I think Square Enix's next MMO should be set back in Ivalice.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

I would love to see them create another MMO revolving around Ivalice with the style being FFT/Tree of Savior.

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Agree, where encounters can have a strategic flare to it. I don't mind XIV's "spam dps" focus but this...stuff like this brings out real character
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/Impression...restricted.gif

The problem with strategic battle systems is the amount of balancing required, Tree of savior suffered from easy enemy design at the beginning and repetitive battle encounters; the enemy's AI would have to a more dynamic design.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

I would say that alone puts the idea of a non FF MMO to rest honestly. DQ is easily one of the bigger names SE has, and with how the latest DQ did it still isn’t enough to get them to translate it.

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I dunno man, Persona had a successful worldwide MMO for many years.
That's not a SQEX property, but does show that MMOs based on JRPGs less popular than Final Fantasy can survive and thrive in the competitive MMO market.
SE just has to figure out which branch to go out on if it wants that fruit.
(Also, the main reason DQ doesn't have a lot of interest in the West is primarily self sabotage)

If they ever make another MMO I'd like an entirely new world. All the classics we know and enjoyed, ff7, 8, 9, 10, Ivalice and so on came into existence because they decided to create a new story, characters and world. I like a little fanservice here and there, and FF has plenty of little staples that are nice to see, but it'd be a shame if the future of FF is just reusing past glories.

I honestly feel like XIV leans a little too much on other FF games rather often; the Ivalice raids being the biggest example to date. It's able to at least stand on its own feet when it comes to the MSQ, but I'm still wishing they had more completely original storylines like the Void Ark stuff that expand on established lore/locales.

Xi comparatively borrowed very little from other FFs aside from the staple recurring monsters, spells, summons, etc.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I honestly feel like XIV leans a little too much on other FF games rather often; the Ivalice raids being the biggest example to date. It's able to at least stand on its own feet when it comes to the MSQ, but I'm still wishing they had more completely original storylines like the Void Ark stuff.

Xi comparatively borrowed very little from other FFs aside from the staple recurring monsters, spells, summons, etc.

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1.0 was an attempt to tread new ground (same races from XI tweaked a bit aside) and that didn’t do too well. Regardless of how much better the current writing and directing talent could do something new, the suits at SE might see this “2.0 was a FF theme park and it was successful” as a way of doing things going forward and something to lean on to bring people in. It takes a lot of money to develop things nowadays so big companies are less likely to take what they view as risks compared to 2 decades ago.

It’s working too, my brother and a friend only decided to play FFXIV after the Ivalice raid was added. They both independently were super into that world and have played all the games in the setting including the more obscure ones like Crimson Shroud, Revenant Wings, and Vagrant Story.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I honestly feel like XIV leans a little too much on other FF games rather often

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Xi comparatively borrowed very little from other FFs aside from the staple recurring monsters, spells, summons, etc.

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I agree with you in that 14 leans a little too much on other FF games, but you need to keep in mind that when FF11 came out it was pretty widely critized for "not feeling" like a Final Fantasy game.
14 leaning harder onto the other games and the franchises traditional elements is a pretty direct response to that.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

I dunno man, Persona had a successful worldwide MMO for many years.
That's not a SQEX property, but does show that MMOs based on JRPGs less popular than Final Fantasy can survive and thrive in the competitive MMO market.
SE just has to figure out which branch to go out on if it wants that fruit.
(Also, the main reason DQ doesn't have a lot of interest in the West is primarily self sabotage)

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Correction, Shin Megami Tensei had a successful worldwide MMO for many years. Persona is a sub-series spinoff of the Shin Megami Tensei series, just like the 2 Digital Devil Saga games, the Devil Summoner games, the Devil Survivor games, etc.

Well, I don't think it's a coincidence that WoW and XIV have been doing so well when both make it a point to reference past characters/plot points in their respective franchises. I haven't played WoW in years but my most enthusiastic period of play was from the Vanillla to WOTLK era, because that was the era of the game that aligned with what I enjoyed of Warcraft 3 and wanted to experience in an MMO.

Equally, the Ivalice games are among my favourite JRPG's and XIV leaning heavily on Ivalice is one of the reasons I like it so much. I can appreciate the original content as well as the other references too. Though I don't think XIV would have gripped me as much if it hadn't embraced so much of what made the Ivalice games so great to me.

Honestly I would much prefer a new universe if they made a new FF MMO.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

Lol. That is the wildest take ever. Yes, SJW's and their love for *checks notes* "anti-gravity". Very important. Please, continue sharing such wildly insightful thoughts. Maybe next you'll blame them for Ultimecia's goal of time compression or other feats of dimensional manipulation.

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You do realized that a lot of imported (translated version) Japanese games NA getting the content is "gimped" or "SJW" proofed right?
They are not original any more.
A lot of characters lost their original characteristics compares to their JP version
PSO has to wait until 10 years later to even reach to NA, what a joke

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

If they ever make another MMO I'd like an entirely new world. All the classics we know and enjoyed, ff7, 8, 9, 10, Ivalice and so on came into existence because they decided to create a new story, characters and world. I like a little fanservice here and there, and FF has plenty of little staples that are nice to see, but it'd be a shame if the future of FF is just reusing past glories.

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If they got their writers, like Matsuno and Oda, together, I am sure they could come up with a compelling new world, but even so I'd like to see inspiration taken from Ivalice in terms of how it dealt with political intrigue and the like.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

You do realized that a lot of imported (translated version) Japanese games NA getting the content is "gimped" or "SJW" proofed right?
They are not original any more.
A lot of characters lost their original characteristics compares to their JP version
PSO has to wait until 10 years later to even reach to NA, what a joke

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I'm... not sure where you're getting PSO didn't release because of spooky SJW and their massive power over things. It likely didn't release because, again, they don't see a market for it. Attributing to right wing boogeyman what is more simply corporate greed or shortsightedness is pretty silly, and indicative of a massive inability to accurately perceive reality.

And translated things are different from the original, surprising. Complaining it's not in Japanese is... certainly a take, but pretty silly. Probably someone who complains about dubs over subs.

I would prefer the next game to have its own original setting, again. And I think it would be hard to make an excuse for all of the races of Final Fantasy Online to be in Ivalice. I don't think there have ever been Au Ra, Roegadyn, or Lalafell in Ivalice before, aside from the region in the World of Hydaelyn.

But if they could find an excuse, I wouldn't be terribly against it. I wouldn't want the next Final Fantasy Online to be missing any of its traditional races, though.

i hope the next FF MMO is notthing like FFXIV including the Wow formula, but something unique ant rhe battle system also

i definitely want original setting, and probably a modern fantasy setting like xenoblade chronicles x for example.

have a feeling when cyberpunk come out later, the general tone of video games theme will shift toward modern style (high tech, cyberpunk, futuristic, etc)

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

i hope the next FF MMO is notthing like FFXIV including the Wow formula, but something unique ant rhe battle system also

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True innovation will require a company to take some risks and get it right. The risk is high and the potential loss in profit is probably too great so I don't see that happening for awhile.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

FFXIV including the Wow formula

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I, personally, am very lethargic of the themepark formula. It would be very nice to see a sandbox MMORPG with the polish of Final Fantasy. I supported the idea of Final Fantasy XIV becoming more like EVE Online in the 1.0 days. But was rebuffed by many in the community saying that EVE was too niche.

That I'm still afraid of. That Square Enix would think it too risky, still. But I would love to play something that were as open as EVE, but without the confusing nature of EVE, as something easier for players to understand like Final Fantasy XIV. As well as the great Fantasy aesthetic sense and lorebuilding of Final Fantasy XIV. Or, for that matter, something akin in some ways to the better aspects or features of ArcheAge or Black Desert Online, without the monetization practices of either game or company.

I think that both of those games would be more successful with Final Fantasy XIV's monetization sensibilities, and design sensibilities in general. I think that the genre needs some change, and people are growing tired of the themepark formula. Sandbox games like Minecraft are now very popular. And the MMORPG community has been asking for more sandbox games for a bit of time, now. To the point that some are going out of their way to fund sandbox style online RPGs on Kickstarter.

If nothing else, Final Fantasy hasn't been afraid to reinvent itself over the years. It would be nice to see that desire to innovate in the Online RPG sphere. Faults of Final Fantasy XIV 1.0 aside, that kind of reckless ambition and passion is something that I can respect. 1.0's retainer system, for instance, was a daring attempt at immersion that didn't go over well. But I revere that kind of passion to take chances and do something different. Especially in a genre that has become so standardized, instanced, and unimmersive. I want someone to think outside of the box and try to redefine what it means to be an MMORPG. I wish more people were interested in creating immersive virtual worlds, rather than filling checkboxes of previous successful games.

Personally, my dream game would be for the next Final Fantasy game to be an innovative VRMMORPG that tries to redefine the entire genre, and focused on immersion and creating a believable virtual world before all else. Final Fantasy XI's airship system, and 1.0's planned airship system was a lot more immersive and believable than 2.0+'s airship system.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

I'm... not sure where you're getting PSO didn't release because of spooky SJW and their massive power over things. It likely didn't release because, again, they don't see a market for it. Attributing to right wing boogeyman what is more simply corporate greed or shortsightedness is pretty silly, and indicative of a massive inability to accurately perceive reality.

And translated things are different from the original, surprising. Complaining it's not in Japanese is... certainly a take, but pretty silly. Probably someone who complains about dubs over subs.

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I suggest blocking/ignoring them. The second they threw out that 3 letter abbreviation, they proved they are not willing to partake in honest debate. It's a red flag, and I suggest you heed it and don't even bother, they're not worth your time or energy.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I suggest blocking/ignoring them. The second they threw out that 3 letter abbreviation, they proved they are not willing to partake in honest debate. It's a red flag, and I suggest you heed it and don't even bother, they're not worth your time or energy.

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Oh, I’m just pointing out their nonsense. It’s more a form of comedy than anything that takes serious effort on my end.

It's not the best or most constructive term to use to describe what is going on in the world at present, perhaps, though I'd be baffled if someone were to claim that there hasn't been an active effort to censor quite a bit of things related to games not because they need to be censored but because of some very bitter individuals on social media deliberately going out of their way to petition for things that they dislike to be 'canceled' or censored. So, if we're talking about having discussions in good faith then I'd be very curious to see that particular point addressed.

Censorship is a necessity to a degree, though it is a very fine line as to where that 'degree' stands. Nobody expects FFXIV to, for example, display extremely graphic blood and gore. That wouldn't be a reasonable expectation - but when people start asking for things to be adjusted in case it might 'offend' someone, then that leads to a very slippery slope. Such movements don't typically stop at book-burning and the digital equivalent, after all.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's not the best or most constructive term to use to describe what is going on in the world at present, perhaps, though I'd be baffled if someone were to claim that there hasn't been an active effort to censor quite a bit of things related to games not because they need to be censored but because of some very bitter individuals on social media deliberately going out of their way to petition for things that they dislike to be 'canceled' or censored. So, if we're talking about having discussions in good faith then I'd be very curious to see that particular point addressed.

Censorship is a necessity to a degree, though it is a very fine line as to where that 'degree' stands. Nobody expects FFXIV to, for example, display extremely graphic blood and gore. That wouldn't be a reasonable expectation - but when people start asking for things to be adjusted in case it might 'offend' someone, then that leads to a very slippery slope. Such movements don't typically stop at book-burning and the digital equivalent, after all.

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That’s simply capitalism at work. There is demand, companies respond to it. There isn’t anyone holding a gun to the developers head and telling them to do something. The entire concept of “cancel culture” and “SJW” are just people whining like babies because they can’t act like gross individuals without someone pointing it out. Your actions have consequences, learn to act like a proper adult and you stop running into issues.

Well, I hoped for an engaging discussion but I'm not the sort of guy to support victim blaming. We'll just have to agree to disagree, I suppose.

Not victim blaming nor agreeing to disagree. If you aren’t willing to defend your stance you shouldn’t put it forward. The kind of “censorship” people talk about is not having scantily clad girls, treating that as equivalent of book burning is absurd.

That wasn't what the content of my previous post entailed, but again - I think it is best to agree to disagree. For one thing, I'm a gay guy - so the common counterpoint of claiming that concerns about video-game censorship relate to scantily clad women simply doesn't work on me as it's not at all applicable. Then again, I didn't bring up scantily clad women in the first place so I'm definitely raising an eyebrow at them suddenly being brought up in the context of discussion.

Defending my point would require two things - my previous post to actually be read and for a measure of good faith to be involved in the discussion.

.. How did we get on to this topic?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

That wasn't what the content of my previous post entailed, but again - I think it is best to agree to disagree. For one thing, I'm a gay guy - so the common counterpoint of claiming that concerns about video-game censorship relate to scantily clad women simply doesn't work on me as it's not at all applicable. Then again, I didn't bring up scantily clad women in the first place so I'm definitely raising an eyebrow at them suddenly being brought up in the context of discussion.

Defending my point would require two things - my previous post to actually be read and for a measure of good faith to be involved in the discussion.

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And I'm gay too, irrelevant points are irrelevant. When people bring up "scary SJW and the evil they commit" they almost inevitably are upset about sexist, racist, or otherwise bigoted content being excised. As well I read your point, it isn't radically different from the countless other times that I see people getting defensive over "censorship". Corporations are not victims, but apparently pointing out they have all the power in any relationship is "victim blaming". Sheesh, it's just lauaghable.

I'm also not going to agree to disagree, this isn't a subject like "does chocolate taste good" where agreeing to disagree is a reasonable stance. This, again, is about at the very best a rather absurd misunderstanding of power dynamics going on, how freedom of speech works, and a number of other related subjects. But more realistically is an instance of victim blaming, as most often the people speaking out and encouraging the "censorship" are themselves victims from matters related to it.

SE's next MMO should be Rated M :) so they don't have to hold back on things :3

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

And I'm gay too, irrelevant points are irrelevant. When people bring up "scary SJW and the evil they commit" they almost inevitably are upset about sexist, racist, or otherwise bigoted content being excised. As well I read your point, it isn't radically different from the countless other times that I see people getting defensive over "censorship". Corporations are not victims, but apparently pointing out they have all the power in any relationship is "victim blaming". Sheesh, it's just lauaghable.

I'm also not going to agree to disagree, this isn't a subject like "does chocolate taste good" where agreeing to disagree is a reasonable stance. This, again, is about at the very best a rather absurd misunderstanding of power dynamics going on, how freedom of speech works, and a number of other related subjects. But more realistically is an instance of victim blaming, as most often the people speaking out and encouraging the "censorship" are themselves victims from matters related to it.

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Very alarmed that we're defending SJWs in this age when they destroyed precious gems like The Last of Us 2. Let's not forget that they also tried to destroy FF14 (Alphinaud anyone?) but thankfully Yoshi P kept them at bay as the Japanese do not fall into that trap since their culture is more advanced.

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Originally Posted by EirolOcarrol

I, personally, am very lethargic of the themepark formula. It would be very nice to see a sandbox MMORPG with the polish of Final Fantasy. I supported the idea of Final Fantasy XIV becoming more like EVE Online in the 1.0 days. But was rebuffed by many in the community saying that EVE was too niche.

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I'm pretty sure you can't be "lethargic of" something.

Having said that: I agree with your overall point - theme park MMORPGs are stale; so stale that I believe they are actually the root cause in the decline of the genre. Somewhere along the way, the development teams behind AAA MMORPG titles forgot why people were playing these games: it wasn't to be the hero, it was to live a second life in a world where you could be the hero. Or you could own a shop... or a bar... or you could be a just-passable weaponsmith. The excitement inherent in MMOs is a) being present in a fantastical setting, and b) having all doors open. When a game holds a player's hand, heaping praise onto them at every turn, throwing up roadblocks time and again that prevent exploration, cooperation, creativity, etc., and when it shields the playerbase from even the smallest trace of potential harm (Ul'dah is a fortress city; Ul'dah will never be attacked, and even if it was, it would be in the midst of a highly-scripted, closed event that wouldn't affect anyone loitering semi-AFK in town) it actually undermines the root objective: being part of an alternate, fantasy reality where every day promises a new adventure.

I'm not saying pure sandboxes are the way to go - they get boring, and there is typically too much room for various forms of griefing (everything from the 'I loot your corpse and take every item you own' dead horse, to some jerk erecting a new house in your character's front yard) - but the pure themepark is no less stupid. And please don't tell me that you're playing FFXIV for the awesome story - the story is crap. The story is bad fanfiction-level garbage that occasionally stumbles onto a rare gem of a character, but is otherwise a monotonous series of fetch quests and kill tallies sold to us via olde English-speaking NPC questgivers.

We deserve better than this. Yeah, FFXIV is getting on and obviously isn't the vehicle of the future. But if the sequel is wired the same way? I'm not even downloading a trial.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

True innovation will require a company to take some risks and get it right. The risk is high and the potential loss in profit is probably too great so I don't see that happening for awhile.

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I think there is a lot of stuff they can try, but personally would still like it to be theme-park or at least heavily influenced by those concepts.

I'd love to see them try an open world (if they can also decorate it to their standards), bring back airships and chocobos in a serious way, nice homestead system, even consider perhaps having some old meets new school of jobs such that their job fantasy is heavily present (heavy focus on job fantasy role play and how that might be represented in spells and mechanics, making sure to also do things like WoW has slowfall on mages or scout on warlock because it fits the fantasy and not because it's needed in raid, so like dragoons jumping higher or not taking fall damage, summoners doing pilgrimages to obtain many summons, etc, etc)- if there are balance concerns could even have the 'main' very fantasy played out part of the job for MSQ / casual and then the heavily balanced form for pvp and ultimate/savage. Would also love to see a heavy emphasis on exploration, encouraging and rewarding players to wander everywhere.

Yet I still have no interest to play a game where I've to shout in chat to get a party, give me DF or I'm not even slightly interested. So done with that part of old school content lol, that part of me died in FFXI and early FFXIV 1.0. So I'm sure they could mix up a lot of things, but at the same time I don't really have any interest in hardcore sandbox or anything. I appreciate the QoL and ability to experience most of the game at my own pace that themeparks bring.

I think that when you talk about possible shakeups for the MMO genre you have to keep in mind the very limited time most people have to play games. Coupled with that MMOs naturally are very grindy innately. It's kind of important that people don't saddle a new game with too much. When I hear about what people seem to think we need to do it just doesn't seem terribly realistic to expect a large playerbase for that kind of thing.

The "people don't have time to play" mmo excuse to push for an arcade-like experience should not be taken seriously by game devs. People DO have time, they just don't have time for games like Blade and soul where the gap between fresh new level cap players and players who have been at level cap for 6 months is astronomical; and thus the 2 groups will never get along.

It's not so much about having time or not, it's more about how you handle end game in terms of progression. Grindy f2p players handle it different from p2p games where the game design is created to create a fun situation at end game. It's 2 very different philosophies.

Just want to clear that lie that people don't have time to play games.

How much time are you expecting people to put into an MMO? Bearing in mind other responsibilities like work, chores, so on and so forth. Not even counting other things you want to do for fun. As is, even with a boost, I've had a hard time catching up to XIV to where I'd like to be, and that's cutting a huge swath of things out.

I would LOVE that as the Ivalice Alliance team made some of my favorite games, but honestly I see more of a world system like the original Kingdom Hearts where they can show off other parts of the franchise. I wouldn't mind that either, tbh.