Worried for SCH

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

(Unless they delete something first. Again.)

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They'll delete Energy Drain, then add it back.

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Originally Posted by Mesarthim

They'll delete Energy Drain, then add it back.

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Im still angry at how ridiculous it was to remove Energy Drain without altering the way Scholar functioned at it's core. It was literally a key component to how the class worked and they ripped it out on a whim. Then they had the nerve to nerf it's damage after begrudgingly giving it back because clearly they still hate it and anyone who plays Scholar judging by their lack of response to the fairy Ghosting Healing Abilities for this entire expansion.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

Im still angry at how ridiculous it was to remove Energy Drain without altering the way Scholar functioned at it's core. It was literally a key component to how the class worked and they ripped it out on a whim. Then they had the nerve to nerf it's damage after begrudgingly giving it back because clearly they still hate it and anyone who plays Scholar judging by their lack of response to the fairy Ghosting Healing Abilities for this entire expansion.

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they didnt rip it out on a whim--they ripped it out because there were dps players seeing aetherflow stacks not being wasted on them
which should be noted is also one of the main reasons cited for SCH losing all of it's dots in the combat overhaul; since other players felt that the SCH wasn't doing it's job enough, and claimed that other healers were being burdened by them devoting GCDs to dps, despite the fact that 85% of the SCH's healing kit was AND STILL IS both reactionary and instant specifically to allow them to use GCD spells to balance spinning dot plates

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Originally Posted by SpiralMask

they didnt rip it out on a whim--they ripped it out because there were dps players seeing aetherflow stacks not being wasted on them
which should be noted is also one of the main reasons cited for SCH losing all of it's dots in the combat overhaul; since other players felt that the SCH wasn't doing it's job enough, and claimed that other healers were being burdened by them devoting GCDs to dps, despite the fact that 85% of the SCH's healing kit was AND STILL IS both reactionary and instant specifically to allow them to use GCD spells to balance spinning dot plates

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They ripped it out because they genuinely wanted SCHs to be healing with aetherflow only, instead of recognizing why we were using it on Energy Drain in the first place and tuning damage to require the use of Aetherflow consistently. Pre-Stormblood trials actually make decent use of Lustrate if your cohealer isn't dumb and spamming regens constantly. The lesson they should have learned was that Tanks need to be taking more consistent auto damage, period. Alas, nope.

I'd say, Sage is going to get the Aetherflow charge system from SCH with a couple of tweaks while SCH loses it completely. I guess being more reliant on the Fairy gauge wouldn't be that bad.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

I'd say, Sage is going to get the Aetherflow charge system from SCH with a couple of tweaks while SCH loses it completely. I guess being more reliant on the Fairy gauge wouldn't be that bad.

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That would only work if they completely rework the system of what even charges the fairy gauge first, and even then, what would they do to Lustrate since slapping a cooldown on it completely defeats the purpose of it being an emergency single heal in contrast to Indom, Sacred, and Excog already having inlaid cooldowns that can be worked around? And leaving it as a 1s cd makes Physick even more obsolete than it is currently unless the heal isn't imperative to that degree, which I would end up seeing a potency nerf on it in this situation.

Going further would be that they either remove and replace Fey Union if they begin costing fairy gauge or repurpose it entirely to not drain from it at all. The latter matter is they either leave it as is as a continuous regen that locks off 4 other abilities in the process plus placement options or they try something else with it if it's meant to be "Lily's Special Care" as a "target and forget" 18-30s regen on the tank that the fairy casts instead of you that doesn't give up WD, Seraph, FB, or Illum. But in doing so we just get DAB or Regen again, just at a way later level than WHM and AST which means more homogenization between the existing 3 and the coming 4th, if that.

i love sch, its my main. i think a change on some of its skills should be done. i mean, i don't even use this aetherpact skill. maybe change it into a buff or a dmg mitigation but also increase its fairy gauge cost.. fairy blessing too, increase its cost and make the potency a little bit higher and decrease its cooldown or maybe no cooldown at all because it is already locked behind the fairy gauge.. i dont know, maybe its just me.. :( cuz usually, 1min on the fight and i have like 40 or 50 fairy gauge already and nothing to use it on. :(

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Originally Posted by Foxkid

and even then, what would they do to Lustrate since slapping a cooldown on it completely defeats the purpose of it being an emergency single heal in contrast to Indom, Sacred, and Excog already having inlaid cooldowns that can be worked around?

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They can add 3 charges to it. The only difference is that with charges that replenish one at a time, the chances of having wasteful Lustrates is smaller.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

They can add 3 charges to it. The only difference is that with charges that replenish one at a time, the chances of having wasteful Lustrates is smaller.

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Please dont let Lustrate have charges and who is having a problem with wasteful lustrates? We got Energy Drain for that. I imagined it being a 20 second charge time and I just couldnt function with that in dungeons. If I have a tank doing big pulls I will purposely hold off on using aetherflow charges toward the end of boss fights so that I can rapid fire 3 lustrates, use aetherflow, and then fire off another 3 lustrates. That's six lustrates back to back and you can't do that with a charge system. It's literally the only time Scholar feels tactical and that's a huge part of it's identity; saving, spending, manipulating resources to heal well. Charges are great for some things but lustrate in it's current form is better.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

Please dont let Lustrate have charges and who is having a problem with wasteful lustrates? We got Energy Drain for that. I imagined it being a 20 second charge time and I just couldnt function with that in dungeons. If I have a tank doing big pulls I will purposely hold off on using aetherflow charges toward the end of boss fights so that I can rapid fire 3 lustrates, use aetherflow, and then fire off another 3 lustrates. That's six lustrates back to back and you can't do that with a charge system. It's literally the only time Scholar feels tactical and that's a huge part of it's identity; saving, spending, manipulating resources to heal well. Charges are great for some things but lustrate in it's current form is better.

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Hm... Look behind the post, it's a response to someone responding another person about Aetherflow rework. If Aetherflow gets removed.

Of course, as it is right now (with aetherflow and energy drain), yes, you're right, but otherwise, though...

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

Im still angry at how ridiculous it was to remove Energy Drain without altering the way Scholar functioned at it's core. It was literally a key component to how the class worked and they ripped it out on a whim. Then they had the nerve to nerf it's damage after begrudgingly giving it back because clearly they still hate it and anyone who plays Scholar judging by their lack of response to the fairy Ghosting Healing Abilities for this entire expansion.

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Honestly all they had to do was add the MP gain to all the Aetherflow abilities and Energy drain becomes pretty pointless. As it stands now it's a sh!t spell at 100 potency.

Ruin 2 could easily be our weave spell at double the potency of Energy Drain.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Honestly all they had to do was add the MP gain to all the Aetherflow abilities and Energy drain becomes pretty pointless. As it stands now it's a sh!t spell at 100 potency.

Ruin 2 could easily be our weave spell at double the potency of Energy Drain.

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Ruin II is our weave spell and the fact it is double the potency of current Energy Drain is why it rarely sees use outside of movement. It needs to be at least 5/6ths of our current and future filler spells to be worth using as such irrespective of ping. Personally I would like to see Energy Drain’s potency rebuffed then indirectly nerfed by the tax of using Ruin II (and maybe by having Aetherflow healing actions contribute to another damage oGCD to weave in the future) as its far more fluid and efficient given how much SCH relies on weaving windows to function properly now.

I honestly don’t like dissipation because you only use it with gcd. Sch is very ogcd dependent. I also don’t think aetherpact should be tied to the the fey gauge. All I ever wanted was for the faerie to heal whomever I wanted and not embrace all over the place. Aetherpact is perfect for just healing that one person and it has to be tied the fey gauge… just lower the potency a little then let it become a regular gcd continuous regen/barrier every few seconds on anyone we choose. Also I hope we get to summon both feo and Titania. Would be so neat.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

I honestly don’t like dissipation because you only use it with gcd. Sch is very ogcd dependent. I also don’t think aetherpact should be tied to the the fey gauge. All I ever wanted was for the faerie to heal whomever I wanted and not embrace all over the place. Aetherpact is perfect for just healing that one person and it has to be tied the fey gauge… just lower the potency a little then let it become a regular gcd continuous regen/barrier every few seconds on anyone we choose. Also I hope we get to summon both feo and Titania. Would be so neat.

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That's why Dissipation is strictly for emergencies with a magic potency boost for stronger shields (and physick) until Lily comes back to give out filler recovery again. Indom and Lustrate specifically have quite a high potency to them already so the extra 20% isn't necessary for them in that time since under all situations except an ill-timed Superbolide or heal check (like say Shinryu's "allied adds") they serve their purpose for a strong physical heal.

But Adlo and Succor especially are the buffer for her being gone once your stacks are gone, much like using Fey Illumination for the same benefit.

I honestly don't know if they could ruin it anymore than they already have. It was my absolute favorite job from ARR all the way through Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Foxkid

That's why Dissipation is strictly for emergencies with a magic potency boost for stronger shields (and physick) until Lily comes back to give out filler recovery again. Indom and Lustrate specifically have quite a high potency to them already so the extra 20% isn't necessary for them in that time since under all situations except an ill-timed Superbolide or heal check (like say Shinryu's "allied adds") they serve their purpose for a strong physical heal.

But Adlo and Succor especially are the buffer for her being gone once your stacks are gone, much like using Fey Illumination for the same benefit.

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Once the SCH is comfortable enough, they can utilize Dissipation for more Energy Drains (half joke here) & the need for mobility in movement-heavy phases. But I understand why some would keep it as an emergency button. Losing the fairy for full 30s (something that I also don't like) while also being locked out from using any of fae-related skills requires some planning ahead of time.

Something that got me thinking about Dissipation recently is how I only joined Frontline for the first time few weeks ago as a SCH. Their PvP version of Dissipation actually expends SCH's Fae gauge for a self buff to their healing actions and giving them 1 extra charge of either Indom or Lustrate to throw. Sure, PvP SCHs do not summon their fae, but I wish PvE version of Dissipation actually interacts with our fae gauge; preferably spending them because as it stands now we tend forget about fae gauge completely so that they either: (1)Let them run out cause we forgot to untether our fae, or (2)Overcap them for considerable amount of time due to lack of usage.

That being said, if they actually do that, the lv60 Dissipation will need some rehaul or possibly swapped with Fey Union so that SCH gets their Fey Union much earlier. This would also mean SCH accessing their fae gauge system far earlier in their progression.

Juggling Aetherflow between healing and dps is what Square Enix finds problematic and the veteran Scholar players find fun. I would like to see Aetherflow get pruned from the host of abilties tied to it personally. Idealy I think Aetherflow should only interact with Lustrate, Energy Drain, and Bane (even if we only have the one sad DoT but hopefully we get all of them back). Excog, Indom, and Sacred Soil already have cooldowns and they could function even better without spending Aetherflow to trigger them. This means if someone wants to be a pure dps and use every charge of Aetherflow on Energy Drain they still have their important abilites in Excog, Indom, and Soil. This would mean both more healing potential and dps potential as Aetherflow wouldnt be split across so many actions and mistakes with spending too much Aetherflow wouldnt be as costly. The only thing I would change is Recitation since it wouldnt be replacing the aetherflow cost of abilties that no longer need it. I would make it lower the cooldown Soil, Indom, and Excog by maybe 5 seconds when activated.

I'm not sure if that would make SCH any more interesting for me. What appealed to me was the tactician part of it, looking at your available tools and deciding the next several courses of action.

"Do I need to spend a GCD to shield this or can we survive it regardless? Should I use my party mitigation here or on the next mechanic, which of these deals more damage? How much time do we have left until the next aoe and can I safely use my aetherflow for dps here or do I definitely need to keep a stack?"
There was a risk and reward to weighting your options, deciding on an action and seeing it play out. Did you plan correctly or did you screw up? Aetherflow usage was part of this when SCH's options were more limited, if you used it up too early then tough luck, the dps you may have gained earlier is now gone because you need to resort to GCD healing, if that can even save you. (And since I was never a healer main I made the wrong decisions regularly)


Part of this has already been removed by the current healer design but removing most abilities from the Aetherflow pool takes even more of that aspect away, because you know you can just blow them all on dps and still have enough tools available for whatever may come.
It feels good when your plan works perfectly and you are rewarded for it, if there is no chance of failure then it quickly becomes stale because you're just going through the motions...this can be said about a lot of jobs and a lot of content though.

Looking like there could be a possible Smn overhaul in works, something about lack of egi glams haulted for some major Smn changes. That being said, its possible Sch could follow suit, maybe an improved pet system or doing away with pets altogether? Either way it at least seems like something is being done.

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Looking like there could be a possible Smn overhaul in works, something about lack of egi glams haulted for some major Smn changes. That being said, its possible Sch could follow suit, maybe an improved pet system or doing away with pets altogether? Either way it at least seems like something is being done.

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I assume this will be the famed split between ACN/SMN and SCH YoshiP wanted to implement.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

I assume this will be the famed split between ACN/SMN and SCH YoshiP wanted to implement.

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Seeing where the lion's share of the Frankenstein's monster stitches from THAT breakup go should be interesting to see.

Oh who am I kidding. One of those jobs is red, the other is green. That's not even a question. Next!

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Seeing where the lion's share of the Frankenstein's monster stitches from THAT breakup go should be interesting to see.

Oh who am I kidding. One of those jobs is red, the other is green. That's not even a question. Next!

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I'm sure we'll get to keep Physick. Isn't that great? Physick!

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

I assume this will be the famed split between ACN/SMN and SCH YoshiP wanted to implement.

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honestly long overdue. I know it's nice to level a 2 in 1 job, but if somehow behind the scenes one holds back the other...

I wonder how they would do in practice, though... ACN will become SCH and they'll have the SMN as an independent entry at lv30 (like MCH, DRK and AST)?

Or they'll create a brand new Class for one or the other? Honestly, I feel that they would have to retcon some stuff in the job questlines as well... But then, given the current state of the actions across different jobs, a lot of them really need some retcons at this point.

Half of the AST abilities nowadays make no sense from what lore you learn with AST's job quests... and probably will do even less sense with EW's changes. I kinda wonder if that's the reason why the most recent jobs' quests mention nothing about skills themselves, so they would avoid their lore to clash with future redesigns.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

honestly long overdue. I know it's nice to level a 2 in 1 job, but if somehow behind the scenes one holds back the other...

I wonder how they would do in practice, though... ACN will become SCH and they'll have the SMN as an independent entry at lv30 (like MCH, DRK and AST)?

Or they'll create a brand new Class for one or the other? Honestly, I feel that they would have to retcon some stuff in the job questlines as well... But then, given the current state of the actions across different jobs, a lot of them really need some retcons at this point.

Half of the AST abilities nowadays make no sense from what lore you learn with AST's job quests... and probably will do even less sense with EW's changes. I kinda wonder if that's the reason why the most recent jobs' quests mention nothing about skills themselves, so they would avoid their lore to clash with future redesigns.

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ACN/SMN have tied weapons while SCH have their own books. Arcanist shows Summoner gear when picking it for your starter class. I guess the most natural outcome would be to keep Arcanist tied to Summoner and have Scholar as an unlockable at level 30.

As for future Job quests, it seems they have abandoned them altogether. I wonder what will hapen with the new jobs? If they start at level 70, they would have no job quests in the current system. (Crystarium role story lines)

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

ACN/SMN have tied weapons while SCH have their own books. Arcanist shows Summoner gear when picking it for your starter class. I guess the most natural outcome would be to keep Arcanist tied to Summoner and have Scholar as an unlockable at level 30.

As for future Job quests, it seems they have abandoned them altogether. I wonder what will hapen with the new jobs? If they start at level 70, they would have no job quests in the current system. (Crystarium role story lines)

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Oh my b, you're right about the SCH>SMN thing, I completely forgot as I went through that in the paleolithic.

The quests, I actually meant past ones, but for the new jobs, like you mention... Yeah, what I can see see is probably an introductory quest chain, but I wonder how they'll insert job lore for them.

ACN being tied to SMN and SCH splitting off on its own would make the most sense simply because SMN and ACN are both dps. It'd be weird if you started the game as a dps and then your continuation was into a healing job.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

ACN/SMN have tied weapons while SCH have their own books. Arcanist shows Summoner gear when picking it for your starter class. I guess the most natural outcome would be to keep Arcanist tied to Summoner and have Scholar as an unlockable at level 30.

As for future Job quests, it seems they have abandoned them altogether. I wonder what will hapen with the new jobs? If they start at level 70, they would have no job quests in the current system. (Crystarium role story lines)

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I thought the reason no one had job quests anymore was due to creative burnout on furthering everyone's reasons for learning their new skills from 72-80 and just had the role quests as a "New World" replacement so everyone had something at minimum of a lore case that also served a point to push a side narrative as well?

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Originally Posted by Foxkid

I thought the reason no one had job quests anymore was due to creative burnout on furthering everyone's reasons for learning their new skills from 72-80 and just had the role quests as a "New World" replacement so everyone had something at minimum of a lore case that also served a point to push a side narrative as well?

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Not saying that isn't the reason for that quest system. But with the new jobs, those crystarium quests no longer serve as job lore quests. So I guess they would get either level 70+ quests parallel to the crystarium ones or simply get them at level 80-90.

I suspect it's a combination of not being sure what to do with some job stories anymore for long running ARR/HW jobs, as well as just the additional jobs being added, meaning more storylines every expansion. So they condensed into role quests.

I really hope the new jobs still get their own quest chain. I don't mind older jobs not getting new ones every expansion but new jobs really should still get a quest line to flesh out their lore, even if they're running parallel level wise to role quests.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I don't know how many times this has to be explained:

DISSIPATION DOES NOT AFFECT ABILITIES.

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I personally interpreted the "Power Boost" as meaning "I have the three extra stacks". Yes I agree that Dissipation should've effected actions as well. but at the same time you're still trading your faerie for extra healing or damage in a moment where the faerie is likely spent and not contributing much. Dissipation was fine as soon as they added the fact the faerie automatically return. Personally? I'd rather have the PVP version of the skill that but would require completely reworking the current system of how our OGCDs work to make sense.

I'm worried for the SCH as well. I've come to realize I hate Yoshi's vision on what a healer should look like. I really miss the way the job used to be designed...I'm so damn sick of mashing Broil all the time.

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Originally Posted by Truen

I'm worried for the SCH as well. I've come to realize I hate Yoshi's vision on what a healer should look like. I really miss the way the job used to be designed...I'm so damn sick of mashing Broil all the time.

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If content actually did more randomly timed damage instead of predictable bursts (not counting mistakes), then his view of a healer would be fine. But what he wants and how fights are designed are clashing the hardest to make it an undesirable slough.

What's the point in saying "healers should heal more", but then incoming damage is easy to work around unless its a blind run or brand new and gear isn't matched to it equally yet? You end up having a ton of overheal, downtime, and not enjoying anything anymore.

Not to mention solo duties require you know, damage, unless they try to push that "healers can no longer queue for solo duties" (which would be utter nonsense and one of the worst moves to make), it makes me wonder if 80-90 should just be a string of new damage options or if we'll end up seeing 2 traits for damage upgrades (like Broil and Biolysis) and then the learned spells just end up being more healing and mitigation that looks flashy but offers nothing for learned fights.

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Originally Posted by Foxkid

If content actually did more randomly timed damage instead of predictable bursts (not counting mistakes), then his view of a healer would be fine.

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Sounds like healing in PvP. And speaking of PvP, the PvP version of Scholar is immensely more fun to play than it's PvE counterpart. In PvP you use the Faerie Gauge to refresh the cooldown of Lustrate and Indomitability. Even with only having Broil 3 and Biolysis as dps spells you are actively engaged with Faerie Gauge generation, you generate Faerie Gauge by using gcd spells, and using Dissipation to refresh Lustrate and Indomitability's cooldowns. Makes Scholar as busy to play as PvE Astro with its cards.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

Sounds like healing in PvP. And speaking of PvP, the PvP version of Scholar is immensely more fun to play than it's PvE counterpart. In PvP you use the Faerie Gauge to refresh the cooldown of Lustrate and Indomitability. Even with only having Broil 3 and Biolysis as dps spells you are actively engaged with Faerie Gauge generation, you generate Faerie Gauge by using gcd spells, and using Dissipation to refresh Lustrate and Indomitability's cooldowns. Makes Scholar as busy to play as PvE Astro with its cards.

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This is honestly the design concept I'm hoping they go for if they do revamp SCH, Increase the ways SCH generates Fae Gauge but give them more ways to spend it. It can even incentivize a minor dps rotation that isn't needlessly complicated. That is typically the design goal when I fantasize about how i would design sch if given the power here.