Do u think jobs will get new skills in 6.0

Delete Fluid Aura and put something useful in its place.

We can probably throw out the role action system, in general, then having actions on those jobs if we feel they actually need them, something I feel the system doesn't always achieve. The idea of having consistent 100% mandatory actions makes sense. So like, all healers would still have Esuna for instance, though you can have different names/graphics (kind of like Ascend being the AST version).

Sometimes role actions are actually crowding design space. SMN feels like the only caster that really needs Swiftcast, and even that's mostly for the fast res. For the others, it might be for burst or damage on the move, which is something should be achieved within that job's specific design. I feel like having Triplecast and Enchanted Reprise at an earlier level would help these jobs have damage on the move sooner on, and then it's easier to tune it based on the job it's meant for.

Similarly, we have some generic actions we can reconsider. For example, giving tanks a second charge of their specific 30% DR CD, adjusting the CD as necessary, and taking Rampart out. The idea that ultimately you keep the same amount of resources you have to manage carefully, over less buttons. I appreciate the idea of having different degrees of CD for different uses but keep in mind we also have stuff like Reprisal and our unique soft CDs like Thrill of Battle.

Similarly, I appreciate the idea that mitigation is everyone's thing, though it is worth asking of having Feint and Addle is reeeeeally worth it. BLM and SAM in particular have always had more selfish designs and I love them for it.

I hope we get both new skill and upgraded skills. I hope they change the visual effect in the upgraded skills.

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Originally Posted by Hank_Hotspur

One thing for GNB I wouldn't mind changing is consolidating Jugular Rip, Abdomen Tear, and Eye Gouge into one button, so when you fire off your rotation with Continuation you hit "1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2" instead of "1, 2, 3, 2, 4, 2". That would help cut down on bloat and free up some space for new abilities.

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all of those skills are already on a single button so you do press only 2 buttons when you use that but it should be much harder to actually use like maybe getting a random buff and then you had to press the correct unlit skill before the second move of the combo starts.

Given every expansion has brought a fair degree of job changes thus far, I'd expect more changes in 6.0, both the removal of some existing skills and the addition of new ones. 6.0 would be an outlier if this didn't happen.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

all of those skills are already on a single button so you do press only 2 buttons when you use that but it should be much harder to actually use like maybe getting a random buff and then you had to press the correct unlit skill before the second move of the combo starts.

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I mean Fang, Claw, and Talon, which are currently three separate buttons in PVE.

While I do expect some new skill to add to our cluster of skills we can also expect them to have skill that replace current skills as well like they did with 5.0 where old skills get upgraded into stronger skills.

Without adding NEW buttons (they've stressed they want all jobs to have ~24-27 actions), they have the following options for new stuff:

1) Trait that upgrades the skill to a new animation with higher potency (e.g Jump->High Jump; Stone IV->Glare)
2) Trait that upgrades the skill while under a specific buff or condition (e.g True Thrust upgrades to Raiden Thrust when dealing a correct positional with last hit of DRG combo)
3) Trait that halves consumption or allows for a skill to be used multiple times (e.g. PLD's Divine Magic Mastery trait that halves MP cost for spells allowing them to cast Clemency/Holy Spirit 5x instead of 2x)
4) Remove an old abilitiy to add a new one

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Originally Posted by Videra

True in Stormblood, I've said as much myself. Not so in Heavensward. Stance dancing was an actual thing in HW.

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No, it was not. Tanks simply Provoked off each other to maintain aggro while Quelling Strikes was basically a requirement for raiding. By Creator, Dark Knights had long figured out they didn't even need their Power Slash combo. The only thing different is you had to do an aggro combo on pull, though Shadewalking somewhat negated that. Regardless, stance dancing has never. It only happened early on because players didn't know any better and Savage was significantly harder. But even then, tanks were dropping stance for the vast majority of the fight in Midas.

With all that said, aggro management was never an engaging mechanic because it's entirely binary. You either have it or you fail. If maintaining aggro beyond that—like how second aggro is occasionally a thing—that would make it interesting. But it mostly hasn't been.

Now onto the topic itself. I actually hope they focus more on upgrading existing skills and re-organizing our existing ones. It makes little to no sense Dragoon doesn't get an AoE until level 40; Dark Knight doesn't have its second AoE combo finisher until 72, and etc.

Truth be told I don’t expect it by any means, but I would appreciate being able to describe jobs in a quick but very clear sentence...with each job being clearly different from each other.

Like an example: “PLD is a tank with damage mitigation, light healing and party defenses“ vs “DRK is a tank with vampiric self healing, minor DoTs and debuffs (like blind to increase parry or dodging)”

Like, on paper a PLD’s ability to be a sub tank and shield and heal the main tank sounds awesome...but nowhere has it ever really been a strategy. I mean it was pretty cool to do when low-manning treasure hunts...but it could have been a more important and flavorful mechanic.

Because every player can be every job, I just don’t really see a problem with certain jobs within the same role being better suited to certain content if it allows each to be a little more flavorful.

Mch/DNC/Brd also suffer from this imo. Brd should absolutely be more buff/debuff, Mch more spike and DNC more healing support. IMHO of course.

It'd make sense to take the same approach as PvP and rework many abilities into sharing a single button. That would work very well for combo abilities and it'd leave more space for new abilities to be added in the future.

Every time they add new stuff and remove old stuff... it makes playing stuff synced to level 50 all the more painful.

As a WHM, playing below 60ish feels like a completely different job. Playing WHM below 50 just hurts..

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

We can probably throw out the role action system, in general, then having actions on those jobs if we feel they actually need them, something I feel the system doesn't always achieve. The idea of having consistent 100% mandatory actions makes sense. So like, all healers would still have Esuna for instance, though you can have different names/graphics (kind of like Ascend being the AST version).

Sometimes role actions are actually crowding design space. SMN feels like the only caster that really needs Swiftcast, and even that's mostly for the fast res. For the others, it might be for burst or damage on the move, which is something should be achieved within that job's specific design. I feel like having Triplecast and Enchanted Reprise at an earlier level would help these jobs have damage on the move sooner on, and then it's easier to tune it based on the job it's meant for.

Similarly, we have some generic actions we can reconsider. For example, giving tanks a second charge of their specific 30% DR CD, adjusting the CD as necessary, and taking Rampart out. The idea that ultimately you keep the same amount of resources you have to manage carefully, over less buttons. I appreciate the idea of having different degrees of CD for different uses but keep in mind we also have stuff like Reprisal and our unique soft CDs like Thrill of Battle.

Similarly, I appreciate the idea that mitigation is everyone's thing, though it is worth asking of having Feint and Addle is reeeeeally worth it. BLM and SAM in particular have always had more selfish designs and I love them for it.

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This was how the system worked before Stormblood, then they realized it didn't make sense to have multiple jobs have different skills that do the same thing, also it possibly used up memory to keep three different versions of Esuna. So when they eliminated the cross role system, they created role skills. They aren't meant to be skills, at this point, that you pick and choose from, but rather skills that are viable tools for all jobs in that role.

As for some of the skills you've pointed out you think are worthless.... trust me they have places to be used, usually in higher end raiding. Swiftcast was something I had to use on Red Mage to keep DPS up if I had to move for more than the cooldown on my GCD following a dualcast, and feint/addle are used to mitigate party-wide damage to take the stress off the healers.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

As for some of the skills you've pointed out you think are worthless.... trust me they have places to be used, usually in higher end raiding. Swiftcast was something I had to use on Red Mage to keep DPS up if I had to move for more than the cooldown on my GCD following a dualcast, and feint/addle are used to mitigate party-wide damage to take the stress off the healers.

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Nowhere in my post did I say those actions were worthless to use as a player. My post instead criticize their worth in design space.

Of course Swiftcast is used for damage up time, but caster jobs already have damage up time actions like Triplecast or Enchanted Reprise, and they should tune those actions and make them available earlier. If damage up time, tune the actions these jobs already have to be better for those jobs.

Again, I am not saying Feint and Addle are not worth using. I am asking if they are worth existing for their benefit of engagement created, for a button you should press every minute and a half. Of course you should use it, but just because you have it and you should use it, that doesn't justify the action's existence. Like the 5% damage buff Cleric Stance they had before they put the action out of its misery: you should use it, but that doesn't mean it was a good button to have existing.

new skills for sure but i wish they just give direct upgrades to current skills to most of the jobs and focus on mayor mechanics upgrades and reworks on the ones that need it the most like tanks and healers on special DRK, WAR, SCH, AST and certain DPS like MNK and BRD.

I'd appreciate giving new buttons or Ranged Phys and NIN (and returning Selene's kit to SCH and Rook autoturret)

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

There was button bloat but they were just the skills were the ones that may as well have not existed because you set them and forgot them like Ninja/Monk Stances, or skills that may as well have not existed for how useless they were like Featherfoot/Haymaker/One-Ilm Punch. The problem was they also wiped out skills that weren't bloat like Touch of Death and Phlebotomize, and most of the "bloat" they removed going into Shadowbringers really weren't or they were making a change they should have made in Stormblood where they were making Gauges a thing.

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Most of the DoTs were removed due to all the DoTs and debuffs ARR and HW put on bosses. Since pretty much everyone had at least 1 DoT and 1 debuff it was often impossible to see if your own DoTs/Debuffs were up in Alliance content and on A and S rank Hunts.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

Every time they add new stuff and remove old stuff... it makes playing stuff synced to level 50 all the more painful.

As a WHM, playing below 60ish feels like a completely different job. Playing WHM below 50 just hurts..

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This is one reason I hope instead of adding new buttons, they spend more time re-scaling existing abilities and simply upgrade them later. A big reason I all but ignore half the roulettes nowadays is I hate being synced to 50 or even 60 on some jobs.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Most of the DoTs were removed due to all the DoTs and debuffs ARR and HW put on bosses. Since pretty much everyone had at least 1 DoT and 1 debuff it was often impossible to see if your own DoTs/Debuffs were up in Alliance content and on A and S rank Hunts.

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To be blunt. Who cares? It wasn't like seeing your DoT mattered in that content, especially hunts. Those get zerged into oblivion. Frankly, I think it had more to do with more casual players not maintaining said DoTs so the devs wanted to make things more straight forward.

I should clarify on some things. For jobs that have enough buttons (BLM, mainly) they should just focus on traits instead of addingmore, for those that don't (MCH, BRD etc) they should add a few more, to elaborate on some thoughs.

1. Healers should get some DPS tools back, Aero III, and Stella mainly
2. Selene should have a distinct skillset from Eos again, With Dawn staying the same to avoid bias, Dusk being a counterpart that would also be ueable regardless of form and the other Fey skills being fairy dependent and thus share buttons and keybinds
3. MCH should get Rook Autoturret back as an AoE turret, also upgradeabe to a mech
4. SNM trance and unlocked abilities should share buttons with Dreadwyrm being procced into Firebird when the pre-reqs are met, and the same applying to future trances. At the very lead have the Demi Enkindle and other Trance related buttons be shared.
5. RDM could stand to benefit from 2more spells and some more melee tools
6. BRD and DNC should get a few more buttons whether they be utility or otherwise
7. EDIT: one last thing but apply the PVP combo changes to PVE

I'm not sure how or why this is even a question. If a new expansion is coming out, that means a raise in level and ilvl. There's no way they're gonna put in a expansion and NOT raise the level cap (like they have in EVERY expansion??). This isn't XI where the gear lasts forever (but the level stays the same). Probably just gonna be more bloat of skills, removal of old skills, and then screw up the jobs by nerfing the ones that weren't necessary, and buffing the jobs that don't make any sense whatsoever. Also not fixing healers and tanks like every expansion too. That is probably all 100% gonna happen. I don't actually believe anyone on that dev team plays any of their jobs at all, period. If they do, they're playing as casually as possible (maybe logging in once a month)

They really need to look at lvl 50 content and the abilities we have at that level because as new expansions come out it only makes healing and tanking that content worse because you dont have QoL skills.

For example DRK doesnt have a AOE combo until mid 70s. PLD doesnt have a gap closer until mid 70s.

The healing changes have made healing anything under lvl 60 a complete chore due to the skills available.

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Originally Posted by Derio

They really need to look at lvl 50 content and the abilities we have at that level because as new expansions come out it only makes healing and tanking that content worse because you dont have QoL skills.

For example DRK doesnt have a AOE combo until mid 70s. PLD doesnt have a gap closer until mid 70s.

The healing changes have made healing anything under lvl 60 a complete chore due to the skills available.

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You dont need your full aoe combo at level 50 though. Even with big pulls. Yes, it helps with the return of mp of course, but a few quick aoe's and you have all the hate needed (as long as you're properly geared). Since the update of enmity, it doesn't seem to be much a problem at those levels with the singular aoe. The gap closer for PLD and WAR definitely need a change though, personally

There are so many interesting things they could do, many jobs still have useless skills that serve any purpose. They should first replace those such as fluid aura for white mage. Second should be upgrading old skills with new ones. In some cases jobs need a complete rework such as monk, the least played one right now really needs love. I think scholar and astro will need a lot of new stuff and more dps skills to become interesting again. I can see red mage getting a lot of changes as well, specially on his aoe rotation. Warrior definitely needs some love now cause it went from most popular to least played tank. I also hope they rework delirium and blood weapon on DRK maybe even fusing both or something giving it back his old attack speed buff. Jobs like SAM, GNB, PAL, DRG, NIN, BLM, WHM will most likely get a very little number of new stuff, cause they are already very solid.

Based upon the rest of the market trend and assuming they prune consistently to match the level increase, you could actually end up with even less to press as it were. Thats the unfortunate result of a rigid progression system, that decides it needs to bloat smash backwards. They used the same excuse in other mmo's and compared to the prior depth, what it was replaced with was almost laughable. It makes lower content almost 'require' a skip pot - or die of boredom.

With them wanting to enhance the low end of the game, its feasible to assume that there will be a re-balancing of when you are awarded certain abilities. This gives them the added advantage of needing to add less to the skill pool at the high end by better distributing across the lower. Unfortunately that mentality of keeping it 'dumbed down' doesn't lend well to instances like Monk, where they will likely yet again only marginally bother to address rework concerns in favour of wanting to wait out the effects of any skill reshuffle.

Any major balance change, has to be viewed in the scope of all jobs and instances in which they will be applied. Considering the lack of challenge in 95% of the game and the people still complaining even then, as a reference point, its unlikely you'll get much addition - without further removal; or just a lack of movement all together. So I wouldn't get your hopes up. The more they add at this stage, the more they are going to go in circles chasing their own tails. Certainly you can expect something for the new level bracket but the question you should really ask is;''at what cost''.

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Originally Posted by Derio

They really need to look at lvl 50 content and the abilities we have at that level because as new expansions come out it only makes healing and tanking that content worse because you dont have QoL skills.

For example DRK doesnt have a AOE combo until mid 70s. PLD doesnt have a gap closer until mid 70s.

The healing changes have made healing anything under lvl 60 a complete chore due to the skills available.

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Yeah they definitely need to normalize the levels at which kits start coming together.

Every job with an AOE combo should have it by 50 (Dark Knight, Ninja, Dragoon), every gauge should have it's AOE and single target gauge dumps before level 70, and no major quality of life skills should be in the 70-80 range unless there's an equivalent down low.

I do hope Jobs get with 6.0 a final complete endgame overhaul with the goal to

- fix the issues of healers and tanks being too similar in gameplay design due to too stiff combat design that doesn't react flexible enough on the group composition to make it possible for healers n tanks to be very differen't, because if they are too different without flexible encounter rescaling balance in background, then you risk that certain healer or tank jobs can't handle every situation, meaning that you might get kicked, if you don't play the right job...
Thats a no go, but is total boring, when two of 3 job typs are way too samey, just only because of game design n balance reasons, when all that needs to be looked at, that the enemy balance should be more focured around the tank/healer composition. That potencies, health ect pp should vary stronger, based on which types of tanks n healers you have, because then and only then is it possible for the devs to change the gameplay between the healer n tank jobs more drastically, add more depth to those roles and so on

- to redesign neccessary jobs to fix their completely weird and not well thought out designs, to create either neccessary space for correct missing jobs, like Green Mage, like Time Mage, like Rogue/Gambler, like Necromancer, or to fix in general the designs, to make them more fun and interesting, or simply more fitting to the job term/lore, like Monk, like Machinist, like Bard, like Astrologist

- add more depth in regard of character progression based on new skills naturally up to Lvl 99, new tales as also upgraded skills n tales, but also implementing ways to make the jobs via extended progression mechanics more interesting, like
- Master Jobs, final Job Tiers that add new Job Mechanics and improve previous ones
- Secondary Weapons, enabling jobs to use different Weapon Types or basically the same weapon, as in different Combat Styles like Offensivd, Defensive, Supportive, giving different effects to weapon skills or talents
- reworking the complete Materia System for Endgame Content to make Materia moree interesting, useful and fun, because under the current design its just braindead dumbed down boring garbage, sorry but it is like that nothing but just lame stat numbers that could in theory diredtly get merged to the gear stats and just remove materia slots, cause the game is anyways balanced around slotted gear stats, so we wouldn't miss anything, if se would remove materia slots n simply nerge their stats to the gear's base stats.

By the end of this should have all Jobs like 40-48 Skills, Job Skills should get completely removed, their effects should get integrated into job based individual skills, this will help inmaking jobs feel more differently, instead of feeling like being the same, due to using skills with the exact same names and effects. 48 Skills would be on PS4 exactly 3 full Skill Bars a 16 Skills each to switch back n forth to that can be displayed from maximum like 8 skillbar sets we can have. Some may use them naturally for items or emotes as well too.
40-48 Skills for each class is I think an optimal number, because it makes sure you have enough skills to use, while waiting on others to reload, making it better to rotate through them, without having too wait on something.
It makes jobs more interesting by giving them eventually mutipld different attack patterns due do enough skills for that to come up with various builds of skill rotations

To come to an end, FF14's job and combat as like progression systems n mechanics still have alot of unused potential, and i'd love to see FF14 getting closer to using all this potentil, once we reach with the game its ztrue end game state, when leves reach their zenite with 99 and Ilvl 999, so that the devs can put their focus then fully on class balance around what is there, instead of constantly adding every addon a new lvl cap, new skills ect.._

But by the time we get there, i guee it takes more time, than 6.0, I guess maybe we can get to this point first at 7.0, but I wish so much we could have this already with 6.0, because then 7.0 could get fully focused around story n gameplay features n less around Jobs

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

To be blunt. Who cares? It wasn't like seeing your DoT mattered in that content, especially hunts. Those get zerged into oblivion.

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Now with cross world visiting they do, but on smaller servers zerging wasn't quite as effective. World Boss fates, S rank hunts and Alliance Raids were very difficult for Bards, Summoners, Monks, Dragoons, Ninjas and Scholars during ARR and HW. In many cases dps checks were failed because people could not see debuffs, dots and even buffs because of the display limit.

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Frankly, I think it had more to do with more casual players not maintaining said DoTs so the devs wanted to make things more straight forward.

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The fact that DoT/Debuff/buff display limits caused problems was one the stated reason that the number of DoTs was culled in StB. You could not maintain your DoTs/reapply your Dots properly if you couldn't even tell if they were on there. It was actually possible for a full party to nearly hit the display limit on its own.

The resistance down Debuffs on the other hand were culled due to forcing compositions.

For summoner I'm really happy with how they play and would just like more visual changes. For example change it so instead of casting bio or miasma I temporarily summon a leviathan and shiva egi to place dots on the foe and then disappear. Could really be done to pretty much all the summoner spells. Even just changing ruin so that it cycled through summoning various egis to shoot something at the target would go a long ways to making summoners feel more like summoners.

Also would love to see more demi summons added to the cycle. again it doesn't have to be functionally different just visually. I like the current summoner gameplay just would like to lean more into the true summoner theme visually.

I would prefer if they just give us more traits that upgrade the skills from what they are currently at, rather than give us more buttons to try and fit on the bars.

Almost done maxing all dps at 80 (missing 3 that are in the 70s) and I have to say getting new skills is my 2nd favorite thing about the game so I hope they keep 'em coming.

Button bloat can easily be solved by merging skills like Nin's assassinate and dream within a dream to appear in the same button after it gets combo'd. Another good example from the game is Summoner's Phoenix changing abilities.

Also there are some classes like Monk that have way less skills than others.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

To be blunt. Who cares? It wasn't like seeing your DoT mattered in that content, especially hunts. Those get zerged into oblivion. Frankly, I think it had more to do with more casual players not maintaining said DoTs so the devs wanted to make things more straight forward.

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When ARR & HW's SMN did 0 damage on each Fester if their DOTs weren't on the boss and fester was one of their strongest attacks, and the DoTs themselves made up a considerable amount of damage, it kinda mattered quite a bit. You get one too many SMNs in an alliance raid and suddenly bosses are dying slower than usual due to festers being whiffed, DoTs not being optimally re-applied. Or worse, you can't even apply them because the boss hit its debuff limit.

Like, imagine if just randomly, one of your strongest OGCD attacks on any other job suddenly did 0 damage because "oh, too many people hit the boss at the same time." It would get pretty annoying. It was especially egregious in ARR where SMN had nothing but Ruin/Ruin 2 outside its DoTs and the only direct damaging aetherflow move WAS Fester (correction: energy drain was still around, but did was less potency), so being unable to actually use them meant that your rotation consisted of Ruin x infinity. I actually started going BLM in The Crystal tower raids BECAUSE I was getting annoyed at trying to play SMN in there.

Just because the dps checks in those alliance raids were basically non-existant didn't mean there weren't issues that were impacting people's fun of playing the jobs they like that relied on DoTs. There's a reason that issue got a lot of traction on the forums back in the day.

If you want my two cents on this one, I think some DPS jobs will have at least one skill cut from rotation, Healers are going to go through another revision since the healing at end game is sort of turning into "use OGCDs to heal and GCDs to do damage", with the preferred end game healers not really changing all that much. They keep axing dps skills from Scholar, but Scholar is still king of the Savage run with Whm being the Queen.

Tanking is probably about where it should be. Gunbreaker is a bit button heavy and Warrior feels watered down. Paladin and Dark Knight feel like they got stuck in the middle with Dark Knight being like "a more interesting warrior", and Paladin not really feeling like paladin. The spell combo they added just doesn't jive with me and I can't say I liked the evolution of paladin from ARR => HW => SB => SB2. Clemency feels like it belongs, dps spells don't really feel like they belong, and the new AOE melee combo was needed.

I guess I have a beef with the whimsy in paladins spell attacks. Ifrit from E6S has a satisfying sense of impact when he comes down on meteor strike, and that is the kind of smiting that paladin needs with some kind of capstone charge up ability that combines their melee strike with divine might.

Guess they will implement a single button progression combo like on PVP, that way they can increase the number of skills but keep the buttons to be pressed manegable.

Usually jobs have 2 combo variations, damage plus or buff/debuff, those usually require 1 button to start and 2 paths of 2 more skills, 5 total for 2 combos, so cut it to 2 button slots would actually help not having to look at your hotbar constantly.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

Nah. I'd straight up quit if they implemented that into PvE. I know a ton of people who would do the same. Because of how FFXIV's buffer works, that change would also make it impossible to buffer the shared button GCD under a more poor connection as well.

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how different is that to the proc and dotted highligh we already have to combos nowdays? it has to give the server a message to notify your button pressed and gives a response so it highlights the next possible skill on combo.

Doing the same on a single button would not be different, also we already have PVE skills that change on circunstances (like SAM finisher, NIN naruto jutsus, DNC steps etc)

Poor connetions could maybe benefit from it so combo don't drop, as it would buffer the same button if the package protocol they use gets screwed when connection is poor and you start just doing same attack as it does not register next combo action, if is not that way it works then the problem is the same with or without single button combos.

Also, would benefit low level players as the combos are not 3 step ones, only 1 or 2 steps, would not have to rethink where to put all the buttons as the combo increase on level, and then would make room for a 4 step combo or a finisher skill on next level cap increase without bloat

Welp they could even rehaul the gcd and make the finisher skill more potent depending on combo step count as today and maybe up to 4 and finish delay gcd, so the rotations could be more flexible as how many "auto combo" skills to use before finish and use the increased (1 or 2 secs at most) of finisher to use more ogcd skills

getting repetitives combos into a single button is not as they would not add more stuff so you can still have to manage multiple buttons for more rotation variety.

Ima blow a fuse if Neo-Machinist remains the same ,one-button-wonder, inconsequential glorified roDot simulator

And I feel some jobs need some more tools Like Bard, or revamps like Monk, Tanks and Healers