!! Fix Healer Rescue

Adding a toggle to prevent rescue troll will just make me delete that utility entirely from my hotbar. Why would I weave an ability that I wouldn’t even know if it’ll work reliably? At that point they might as well delete the utility entirely.

The long CD combined with the shortness of actually being rescued means you aren’t losing control of your character but for an instant, seems there are bigger fish to fry, rescue is working as intended.

I'm a bit torn. I've certainly used Rescue plenty of times to save someone, Alliance Raids especially. There have been a lot of folks who didn't take an Engels gear to the face because i was quick on the trigger. I like it for that aspect of being able to truly help.

On the other hand, there are instances like my co-healer pulling me from my safe spot on the third PB boss because...they were offended I didn't choose the same one? So instead of not dying in my nice also-safe spot, I get pulled right into the bad and die. I don't like that aspect of it.

I do kind of like Packet's suggestion of it being something where we can move ourselves. I would definitely get a lot more play out of that than I do now with Rescue. A lot of the time I assume folks know what they're doing, so I only end up using it on those obvious "That's an instant kill they're going to take to the face" situations, or when people can't get on the damned pads in LotA.

Aye, we should fix it by making it a 30 second cooldown. +1 I support.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Rescue doesn't cause you to lose control of your character. That is what the status effect "Confusion" does. Stop exaggerating. What it does is forces you into the same position as the healer who rescues you. If you don't want to be rescued, the first thing you should do is learn, know, and obey mechanics. If you are the confident type who stays in a bad position for DPS upkeep until it is truly time to move, then use Arms Length/Surecast to prevent a rescue from the healer who is thinking you are not aware of the incoming mechanic. OR, you can even ask to be rescued during certain mechanics in order to sustain your DPS. IOW, do what IS in your control to do.

There will never be a toggle for Rescue. The skill would sooner get deleted, and that's not happening either.

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What if I know my mechanics and know how to squeeze uptime in seemingly dangerous scenarios but the healer misreads, happens to be in narnia, and now I as a melee class either have suffered multiple GCD loss(probably during a critical point in my rotation) or having to burn a gap closer where there shouldn't have a need to be in the first place.

And really? It's on the DPS player to predict every time they want to greed to press their only knockback prevention tool that might kill them later down the line in a knockback specific mechanic because the healer might randomly misuse a repositioning tool that forces me in a place I probably don't wanna be? That is the definition of taking away control from a player.

This forum seems to only deal in absolutes. Yes because the possibility of someone not rescue toggled on means I should never attempt to touch an action that has very rare niche uses that can either be good or bad thanks to whatever confirmation bias I previously have.

I'm sure pure healer only healers probably have good intentions. Doesn't mean we should encourage that play style since it *gasps* affects everyone elses gameplay in high content right?

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

What if I know my mechanics and know how to squeeze uptime in seemingly dangerous scenarios but the healer misreads, happens to be in narnia

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Then you fight for Narnia instead. It needs you!

I’m calling it now, Rescue will be removed in 6.0. I love the ability but due to how the game works with the server back end, all it ever does for me is make it easier to find the body to Rez the player.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Then you fight for Narnia instead. It needs you!

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You right! ASLAN NEEDS ME!

What if:

What if rescue gave you the same invulnerability frames as being revived?


That way you can't be pulled into danger. There might even come some new strategies where a well timed rescue becomes how some tankbusters get survived.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

What if I know my mechanics and know how to squeeze uptime in seemingly dangerous scenarios but the healer misreads, happens to be in narnia, and now I as a melee class either have suffered multiple GCD loss(probably during a critical point in my rotation) or having to burn a gap closer where there shouldn't have a need to be in the first place.

And really? It's on the DPS player to predict every time they want to greed to press their only knockback prevention tool that might kill them later down the line in a knockback specific mechanic because the healer might randomly misuse a repositioning tool that forces me in a place I probably don't wanna be? That is the definition of taking away control from a player.

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I'm pretty sure I explained what to do if you want to greed. Uptime is basically what Arm's Length/Surecast is used for. It's on the DPS to use their kits to the best of their ability to maximize their DPS, and maintain their uptime. The healer rescuing you is also likely aware of this, and understands that you do 0 DPS if you're on the floor. Using Arm's Length/Surecast for the sole purpose of cheesing a mechanic is not very good use of the skill. I don't do current Savage or Ultimate, but I am not aware of any mechanic where KB prevention is actually needed to survive it. However, some PF and prog strats will employ it to maintain uptime, which can make the difference between a clear and an enrage.

I can understand an argument that having to use Arm's Length prematurely to avoid being rescued is also a poor use of the skill, but understand that greeding puts a healer in a very awkward situation if they don't know what you're up to. As a healer main, I can tell you I have allowed more players to die by hesitating to use rescue than I have killed by actually using the skill. On the receiving end, I have never been killed by Rescue. I also can't count how many times I wish I would have been rescued because I screwed myself somehow during a barrage of mechs, and couldn't be any further away from the safe zone.

Again, you don't lose control of your character. You lose the position your character is currently in. It's not a playstyle, nor does it have the impact during encounters that people make it out to be. The only valid argument most players have is it causes their GCD to drift, and there is no disputing that. However, I can throw out an extended list of how Rescue is beneficial. Trust me, if healers lost Rescue, it would impact them, and take away one of very few engaging aspects to the role that take us away from spamming Glare/Broil/Malefic. You have to keep in mind that I only needed three words to describe the DPS rotation for all three healers.

PvE is a team effort, and it is not in the best interest of the healer to use Rescue maliciously if they want to clear content.

What the hell?

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Originally Posted by ClickClick

i think a good player will always be able to anticipate when rescue is about to be cast on them

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Is this a troll post?

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

What if:

What if rescue gave you the same invulnerability frames as being revived?


That way you can't be pulled into danger. There might even come some new strategies where a well timed rescue becomes how some tankbusters get survived

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Obviously overpowered. Party about to wipe? One healer rescues the other healer and the other healer rescues a tank. Six people die but tank lives to keep boss occupied long enough for healer to LB.

Dunno, rescue seems pretty great.

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Originally Posted by ClickClick

if you don't want to be rescued just use arms length, otherwise get over it..

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Had my cohealer rescue me in Rab 3rd boss. I didn't need recuing... I went ahead and told her/him to not do that and then went ahead and pulled her across the room. Seriously...

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Adding a toggle to prevent rescue troll will just make me delete that utility entirely from my hotbar. Why would I weave an ability that I wouldn’t even know if it’ll work reliably? At that point they might as well delete the utility entirely.

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They can just add a debuff icon in the party window for players who have it turned off.

Regardless, the ability probably should be deleted in DF content. The way we're all overscaled maintaining uptime is more efficient than avoiding AoE in many cases anyways. Healers aren't helping the run by dragging people around, they're just being annoying.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Rescue doesn't cause you to lose control of your character. That is what the status effect "Confusion" does. Stop exaggerating. What it does is forces you into the same position as the healer who rescues you. If you don't want to be rescued, the first thing you should do is learn, know, and obey mechanics. If you are the confident type who stays in a bad position for DPS upkeep until it is truly time to move, then use Arms Length/Surecast to prevent a rescue from the healer who is thinking you are not aware of the incoming mechanic. OR, you can even ask to be rescued during certain mechanics in order to sustain your DPS. IOW, do what IS in your control to do.

There will never be a toggle for Rescue. The skill would sooner get deleted, and that's not happening either.

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Arms length is intended to allow you to maintain uptime through ENEMY knockbacks. Having to waste it on standard AoEs because your dippy healer might decide to yank you is impeding the DPS. If everyone in the group is wasting their KB immunity for fear of healer incompetence, it's hurting the entire run.

In statics where everyone is on the same page I can understand the value of Rescue. In DF however, it should be a toggle.

If anything it should also work out of combat :3

Rescue needs to work outside of combat.

Yoink button go brrrrr

In the relic farm in Rabanastre I don't know how many people I've saved with Rescue. They become chickens and I rescue them back to the middle of the arena and they survive instead of dieing when they run to the edge of the arena. Rescue seems to working as intended in that case and I wish when I became a chicken people had done that to me.

I use rescue to save people and it feels great. And the few times it has resulted in a hilarious death well... *wipes tear from eye*

Five star ability.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Arms length is intended to allow you to maintain uptime through ENEMY knockbacks. Having to waste it on standard AoEs because your dippy healer might decide to yank you is impeding the DPS. If everyone in the group is wasting their KB immunity for fear of healer incompetence, it's hurting the entire run.

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I absolutely want Rescue to stay and think unique abilities should be encouraged, but I agree with this. "Use arms length" is the worst argument I've ever seen to justify Rescue remaining in the game. Even more hilarious are the arguments that you can just split second predict a Rescue and kb immune it. I don't think people realize nonsense like that would encourage any Dev reading this to simply laugh and remove Rescue immediately.

Rescue should stay because it's a unique ability that encourages raid awareness and thinking outside the box for creative uses. It can legitimately save a player used well. The situations where it has been used maliciously (outside of statics for fun) are so rare many players never even encounter it and mistaken uses are hardly a big deal, mistakes happen that kill people all the time regardless of Rescue. The only thing I'd change is making it more instant when used, the animation delay makes it hard to use it as a quick reaction save.

Its useful. The most annoying this is the accidental misclick of rescue. I have had that happen to me more times than actually being properly rescued.

Rescue can also be used to troll people as well. However I dont think dev time should be used to adjust it.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

As a healer main, I can tell you I have allowed more players to die by hesitating to use rescue than I have killed by actually using the skill. On the receiving end, I have never been killed by Rescue. I also can't count how many times I wish I would have been rescued because I screwed myself somehow during a barrage of mechs, and couldn't be any further away from the safe zone.

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This. I use Rescue rarely. In the aftermath of Stuff Happening, I have often wished I used it less rarely. (Particularly when the end result is someone on the floor and whining that the healers aren't getting them up immediately so they can keep DPS'ing, when the healers in question don't presently have Swift up and mechanics may be incoming.)

And when playing DPS and going blind to a mechanic long enough that I realize "Crap, sprint won't get me to safety in time", there have certainly been times I wished I'd been Rescued out of my own DPS-focused haze into safety, rather than pelting like a maniac towards the safe spot only to die three steps away.

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Originally Posted by Provoke

Is this a troll post?

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umm??? no??? quite frankly i am offended that you think so

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Obviously overpowered. Party about to wipe? One healer rescues the other healer and the other healer rescues a tank. Six people die but tank lives to keep boss occupied long enough for healer to LB.

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Depends on how long the invunrability is.
Honestly though, it still looks like this might be the best solution, and the only third option. Given "disable it" or "don't disable it", nobody else has mentioned another third option....

The only person throwing a tantrum here is you it would seem. Or do you think being a douchebag on an internet forum actually makes you a tough guy?

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Arms length is intended to allow you to maintain uptime through ENEMY knockbacks. Having to waste it on standard AoEs because your dippy healer might decide to yank you is impeding the DPS. If everyone in the group is wasting their KB immunity for fear of healer incompetence, it's hurting the entire run.

In statics where everyone is on the same page I can understand the value of Rescue. In DF however, it should be a toggle.

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Read the tooltip bud. Arm's length/Surecast grants immunity to knockbacks AND draw in effects. Thinking this applies to just enemies is some kind of arbitrary rule that makes little sense.

Your post is also a perfect example of the overexaggerated impact of healers using Rescue. "Hurting the entire run"? What a load of bullocks. I would even wager some players reading this thread didn't even know they could prevent Rescue with their immunity skill.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

"Use arms length" is the worst argument I've ever seen to justify Rescue remaining in the game. Even more hilarious are the arguments that you can just split second predict a Rescue and kb immune it. I don't think people realize nonsense like that would encourage any Dev reading this to simply laugh and remove Rescue immediately.

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Or you can realize that no one expects you to predict a healer using Rescue on you. All I implied was that if your DPS uptime is so important to you that you will greed, then either use your immunity during this time, or don't cry if the healer rescues you. It is absolutely ridiculous to think a healer is doing this to spite the player being rescued. And who is saying that use if your immunity skill is reason enough to keep Rescue in the game? Strawman? It sure wasn't me. Of course it is not the ideal use of it, but there is no prediction required. It's called being proactive.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Read the tooltip bud. Arm's length/Surecast grants immunity to knockbacks AND draw in effects. Thinking this applies to just enemies is some kind of arbitrary rule that makes little sense.

Your post is also a perfect example of the overexaggerated impact of healers using Rescue. "Hurting the entire run"? What a load of bullocks. I would even wager some players reading this thread didn't even know they could prevent Rescue with their immunity skill..

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Enemies have pull in effects to; using it in AV during the first pull is a good way to keep the frogs from yanking you and aggroing the entire room.

The point is that it OBVIOUSLY was intended for use against enemies, not to stop derpy healers from screwing up your rotation or getting you killed. To use it proactively to protect myself from every situation where a healer could potentially screw me I'd need it on a 15 second CD. I can't predict when the healer is going to pull some low IQ nonsense, so I'll need to be popping it for every AoE I can dps through, every time my burst is off CD and when the enemies that AREN'T in my party are threatening to reposition me.

Forcing everyone to use their KB immunity to keep dopey healers in check definitely hurts the party. Not saying it's crippling, but it's not exactly a net gain for anyone.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Enemies have pull in effects to; using it in AV during the first pull is a good way to keep the frogs from yanking you and aggroing the entire room.

The point is that it OBVIOUSLY was intended for use against enemies, not to stop derpy healers from screwing up your rotation or getting you killed. To use it proactively to protect myself from every situation where a healer could potentially screw me I'd need it on a 15 second CD. I can't predict when the healer is going to pull some low IQ nonsense, so I'll need to be popping it for every AoE I can dps through, every time my burst is off CD and when the enemies that AREN'T in my party are threatening to reposition me.


Forcing everyone to use their KB immunity to keep dopey healers in check definitely hurts the party. Not saying it's crippling, but it's not exactly a net gain for anyone.

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My statement acknowledges that enemies have draw in effects as well. I never said they don't have them.

I understand what you're saying, and I get why it is frustrating. My point is that this does not warrant deleting the skill, or placing a toggle on it. The only thing obvious about your immunity is that it prevents exactly what it says it does. What is obvious to me is that you're making a bigger deal out of this than needs to be, and I provided an option that would assist you. Instead of seeing it as a viable option, you dismiss it and proceed to chastise the game's healers and saying they are of low IQ when all they are doing is trying to keep you from dying. At the bare minimum it shows they are paying attention to not only the mechanics, but also their party member's positions. This is not easy to do, and all you can exhibit is a massive amount of unappreciation because your uptime is clearly more important than anything else.

No one is forcing you to do anything. If you want to be dismissive, then I will return in kind and say if you don't want to be rescued, then don't give the healers a reason to rescue you.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I absolutely want Rescue to stay and think unique abilities should be encouraged, but I agree with this. "Use arms length" is the worst argument I've ever seen to justify Rescue remaining in the game. Even more hilarious are the arguments that you can just split second predict a Rescue and kb immune it. I don't think people realize nonsense like that would encourage any Dev reading this to simply laugh and remove Rescue immediately.

Rescue should stay because it's a unique ability that encourages raid awareness and thinking outside the box for creative uses. It can legitimately save a player used well. The situations where it has been used maliciously (outside of statics for fun) are so rare many players never even encounter it and mistaken uses are hardly a big deal, mistakes happen that kill people all the time regardless of Rescue. The only thing I'd change is making it more instant when used, the animation delay makes it hard to use it as a quick reaction save.

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I do agree that healers should have something like rescue since it's a unique skill that healers with good awareness can make use of, but I also think that they should change how rescue works considering its trolling potential and general disruptiveness. The worst part about rescue in its current state is that it basically denies the target any control over their character's positioning, and makes them go where the healer wants them to go, and sometimes that's into a deadly aoe that they wouldn't be in if the healer just didn't use the skill

I would rather they changed rescue to a short buff, say 6 seconds, where if the targeted character takes fatal damage with the buff up, it automatically "rescues" them by resurrecting them on the spot with no weakness but they lose all their gauge.

At least, I prefer that over being passive aggressively rescued because the healer doesn't like my pull speed, or that they don't understand melee uptime, or the fact that I use proximity markers to pop TBN.

The chance of me making a butter finger mistake and pulling the tank towards me by mistake is just to damn high.
So, I do not even have it out on my hot-bar .
The tank should know where to be and the DD ... *shrug* .

Speaking of movement abilities hampering other people's DPS, they should remove RDM and DRG jumpbacks because the people who fall off the edge cut into my broil casts.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

My statement acknowledges that enemies have draw in effects as well. I never said they don't have them.

I understand what you're saying, and I get why it is frustrating. My point is that this does not warrant deleting the skill, or placing a toggle on it. The only thing obvious about your immunity is that it prevents exactly what it says it does. What is obvious to me is that you're making a bigger deal out of this than needs to be, and I provided an option that would assist you. Instead of seeing it as a viable option, you dismiss it and proceed to chastise the game's healers and saying they are of low IQ when all they are doing is trying to keep you from dying. At the bare minimum it shows they are paying attention to not only the mechanics, but also their party member's positions. This is not easy to do, and all you can exhibit is a massive amount of unappreciation because your uptime is clearly more important than anything else.

No one is forcing you to do anything. If you want to be dismissive, then I will return in kind and say if you don't want to be rescued, then don't give the healers a reason to rescue you.

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All I'm really saying in response to you is that Arm's Length isn't a good solution to this. I've always been in favor of making Rescue into a toggle; that way everyone gets what they want out of the situation. Too many Healers seem to dismiss this option, though, because apparently yanking people around is their birthright and no one should be allowed to say no. So, fine, if you know where I should be standing so much better than I do then you'd better not screw up.

An ability that's as absurdly intrusive as Rescue should only be used on people who want it. There's a reason this topic keeps coming up; people DON'T LIKE being forcibly repositioned by other players.

Please no, I've been saved many times when I didn't position properly while doing a new normal raid or an alliance roulette I'm unfamiliar with, I use it when I heal with varying degrees of success, sometimes I save people from the last CT boss, sometimes I'm too late, sometimes I misclick and immediately aplogize, the responses are always positive, I don't remember many times where it became game-hindering if any at all.

In frontlines, it is too valuable to be deleted, overall I think the benefits vastly outweight the misuses, if someone is clearly abusing it they can be reported, if it's a minor misuse with good intentions then that's just one of many ways players make minor mistakes in the game

If I may, "But what about Statics who use it properly!" Statics have communication. Random PUGs don't.

TL : DR As someone who's been on all aspects of the Rescue fight, I don't think we need a toggle or to get rid of the skill, but the skill does need some workarounds. Some ideas for this: Adding a small minimal cast time - something as fast as Esuna (0.94 seconds) or faster. Just SOMETHING to make it more valuable to healers and less valuable and fun for trolls who like to use their instant casts to be well...trolls.

I've been with healers that make this an AMAZINGLY wonderful skill to have used on you when you are legit being dumb or lagging or need it to be used on you because you won't make it out of a massive mechanic and you're just 2 seconds from death... Healers that used it to drag me forward into the Boss area because someone pulled early and I was about to get warped to A in the Crystal Tower Atmos fights or the others where we're broken up and someone's Impatient so that way I stay with my Alliance Group. I've also had it drag me off nearly falling off the edge countless times in Bismark because I lagged just a little too much and almost walked off the edge. <--- All of these... were about 95% static groups.

I have also been on the 'hurry and pull more' spectrum on a low level tank that wasn't geared to do a double pull or purposely targeted and pulled into the lava by a trolly Healer, or dragged off the edge in titan for S&G because "it's just old content no need to take it so seriously." OR MY FAVORITE, Being dragged along after you were left behind to clean up because the healer was in such a rush, during a metered pull by the game, because you literally just finished the animation of being bounced to the next platform in the Twinning, but you're still actually moving and getting ready to pull. OR HAVING MORE than enough time to run myself with sprint to the safe spot, or because my healer panicked and didn't realize I popped my mitigations and could take the AoE I was standing in... (Plz trust your tanks!) <--- All of these were 100% Random encounters.

This makes the timing and use of Rescue FAR different between static groups and random PUGs you get in DF. Most of my bad experiences have happened in groups with Randoms in it where they absolutely refused to communicate.

Here's a few of my idea: Add an actual cast time to it. Not instant. Will it put a damper on quick rescues? Sure. And we're not talking a LENGTHY cast time. Something short perhaps would do well. Maybe half the time it takes to cast Esuna. Esuna is 0.94 seconds. This would give PLENTY of time for a tank to pop Arm's Length to dodge it. Most of Esuna's cast time is literally the animation to cast Esuna. Maybe adding that to Rescue would be great. A small, maybe 0.50 Second cast time so there's some visual cue that Rescue will be cast and a way to kick the latency bug.

Do people regularly pay attention to healer castbars? I don't, that's all I know. I have my doubt someone could pop arms length in half a second, and a troll could still use a swiftcast on it to bypass that entirely.

I have run thousands of instances. I have maybe been inappropriately rescued once or twice. But it didn't make so much of an impression on me that I can remember specifics. Most of the time I don't see the ability being used at all.

From my perspective it seems strange that some people are being rescued so often they feel victimized by the ability.

Is there something that some people are doing, which I am not, that makes other people feel they need special rescue attention?

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Originally Posted by ctcc42

I have run thousands of instances. I have maybe been inappropriately rescued once or twice. But it didn't make so much of an impression on me that I can remember specifics. Most of the time I don't see the ability being used at all.

From my perspective it seems strange that some people are being rescued so often they feel victimized by the ability.

Is there something that some people are doing, which I am not, that makes other people feel they need special rescue attention?

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I'm guessing you always run away from AoE markers, instead of just taking the hit and self healing with Second Wind or Bloodbath so you won't lose any uptime.

For people who enjoy trying to maximize their efficiency Healers can become a pretty annoying obstacle.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I'm guessing you always run away from AoE markers, instead of just taking the hit and self healing with Second Wind or Bloodbath so you won't lose any uptime.

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I do this all the time and I don't even recall it happening once. Either the healers on Crystal don't bother slotting rescue or they recognize a DPS can handle an AoE or two.