishing all bozja content
2. getting all triple triad card to get that card mount (currently 275/310)
3. getting all trust NPC to lvl 80
4. finishing the firmament content
5. get a house
6. buy the 25 million mount (my current gil is 12 million, god help me >_<)
7. learning how to actually play mahjong
8. saving MGP for new mount
9. finishing my fishing class quest
10. getting all other class to lvl 80
11. actually doing and finishing delibrium savage
12. finishing extreme lvl 80 (i am still strugling on diamond extreme)
13. many more

I can list more stuff to do in this game........ this game has more stuff to do than most game out there......... what else does they want? the dev love to make player do more content rather than grinding the same content, the amount of content in this game is so many, that I already know what to do in this 6 months :p

And if you dont like other stuff i mention up there..... play other game :)

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I've got a very similiar list.

1. Bojah, 10 in all three nobilities
2. Triple Triad Completion (I've got 317/326)
(got my trusts)
3. ALL firmament achievements, and relics.
(I aint gonna house, but maybe get the apartment somewhere better)
4. Both 50 and 25 million mounts .... and yes, painful.
5. I'm not entirely sure it's possible to play mahjong, it seems based on what it hands you, but I too want the achivements.
6. I've got the wings, and one other MGP mount left to go
7. Ah, fishing. New bigfish were added to norvanrant, it'll be a while before I get there... (goodluck if your going for feast of famine)
(I am omni 80, so that's something)
8. The EX mech dragon...
9. And many more indeed.

If anyone is interested in more "to-do before 6.0" lists like this, we have a cool thread about them here:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...fore-endwalker

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

except if you have a house, you can’t be away for more than 30 days lmao.

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Yes you can. It's up to you to decide whether or not a stack of pixels called a 'house' is important enough to pay for on it's own.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Yes you can. It's up to you to decide whether or not a stack of pixels called a 'house' is important enough to pay for on it's own.

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Considering how much time it takes to get one because of the system, that certainly weighs into it. It was more of a general thing anyhow.

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Originally Posted by Ravor

I am really surprised that most people think there is no content in this game.... my current target is:
1. finishing all bozja content
2. getting all triple triad card to get that card mount (currently 275/310)
3. getting all trust NPC to lvl 80
4. finishing the firmament content
5. get a house
6. buy the 25 million mount (my current gil is 12 million, god help me >_<)
7. learning how to actually play mahjong
8. saving MGP for new mount
9. finishing my fishing class quest
10. getting all other class to lvl 80
11. actually doing and finishing delibrium savage
12. finishing extreme lvl 80 (i am still strugling on diamond extreme)
13. many more

I can list more stuff to do in this game........ this game has more stuff to do than most game out there......... what else does they want? the dev love to make player do more content rather than grinding the same content, the amount of content in this game is so many, that I already know what to do in this 6 months :p

And if you dont like other stuff i mention up there..... play other game :)

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I mean that's your prerogative but...
1) I hate Eureka 2.0/Bozja/whatever its called
2) I hate Triple triad (I generally dislike any trading card games)
3) I don't see the point of using trusts when it's faster to get a group.
4) I did the reputation if that's what you're asking. IF there's more then I didn't care.
5) I got one, and lost it years ago. Pass
6) What if I don't want it?
7) What if I don't want it?
8) Been there done that
9) Been there done that (on my main)
10) I guess I didn't but I would hardly call it content. Also I prefer using few classes.
11) Look at point 1
12) Don't see a point, it will die in a few months and weapons are useless at this moment. It's only useful for glamour farming, but in a few years you'll be able to craft glowy versions of their weapons. Or farming mounts.
13) No ultimate? Actual Relic farming (it involves bosznja but whatever)? Or mount farming? Glamour farming? Pvp? Battlegrounds? Arena? Barracks? Squadrons? Hunting?

You said there's more stuff to do than most games out there but most of these activities are fluff content, stuff that barely makes a progress on your character. Unless I could fight bosses with the power of triple triads (à la yugioh) I usually don't bother. Plus I don't think it's fun.

Well I guess I'll take your advice and play another game...like monster hunter. Infinitely more content, and no subscription to pay!

If the Zadnor gear npc sold ilvl535 Weapons and armor, I think ppl would play Bozja more as an alternate to Savage content in preparation for the upcoming expansion xD.

People who have nothing to do and are begging for more content, and in the meantime they burn too fast through everything plus don't wanna do half of the content make me laugh.
I've been playing for years nonstop, and not even few hours, and I never find enough time to do everything I wanna do. Things to do in this game are basically endless.

As for Zadnor being completed in a day. Really? Did you already get everything from lockboxes? Did you already max all the honors? All of them? Did you already get the achievement mount by collecting all field notes? Also, if you wanna make it last longer try doing the whole relic pieces in there, but I bet you farmed the raids instead.
It took me a bunch of days to get to 25, and I admit it was waaay faster than getting 15 was before, and I'm so thankful for that, the front at the start was soul-crushing and slow, and I delayed getting to 15 for a long time cause it was long and boring. I'm glad Zandor isn't like that. Anyway, even if max rank now, I can see myself still spending such a long time in there to get all the things I listed. Just the honors probably take forever. And I didn't even mention all the stuff you can get with clusters, farming fragments for actions etc.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

Also, if you wanna make it last longer try doing the whole relic pieces in there, but I bet you farmed the raids instead.

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Why should someone do something at an objectively slower rate just to make content which should last long already...last longer? That’s a pure waste of time lmao. Raids shouldn’t even be the most optimal route for relics it should be, yknow, the actual relic zone they’re themed after. As for them completing Zadnor in a day i believe it. I got to 25, did the raid, got all but one field note in a day. It’s rushed content. This is very obvious after seeing the relic designs and how they resolved 90% of the storyline offscreen.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Why should someone do something at an objectively slower rate just to make content which should last long already...last longer? That’s a pure waste of time lmao. Raids shouldn’t even be the most optimal route for relics it should be, yknow, the actual relic zone they’re themed after. As for them completing Zadnor in a day i believe it. I got to 25, did the raid, got all but one field note in a day. It’s rushed content. This is very obvious after seeing the relic designs and how they resolved 90% of the storyline offscreen.

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I disagree with the rushed assessment since all your basing it off is subjective opinion on the relic design and the fact that they resolved some plot points off screen (hardly a first for this game)

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Yes you can. It's up to you to decide whether or not a stack of pixels called a 'house' is important enough to pay for on it's own.

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Knowing how the housing system in this game function, it does work against their claim of just unsub whenever you like. Yes, the decision is down to the player but it nonetheless does mean something rather fickle and tricky to acquire in this game will go if you don't sub at a sufficient frequency.

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Originally Posted by Kiurai

I disagree with the rushed assessment since all your basing it off is subjective opinion on the relic design and the fact that they resolved some plot points off screen (hardly a first for this game)

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You’re free to believe that. But between the seemingly rushed Zadnor content and then lines missing from msq that were in the trailer, no scion outfit etc, it certainly seems like this entire patch has been rushed af.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Yeah, though to be fair it isn't really a viable option for those of us who own a house and do not wish to lose it - thus we avoid taking a break.

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That's where they got people. Force them to say subbed or lose your house.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Why should someone do something at an objectively slower rate just to make content which should last long already...last longer?

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Because they're the ones complaining it's not taking long enough.
Why should they make the content grindier and longer for everybody just because a bunch of bored people want more grind to fill their time?

So, Spending one session per day in Zadnor (letting the timer count down to below 30 before leaving) I just yesterday got my first 3 hero tokens.

I've not yet pulled the relic out of it either. So I've got more to do.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

Because they're the ones complaining it's not taking long enough.
Why should they make the content grindier and longer for everybody just because a bunch of bored people want more grind to fill their time?

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It doesn’t need to be “grindier”. They can have content be expanded and less monotonous and still enjoyable. All these relic quests this expansion have been specifically to take more time for no reason. Re-running old raids and trials and that being the more optimal route than the actual relic zone. If they instead, would make the relic zone content more elaborate and enjoyable and less of just a grind and more options, then that would help settle to be a healthy medium. Not too long but not too short and wouldn’t consist of just running the same thing over and over for days on end.

At no point have we ever or will we ever have complete transparency on the data the team has used to make these decisions.

Bozja itself is no more or less grindy than any relic that has come before. I've done at least one every expac. If anything, putting a healthy population into older content and maps, stuff that's now likely being experienced more by new players onboarded from the expanded free trial and getting into Stormblood, is a smart choice for a business that benefits from content feeling easily accessible and active. Nad Bozja itself doubles as a pretty effective leveling experience, according to some of my FC.

My DPS queues for alliances have been healer levels of instant. Those old raids and overworld zones are full of chatter and excitement and friendly socializing. It has higher level players whose glamours and gear upon examining might get those new players even more hype about staying subbed.

I think someone previously also made the point that being encouraged to unsub and take breaks kills statics and guilds and ??? no, we have so many ways of communicating and staying in touch out of game, I'm in contact with my static and FC members daily and much more out of game than I ever am while logged in.