WAR needs love

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

I dont understand the clunkyness argument for nascent flash anyway, its not like warriors have loads of off globals they need to use and its also not like targetting someone else is particularly hard.

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I want you to change into warrior and try to execute this: any GCD > Infuriate > nascent flash > inner chaos
You will not do it without clipping.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

I want you to change into warrior and try to execute this: any GCD > Infuriate > nascent flash > inner chaos
You will not do it without clipping.

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I do that and trained to do that ever back since Sigmascape with Cover. It is possible without clipping, but without macros it requires a fair bit of practice. Me having background from FPS games so having naturally trained accuracy with a pointer helped a lot though.

Humbly speaking, I don't wish anyone having to go through this just to utliize WAR's best HP recovery tool.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

I want you to change into warrior and try to execute this: any GCD > Infuriate > nascent flash > inner chaos
You will not do it without clipping.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nplw...ature=youtu.be

okay, heres my attempt with basically no practice and way too high skillspeed. Pretty sure theres basically no clipping there, whats your point exactly?

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

BUTTTT when i'm in a dungeon or MT a raid it is so much more beneficial to pop Raw Intuition. Outside of AOE pulls it's pretty much meh. If I'm off tank then yeah it's great, but won't save me in a dire need moment if I have to target someone low on HP that's in range.

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Nope, that's completely wrong. In pretty much every situation you'll be able to heal more HP with Nascent than you'll mitigate with Raw Intuition.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...21/PJinvls.png

You're not taking a 150k+ tankbuster every 25s to outweigh an average 28k healing. Properly using NF lets you go a long time without needing heals from a healer.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nplw...ature=youtu.be

okay, heres my attempt with basically no practice and way too high skillspeed. Pretty sure theres basically no clipping there, whats your point exactly?

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Now do it mid rotation in an actual savage fight lul. /sarcasm
To say it is without practice would be underpresenting your initial experience with the game and controls, but the average player wanting to improve will likely stumble at exactly that hurdle, particularly in the way you did it on controller.

Because of such complications players opt to macro it, which comes with the basic clunk that macros provide by not letting you queue an action. None of this is taking into account if they wanted to use it for lifesteal or targetted mitigation, yet they have to jump through the same hurdle regardless of player intention.

NF confuses me, do I use it on a party member to heal them even if I'm at full health or do I use it when me and them need health?

Plus does how much dmg I do while it's on give more health to me or party member?

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Originally Posted by VictorTheed

NF confuses me, do I use it on a party member to heal them even if I'm at full health or do I use it when me and them need health?

Plus does how much dmg I do while it's on give more health to me or party member?

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Just use it whenever. The only rule you should follow, which isn't that hard to follow, is to always NF with Upheaval. This means you're not exactly using NF on cooldown, but close to it since NF is on a 25 sec CD and Upheaval's at a 30 second CD.

You can also use NF paired with infuriate and IC for healing after tank busters, but chances are your healers were going to intervene there anyways.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

Just use it whenever. The only rule you should follow, which isn't that hard to follow, is to always NF with Upheaval. This means you're not exactly using NF on cooldown, but close to it since NF is on a 25 sec CD and Upheaval's at a 30 second CD.

You can also use NF paired with infuriate and IC for healing after tank busters, but chances are your healers were going to intervene there anyways.

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Ty for the tips hierro, that'll help me out.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

I want you to change into warrior and try to execute this: any GCD > Infuriate > nascent flash > inner chaos
You will not do it without clipping.

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And ty nedkel for solving for me what ic meant, I wasn't aware it meant inner chaos till I read your post, whether u knew it or not, u typing out the words inner chaos helped me to understand the tips hierro gave me more clearly.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

I want you to change into warrior and try to execute this: any GCD > Infuriate > nascent flash > inner chaos
You will not do it without clipping.

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If it's gonna clipped from doubleweave, you can just GCD> Infuriate> GCD> Nascent flash> Inner chaos.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nplw...ature=youtu.be

okay, heres my attempt with basically no practice and way too high skillspeed. Pretty sure theres basically no clipping there, whats your point exactly?

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You almost clipped here, its still pretty good reflex however if you put anymore sks you are going to clip it all the time, especially during middle of the heat in raids.
In Stormblood not clipping AD and other oGCD skill on DRK wasnt hard on a dummy either, but when it came to fight in raid, the clipping becomes way more annoying since you have to move and pay attention to other things.
Its also annoying to use for several other reasons, like for example when someone you want to heal is somehow out of range or when second tank or healer is bitting the ground.

In my opinion nascent flash should grant us 4 stacks for each skill use that could heal us, instead of 6 seconds and just leave those 6 seconds on 10% reduction for the second target, that would be way better. There is no reason it cant be better designed, am i right? :p

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Originally Posted by LunaChild

If it's gonna clipped from doubleweave, you can just GCD> Infuriate> GCD> Nascent flash> Inner chaos.

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Yes, but what if you also have to turn on deffensive CD in the middle of that? This skill could have been done nicer.

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Originally Posted by VictorTheed

And ty nedkel for solving for me what ic meant, I wasn't aware it meant inner chaos till I read your post, whether u knew it or not, u typing out the words inner chaos helped me to understand the tips hierro gave me more clearly.

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lol you are welcome :p

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

You clipped here minimally like 0.1 second or less, its not as bad, but anymore sks and you are going to clip it all the time, especially during middle of the heat in raids.
In Stormblood not clipping AD and other oGCD skill on DRK wasnt hard on a dummy either, but when it came to fight in raid, the clipping becomes way more annoying since you have to move and pay attention to other things.
Its also annoying to use for several other reasons, like for example when someone you want to heal is somehow out of range.

In my opinion nascent flash should grant us 4 stacks for each skill use that could heal us, instead of 6 seconds, that would be way better.

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I'm gonna be real, that little clipping is a non issue and anyone worrying about it is overeacting, you can get like 95th percentile in this game with genuinely aweful clipping like triple weaves. Also if anything im likely to put that clipping on my connection more than on the game, sometimes and especially in housing areas I can't double weave on my gnb without some noticable clip, (and that war clip was hardly noticiable)
I mained drk in SB, abyssal was a gcd then not an ogcd, and you could very comfortably double weave on drk even with the improved attack speed of blood weapon because there was so little animation lock on dark arts that DA+CnS could be weaved with no clipping even under blood weapon, provided your connection wasnt poor and you werent running meme speed (I miss you meme speed, i really do, sub 2s gcd on a tank was great).

I'm sure the skill could be much better, but as it stands i would still deem it hardly an issue, Warrior doesnt have an abundance of double weaves anyway so as another user said, you could just use infuriate then nascent a gcd later, (or deal with the 0.1s clip).

You can also just stock the Chaos earlier instead of double weaving it.

Regarding Nascent Flash specifically, the only thing I would change for it is traiting Raw Intuition with it, letting you either self cast RI, or targeting an ally grants the effect of NF to the two of you, as normal, but this would be in the scenario when the Warrior doesn't have a button count that fits on two hands.

Maybe make it like DRG's Dragon Sight that if you don't target any party member, you only granted buff on your side.
But if the change remove the ability to heal you and party simultaneously, I will be sad.

NF is basically an example of the problem with tank design and balance in general. It functions and it's technically fine and balanced, but it's not really that fun to use and a little tedious. Tanks are designed to function in endgame in a balanced manner, they are not designed to feel like powerful juggernauts with engaging smooth gameplay, unlike dps classes.

War just has no soul to it. It has IR and all those traits for big crits and ends up with the lowest dps and besides that, does what every other tank does. It's not exciting at all.

WAR can only perform satisfactorily in MT.
But since DRK is the most active in MT, there is no need for WAR.
ST has the best PLD, so the other tanks will have to give up their seats.
Now PLD has a monopoly on ST, and the other tanks are competing for MT.
Unless the ST problem is solved, the adoption rate of WAR with inferior MT performance will remain the lowest.
WAR is the weakest in the tank, so I want to improve it.

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Originally Posted by Gyukaku

WAR can only perform satisfactorily in MT.
But since DRK is the most active in MT, there is no need for WAR.
ST has the best PLD, so the other tanks will have to give up their seats.
Now PLD has a monopoly on ST, and the other tanks are competing for MT.
Unless the ST problem is solved, the adoption rate of WAR with inferior MT performance will remain the lowest.
WAR is the weakest in the tank, so I want to improve it.

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I guess GNB just stinks, eh?

On the subject of WAR: It performs as well as DRK. DRK works great as a tank, but WAR affords the healers more DPS because NF, ToB, and Equilibrium all give out fairly consistent ways to self-heal without requiring a healer's GCD. That is to say, WAR's DPS isn't just the damage it brings on its own, but the damage it allows healers as well.

Now, I would argue DRK is capable of some healing via shielding from TBN, but it's nowhere near as forgiving or potent as the healing done with WAR. To optimize TBN, you would have to use it frequently enough to the point you're risking having the bubble not pop, but that can be avoided with practice and rote memorization. But again, that's still not as good as what WAR brings to the table while requiring a higher skill level to achieve.

As for mitigation itself, let's think on the following: Old school defiance, shield oath, and grit were mathematical equivalents. One gave 25% more HP, while the others reduced damage by 20%. So, mathematically speaking, TBN and RI are eHP equivalents. However, NF is better than RI when damage is non-lethal, so there's a logical basis for saying it beats out TBN. Granted, the argument is obviously more nuanced, TBN and NF both interact and synergize with other cooldowns in their own way, and benefits to supplementing the other tank.

Point being, there's good enough reason to bring WAR as MT.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

I'm gonna be real, that little clipping is a non issue and anyone worrying about it is overeacting, you can get like 95th percentile in this game with genuinely aweful clipping like triple weaves. Also if anything im likely to put that clipping on my connection more than on the game, sometimes and especially in housing areas I can't double weave on my gnb without some noticable clip, (and that war clip was hardly noticiable)
I mained drk in SB, abyssal was a gcd then not an ogcd, and you could very comfortably double weave on drk even with the improved attack speed of blood weapon because there was so little animation lock on dark arts that DA+CnS could be weaved with no clipping even under blood weapon, provided your connection wasnt poor and you werent running meme speed (I miss you meme speed, i really do, sub 2s gcd on a tank was great).

I'm sure the skill could be much better, but as it stands i would still deem it hardly an issue, Warrior doesnt have an abundance of double weaves anyway so as another user said, you could just use infuriate then nascent a gcd later, (or deal with the 0.1s clip).

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Well even if it clips a little it does not make that much difference.
Still its pretty annoying to use on that low cooldown, they just should allow us to use it on ourselves like TBN and that would be it.

"WaRrIoR Is FiNe"

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...gregate=amount

if you wanna do damage, just play ANY healer lol

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Originally Posted by Anuri

"WaRrIoR Is FiNe"

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...gregate=amount

if you wanna do damage, just play ANY healer lol

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Don't act like this is a WAR issue. Look at that, 2/3 healers beat out ALL tanks.

Now, as far as TANKS are concerned, in relationship to one another, WAR is fine. But tanks in general, ARE NOT fine. Learn the difference dude.

Replace warrior with dark knight and it would still hold true. But it's a warrior thread, isn't it?

Warrior is the least played tank class despite being there from day one. It can't be the rotation because "every tank has the same boring 1,2,3 rota" as many people stated before.

I'm not smart enough to know the difference, as you so eloquently put it. Help me out a bit. Why are only 2% warrior in the top 50 raid kills? These guilds seem to do it wrong too, because "WAR is fine in relationship to one another".

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Originally Posted by Anuri

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No, Heirro is right. WAR is fine compared to its tank brethren.

Just looking at the "played" numbers doesn't help. In fact, we could construe the number of GNB parses as GNB being the 2nd worst/least enjoyable tank. Yet, the most recent poll from reddit and also recent forum thread GNB is one of the most liked job of all FF14 ShB jobs right now.
GNB also having the highest representation of all tanks for speed kills says it's favored.

As Heirro said:

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Originally Posted by Hierro

But tanks in general, ARE NOT fine.

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Also, WAR losing the most unique design mechanics, aestetics, and -last, but not least- dps from SB to ShB has hurt those "WAR mains". (I am using quotation mark on purpose bc it's mostly people jump off of WAR who enjoyed being the highest dps tank.)

I would've also rather enjoyed enhanced tank dynamics on every other tank instead of getting cuts on WAR identity, but here we are.

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

No, Heirro is right. WAR is fine compared to its tank brethren.

Just looking at the "played" numbers doesn't help. In fact, we could construe the number of GNB parses as GNB being the 2nd worst/least enjoyable tank. Yet, the most recent poll from reddit and also recent forum thread GNB is one of the most liked job of all FF14 ShB jobs right now.
GNB also having the highest representation of all tanks for speed kills says it's favored.

As Heirro said:


Also, WAR losing the most unique design mechanics, aestetics, and -last, but not least- dps from SB to ShB has hurt those "WAR mains". (I am using quotation mark on purpose bc it's mostly people jump off of WAR who enjoyed being the highest dps tank.)

I would've also rather enjoyed enhanced tank dynamics on every other tank instead of getting cuts on WAR identity, but here we are.

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Mmm, I would put a pin in the GNB clear/played argument with TEA basically alienating GNB from a spot in most groups. GNB has the worst personal mitigation of tanks... and TEA you need personal mitigation as a tank in that fight (one of the few fights that require high mitigation for both tanks).
Other than that, GNB is the 'hardest' tank to play with optimization on fights from a rotation standpoint (PLD has to adjust thier rotations per fight so I balance the two out there) leading to more players going towards the 'casual' tanks of WAR/DRK or PLD with even unoptimized does well in most fights.
The biggest reason though is that 'ease of use' personally I feel as I have seen a surge of new tanks this expansion, but a mass migration of veteran tanks at the same time unhappy with where Tanks are in general from ShB. So the skill median of tanks has indeed dropped with more new tanks having little idea what they are doing even on the easy tanks (seriously I had a WAR PUG in 5S tout how they would MT and they were hot stuff... I was parsing and didn't say a word but was sitting about 3k DPS higher than the 'hot stuff' Tank).

my main complaint on the WAR front is that DRK was basically made into a better-feeling clone of it, with the same core rotation (all the way down to infuriate and inner release) and a million ogcds to weave pretty freely (gutting the original class in the process), while WAR got no changes except a small three-hit heal for you and a mandatory ally and a new animation for fell cleave periodically.

it's certainly still fun and playable (and my go-to for soloing content with it's selfheals (minus nascent flash since that doesn't work solo)), just kinda neglected?

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

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Funny enough, even with the "least" mitigation GNB is still in the top parses of TEA for speed runs. My guess as to why DRK/PLD is so common there is PLDs stong party mitigation, HG, and DRK TBN -which is ridiculously strong there, it's no joke- that make it fairly easy to mitigate most damage, instead of optimizing every single incoming damage -which only a handful of people even think about. (Dark Mind is also insane, ~half of all tank busters are magical, and all raid-wides are magical, too.)

On point of increase of tank population: 'ease of use' bears a wide range of meaning here, I would like to know what you exactly mean by that.
Not only are the (dps) rotations rather dull and simple as well as aggro management becoming a joke, but mitigation is also risible. As long as a tank sits at max HP, a simple CD (like Sheltron or HoS) is enough for tank busters. This puts a heavy burden on healers, but the game doesn't really give you feedback about your mitigation skills. The tank mastery makes tanking imo far too easy. I remember that I actually had to create a cooldown rotation map, so I could optimize my dps, I had no other choice or we wouldn't hit dps check. Today's tanks can't optimize dps by mapping their cooldowns, yet this influx of tanks blame it on healers when they die or hit enrage. (my own story: I recently went E7s as healer, WAR was MT'ing. They used never used any Rampart, Vengeance nor Nascent Flash. Only 4 Raw Intuitions, which 2 of them + 1 Thrill for Shake It Off. Equilibrium also only when they invul'ed the shared tank buster. In short: they used actual "real self-mitigation" only twice the whole fight of 11 min with a freaking add phase for an astounding duration of 12s. My tank heart was f*cking crying. How can you even play tank without actually "playing tank"?!)

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

Funny enough, even with the "least" mitigation GNB is still in the top parses of TEA for speed runs. My guess as to why DRK/PLD is so common there is PLDs stong party mitigation, HG, and DRK TBN -which is ridiculously strong there, it's no joke- that make it fairly easy to mitigate most damage, instead of optimizing every single incoming damage -which only a handful of people even think about. (Dark Mind is also insane, ~half of all tank busters are magical, and all raid-wides are magical, too.)

On point of increase of tank population: 'ease of use' bears a wide range of meaning here, I would like to know what you exactly mean by that.
Not only are the (dps) rotations rather dull and simple as well as aggro management becoming a joke, but mitigation is also risible. As long as a tank sits at max HP, a simple CD (like Sheltron or HoS) is enough for tank busters. This puts a heavy burden on healers, but the game doesn't really give you feedback about your mitigation skills. The tank mastery makes tanking imo far too easy. I remember that I actually had to create a cooldown rotation map, so I could optimize my dps, I had no other choice or we wouldn't hit dps check. Today's tanks can't optimize dps by mapping their cooldowns, yet this influx of tanks blame it on healers when they die or hit enrage. (my own story: I recently went E7s as healer, WAR was MT'ing. They used never used any Rampart, Vengeance nor Nascent Flash. Only 4 Raw Intuitions, which 2 of them + 1 Thrill for Shake It Off. Equilibrium also only when they invul'ed the shared tank buster. In short: they used actual "real self-mitigation" only twice the whole fight of 11 min with a freaking add phase for an astounding duration of 12s. My tank heart was f*cking crying. How can you even play tank without actually "playing tank"?!)

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I agree all tank rotations are far too easy, but I think the DRK/WAR rotations are outliers of being exceptionally easy.

At least DRK (while indeed far too simple) has some oGcd's. War's entire ST dps toolkit fits on 9 buttons. It's basically the "baby's first tank" of the four.

Am I the only one disappointed they removed the 1% crit passive per 10 beast guage too?

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

So the skill median of tanks has indeed dropped with more new tanks having little idea what they are doing even on the easy tanks

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Both tanks and healers.

It's baffling seeing tanks 3-4k below what they should be when they have 9 buttons to manage and 3-4 busters the entire fight, or healers at 80 spamming the wrong GcD heals doing a quarter their potential damage when they only have 2 buttons to handle. Tank and healer roles have both attracted the inexperienced player, who click with it because it feels miles easier than dps, then defend playing poorly with "I'm not a dps, I'm meant to hold agro/heal", but they don't even do that well because they were never interested in learning to play well in the first place.

They ripped tank/healer away from the veterans and gave them to those players.

Job has like the lowest button count of all jobs. The whole Fell Cleave a million times is whack. Job needs a complete overhaul.

Oh, and bring back Butcher's Block.

When WAR crit became part of the attacks over criting them, it made me lose the will of playing it... my WHM do more damage with Afflatus than my WAR with Nascent flash...

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

No, Heirro is right. WAR is fine compared to its tank brethren.

Just looking at the "played" numbers doesn't help. In fact, we could construe the number of GNB parses as GNB being the 2nd worst/least enjoyable tank. Yet, the most recent poll from reddit and also recent forum thread GNB is one of the most liked job of all FF14 ShB jobs right now.
GNB also having the highest representation of all tanks for speed kills says it's favored.

As Heirro said:


Also, WAR losing the most unique design mechanics, aestetics, and -last, but not least- dps from SB to ShB has hurt those "WAR mains". (I am using quotation mark on purpose bc it's mostly people jump off of WAR who enjoyed being the highest dps tank.)

I would've also rather enjoyed enhanced tank dynamics on every other tank instead of getting cuts on WAR identity, but here we are.

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Says Hierro is right and that warrior is fine, then goes off about GNB. What are you arguing? This doesn't explain how WAR is fine.

Warrior is the least favored. Warrior is not popular on social media.

Warrior lost all its utility, its unique features, its party synergy, and its damage (and deliverance, a strong part of its identity). It didn't get anything new and lost almost everything.

Warrior wastes 3 gcds just to do an aoe rotation. You waste 6 gcds to do 1 beast skill in aoe, then 4gcds (6, 4, 6). It only refreshes 10s, but you lose nearly 3s just applying it, making 4 to 6gcds just to have a comfortable time to execute IR. This is atrocious in dungeons. If its 2 targets, war uses fell cleave. Wow, even in aoe, they can't escape FC. So war has to wait 4/6 gcds to do 1 Beast ability, but has no variance unless its 3 enemies? When it used to be decimate?

Holmgang duration is based on the target. If you apply it and the enemy dies 1s later, that holmgang doesn't get the rest 7s duration.

WAR doesn't bring enough damage, utility, nor aesthetic to justify it being "fine". And if you want to talk about war mains, hi. We said its not fine.

And warrior needs to be top dps. It even still has the punishment as if it is (if you wanna balance). A lot of wars stopped being war because removing its damage is wrong, especially with what yoshida exclusively stated. They also don't play it in protest.

Also, I already had this type of thread made in AUGUST 2019, why are you splitting? We should all be in the same thread. Sigh

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Originally Posted by millktea

Says Hierro is right and that warrior is fine, then goes off about GNB. What are you arguing? This doesn't explain how WAR is fine.

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You clearly didn't read (as in understand) what I wrote if that is your answer to this.

Anuri was going on about WAR being the least played tank via logs-statistics, thus it's the least favored tank? IF we were to follow that reason GNB would be 2nd least fav tank, but polls and forum posts say otherwise. DRK also recieves bad reviews as being the "war clone", yet it's the 2nd most play tank. The amount of "played" does not define whether a job is fine/favored or not.
"I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself" -W. Churchill

Warrior is fine COMPARED to its tank brethren. It plays just as well as the other tanks.
It's the current iteration of warrior that is NOT FINE, compared to its previous iterations. Yet, this is exactly what Hierro said. Tanks in general are in need of a rework/-design. It isn't a simple "just WAR" thing, it affects all tanks. Not equally, but it's wrong to say every tank is fine except WAR.
If anything WAR was already bad designed before ShB hit. But hey, it had the highest dps, so it was fine then? That's just hypocritical.

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

If anything WAR was already bad designed before ShB hit. But hey, it had the highest dps, so it was fine then? That's just hypocritical.

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That's the part that always got me.

Everyone: "Warrior is great, don't change anything."
SE: Doesn't change anything.
Everyone: Surprised Pikachu

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Originally Posted by millktea

Warrior lost all its utility, its unique features, its party synergy, and its damage (and deliverance, a strong part of its identity). It didn't get anything new and lost almost everything.

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WHAT utility has WAR lost? Raid-wide mitigation? Nah, Shake it Off has been buffed twice in SHB. Self healing? Nope, Equilibrium is the same and just because you don't like Nascent Flash, doesn't change that it's both more accessible than IB/SS were due to not requiring stance, but also synergizes with WAR's burst instead of gimping it. Personal mitigation? Nuh-uh, Vengeance is the same, Thrill got buffed and Intuition is boring, but more powerful. Invulnerability? Holmgang's cd is longer, but it's also lost all of its old downsides, including the short duration.

WAR actually gained utility, both due to making Shake way easier to use and stronger, as well as gaining an off-tank support skill, something they never had before.

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Originally Posted by millktea

And warrior needs to be top dps.

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Why? WAR has the best personal mitigation/costless self-sustain next to DRK and does slightly more dps than it in most fights - makes sense to me. They both do only marginally worse than PLD/GNB anyways, both of which have inferior personal defenses.

You don't like that at top performance WAR does less than healers? So do all tanks - it's not a WAR issue, that's a general tank/healer damage issue if anything.

WAR is in a shit state gameplay-wise, yes, but DRK is just as bad and I would argue GNB is too. The tank design in SHB is just overall an uninspired, dumbed down pile of garbage, but making up balance issues that aren't there won't help it - if anything it just drowns out the legitimate, well thought-out feedback and confuses devs into - probably - homogenizing everything even further because "things are still not balanced".

Also being "the least played within role" doesn't mean it's terrible - something always has to be the lowest. Hell, it doesn't even mean it's the worst by a small margin, since AST is currently the least played healer, despite being the best in terms of both rDPS and healing output. Clear rates alone are a rather stupid metric to go by, both in terms of balance and enjoyment, which is probably why SE has such a hard time getting things right from only looking at them. Not saying they don't matter at all mind you, but it's merely one of many variables that should be considered.

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

Not only are the (dps) rotations rather dull and simple as well as aggro management becoming a joke, but mitigation is also risible. As long as a tank sits at max HP, a simple CD (like Sheltron or HoS) is enough for tank busters. This puts a heavy burden on healers, but the game doesn't really give you feedback about your mitigation skills. The tank mastery makes tanking imo far too easy. I remember that I actually had to create a cooldown rotation map, so I could optimize my dps, I had no other choice or we wouldn't hit dps check. Today's tanks can't optimize dps by mapping their cooldowns, yet this influx of tanks blame it on healers when they die or hit enrage.

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That is a fight design factor rather than tank mastery being to good. Tank Busters currently are spread out just enough that you only need to rotate between Rampart and the job's 30% to cover them and tank swaps are caused by mechanics rather than by tank cooldowns. Factor in that every tank now has a 20% cooldown with a <=30s recast and you don't need to plan for tank busters as you will always have your short cooldown (Shell/RI/HoS/TBN).