Dancer 6.0 Speculation

I'm going to be the oddball who asks for a revival dance for DNC. A 3 to 5 minute cooldown, but lets you revive any party member. If we're going to be lowest on the damage department due to being support, we may as well go all in.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'm going to be the oddball who asks for a revival dance for DNC. A 3 to 5 minute cooldown, but lets you revive any party member. If we're going to be lowest on the damage department due to being support, we may as well go all in.

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Would be interesting is it was tied to the Partner mechanic and had something like this:

• Encore: Grants Encore status to self and Partner. If Partner is unconscious, grants Raise status to partner instead.
• Encore status: If HP reaches 0, grants Raise status.

or something to that effect.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'm going to be the oddball who asks for a revival dance for DNC. A 3 to 5 minute cooldown, but lets you revive any party member. If we're going to be lowest on the damage department due to being support, we may as well go all in.

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Dancer just isn't mandatory enough I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Dancer just isn't mandatory enough I suppose.

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TBF they would still have to compete with SNM and RDM on this front and their rezzes are more free being GCDs.

The combat buffs and AoEs could be addressed by giving those qualities to BRD and giving MCH back Grenado Shot and have a Heated counterpart (while also giving BRD back its equivalent)

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

TBF they would still have to compete with SNM and RDM on this front and their rezzes are more free being GCDs.

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Not to mention that if the rez has a long cooldown, you'd still want SMN and RDM because they can rez multiple times in a row.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'm going to be the oddball who asks for a revival dance for DNC. A 3 to 5 minute cooldown, but lets you revive any party member. If we're going to be lowest on the damage department due to being support, we may as well go all in.

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What is this obsession with giving jobs reses that never in their job history even be able too. Unless this is the same dude who keeps asking for reses in MCH and BLM of all things..

Anyways no, Ressing is a expensive MP skill not a Ogcd because “why not” is Dancer this one note that no one can thing of anything else to give it but a res

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Originally Posted by Jirah

What is this obsession with giving jobs reses that never in their job history even be able too. Unless this is the same dude who keeps asking for reses in MCH and BLM of all things..

Anyways no, Ressing is a expensive MP skill not a Ogcd because “why not” is Dancer this one note that no one can thing of anything else to give it but a res

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Rez makes no sense for MCH and BLM. And yes, Dancer is incredibly one note, it's the easiest DPS in the game to do well with.

no need for DNC to have Raise ,
anyway but for DNC I'd really like Improvisation to be like Mantra+Brotherhood these "transition" skills are mediocre,
be nice if Dancer got some sort of way to Garuntee Fan dance 1+2 aswell .
inb4 another trait to add another charge to gap closer

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Originally Posted by Duskane

no need for DNC to have Raise ,
anyway but for DNC I'd really like Improvisation to be like Mantra+Brotherhood these "transition" skills are mediocre,
be nice if Dancer got some sort of way to Garuntee Fan dance 1+2 aswell .
inb4 another trait to add another charge to gap closer

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My best bet would be Flourish to receive a trait that would make the flourished abilities a guaranteed feather.

Alternatively, an Improvisation revamp to grant feathers (in a shorter channel time) instead of Esprit.

I enjoy the fact that to do AoE, a DNC has to be in melee range... But what I don't like is the tiny moment that you have to go there during Flourish to have a CHANCE on your flourished aoe abilities to grant a feather. I think they should go to either extremes... remove completely the necessity of being in melee range for your single target rotation or add MORE melee elements to it, like RDM that bounces back and forth.

For one I’d want flourish or perhaps a minimized version of it to be present somewhere earlier in DNC Kit. Perhaps it only procs Reverse cascade and Reverse Windmill. Then a trait that expands it as early DNC instances are dreadfully boring.

Esprit needs to be reworked abit, having Saber Dance tied to it is very off handed and Esprit being tied to Standard Finish feels tacked on. The gauge feels like a lesser Chakra. With no real guarantee to increase it and having it being reliant on your partner is abit much imo. Or just a way to guarantee esprit without Improvisation. Seems like a wasted mechanic tied on the last 4 levels then again these aren’t deal breakers DNC has very nice platform to be a better job. But I just can’t think of much to add to it

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Originally Posted by Jirah

For one I’d want flourish or perhaps a minimized version of it to be present somewhere earlier in DNC Kit. Perhaps it only procs Reverse cascade and Reverse Windmill. Then a trait that expands it as early DNC instances are dreadfully boring.

Esprit needs to be reworked abit, having Saber Dance tied to it is very off handed and Esprit being tied to Standard Finish feels tacked on. The gauge feels like a lesser Chakra. With no real guarantee to increase it and having it being reliant on your partner is abit much imo. Or just a way to guarantee esprit without Improvisation. Seems like a wasted mechanic tied on the last 4 levels then again these aren’t deal breakers DNC has very nice platform to be a better job. But I just can’t think of much to add to it

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We could have each GCD single target gets 5 espirt, similar to how Tanks have it. But then again we might also have to apply that to BRD as well as its own gauge is also RNG based.

Come to think of it, we could also make Saber Dance more like Apex Arrow and be more powerful the more espirt we have.

I expect DNC to get from lvl 80 - 90 these things:

A single target version of Saber Dance. BLM and SAM both got these things this expansion.
A Fan Dance 4, making them rework Fan Dances so that 1 becomes 3 and 2 becomes 4.
A trait that causes Saber Dance to reset your flourish timers. Not the skill it's self but the timers of the flourishes you currently have access to. Or...
A Trait that causes Saber Dance to generate a Feather proc at 25% - 50% chance. Or both.
A skill or trait that causes your next dance to critically hit. (Probably shouldn't expect this one.)
A small 10 potency AoE burst whenever you do a step in a dance. (Please? I want to feel like I'm still contributing while I'm dancing.)
Improvisation to not require party members to generate Esprit guage. (Please for the love of all that is holy do this in 5.5. SAM doesn't require party members to generate Kenki with Meditate!!!)

That's all I expect / hope. Read something about Peacock feathers becoming Phoenix feathers. Could be done with a trait that just increases their potency. Oh... Even better. Maybe it's a proc from doing Saber Dance that you will generate one Phoenix Proc which just upgrades your Fan Dance 1 and 2 buttons into Phoenix Dance buttons. Can still only hold 4 feathers but a Phoenix Feather will just replace a Peacock Feather allowing you to store up to 3 Phoenix Feathers... hmm I'm liking this idea more and more as it's kind of a evolution of the job in a way... kind a lol.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

That's all I expect / hope. Read something about Peacock feathers becoming Phoenix feathers. Could be done with a trait that just increases their potency. Oh... Even better. Maybe it's a proc from doing Saber Dance that you will generate one Phoenix Proc which just upgrades your Fan Dance 1 and 2 buttons into Phoenix Dance buttons. Can still only hold 4 feathers but a Phoenix Feather will just replace a Peacock Feather allowing you to store up to 3 Phoenix Feathers... hmm I'm liking this idea more and more as it's kind of a evolution of the job in a way... kind a lol.

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I'm all for it, but deepening on how that might turn out that might step on SNM's toes.

That said if we're gonna be cribbing a little form other job aesthetics, I kinda want an aesthetic shift closer to AST and thus have the skill set reference the Summer Triangle (and the Cowherd and Weaver Girl story) and the Apus (Bird of Paradise) constellation.

Like have a trait that:

1. Does the weak AoE thing you mentioned for the steps, or a similar AoE Heal
2. Changes the GCD Attacks or their respective steps to reflect the Constellations of Aquilla, Lyra, Cygnus and Apus (respectably) under a "Luminary" buff prolly granted by Saber Dance
3. General Potency Buff or a Temperance esque effect (less damage taken when near the dancer)
4. A finisher that consumes the stance/buff to unless a 1000 or thereabouts Single Target attack

On a side note as FD3 is an AoE attack wit would make sense to make that an upgrade for FD2 if anything, and have the other FD upgrade be just a stronger potency single target.

Might flesh out this "Celestial bird" motif a little later

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

On a side note as FD3 is an AoE attack wit would make sense to make that an upgrade for FD2 if anything, and have the other FD upgrade be just a stronger potency single target.

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I figured that if they do what I was thinking about the Fan Dances they would just make Fan Dance 3 a purely single target and higher potency move and have Fan Dance 4 be the upgraded AoE move.

Alright this post is gonna flesh out the Celestial bird thing I mentioned earlier in as a hypothetical 81-90 kit. 3 Traits and 2 Buttons

1. Luminary: A trait that allows Saber Dance to grant the eponymous buff. a 60 burst window that changes the Single Target and AOE attacks into stronger (+30 potency each) counterparts.

• Cascade becomes Aquilla's Cascade. Windmill becomes Altair
• Fountain becomes Lyra's Strings. Bladeshower becomes Vega
• Reverse Cascade becomes Cygnus's Bridge. Rising Windmill becomes Deneb
• Fountainfall becomes Bird of Paradise. Bloodshower becomes Paradise's Shower

2. Peacock's Flight. Another trait that increases movement speed and also changes Flourish to ensure the proc'd attacks always gain feathers.

3. Rhythm: A CD that allows Esprit to be generated by each step. Expires upon use of 4 step actions (Either a Technical or 2 Standards) 120 seconds.

4. Blues: a Trait that augments Rhythm to Grant a lower amount of Espirt per single target GCD

5. Starlight Dance: 400-600 pot Single Target attack that takes 50 Esprit, also grants Luminary.

Prolly could use some tweaking both gameplay and flavor-wise, but I do think it might work and the result would be a dazzling experience.

I want improvisation to be changed.
-when triggered you are stuck in place and the dancing ui pops up and each dance skill would do some damage.
depending on the dance combo it would change into a dance that effects people in its radius
Astral Dance- creates sparkles everywhere.Stuns!
Pheonix Dance- makes an aoe dot
Holy dance. increases incoming healing for allies in your radius

2 new skills.
Shantay- gives you a quarter esprit does single target damage.
Sashe- gives you 1 feather and does low single target damage.

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Originally Posted by artypartytime

2 new skills.
Shantay- gives you a quarter esprit does single target damage.
Sashe- gives you 1 feather and does low single target damage.

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Ru Paul vibes, lol. No, I would much prefer the above one "Celestial Bird", sounds awesome!! I have high hopes for dancer, hence of Radz at han.

Honestly, I just hope for one thing.

Lessened dps tax with a reduced max range as trade off (make the range of DNC match Blade Shower for the ranged skills) it's already far more efficient for us to fight as a pseudo melee as is, they might as well take the kid gloves off and emphasize the hit and run, skirting the edges of danger and risk reward for the DNC and I'd more than happily give up curing Waltz for it.

We are afterall a Shotgun style class, we get in close, we do big bursty chunks of damage, we back off. That's the true playstyle the Job reflects, but right now it's held in an identity crisis between being a ranged support buff battery and a bursty high risk, high reward pseudo melee/ranged mobile fighter.

I say go all in on the Shotgun burst, let the BRDs be the buffers, DNC be the job they clearly want to be in playstyle but clearly held back by things that kinda doesn't fit what their core kit screams.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Alright this post is gonna flesh out the Celestial bird thing I mentioned earlier in as a hypothetical 81-90 kit. 3 Traits and 2 Buttons

1. Luminary: A trait that allows Saber Dance to grant the eponymous buff. a 60 burst window that changes the Single Target and AOE attacks into stronger (+30 potency each) counterparts.

• Cascade becomes Aquilla's Cascade. Windmill becomes Altair
• Fountain becomes Lyra's Strings. Bladeshower becomes Vega
• Reverse Cascade becomes Cygnus's Bridge. Rising Windmill becomes Deneb
• Fountainfall becomes Bird of Paradise. Bloodshower becomes Paradise's Shower

2. Peacock's Flight. Another trait that increases movement speed and also changes Flourish to ensure the proc'd attacks always gain feathers.

3. Rhythm: A CD that allows Esprit to be generated by each step. Expires upon use of 4 step actions (Either a Technical or 2 Standards) 120 seconds.

4. Blues: a Trait that augments Rhythm to Grant a lower amount of Espirt per single target GCD

5. Starlight Dance: 400-600 pot Single Target attack that takes 50 Esprit, also grants Luminary.

Prolly could use some tweaking both gameplay and flavor-wise, but I do think it might work and the result would be a dazzling experience.

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I recommend you start a job rework thread with this in mind, love to hear input and DNC has no pioneers unlike jobs like MNK DRK and SMN

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Honestly, I just hope for one thing.

Lessened dps tax with a reduced max range as trade off (make the range of DNC match Blade Shower for the ranged skills) it's already far more efficient for us to fight as a pseudo melee as is, they might as well take the kid gloves off and emphasize the hit and run, skirting the edges of danger and risk reward for the DNC and I'd more than happily give up curing Waltz for it.

We are afterall a Shotgun style class, we get in close, we do big bursty chunks of damage, we back off. That's the true playstyle the Job reflects, but right now it's held in an identity crisis between being a ranged support buff battery and a bursty high risk, high reward pseudo melee/ranged mobile fighter.

I say go all in on the Shotgun burst, let the BRDs be the buffers, DNC be the job they clearly want to be in playstyle but clearly held back by things that kinda doesn't fit what their core kit screams.

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id like to hear more of this input

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Originally Posted by Jirah

id like to hear more of this input

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For further context on why I feel the DNC should go the route of high risk burster type.

As we already know, Step Finishes do more damage the closer we are to the targets, since they operate as a fading PBaOE that gets weaker the further the target is away from the DNCs position on triggering the finish, Flourish encourages further to fight up close two use both our melee procs and Blade Shower is further encouragement still.

Throw in our current "best" partners for Closed Dance are typically Melee dps (SAM/MNK/NIN) it's further encouragement to fight in close quarters as often as possible.

Throughout ShB I've tried to play DNC a variety of ways, but it's an inescapable truth that the very core mechanics in their kit are built around getting in close and personal and not stood back at range

This is where the identity crisis really hits home with the job, the desire to be something they aren't which pushes against what they are and what they inevitably should be in future.

They're range taxed, just like every ranged class yet spend the majority of every fight in melee or close to it.

They're support taxed because they have support abilities meaning their higher risk isn't rewarded if their partner isn't performing.

They're mobility taxed, which yes, this tax is fair, they're perhaps the most mobile job having a 3 charges omnidirectional dash.

They're heal taxed because their heal is a "group heal", not a personal one.


As I said, for me, I want them to make a decision on what they clearly want us to be from our core kit design and not bog us down with cannibalized supportive skills that don't mesh well with the core philosophy of the jobs current playstyle design.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

SNip.

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ahh i see what ur getting at i dont agree with the mobility tax as En avant is the way it is to do ur buffs and physical flourishes and maybe a step then en avant away but i agree DNC isnt as ranged as MCH or BRD. Which inherently makes it more organic in a way as MCH can run circles without a care in the world and BRD only needs to be close for Battle voice and song effects which 30 yalms isnt too worrisome hence why they dont have as much mobility skills under the context of single fights which is 90% of the game.

What would be a suggestion for this to no longer be a issue

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Originally Posted by Jirah

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This is the set of changes I'd probably look at, most of them likely wouldn't happen without some sort of rework.

Give us a range Cap of 25 Yalms matching up to Sabre Dance for all our range, Auto Attack, Cascade, Reverse Cascade, Fountain and Fountain fall

Move Sabre dance to an OGCD

Add a Bleed effect to one of our skills, Fountainfall seems like a good candidate

Remove the ranged tax on all DNC potency's

Curing Waltz removed, replaced with bloodbath

Devilment remains as is.

Improvisation reworked to work similar to Accelerate, while Flourish switches on your procs, Improvisation guarantees they'll generate Four Fold Feathers or Fan Dance will proc Fan Dance III (obviously it can't be used for all procs active as that would be overpowered, 3 seems fair)

My wishlist looks something like:

Esprit: I think a Single Target Saber Dance is boring and lazy. I think this about Flare/Despair too, but this isn't the thread for that. I think what I'd prefer to see here is something like a 15-cost oGCD spender, along the same lines as RDM's Reprise in the "I don't want to overcap but am not in a position to spend this properly" design space. Would mostly be used during Flourish/Technical windows when getting Esprit procs faster than you can use them is a thing that actually happens.

Improvisation: Yeah, pretty lackluster as it is now. Not sure what I'd do here. Maybe make it always give 10 per tick (or 5, if that's too strong. Just some number that actually makes sense), and having people in it gives you feathers? Dunno.

Dances: I don't want a 3rd dance. What I want is something that interacts with our dances. 3 general ideas here:
-- A skill to temporarily partner a 2nd person (Danse à Trois)
-- A Continuation-style ability that's used between steps. (I would call this one Flourish, but that's already a thing)
-- Something that's specifically used either after a completing a Step, or perhaps immediately after the buff from a Step ends. Maybe even a reason to actually let Standard Step fall off? (Encore)

Dance Partner: Something that actually cares about the location of your partner other than Curing Waltz would be nice. I'm imagining something like you toss your chakram at your partner and they throw it back, damaging any enemies between you. Or it spins around them and returns, whatever the animation has to do for that to work. (Relay)

Minor QoL wish: When dancing, make the steps replace the AoE combo buttons, as well as the ST ones.

Since Dancer has the lowest personal damage it should be reworked a bit just like how machinist or monk.

- rng on main skills should vanish so no more 50% to get a combo skill (which dmg is low as it is even if it procs) yet leave rng on the feather aspect
- flourish should either give at the start 4feathers or work like RDM accelerate allowing to get 1 feather for next 4attacks
- curing waltz potency up/CD timer down since such low potency for such a long CD is just bad
- add bleed dot to one of the combo skills or to sabre dance
- adding a single target esprit skill with high potency would be nice
- adding raise/revive/phoenix dance for the cost of 100esprit for a single target/partner or a small 5yrd zone revive (you exchange dps for support)
- lowering closed position skill level from 50 to 20/30 since its a core skill as a dancer and it would help lower level players to get a bit more dmg in old dungeons
- fan3 is a 100% proc after each feather
- sabre dance (esprit skills) cut from GCD and placed as oGCD so it doesnt choke rotations

- Imrprovisation skill needs more rewok, like after using it you are bound to the spot like always but you create something like a "stage". Like before, the more people are around you yo gain more espirt, but it would also adds feathers (4feather for full skill cycle). As for everyone on the stage they get buffed with "dmg up and healing potency up" so it would kinda make people want to be on the stage to buff themself but also help you gain resources in the process.

Other option for improvisation would be like how the name tells, you stand in a place like before gaining esprit but you are pressing dance moves in order in the 16sec gap to increase stacks (up to 8moves) on your finishing move. Kinda for all correctly pressed moves in the 16sec gap you get a 3k potency attack as finisher, each mistake or moveing would cancel the skill up and get you a 500-600pot as a fail prize.

Dancer over the whole expansion was not shown any love/buffs/changes/fixes/reworks since the class needs to get close for aoe skills its more of a risk one compared to mch and bard who can spam from far away, yet its suffering from lowest dmg syndrome.

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Originally Posted by Nepthys

Since Dancer has the lowest personal damage it should be reworked a bit just like how machinist or monk.

- rng on main skills should vanish so no more 50% to get a combo skill (which dmg is low as it is even if it procs) yet leave rng on the feather aspect
- flourish should either give at the start 4feathers or work like RDM accelerate allowing to get 1 feather for next 4attacks
- curing waltz potency up/CD timer down since such low potency for such a long CD is just bad
- add bleed dot to one of the combo skills or to sabre dance
- adding a single target esprit skill with high potency would be nice
- adding raise/revive/phoenix dance for the cost of 100esprit for a single target/partner or a small 5yrd zone revive (you exchange dps for support)
- lowering closed position skill level from 50 to 20/30 since its a core skill as a dancer and it would help lower level players to get a bit more dmg in old dungeons
- fan3 is a 100% proc after each feather
- sabre dance (esprit skills) cut from GCD and placed as oGCD so it doesnt choke rotations

- Imrprovisation skill needs more rewok, like after using it you are bound to the spot like always but you create something like a "stage". Like before, the more people are around you yo gain more espirt, but it would also adds feathers (4feather for full skill cycle). As for everyone on the stage they get buffed with "dmg up and healing potency up" so it would kinda make people want to be on the stage to buff themself but also help you gain resources in the process.

Other option for improvisation would be like how the name tells, you stand in a place like before gaining esprit but you are pressing dance moves in order in the 16sec gap to increase stacks (up to 8moves) on your finishing move. Kinda for all correctly pressed moves in the 16sec gap you get a 3k potency attack as finisher, each mistake or moveing would cancel the skill up and get you a 500-600pot as a fail prize.

Dancer over the whole expansion was not shown any love/buffs/changes/fixes/reworks since the class needs to get close for aoe skills its more of a risk one compared to mch and bard who can spam from far away, yet its suffering from lowest dmg syndrome.

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I've taken a decently clean run on e5s last tier and did some calculations.
I've only taken into account the RNG and Sabre Dance changes because those were the most specific ones with clear potencies attached. So no Flourish change, added bleed or Impro change taken into account.
It was roughly a 20% pDPS buff which is more than the gap between DNC and BLM at any given percentile and put my 80% run on par with a BLM, the strongest dps in e5s, playing at 95%. I've been specifically taking BLM to emphasize the insane buff this would mean because e5s was a very BLM-friendly fight, meaning it was an almost perfect scenario for it and can only get worse in pretty much every other fight.

That was not taking into account further buffs from Flourish, a dot added for free and Impro change, mind you.
Nor how much more valuable additional heal support or the option to ress for a dps loss is and how attractive it would make DNC compared to the other physical ranged.

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Originally Posted by Nepthys

Since Dancer has the lowest personal damage it should be reworked a bit just like how machinist or monk.

- rng on main skills should vanish so no more 50% to get a combo skill (which dmg is low as it is even if it procs) yet leave rng on the feather aspect
- flourish should either give at the start 4feathers or work like RDM accelerate allowing to get 1 feather for next 4attacks
- curing waltz potency up/CD timer down since such low potency for such a long CD is just bad
- add bleed dot to one of the combo skills or to sabre dance
- adding a single target esprit skill with high potency would be nice
- adding raise/revive/phoenix dance for the cost of 100esprit for a single target/partner or a small 5yrd zone revive (you exchange dps for support)
- lowering closed position skill level from 50 to 20/30 since its a core skill as a dancer and it would help lower level players to get a bit more dmg in old dungeons
- fan3 is a 100% proc after each feather
- sabre dance (esprit skills) cut from GCD and placed as oGCD so it doesnt choke rotations

- Imrprovisation skill needs more rewok, like after using it you are bound to the spot like always but you create something like a "stage". Like before, the more people are around you yo gain more espirt, but it would also adds feathers (4feather for full skill cycle). As for everyone on the stage they get buffed with "dmg up and healing potency up" so it would kinda make people want to be on the stage to buff themself but also help you gain resources in the process.

Other option for improvisation would be like how the name tells, you stand in a place like before gaining esprit but you are pressing dance moves in order in the 16sec gap to increase stacks (up to 8moves) on your finishing move. Kinda for all correctly pressed moves in the 16sec gap you get a 3k potency attack as finisher, each mistake or moveing would cancel the skill up and get you a 500-600pot as a fail prize.

Dancer over the whole expansion was not shown any love/buffs/changes/fixes/reworks since the class needs to get close for aoe skills its more of a risk one compared to mch and bard who can spam from far away, yet its suffering from lowest dmg syndrome.

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give a rez to the dancer what a bad idea
and even though it would cost dps, it would make the job completely broken, the dancer is already the most credible of the 3 ranged dps,
on the other hand yes it is necessary to delete the rng .


well mastered, the dancer far exceeds the dps of the bard and the machinist,
while bringing colosal damage to his team.

Feeling wise, Sabre dance made into an oGCD ability as many have said before. Seems to be one of the few things that feels like it breaks the flow.

Improvisation always feels a little underwhelming and out of place. Not sure if the +% bonus healing would be better as an acquired buff you get for being in the field of affect rather than part of the channel, or something else.
The gain of Espirit feels a bit slow even with a full party beside you.

I really wish they would post what the % chance to gain Espirit is or something a bit more concrete. Feels like you gain it much faster under the effect under Technical vs Standard.

The single target weapon skills that change into dance skills should also apply to the AOE abilities. I am going to make a suggestion post about that one.

I wish Flourishing Fan Dance III had more weight to it other than another damage step, but hey, its a free oGCD AOE so can't complain too much on that one.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

For further context on why I feel the DNC should go the route of high risk burster type.

As we already know, Step Finishes do more damage the closer we are to the targets, since they operate as a fading PBaOE that gets weaker the further the target is away from the DNCs position on triggering the finish, Flourish encourages further to fight up close two use both our melee procs and Blade Shower is further encouragement still.

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Yes you want to be close for the procs, but that is not how dances work at all. They do the same damage point blank as they do at max range.

On topic the main thing I want to see from 6.0 is a reworked improv, it's boring and honestly just awful compared to the other "downtime" buttons. The most use it gets is weaving it for the healing bonus

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

As we already know, Step Finishes do more damage the closer we are to the targets, since they operate as a fading PBaOE that gets weaker the further the target is away from the DNCs position on triggering the finish, Flourish encourages further to fight up close two use both our melee procs and Blade Shower is further encouragement still.

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That is not how Finishes work.

Finish does max damage to the nearest target, no matter how far away they are. All other targets besides the closest take only 1/4 damage. There is no distance scaling.

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Originally Posted by Silvra_Mihgo

I really wish they would post what the % chance to gain Espirit Esprit is or something a bit more concrete. Feels like you gain it much faster under the effect under Technical vs Standard.

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That's because under Standard step only you and your dance partner generate Esprit. Under Technical step everyone who wasn't in Narnia when you finished your dance generates Esprit.

I switched to Dancer a few weeks ago, and from my own playtesting, I'd mainly like to see four things.

1. Removing cooldowns from Fan Dance abilities if possible. Having to deal with that cooldown while trying to manage my GCD at the same time is kinda clunky.
2. Having Standard and Technical Step replace the AoE combo on usage. Just a QoL change that'd make AoE'ing a lot more convenient for controller players.
3. Having Saber Dance be oGCD, or remain on GCD, but carry a DoT effect for a touch of added complexity.
4. Improvisation actually made usable outside of fringe cases. Maybe a per player chance of a feather proc every tick?

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

1. Removing cooldowns from Fan Dance abilities if possible. Having to deal with that cooldown while trying to manage my GCD at the same time is kinda clunky.

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I don't understand. In what way does it interfere with your GCD? Are you trying to

GCD > Fan Dance I/II > Fan Dance I/II

?? You're not meant to. You should only

GCD > Fan Dance I/II > Fan Dance III
or GCD > Fan Dance III > Fan Dance I/II

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3. Having Saber Dance be oGCD, or remain on GCD, but carry a DoT effect for a touch of added complexity.

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You generate so much Esprit during a Technical window that you might use it three or four times. If you want it to be oGCD then its potency needs to be reduced by about 300 to account for not replacing any GCDs. If you want to make it a DoT, it'll get overwritten multiple times during a Technical window.

I dunno if they'll improve this with a trait, but the only thing that makes me prefer BRD or MCH over DNC right now is the fact that DNC got to go through 2 layers of RNG to get their Feathers... Add a 3rd layer if you take in consideration Fan Dance 2.

To me this leads to a rather inflexible playstyle regarding feather management... Because as soon as you get 3 feathers, you gotta hoard them for the TS phase, because you wouldn't wanna risk these layers of RNG not allowing you to enter in the burst phase with 3 or 4 feathers.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I dunno if they'll improve this with a trait, but the only thing that makes me prefer BRD or MCH over DNC right now is the fact that DNC got to go through 2 layers of RNG to get their Feathers... Add a 3rd layer if you take in consideration Fan Dance 2.

To me this leads to a rather inflexible playstyle regarding feather management... Because as soon as you get 3 feathers, you gotta hoard them for the TS phase, because you wouldn't wanna risk these layers of RNG not allowing you to enter in the burst phase with 3 or 4 feathers.

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There's really nothing to improve with it since you're highly likely to get them even with the layers. If you have a ninja in your party you can even use them during the in-between trick attack phases since floursh also comes off CD by that time. Plus you don't really gain much by using the feathers outside of burst windows anyways so the RNG isn't really a problem. You have 120s to get back your feathers anyways XD.

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Originally Posted by Rymi64

There's really nothing to improve with it since you're highly likely to get them even with the layers. If you have a ninja in your party you can even use them during the in-between trick attack phases since floursh also comes off CD by that time. Plus you don't really gain much by using the feathers outside of burst windows anyways so the RNG isn't really a problem. You have 120s to get back your feathers anyways XD.

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I mean, yeah you have a point that the chances of RNG not having you at 3/4 feathers after 2 minutes is pretty slim, my biggest issue is more with the inflexibility of having just 1 feather to spend through 2 minutes because there's very little to weave through your regular rotation with just 1 feather - the pace feels way too slow (as opposed way too frantic in TS phase).

If for example, Flourish (the skill) had it's proc'd abilities to grant 100% a feather, it would be great because it meant that you'd have a 4 feather flexibility through your downtime phase, but also would have a guaranteed way to replenish your feathers while getting close to TS.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

I don't understand. In what way does it interfere with your GCD? Are you trying to

GCD > Fan Dance I/II > Fan Dance I/II

?? You're not meant to. You should only

GCD > Fan Dance I/II > Fan Dance III
or GCD > Fan Dance III > Fan Dance I/II



You generate so much Esprit during a Technical window that you might use it three or four times. If you want it to be oGCD then its potency needs to be reduced by about 300 to account for not replacing any GCDs. If you want to make it a DoT, it'll get overwritten multiple times during a Technical window.

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I play on controller, so from my experience, it's been fairly clunky trying to use Fan Dance procs, then immediately switch to using GCD, then back to using more procs, then back to using the GCD, all within the space of around 4-5 seconds, all while trying to make sure I don't let my dances drift, that my buffs are up, whether or not to use Esprit, AND doing mechanics, all at the same time.

For me, it usually ends up as Fan Dance I>Fan Dance III>ohnomyGCDslippedismyEspritat80doIhaveFlourishuparemydancesoffCD, etc.

Everything else is absolutely smooth sailing, but I've found the Fan Dance cooldowns can make the burst windows awkward and clunky.

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

I play on controller, so from my experience, it's been fairly clunky trying to use Fan Dance procs, then immediately switch to using GCD, then back to using more procs, then back to using the GCD, all within the space of around 4-5 seconds, all while trying to make sure I don't let my dances drift, that my buffs are up, whether or not to use Esprit, AND doing mechanics, all at the same time.

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That's basically any job that double weaves, though.

DNC needs to have some RNG removed from their toolkit. I believe there is way too much random chance involved and I consider that lame gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

DNC needs to have some RNG removed from their toolkit. I believe there is way too much random chance involved and I consider that lame gameplay.

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I agree. That doesn't mean we can't have RNG of course, but we need to better reduce our RNG spread. They reworked AST because RNG was bad, and surprisingly kept it with DNC. Having a high RNG spread means you can't balance the job well to its peers. If you balance it based on the average damage, then half the time DNC would be the best ranged. If you do it based on best RNG, then you'd have to farm RNG to make it comparable to other ranged. And of course, if you balance based on the lowest RNG, then most runs DNC would be superior. It's kind of ridiculous that you can be in a situation where DNC has more raid contribution than a melee DPS if you farm enough RNG.

Ideally, they'd just reduce flourish to 30 seconds. This makes it so you rarely end up in a situation where you won't have a proc. This won't fix the fan dance 1 and 3 RNG though. Also depending on whatever new dances or other procs/combos they add, it might be too much.

I've mained Dancer since Shadowbringers began and have played it roughly 95% of the time outside of leveling other jobs. This is my personal wishlist/prediction for 6.0:

1. Move Flourish down to level 54 from level 72. Synched content as dancer is particularly boring and while I do hope that we see some sort of solution for this for all jobs, I see no reason why Flourish needs to stay at such a high level for what it is really. It's a small thing, but I think it would be well worth it.

2. Change or remove Improvisation. I see no real value from an engagement standpoint for these "use-it-once-during-phase-change-channels" such as this, SAM's Meditation, or MNK's Anatman. There used to be a case for MNK where holding onto your Greased Lightning was important, so it made sense there, but now that that's gone, I really don't feel like these abilities add anything. You get a few extra resources during a phase shift then never touch these buttons ever again anywhere... woohoo?

One thing I've thought of is if Improvisation gives some effects to Emboite, Entrechat, Jete, and Pirouette when performing Standard Step--rather than having a predetermined pair that you have to Simon Says, you choose which two you want to use, and each is associated with some kind of utility. The question is, what would that utility be, and how could you make them all feel balanced without one feeling more important than the rest?

3. A trait that increases Esprit generation when you do not have a dance partner (roughly you should be gaining the same amount of Esprit as you normally would with a Dance Partner). This is largely just to make you gain more Esprit in solo content, not invalidate your dance partner in raids or dungeons, although perhaps it could have some niche value in fights where your party is dying a lot like when you get a rough party in Bozja.

4. New Action: Mincing Minuet - An OGCD Esprit spender that consumes 20 Esprit or something in that range on a 10 second CD. This is to help smoothen out burst phases where you're generating so much Esprit but don't have time to use Sabre Dance, like when you're at 80-90 Esprit during your technical window and Standard Step is about to come off cooldown. The damage should ultimately not overshadow using Sabre Dance.

5. New Action: Tempting Tango - This is not really a necessary action, but something I'd like to see anyway just as a throwback to the Dancer in older Final Fantasy Titles. This is a pointblank AoE that Confuses all enemies in range for 6 seconds and reduces their magic damage dealt by 10% for 15 seconds. Sits on a 60 second cooldown. You can totally argue that there's no point in adding this and I agree, but the confuse would be fun in dungeon pulls, deep dungeons, and instance zones like Bozja, and the magic damage gives is some added utility in raids. I'm really just throwing this out there to shoutout Dancer's origins.

6. New Action Phoenix Flourish - Using Flourish while in combat changes your next Flourish into Phoenix Flourish once (meaning once you use Phoenix Flourish, it changes back into regular Flourish. Phoenix Flourish not only grants you all of your Flourishes, but also grants you the Flight of the Phoenix buff for 20 seconds. Flight of the Phoenix increases the proc rate of all your flourishes to 100% and upgrades Fan Dance, Fan Dance II, and Fan Dance III into Phoenix Dance, Phoenix Dance II, and Phoenix Dance III respectively. They each have increased potency.

I find Dancer's burst phase a lot of fun, but the downtime between the end of your first Technical Step and the next can get a little slow, so this is designed to try and rectify that, though the challenge comes into trying to enforce it's use outside of your technical window as the point is not to just make the technical step burst more insane which is why Phoenix Flourish is something you alternate between Flourish uses. I think the idea needs a bit of work to iron out some complication areas, but I like the idea of thematically upgrading our peacock feathers into phoenix feathers for a period.