5.3 patch complete note. Yes just keept upgrade WAR and forget about DRK

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Isn't Storm's Eye just the same as Darkside now?

WAR is now a one combo job between IR bursts. Not exactly what I would have expected people here to demand for, but if it finally renders you capable of playing the job at a basic level, all the more power to you.

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To be fair, it doesn't really add anything to the spec to have them refreshing storm's eye every 30 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Isn't Storm's Eye just the same as Darkside now?

WAR is now a one combo job between IR bursts. Not exactly what I would have expected people here to demand for, but if it finally renders you capable of playing the job at a basic level, all the more power to you.

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its just QoL mainly but the job really needs to do something else even bringing brutal swing or Fracture back

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Isn't Storm's Eye just the same as Darkside now?

WAR is now a one combo job between IR bursts. Not exactly what I would have expected people here to demand for, but if it finally renders you capable of playing the job at a basic level, all the more power to you.

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No you still have to reapply it, but it just isn't as restrictive as before. Change was needed since dps was low and it was the only job that needed a full 1-2-3 to get its buff. Mythril Tempest still doesn't give you the SE buff so you still have to do it then you can spam aoe combo. Personally I would have preferred they return it to a 20% dmg buff like the old days but this is still a welcome change and will ultimately increase dps via more SP > more FC > more Infuriates > IC. Nascent Flash was mandatory since those "heals" used to belong to IB and SC while in Defiance. All they did was re-purpose it into another skill and made it very clunky to use but now its not. It's still a separate skill but what can you do when Deliverance is not there.

As for DRK its a one trick pony IMO. One combo rotation, TBN and spamming shadows (which replaced spamming DA ironically). I think TBN is both a curse and blessing. It is arguably the best defensive cds and only gets stronger with ilvl but DRK is balanced around that. It also performs well so Yoshi sees no reason to touch it. My advice however is to retcon the tanks in the next expansion back to the 4.0 series an give DRK back its blood weapon and quick gcd playstyle which coincidentally went to GNB. People say they like the fast play style of GNB but forgot how DRK Blood weapon used to work.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Aurora is a HoT version of Equilibrium. Brutal Shell (200 heal/200 shield) parallels the self-heal on Storm's Path (250 heal) and Souleater (300 heal). NF give the Warrior an insane amount of free self-healing.

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Dont forget WAR also has a 20% max HP heal from Thrill of Battle.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

Yes but there isn't a unified "here's how." There's several ideas, and all of them have their merits, but that's the problem.

WARs: Fix Nascent!
SE: How?
WARs: NO TARGET TO USE PLEASE.
SE: There done.

DRKs: FIX US!
SE: How?
DRKs: (several posts and topics and comments all bringing their own ideas)
SE: *shrugs* figure it out first.

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Look below how easily WAR main can Fake being DRK main and write a comment that support WAR buff.

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Originally Posted by Awful

Exactly these are QoL improvements which SE listened to the playerbase, Storms Eye being annoying to upkeep and Nascent not needing a target, thank you SE for listening to input.

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Originally Posted by Curisu

Did you get kicked out of savage groups and statics because you play DRK?
NO! Because the tanks are still balanced and you can play any tank you want.
These 2 just got QoL changes and the WAR should get a bit closer to DRK and PLD dmg.

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But what could Paladin or maybe WAR main in disguise know about LD? as far I know healer can pretty much start dancing during Hallow Ground.

KID YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS LIKE DURING 5.0 WHEN DRK WAS ASKED TO LEAVE THE SAVAGE PARTY THAT HAVE NO WHM.

Even a whole year later in 5.2 DRK are the only tank who got in problem when they're in party with no WHM. The only Tank who got problem with party that use strat that require Tank invuls.

All this talk coming from you is the same loop you lot try make it happen again and again > IGNORE ALL COMMENT FROM DRK AND HEALER AND SAY LD/DRK is fine>Make drk stay outlier>ASK FOR ADJUSTMENT FOR WAR>KEEP DRK AS AN OUTLIER AND LEAST FAVORABLE CHOICE.

If you can ignore the comment like these comment below then you should expect that from now on I can ignore your too.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

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You need to talk to my AST/SCH. They hate LD so much that in E7S I am required to always split the TB with my DRK tank instead of him invulning. Healers... HATE it because of how many resources you have to dump into it.

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Originally Posted by elioaiko

Healer main here.

I personally hate LD, the fact you need to recover the total HP of the DRK in order to purge the debuff is seriously annoying on AST and especially SCH.

Ofc on WHM it's a joke but having to essentially force WHM/DRK comps is what SE should avoid altogether. But having Benediction just makes the invuln a joke, since it defeats the urgent nature of it I suppose so why not change it?

At least with GNB/WAR it's something that can be fixed with an OGCD.

I suppose they can't find more unique invuln skills as GNB's just punches itself in the face (but really it's just a combination of Holmgang and Hallowed)

It's just a headache on non-WHM healers and people aren't always going to want to play WHM or should they be forced to for the convenience of dealing with LD.

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Originally Posted by Danelo

Have any of you seen the Familtsu's Shadowbringers Media Tour Interview transcript?:

Q: It'll take too long to discuss every job like this, so are there any other notable considerations you made?
Yoshida: There was also the debate over the oft-suggested BLM Raise.

Q: Because the other ranged magical DPS, SMN and RDM, both have their own raise actions, right? I think there are some that want one for BLM, and some that don't...
Yoshida: Just as an example, what if BLM's raise action was based on destructive power, and raised the target at 1 HP with the Walking Dead status? But in that case, healers would definitely complain... We thought of several ideas, including ones to increase the penalty for raising, but all of them resulted in "No one would use it then."

Really!!!? I'm confused. LD/WD is such an disappointing and unusable mechanic that you are willing to disallow it to be used for a BLM, mainly because it would be drawback to bringing the job (that is Yoshi P's main) and healer's wouldn't like it so ppl wouldn't use it BUT IT'S OKAY TO LEAVE AS IS FOR DARK KNIGHT????!

Ultimately, blm raise was debated and devs decided to go a different direction. But it seems that Yoshi P would have said no to WD style raise being implemented for the simple fact that it is unduely punishing compared to all the other raise abilities with in the ranged magic jobs. Hmmmm...

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I'm sick of people trying to spread misinformation and make DRK look like they have amazing ability which is utterly false
such as LD being 20 secs invul or try to make other people believe that it can be used up to 10 secs like Hallow Ground.

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Originally Posted by Miminming

No, even now DRK is the MT tank of choice,
People who want LD to change is just the DRK elitist that want more some probably just want a panic button which shouldn't be even a thing if played right... and less good healer or just want to get it easy healer... LD being a 20s invul has it uses and nich, it' perfectly fine as is.

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or how TNB is OP

TNB is only 5% stronger than it's previous version in stormblood but consume 500 mp more meanwhile DRK ability to regen HP and MP in Shadowbringers is pitiful . People kept parroting about how OP how amazing it's only have 15 secs recast but they have no clue like no clue at all that there is no DRK in Shadownbringers that could regenerate 3000 MP every 15 secs.







or even more disgusting idea that DRK wasn't supported to/ not allow to remove WD and came out of critical low hp after invul by themselves but WAR is supposed to be able to do it and should be allowed to do so.

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Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

DRK isn't supposed to be able to remove Walking Dead on their own, are you daft? The entire design of all of the invulns (barring HG) is that they each require healer intervention to keep the tank from dying immediately afterwards. As I already said, WAR is the only tank that can sometimes do it solo.

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what funny is
5.3
YOSHIDA AND FFXIV JOB DEV TEAM: We agreed WAR should be the only tank that could bring themselves out of 1% during invul and came out with plenty of hp with no problem. Oh and we'll bring WAR to the top of tank dps later too don't worry. WAR EXCLUSIVE. WAR'S PRIVILEGE!


WAR main used the argument that NF can't be used in solo content as a reason why LD is fine and shouldn't get rework but they keep asking for NF change so they can use it in solo content as well. WAR aren't know for stance dancing for nothing. They can change the excuse that they try to make it sound reasonable and valid anytime as long as it bring them closer to be the top tank again.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...5893854400.png

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Nice Shirt. It suits you.

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

But what could Paladin or maybe WAR main in disguise know about LD? as far I know healer can pretty much start dancing during Hallow Ground.

KID YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS LIKE DURING 5.0 WHEN DRK WAS ASKED TO LEAVE THE SAVAGE PARTY THAT HAVE NO WHM.

Even a whole year later in 5.2 DRK are the only tank who got in problem when they're in party with no WHM. The only Tank who got problem with party that use strat that require Tank invuls.

All this talk coming from you is the same loop you lot try make it happen again and again > IGNORE ALL COMMENT FROM DRK AND HEALER AND SAY LD/DRK is fine>Make drk stay outlier>ASK FOR ADJUSTMENT FOR WAR>KEEP DRK AS AN OUTLIER AND LEAST FAVORABLE CHOICE.

If you can ignore the comment like these comment below then you should expect that from now on I can ignore your too.














I'm sick of people trying to spread misinformation and make DRK look like they have amazing ability which is utterly false
such as LD being 20 secs invul or try to make other people believe that it can be used up to 10 secs like Hallow Ground.








or how TNB is OP

TNB is only 5% stronger than it's previous version in stormblood but consume 500 mp more meanwhile DRK ability to regen HP and MP in Shadowbringers is pitiful . People kept parroting about how OP how amazing it's only have 15 secs recast but they have no clue like no clue at all that there is no DRK in Shadownbringers that could regenerate 3000 MP every 15 secs.







or even more disgusting idea that DRK wasn't supported to/ not allow to remove WD and came out of critical low hp after invul by themselves but WAR is supposed to be able to do it and should be allowed to do so.



what funny is
5.3
YOSHIDA AND FFXIV JOB DEV TEAM: We agreed WAR should be the only tank that cloud bring themselves out of 1% during invul and came out with plenty of hp with no problem. Oh and we'll bring WAR to the top of tank dps later too don't worry. WAR EXCLUSIVE. WAR'S PRIVILEGE!


WAR main used the argument that NF can't be used in solo content as a reason why LD is fine and shouldn't get rework but they keep asking for NF change so they can use it in solo content as well. WAR aren't know for stance dancing for nothing. They can change the excuse that they try to make it sound reasonable and valid anytime as long as it bring them closer to be the top tank again.

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Wow....you really like DRK....like a lot O.o

DRK def needs some love. Just not re-adding the Dark Arts spam kind pls.

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

KID YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS LIKE DURING 5.0 WHEN DRK WAS ASKED TO LEAVE THE SAVAGE PARTY THAT HAVE NO WHM.

[...]
or how TNB is OP

TNB is only 5% stronger than it's previous version in stormblood but consume 500 mp more meanwhile DRK ability to regen HP and MP in Shadowbringers is pitiful . People kept parroting about how OP how amazing it's only have 15 secs recast but they have no clue like no clue at all that there is no DRK in Shadownbringers that could regenerate 3000 MP every 15 secs.

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Remember back in 3.x when DRK kept getting kicked out of every savage party that had the AST/SCH meta healer comp? Me neither.

Also, TBN is incredibly OP. It was super OP back in SB, it was great as a free 20% HP bubble shield. The fact it was buffed even further was not at all warranted (though entirely welcome). I'm a WAR main, but trust me when I say TBN is super OP!

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Originally Posted by Marxam

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You still have to reapply Darkside as well. Both are part of an iterative series of changes to make the jobs simpler and more 'accessible'. The very point of a combo based job is that there are restrictions that you have to make gameplay decisions around. When you take that away from WAR of all jobs, you're left with... nothing.

I do think that doubling down on self-healing theme is an interesting decision, and they really should just design everything in WAR's kit around it (and push the other jobs in different directions, such that every job doesn't have a token self-healing skill.) But with this amount of self-healing, they could easily (and should) switch the Living Dead concept over to WAR and call it a day. They're more than capable of self-cleansing.

I find it odd that WARs didnt get Thrill of Battle updated to be their on demand CD instead of Raw Intuition. (Also to help bring their original flavor of higher HP back)

Back on point, people forget DRKs LD was nerfed, DRKs lost the ability to increase a healers healing amount by 20%, which means DRKs only needed 80% of their max HP healed. Now its 100%.
Convalescence
And even then, ppl still complained when it was an 80%.

IMO either DRK needs a more effective self healing thats not used up from keeping DPS maintained (like equilibrium/thrill/N.flash/Aurora), lowered healing threshold requirement (like needing only 50/60/70/80% of max HP healed), or passive healing potency from others. (Such as +10/20/30/40/50% healed for more.) The rest of the ability can still function the same way.


(In reality, the HP sacrificing invuln should have been given to DRK, this way the temp HP shield works well in conjunction, due to server tick. WAR should have gotten the LD equivalent, which their self healing works well with. And GNB should have then been passed the Holmgang equivalent)

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

I find it odd that WARs didnt get Thrill of Battle updated to be their on demand CD instead of Raw Intuition. (Also to help bring their original flavor of higher HP back)

Back on point, people forget DRKs LD was nerfed, DRKs lost the ability to increase a healers healing amount by 20%, which means DRKs only needed 80% of their max HP healed. Now its 100%.
Convalescence
And even then, ppl still complained when it was an 80%.

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I theory, yes. In practice, no. Convalescence only worked on hardcasted healing aka Adlo, Physick, Cure 1&2 and Benefic 1&2 which even back in Stormblood weren't exactly something you wanted to spam to get someone's health back up.

In practice, if you don't have Bene up, there's probably going to be some degree of frantic hardcast GCD spam involved, as unglamorous as it sounds. When you have 10 seconds on the clock and no direct gauge of the amount of remaining healing required to cleanse the effect, it's rarely an exact science.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

In practice, if you don't have Bene up, there's probably going to be some degree of frantic hardcast GCD spam involved, as unglamorous as it sounds. When you have 10 seconds on the clock and no direct gauge of the amount of remaining healing required to cleanse the effect, it's rarely an exact science.

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that's usually the part where you say oh bene is on cooldown, okay oGCDs then spam a couple GCDs to full hp, then you know.

These aren't "Buffs" it's literally just quality of life choices but okay. See now, players that say they "Main" things but don't actually know what they are talking about, think that this OP is actually worth something... but it's really not.

The "buffs" they got are related to low tier content, aka, dungeons. These buffs do not effect Warrior's dps at all. I mean, you'll gain like a path combo from not having to deliberately set up eye to refresh before IR because it gives you 15s when you use IR... but that's like...three extra cleaves or something, over the course of a 10 min fight?

Nascent flash is literally just usable in solo instances, or when your healers eat glue and can't stop dying in dungeons, and you're the last one alive but let's be honest here, if you actually used the skill effectively, yo'ud use it on a DPS to keep them alive, too.

The eye buffs to a max of 60s is still INFERIOR to Edge of Shadow, which is ogcd, instant, and gives you 60 of duration that you can spam over and over... eye requires three gcds to set up and there's really no point to double eye outside of some transitions in savage...

You still get the same looping rotation, of Paths and guage dumps but again, you clearly don't know this otherwise you'd not make your thread complaining about a non issue and a non buff.

You are acting like somehow WAR got like... at 500 potency set of upgrades or something like that...

DRK needs nothing. Dark mind is amazing in raids as a lot of aoes and tank busters are magic in general, Ramuh specifically shines in this regard, E7s, and E8s to mitigate damage during prog.

TBN is busted. It's literally the best personal CD, as Raw intuition is complete GARBAGE compared to Nascent flash. It's just shake it off fodder.

DRK's damage is not packed into 10s windows where you are heavily punished for messing them up or not having complete and total uptime.... drks' damage is spread evenly, with Shadow, BW windows every 60s, Delirium every 90s, Edge that can be moved for raid buff windows whenever you want.... and so forth.

Warrior is stuck on a 90s cycle. that's it. 90s cycles SUCK in savage and ultimate. Don't believe me? Play a job with a 90s skill and TELL ME it's feeling good when those are coming up.

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Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

These aren't "Buffs" it's literally just quality of life choices but okay. See now, players that say they "Main" things but don't actually know what they are talking about, think that this OP is actually worth something... but it's really not.

The "buffs" they got are related to low tier content, aka, dungeons. These buffs do not effect Warrior's dps at all. I mean, you'll gain like a path combo from not having to deliberately set up eye to refresh before IR because it gives you 15s when you use IR... but that's like...three extra cleaves or something, over the course of a 10 min fight?

Nascent flash is literally just usable in solo instances, or when your healers eat glue and can't stop dying in dungeons, and you're the last one alive but let's be honest here, if you actually used the skill effectively, yo'ud use it on a DPS to keep them alive, too.

The eye buffs to a max of 60s is still INFERIOR to Edge of Shadow, which is ogcd, instant, and gives you 60 of duration that you can spam over and over... eye requires three gcds to set up and there's really no point to double eye outside of some transitions in savage...

You still get the same looping rotation, of Paths and guage dumps but again, you clearly don't know this otherwise you'd not make your thread complaining about a non issue and a non buff.

You are acting like somehow WAR got like... at 500 potency set of upgrades or something like that...

DRK needs nothing. Dark mind is amazing in raids as a lot of aoes and tank busters are magic in general, Ramuh specifically shines in this regard, E7s, and E8s to mitigate damage during prog.

TBN is busted. It's literally the best personal CD, as Raw intuition is complete GARBAGE compared to Nascent flash. It's just shake it off fodder.

DRK's damage is not packed into 10s windows where you are heavily punished for messing them up or not having complete and total uptime.... drks' damage is spread evenly, with Shadow, BW windows every 60s, Delirium every 90s, Edge that can be moved for raid buff windows whenever you want.... and so forth.

Warrior is stuck on a 90s cycle. that's it. 90s cycles SUCK in savage and ultimate. Don't believe me? Play a job with a 90s skill and TELL ME it's feeling good when those are coming up.

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Instead DRK is punished with Bad Blood Weapon that hard to get 5 gcds. Delirium 90s cycle is not smooth than IR either because you still need to weave between Bloodspiller and need to perfectly fit 10s window regardless of ping.

I'm not upset because DPS increase because I'm not like WAR who is sensitive when it come to tank dps. I'm upset because at least SE should adjust the Living Dead when they allow NF to be used in solo. And if I'm upset when WAR get another buff in the future that make them surpass gnb's dps it is because it mean SE decide to answer every buff WAR have asked for.



"Nascent flash is literally just usable in solo instances, or when your healers eat glue and can't stop dying in dungeons, and you're the last one alive but let's be honest here, if you actually used the skill effectively, yo'ud use it on a DPS to keep them alive, too."

Really? Then how about we look at the WAR discovery channel below?

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

WAR absolutely can restore themselves up. Maybe not to full, but after my WAR uses HG in E8s the healers never touch him, he just heals himself back up to like 70-80%.

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"TBN is busted. It's literally the best personal CD, as Raw intuition is complete GARBAGE compared to Nascent flash. It's just shake it off fodder."

If it's not busted then how can DRK mitigate when there're no other extra mitigation beside Dark Mind/Dark Emissary and the standard role 2 mitigation like rampart & shadowwall?

MORE IMPORTANTLY YOU DON'T NEED THE EXCESSIVE DAMAGE MITIGATION IN THIS GAME SAME WAY HOW YOU DON'T NEED ANY EXCESSIVE SHIELD.

TBN is busted yes and IT IS EXCESSIVE when parried with dark mind against the occasionally magic tank buster, they can nerf it down to 20% or below and compensated with something else, I don't care.

If you don't require stacking mitigation to survive the tank buster then anything you stack it with is excessive except heal which is where Raw Intuition+Equilibrium or Thrill of Battle+Nascent Flash+Inner Chaos/Your Burst Damage make it super good.
Not only you took the tank buster to the face and don't die but you came out with on par or more hp than DRK.

Having the entire job actions designed to truly shrine in ultimate [which only viable for people that can afford a nice static+have good low ping+got a lot of free time which is the least of player base, least of DRK player base] only is a bad idea that I have never support nor heard any drk main doing so.

If you read DRK thread over the past year you can see that "TBN must be keep as it is" isn't the condition we ever made when we ask for the *healer burden tag* Living Dead , bad weapon and Delirium to change.



"DRK needs nothing. Dark mind is amazing in raids"

[As I mention above DRK need LD adjustment and it has been discussed several times before with the result that both DRK and healer agreed it required tooooooo much healing resources.]

beside, the raids you mention is at the end of 3 expansions away from when this skill is acquired where this ability can *finally* be useful.

Shelton and Raw Intuition can mitigate both Magical and Physical. But Dark Mind can only mitigate magic only. It's useless if damage is physical.



"players that say they "Main" things but don't actually know what they are talking about, think that this OP is actually worth something... but it's really not."

Are you sure you aren't one of those?

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

Look below how easily WAR main can Fake being DRK main and write a comment that support WAR buff.

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cutting out all the rest of your lengthy post because...

bruh. chill. yes, it's annoying and aggravating DRK is seemingly always getting shafted. but look at the whole picture.
DRK's always been clunky in this middle-child-syndrome of the tanks. SE clearly ran out of ideas to design DRK for 5.0 that would draw more players to it, so they just made a kit nigh identical to WAR's. Now it "functions fine," even at the cost of it's identity being tied entirely to one skill that's good, and one skill that's bad.

Everyone has an opinion on how DRK can and should be fixed. there is NO UNIFIED CONSENSUS on fixing LD, let alone the rest of DRK's kit.
WAR's had specific ideas for simple problems.
SE designed themselves into this mess by making LD a complicated ability to fix, and the playerbase aint helping by having myriad ideas to fix it.

But attacking other people just because? They aren't DRK mains??? My guy.

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

I find it odd that WARs didnt get Thrill of Battle updated to be their on demand CD instead of Raw Intuition. (Also to help bring their original flavor of higher HP back)

Back on point, people forget DRKs LD was nerfed, DRKs lost the ability to increase a healers healing amount by 20%, which means DRKs only needed 80% of their max HP healed. Now its 100%.
Convalescence
And even then, ppl still complained when it was an 80%.

IMO either DRK needs a more effective self healing thats not used up from keeping DPS maintained (like equilibrium/thrill/N.flash/Aurora), lowered healing threshold requirement (like needing only 50/60/70/80% of max HP healed), or passive healing potency from others. (Such as +10/20/30/40/50% healed for more.) The rest of the ability can still function the same way.


(In reality, the HP sacrificing invuln should have been given to DRK, this way the temp HP shield works well in conjunction, due to server tick. WAR should have gotten the LD equivalent, which their self healing works well with. And GNB should have then been passed the Holmgang equivalent)

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While it isn't my place to say about GNB, I feel that instead of Holmgang equivalent GNB can use Hallow Ground equivalent. Like 8 secs Hallow Ground or something.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

cutting out all the rest of your lengthy post because...

bruh. chill. yes, it's annoying and aggravating DRK is seemingly always getting shafted. but look at the whole picture.
DRK's always been clunky in this middle-child-syndrome of the tanks. SE clearly ran out of ideas to design DRK for 5.0 that would draw more players to it, so they just made a kit nigh identical to WAR's. Now it "functions fine," even at the cost of it's identity being tied entirely to one skill that's good, and one skill that's bad.

Everyone has an opinion on how DRK can and should be fixed. there is NO UNIFIED CONSENSUS on fixing LD, let alone the rest of DRK's kit.
WAR's had specific ideas for simple problems.
SE designed themselves into this mess by making LD a complicated ability to fix, and the playerbase aint helping by having myriad ideas to fix it.

But attacking other people just because? They aren't DRK mains??? My guy.

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THERE IS UNIFIED CONSENSUS on fixing LD. DRK and HEALER AGREED that it used too much healing resources. Upon realising this, SE can take action and work to reduce the resource required. Please don't make it sound like DEV say it when you and the other are the one who pretend it's their word and not your. Having myriad ideas doesn't always mean it is bad you only need to choose the one that's most suitable and it is counter your argument the more different ideas can work.

and No it isn't because they aren't DRK main I merely point out that it isn't what it seem when someone have DRK as a main class profile support war instead of DRK. You can't count it as DRK isn't having unified opinion.

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Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

DRK needs nothing. Dark mind is amazing in raids as a lot of aoes and tank busters are magic in general, Ramuh specifically shines in this regard, E7s, and E8s to mitigate damage during prog.

TBN is busted. It's literally the best personal CD, as Raw intuition is complete GARBAGE compared to Nascent flash. It's just shake it off fodder.

DRK's damage is not packed into 10s windows where you are heavily punished for messing them up or not having complete and total uptime.... drks' damage is spread evenly, with Shadow, BW windows every 60s, Delirium every 90s, Edge that can be moved for raid buff windows whenever you want.... and so forth.

Warrior is stuck on a 90s cycle. that's it. 90s cycles SUCK in savage and ultimate. Don't believe me? Play a job with a 90s skill and TELL ME it's feeling good when those are coming up.

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1) DRK needs something done with Living Dead. DRK could do with a 4th GCD combo so it isn't 123 the entire fight.
2) RI is SiO fodder yes, and Nascent is good, sure. But TBN being the strongest single target shield means bupkis if you use it and it doesn't break. (had this argument before that it's uSeR eRrOr so many times, idc.)
3) You literally contradicted yourself here. DRK's damage IS baked into a 10s window, it's just not as good as IR. As well, BW is still awkward to time to get all 5 hits for the full 50 blood, whereas Infuriate is instant 50 gauge, so there's no chance of missing out and only getting 40 resource.
4) What do you think DRK does? 123 123 123 oh it's delirium time BS BS BS BS BS 123 123 123. Does DRK have oGCDs to weave inbetween? Sure! But other than that, it's almost the same loop as WAR.

EDIT::

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

THERE IS UNIFIED CONSENSUS on fixing LD. DRK and HEALER AGREED that it used too much healing resources. Upon realising this, SE can take action and work to reduce the resource required. Please don't make it sound like DEV say it when you and the other are the one who pretend it's their word and not your.

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Okay. I'll solve this miscommunication for you.

SE: How do we fix LD, players?
1: ADD CONVA EFFECT
2: DONT MAKE IT AUTO KILL YOU
3: CHANGE % OF HEALING REQUIRED
4: CHANGE WHAT THE EFFECT DOES

Look up my post history about all the things I've said about DRK since 4.0 if you so want. But my point still stands that there's too many ideas for how to fix LD. The ONLY CONSENSUS IS THAT IT SUCKS and even THAT is still lambasted by some people from within the tank community, vocal minority that they may be.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

Okay. I'll solve this miscommunication for you.

SE: How do we fix LD, players?
1: ADD CONVA EFFECT
2: DONT MAKE IT AUTO KILL YOU
3: CHANGE % OF HEALING REQUIRED
4: CHANGE WHAT THE EFFECT DOES

Look up my post history about all the things I've said about DRK since 4.0 if you so want. But my point still stands that there's too many ideas for how to fix LD. The ONLY CONSENSUS IS THAT IT SUCKS and even THAT is still lambasted by some people from within the tank community, vocal minority that they may be.

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AND WHY ARE YOU TRY TO SAY THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CHOOSE ONE OF THOSE?

I just really want a Living Dead rework.
The move was always bad, but it's a flat out unacceptable state in SHB.

TBN being my favorite CD in the game doesn't make up for how utterly awful Living Dead is.

Everything else I could wait on, but 2 charges for Abyssal Drain and 12 second blood weapon would be nice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

AND WHY ARE YOU TRY TO SAY THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CHOOSE ONE OF THOSE?

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cactuarzzz a small tip, don't let others opinions affect you the way it's doing it, it make you look worse that you really are, i know it's hard and frustrating, trust me i feel the same way some times, DRK behavior is nothing new we have to dealt with it, but using mayus and "yelling" wont help you to make you opinion more valid, better keep the composture and still be able to post your opinion here to get the desirable changes than get banned for a heat moment and regret it forever.

note thats not about your opinion or theirs more than a tip to keep being calm.

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Originally Posted by shao32

cactuarzzz a small tip, don't let others opinions affect you the way it's doing it, it make you look worse that you really are, i know it's hard and frustrating, trust me i feel the same way some times, DRK behavior is nothing new we have to dealt with it, but using mayus and "yelling" wont help you to make you opinion more valid, better keep the composture and still be able to post your opinion here to get the desirable changes than get banned for a heat moment and regret it forever.

note thats not about your opinion or theirs more than a tip to keep being calm.

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Umm thank you for dropping by, shao. I wasn't angry or anything tho. Just wondering did he have trouble seeing the words? so I type it all in cap.

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

Umm thank you for dropping by, shao. I wasn't angry or anything tho. Just wondering did he have trouble seeing the words? so I type it all in cap.

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oh yeah no problem, i just mean it's a forum and it's hard to tell sometimes in what tone ppl say stuff and can be missinterpreted, and for me at least sound like it was like what i said, anyway have a nice day ^^

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Originally Posted by Hierro

Remember back in 3.x when DRK kept getting kicked out of every savage party that had the AST/SCH meta healer comp? Me neither.

Also, TBN is incredibly OP. It was super OP back in SB, it was great as a free 20% HP bubble shield. The fact it was buffed even further was not at all warranted (though entirely welcome). I'm a WAR main, but trust me when I say TBN is super OP!

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LD has always been a pain since forever and asked to be fixed since forever. The DRK kit changes, HP values increasing, and this expansion the math for healing seeming to have changed (req a focus on more healing at less per heal (not a healer main but most guides I read/watched confer that to me)) have all exacerbated the problem with LD. LD is a flawed designed, at best, when compared to the functionality of the other 3 tank ultimates and the rest of DRK’s kit is a poor patch job - TBN included.

Just a quick note, while I am using your quotes, I am not arguing against or at you. I am simply commenting on the topic you are addressing or using what you said as a springboard for my own thoughts.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

1) DRK could do with a 4th GCD combo so it isn't 123 the entire fight.

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I agree that DRK needs something to break up the 1-2-3 combo rotation more, but I disagree about the solution being adding another combo-ender weaponskill. I just don't see what another combo could bring that is meaningful that isn't something that another job already does with one of their combos. Debuffs were removed entirely, so that is a no-go. A buff like say moving Darkside upkeep to said combo just mimicks Storm's Eye on WAR. A DoT is just like PLD's other combo. Trying to rejigger resource gain by splitting it between different combos would likely really mess with the job in a bad way. So really what does that leave us with? Pretty much nothing asides from just trying to shoe-horn another combo-ender in just because.

Instead I think a potentially good direction that DRK could go in to break up the combo rotation monotony is to look at and take some inspiration for how GNB breaks up their standard combo rotation, by providing enough resources frequently so that basically every combo rotation is accompanied by a cartridge spender.
Now I'm not necessarily saying that DRK should get 50 Blood every combo rotation, although that could possibly work if done in tandem with other changes, but I believe that increasing the frequency of Bloodspiller usage would likely be more effective at breaking up the Soul Eater rotation and making the job feel "faster" than having another combo-ender weaponskill.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

1)
2) RI is SiO fodder yes, and Nascent is good, sure. But TBN being the strongest single target shield means bupkis if you use it and it doesn't break. (had this argument before that it's uSeR eRrOr so many times, idc.)

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Oh boy, I've got some thoughts on this topic.

TBN is a great skill and very powerful, but there are discernible caveats that make the argument that it is "hands down the best defensive in the game" questionable. I mean it can be argued as such, but there are counterpoints that too often get ignored. The main being of course the one that you mentioned which is that TBN needs to break or it is a heavy dps loss, which means that it should only be used when it is sure that it will break. This means that there are situations where you will avoid using it entirely where other tank's can still use their short recast defensive abilities for some defensive benefit and no potential drawback. As I have said before there are situations where it can save the tank more HP than the other tank equivalents, there are situations where it will save approximately the same amount and there are situations where it will save less even to the point of saving none since it can't be used.

I also find the argument that gets thrown out "well if you aren't taking enough to pop TBN then you didn't need it" asinine. Sure you may not have "needed" it but by that logic then neither would the other tanks have needed their short recast defensives that they can still use and benefit from. It's quite the double standard.
Then when you think of that argument and combine it with another argument that I see come up, "TBN is so powerful it can sometimes stop you from taking any damage so it is like a Hollowed Ground you can use frequently". For starters if you are using TBN in situations where it is negating all or around all damage, you are either having it not pop and taking a dps loss or you are dancing on a razor's edge and may have gotten lucky but that won't always be the case. That and if you are taking so little damage that TBN negates basically all of it, then according to the first argument I referenced, aren't you taking so little damage that you didn't need it anyways, therefore negating the second argument.
There is no doubt that TBN is a very powerful defensive ability and in harder content where it will break consistently most of or all of the time it's probably the best of the short recast defensives, if you ignore the incredible self-heal potential from NF which will likely be a bit worse in some instances and way better in others. However, some of the arguments leveled against it make no sense when actually scrutinized.

As for the statement they made about Raw Intuition being trash because of how powerful Nascent Flash is, that logic is incredibly flawed. Yes if you look at WAR and only WAR, then RI looks like a waste of an ability since the majority of the time NF will be more beneficial but that is only because of how powerful NF is. Then if you look at the other tank short recast defensives RI is pretty on par with the rest, which would point to NF being the outlier, meaning that RI isn't actually "trash" but that NF is just insanely good.
Honestly in regards to having a weak short recast defensive, GNB probably has the most room to complain, what with HoS's 15% damage reduction (5% less than RI) and 7s duration (only 1s more than RI).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

3) You literally contradicted yourself here. DRK's damage IS baked into a 10s window, it's just not as good as IR. As well, BW is still awkward to time to get all 5 hits for the full 50 blood, whereas Infuriate is instant 50 gauge, so there's no chance of missing out and only getting 40 resource.

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Yeah, I have no idea what they were talking about there either.
DRK's primary burst is 10s long on a 90s recast and is comprised of spamming their hard-hitting resource GCD attack 5 times, virtually exactly the same as WAR. In fact that is one of the most common complaints against Delirium.
Also, like you alluded to, Blood Weapon is very similar in terms of output to Infuriate in that it gives you enough resources for an extra Blood attack and an extra Edge/Flood, while Infuriate instantly gives you enough resources to then use on an upgraded version of your Beast attack. Essentially Blood Weapon is just a buggier (since that 5th attack doesn't always register in the window) version of Infuriate stretched out over 10s instead of being instant. It's also not like it really changes up what you do during those 10s, you are still doing the same rotation, you just get more resources from doing it.

Yes, Living Shadow is somewhat different since it is on a 120s recast, but it is a single button press every two minutes. I mean I like the ability and all, but it isn't some huge divergence in game-play that makes DRK vastly different than WAR. A little different, yes. A lot different, no.

Lastly, Edge does allow DRK to spread out their dps a bit more that WAR, that is true; but you better believe that any remotely competent DRK is trying to squeeze every Edge they can into those 10 seconds under Delirium.

So yeah, DRK most definitely follows the same general 90s cadence that WAR does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

SE: How do we fix LD, players?
1: ADD CONVA EFFECT
2: DONT MAKE IT AUTO KILL YOU
3: CHANGE % OF HEALING REQUIRED
4: CHANGE WHAT THE EFFECT DOES

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While there is variance and a level of disagreement on how to address the problem with Living Dead, I believe that there is fairly unanimous consensus on the foundation of the problem, that a defensive ability shouldn't be able to actively kill you.

As for the suggestions referenced, 1 and 3 are effectively the same and basically just reduce the healing requirement. These suggestions however have a couple of problems with them that to me at least are a deal breaker.
First is that it still leaves in the death penalty which I feel is an unnecessary complication. You are already only reducing damage taken once you hit 1hp and you can still take damage during that time if healed. The healer not having your hp high enough when the ability wears off should be what kills you, not the ability itself and that shouldn't require ridiculous last minute burst healing equal to your entire hp pool.
Second is that reducing the required healing makes cleansing the death effect easier but that is not the only thing that gets cleansed, the invulnerability goes with it. That means that it is also easier for a healer to accidentally cleanse the DRK too early which at best means they get less out of the ability and at worse leads to the DRK's death.

As for 4, the only real different effect that I can recall seeing coming up is replacing death with a weakness state, and that also is not acceptable to me. Why should we accept some arbitrary negative attached to the ability when none of the other do? Are we all suffering from some sort of weird Stockholm syndrome-like affect where we feel like we have to punished by the ability?

To me 2 is really the only option that makes sense. Just simply get rid of the death penalty but keep the aspect of healing to a certain % of total hp dispelling the invuln effect. That way you get the benefit of a ease-of-use cushion at the beginning to hit 1hp, but then the healer has to be somewhat careful about their healing so that they don't accidentally cleanse it. A little wiggle room upfront and a little caution towards the end to balance it out. Best of all, the ability itself won't kill you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

5.3 complete patch note. No DRK adjustment ONLY WAR and a little of GNB.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...5c2da260eae21a

https://i.imgur.com/ot1kHJY.jpg

You're doing nothing but buff WAR since shadowbringers release. You might as well take The Blackest Night and give it to other job and delete my job from the game Mr.Yoshida!

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The biggest change above was the nascent flash party restriction removal - which isn't even a buff. As for the Storm's Eye buff, is doesn't even break balance. These are just MOSTLY qol changes that doesn't hurt your precious Dark in anyway. These threads complaining about qol changes that some players have waited over a year for because they didn't get the changes you want come off pretty bad to say the least. If you want something, just make a thread for it. Why start beef with other players?

I already reported the thread and I hope it gets locked.

I think there is another thread for proposed Dark changes. Go post something constructive there.

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Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

I already reported the thread and I hope it gets locked.

I think there is another thread for proposed Dark changes. Go post something constructive there.

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I hope you're not serious.
Unlike JP forums which do keep topics to singular-ish threads of the same topic, NA would rather have more and more posts addressing the issue, hoping that "more threads is more people wanting more," or something idk.

but actively hoping a dialogue gets silenced because you dont like it? Yes OPs combative tone aint helping their case but that aint to say meaningful things weren't said here.

Instead of trying to silence posts like these either add something meaningful or ignore them. Because while you've waited "over a year" for QoL changes for WAR, GNB's have been waiting as long for the SFX to be reverted from 5.01. DRK's have been waiting since god knows when for the dev team to listen to complaints from the players. 5.0 hasn't stopped those, and as time goes on it just further demonstrates a seeming bias against DRK feedback.

No one has a bias against Dark feedback. There's an annoyance about Dark's dragging Wars into a thread whenever they don't get what they want. Why not just keep it constructive and post what you want instead of starting drama. That's all I'm saying. Keep the forums clean and be constructive. Pretty sure people have been banned for starting drama in the past. I'm not sure if SE is still enforcing it as strictly nowadays though.

QQ about your lack of updates. That's fine. But it's pretty petty to drag other people into a fight because you're unhappy. But you're right of course. I won't be responding to these threads anymore looking to bait a response. I unsubbed for nearly a year because War gameplay was clunky imo. I should just go enjoy the game now that I finally got most of the changes I wanted after more than a year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

I hope you're not serious.
Unlike JP forums which do keep topics to singular-ish threads of the same topic, NA would rather have more and more posts addressing the issue, hoping that "more threads is more people wanting more," or something idk.

but actively hoping a dialogue gets silenced because you dont like it? Yes OPs combative tone aint helping their case but that aint to say meaningful things weren't said here.

Instead of trying to silence posts like these either add something meaningful or ignore them. Because while you've waited "over a year" for QoL changes for WAR, GNB's have been waiting as long for the SFX to be reverted from 5.01. DRK's have been waiting since god knows when for the dev team to listen to complaints from the players. 5.0 hasn't stopped those, and as time goes on it just further demonstrates a seeming bias against DRK feedback.

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Yeah and what has that got to do with Wars is what I'm asking? No one is trying to silence anybody. Anywho. Peace.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

No one has a bias against Dark feedback. There's an annoyance about Dark's dragging Wars into a thread whenever they don't get what they want. Why not just keep it constructive and post what you want instead of starting drama. That's all I'm saying. Keep the forums clean and be constructive. Pretty sure people have been banned for starting drama in the past. I'm not sure if SE is still enforcing it as strictly nowadays though.

QQ about your lack of updates. That's fine. But it's pretty petty to drag other people into a fight because you're unhappy. But you're right of course. I won't be responding to these threads anymore looking to bait a response. I unsubbed for nearly a year because War gameplay was clunky imo. I should just go enjoy the game now that I finally got most of the changes I wanted after more than a year.

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I don’t think it’s unreasonable for SE to get an ear full about a lack of updates to a given class when another class in that role gets updates... they should expect this - this is a paid service. When one class gets updates (and I’m not saying WAR shouldn’t have had these qol adjustments) it’s only natural for mains of a different job in the same role to say “what about my completely reasonable job adjustment that has been overlooked?”... like blood weapon acting like all the other 10 sec abilities... or the LD sucking for years...

Where are these posts when those that aren’t even tank mains come to the defense of LD just to troll??! - it’s indefensible btw. I’m an Omni tank, main DRK, and I rarely can be bothered to post in non-DRK threads... maybe I don’t see it bcs I don’t often read other exclusive gnb, war, pld threads but it sure seems like wars tend to get exactly what they ask for within a reasonable time while DRKs have traditionally been overlooked when their are issues... it’s fairly obvious war is a favorite and it’s treated that way. I don’t want to tear down WARs... I want similar qol adjustments that are easy and seemingly have every reason to take care of like BW... or if SE would directly address the reason for not doing it I’d take that too.

Maybe we are going to end up talking past each other on this one but I take issue with conflating being argumentative for it’s own sake with being passionate about a job that seems to be abandoned for two years at a time...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

No one is trying to silence anybody. Anywho. Peace.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

I already reported the thread and I hope it gets locked.

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...
/10char

Meanwhile... I am loving WAR now! It honestly feels way more satisfying to play then even my Paladin. Paladin for me has become routine and I for one wanted some variety in my tanking areas.

Warrior is simply perfect now, and I believe this is what it should have been from ARR to now. And for fear of backlash I also think DRK is just fine the way it is. I even think WAR having a simple 1-2-3 combo with a 4 once in a while, pales to DRK's many paths that it can take.

Comparing DRK to WAR is like comparing a segway to a stakeboard. They both do the same thing, but operate differently.

Warrior- go on hurt me I can take it, I live for this! Feed the aggression!
Dark knight - go on try it *cast TBN*, I deserve the pain!
Paladin - Mitigate this! I have a counter for everything!
Gunbreaker - Imma kill that thing before it kills me. *Bloodfest*

LOL that one guy who replied to me is so ignorant I can't even bring myself to make a proper response. It'd take too long. Imagine talking down to someone who's used both WAR and DRK to tank all three ultimates, multiple savage tiers worth of knowledge and optimization, and has talked to many hardcore players about DRK, WAR, GNB, and such and to treat them like they are some green boy, wet behind the ears fool who knows nothing.

Y I K E S.

My comment about NF was about how the OP is spewing some ignorance about how WAR was busted by these "buffs" when they are very far from being "Buffs".

I said that Nascent is NOW USEABLE IN SOLO CONTENT AND SITUATIONS WHERE YOU ARE THE LAST ONE ALIVE.

Reference to the CHANGE IN THE CURRENT PATCH. I assumed that everyone would know that this was a change and have knowledge about how the skill worked before.

Good lord people on these forums....

The issue is people focusing on complaining about WAR, as if that is affecting DRK in some way. It doesn't.
DRK's problems are DRK's problems, you need to stop comparing it to WAR otherwise you can't be taken seriously.
Living Dead needs to have a healing buff attached to it full stop. I'd argue it needs to be a 50% boost to healing in order to match the other tanks.

Now as for other changes, it would be good if blood weapon was buffed to have a reduced cooldown, OR, siphon strike increasing the amount of mana regenerated. This would give more resources for DRK to use and speed up its damage gameplay, and wouldnt make TDN punishing to use in the event you make the error of using it on anything besides a tank buster.

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Originally Posted by Leiron

The issue is people focusing on complaining about WAR, as if that is affecting DRK in some way. It doesn't.
DRK's problems are DRK's problems, you need to stop comparing it to WAR otherwise you can't be taken seriously.
Living Dead needs to have a healing buff attached to it full stop. I'd argue it needs to be a 50% boost to healing in order to match the other tanks.

Now as for other changes, it would be good if blood weapon was buffed to have a reduced cooldown, OR, siphon strike increasing the amount of mana regenerated. This would give more resources for DRK to use and speed up its damage gameplay, and wouldnt make TDN punishing to use in the event you make the error of using it on anything besides a tank buster.

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I agree with this. When I do play DRK I don't want TBN to feel pigeon holed as "tank buster block". I have moments when i'm nearly capped on MP and 50 sec left on darkness. I just pop TBN for the added mitigation, so what if it doesn't break. I mitigated some damage for the healer to DPS. I know it's not implied for the healer to "know" this, but I would think if I was on my astro I would see the tank is fine...dps time!

I think DRK imo could benefit from Dark Arts more. It should bring back the same buffs for Souleater, Abyssal, Delirium, Carve and Spit. If i'm capped on MP don't use flood or edge, but use Souleater for a large HP boost. Capped on HP and MP, use with delirium for 20% more dps for 10 seconds. (10% from Darkness and 10% from Dark Arts).

I actually miss Dark Arts, and knowing when to use it correctly for added benefits. This would also make TBN used more besides flood and edge procs, this would just modify the skills without procing. It's kind of the best of both worlds for DRK. Adjust the potency

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

I actually miss Dark Arts, and knowing when to use it correctly for added benefits. This would also make TBN used more besides flood and edge procs, this would just modify the skills without procing. It's kind of the best of both worlds for DRK. Adjust the potency

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Careful with those DARK ARTS controversial opinions DARK ARTS there bud. The DARK ARTS hive mind has DARK ARTS already DARK ARTS said that DARK ARTS dark arts spam was DARK ARTS bad for gameplay.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

Careful with those DARK ARTS controversial opinions DARK ARTS there bud. The DARK ARTS hive mind has DARK ARTS already DARK ARTS said that DARK ARTS dark arts spam was DARK ARTS bad for gameplay.

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Tis DARK ARTS to speak of DARK ARTS. ROFL DARK ARTS!