You don't get me, I have the feeling you believe I'm upset because I don't have a mansion. I have the gils, I can do the crafts, I even have some furnitures and items ready.Quote:
Originally Posted by EaMett
What are the fact : I've bought two mansions and lost them (I was absolutly aware of it, thought if was recent and Y-P said we would not lose house).
I've managed to purchase one again, coming back in the game after a break. But it was individual and I've decided to give up my mansion.
Why? I've thought it was unfair for FCs (and somehow useless without the workshop). And to craft everything again... I'm so-so.
I could have bought one the last addition of wards... But I've anyway delayed my subscribtion (my second -third?- hiatus).
How can we consider PVP or achievment when :
- we can lose our house
- our crafts
- item sold in mogstation can both be stolen or lost
- individual and FCs are in competition
I've purposely decided to give up having a mansion. Maybe I will try again. I'm unsure.
But for now, my position is currently simple : I've decided to refuse to support the current system and advocating for, at least, an extended instancied system, why not a duplex with some kind of greenhouse. They don't need to change everything for that.
And... I can't support the system for another reason, it's called... glitchs. A few are interesting, some other are a total mess that shouldn't even exist (a mezzanine we can't even use as it should without glitchs? wut).
Housing
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03-20-2020, 06:43 AMEldevern
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03-20-2020, 07:28 AMCirque-itThis entire post has nothing new to your previous point. You already expressed why you think Housing is Pvp, reiterating a previous point with the same argument does not validitate incorrect perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by EaMett
But since you borrowed a page from my book, I'll borrow one from yours and reiterate my ethical standpoint on this matter. Housing is not intended as a PvP environment, nor does it it share any of PvP's characteristics. just because you think it does, doesnt mean the rest of the community does. The forum is intended for people to give feedback on things they would like to see changed and you have no place dropping in on this thread and taking up reading space just because you happen to like the system the way it is.
"It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person"
Clearly you think i'm an idiot(and that my experience as a semi-profesional raider in MMO's is for 15 years is for naught), and you know what! you're entitled to your own opinion
I think you're the dumbest person in existence.... so lets just part ways and leave each other(and eachothers threads) be. I'm sure there are plenty of other threads you could be trolling around -
03-20-2020, 07:43 AMEaMettIt's unfortunate you had to lose your mansion the first time around. That just sucks. I'm no expert in house item salvaging options but I do remember thinking they were lackluster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldevern
Losing your house if inactive makes sense for many reasons. It does create some borderline cases though since technically you can't take a hiatus with a house anymore. The silver lining being that those houses don't go to waste and will make someone's day.
I'm also not sitting here saying that things shouldn't be tweaked/fixed. I'm just saying the housing design isn't flawed in the way people like to make it seem.
On a semi side note I find the housing glitches fascinating and really handy. It allows for extra expression and emulates features that would otherwise take time and effort to implement. It also provides an expertise niche and a sub market for designers where there's a noticeable difference between the skill floor and skill ceiling. I'm a fan. -
03-20-2020, 08:23 AMGulaWatch out now, people are sensitive 'round these parts. Even though I agree with you, insulting others- no matter how deserving, will likely get your posts deleted. Thus invalidating your efforts into making your point. And what a shame that would be, because people looking through the threads will miss key arguments since mods here sweep the whole thing under a rug, furniture included.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirque-it
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03-20-2020, 08:28 AMEaMettListen. I don't know what to say. It's not a matter of opinion, or a matter of what I or the community "thinks". It's a hard fact that housing in ff14 is a competition between players for access to a house. That's the very definition of what a player vs player mechanic is. PvP mechanics aren't only combat, this is a fact. There are many non combat pvp games out there, some asynchronous, some where your actions have no ig impact on your opponent, some with no ranking tables, etc... Likewise PvP rewards come in many forms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirque-it
You can Ad Hominem your way five times around the globe if you want, it won't change anything. You can keep claiming you're right without ever explaining yourself (as you have), it won't change anything and certainly won't help people take you seriously. You have 15 years semi-pro experience? (Whatever a semi pro even means, I'm going to assume unpaid world prog, maybe won a few prizes here and there). Good for you. You know what my experience is? Didn't think so.
I originally made a post on topic discussing the current situation, a bit of the context and an explanation of why some suggestions will just go ignored. You eventually jumped in with the name calling and essentially nothing else but incorrect information you pulled out of nowhere (literally never gave a single explanation).
And at this point I've stopped thinking you were dumb since a lot of this can be found one google search away for the lazy and in gamedesign literature for the more industrious. It takes a lot of willful ignorance to claim otherwise, malevolence even. When you started calling me a troll I regretted engaging with you since I'm pretty sure you're flipping your own behavior onto me and I just wasted my time getting baited. Further justified by your "savage is too hard" post.
Alas, live and learn. -
03-20-2020, 11:37 AMCirque-itLatin huh...Quote:
Originally Posted by EaMett
I dont need to know your game experience to know we differ from opinion, and to that end it's not even relevant either
However... you claim your opinions to be facts. In laymans terms you are arguing that "buying a sofa" or a aquarium fish is a Pvp mechanic...Do you understand how rediculous that sounds?
First of all, I have explained myself in detail, you just don't like my opinion (and I don't like yours)
secondly, neither post is intended as bait. After raiding 5 days a week on hardcore mode in MLG groups, I simple came to the conclussin that the bigger the difference between the casual gamer and the elitist(jerks) the more unhappy the masses become. Its like dance class, if I make the choreography WAY to difficult. I will lose 95% of my students(speaking from experience), whereas Zumba classes are overflowing everywhere.
If you want to appeal to the masses you have to cater to that end. MMO = " massively multiplayer online" it is intended for the masses thus the devs should develope accordingly! But I'm straying off topic, this is the other post(though similar in nature).
back to housing. Lets take into an account the bigger picture, since you speak now of how things are and what the devs want. Isnt the forum designed for people to give feedback on things they would like changed? isn't the general discussion forum the exact place where you're supposed to go to if the devs did something that you believe could be better?
I HATE PvP, but I am a quality of life person. I dont like the fact that the devs are basically forcing me into a (as you so adequately put it) pvp environment even though life-style, housing, literally the couch you rest your head on, is a quality of life principle! You're literally saying, "to be allowed to rest my head in a comfy chair(in a mansion) I need to beat the crap (pvp principle) out of all the other players that want the same thing. If thats what the devs intended, then the devs are messed up!
So instead of coming in here and "wasting your time" preeching about what the devs did in the past, instead lets hear how you can think innovatively and solve this situation to make the pve community (which is a big one)as wel as the pvp community, happy.
There are always a million reasons NOT to change, but it takes courage to make change happen.
Live and learn, stop doing whats easy. -
03-20-2020, 01:03 PMEaMettYou're being unreasonable, it's obviously the action of purchasing a house that is the pvp mechanic (and the mechanic we're discussing in this thread). Not what you do with it after, which is the reward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirque-it
This is much too simplified. You don't simply cater to the masses because of cognitive flow and behavioral game design which you see excerpts of throughout FF14 and many other games. This increases the stickiness (read sustained playthroughs/memberships/etc) of the game. In a nutshell and a really rudimentary way, you need to balance content and gameplay in such a way that players with lower skills or less dedicated time have content that is accessible and easy in order to avoid anxiety all the while teaching/pushing them to get better and providing more difficult content to then avoid boredom. aka: It's a fancy way of saying that tiered content is often a requirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirque-it
In housing this translates as :
- Apartments and FC rooms that everyone can buy. It has a low entry cost, for practical purposes it's unlimited, and it allows you to enjoy the housing experience and rest your head on a couch, albeit a limited one.
- As you get richer, and/or if you have more available time (which is an increase in ability for the purpose of this mechanic) you can move towards purchasing houses. As it stands it will almost always be a small unless you get pretty lucky. You get to enjoy a garden and a bigger house in your neighborhood. This allows you to enjoy the medium house experience. albeit a limited one.
- You know where this is going, you try to upgrade to medium and so on and so forth.
You see this in other parts with tiered difficulty in dungeons that teach you basic marker mechanics > trials > raids > ex trials > savage raids > ultimate fights. It ramps up progressively.
Offer only ultimate level content to new players and everyone would be so anxious they would stop playing. Don't offer ex/savage and ultimate raids and people will eventually get bored and unsubscribe.
In puzzle games it's teaching you tricks before you learn new ones and then combining them. If you started puzzle games with the last level you'd never manage.
Of course you can be capped in your endeavor by your current ability in both scenarios. Those abilities are based off of different criteria, for housing it's mostly time, in PVE dungeons it's a combination of time and skill.
To tie this all in with what I've been saying before. Yes it's a forum for feedback and yes if people want to complain about the availability of the content, they can. But like I said in my previous posts. Arguing for instanced housing is a point that has been around forever now (with no success) and is a hard sell because the main complaint is that some people don't have access to it when that very fact is the whole point of the design in the first place. A design that isn't lazy or working incorrectly (as per the scope) in the first place. They've accounted for quite a few scenarios and they readjust the availability ever so often.
I you want to complain about the actual design it'll take a lot to justify the stance. You would need to demonstrate that it's so tedious to get a house that a significant amount of people leave over it. Or demonstrate that people who get houses aren't happy about the accomplishment and instead are frustrated to the point of ruining the whole experience. (And yes I'm aware placard spamming is super frustrating and needs a change. I 100% agree but that's separate from housing availability.).
Next to that, complaining that housing is hard to get is exactly what they expect to hear from such a design.
As for my input on potential changes, I've made them already. Some in this very thread. The placard spamming is an ugly mechanic and needs to be replaced. It needs to be replaced with a mechanic that favors people spending higher amounts of time while not completely abandoning those that have, for lack of a better word, a social life. The current placard does this already but in such an insufferable way. The easy fix would be to unlock plots for sale every 20 minutes on the hour so people need to camp but don't need to end with carpal tunnel syndrome. It would be nicer if they found something a little more user friendly though: maybe you can roll/random on a house every 20mn and if it unlocks in that time period and you're the highest roll you can claim the plot. No more button mashing and it still favors those with more time.
Changes to the system to avoid empty/unused FC houses from being held hostage by players who literally only log in to maintain the timer sounds like a nice idea but would probably simply be adapted to by said players.
The rest works well. Mansions are very hard to access for individuals but this was a community request. The rest is completely achievable. -
03-20-2020, 05:51 PMEldevernJust one thing : provide us a proof housing is purposely designed by developers as some kind of PVP mechanic (not what you think but what they say).Quote:
Originally Posted by EaMett
From all interviews I can find, Y-P admits there is a problem with housing. One of his main argument to keep the system is to create some kind of neighborood effect... that is totally a mess since housing is opened to individuals. Don't take that as an ad hominem, you are in the game since 2016, I'm in since the beta. I've observed before and after. It has NEVER been lively when it was FCs only, except around big FCs (in number of players) and RP FCs. It has become worst after it has been opened to individuals.
There is nothing to do with some kind of PVP mechanic. Everything show that Y-P had in mind some kind of lively town it is not and has never been.
You talk about achievment. We have the Inn at level 10, the apartment at level 50 and housing... you achieve crafts, msq, gathering and... you finally get a house... where you can lose everything. What kind of achievment is that if you can lose everything, even event items you can never get back except through mogstation?
You talk about "work as intented", it is some kind of cash-shop trick. Nothing to do with achievment or PVP. It is closer from Pay-to-win logic. It is somehow similiar to the TESO system where you can buy a virtual house with real money (but in TESO, at least, from what I know, you will not lose it, thought).
And something you are really mistaken. We are not here to ask "But why?". We don't ask, we don't need some kind of explanation. We say the system is a fail as QoL.
A question comes to my mind... if it is some kind of PVP and you can lose the house... where are the titles that show you succeeded to achieve it? Nowhere in PVP you reach a achievment were there is no record of any kind. PVP : you keep stuff, you keep mounts, you keep titles, they just add new ones. There are titles in FFXIV for many things but not for that?!? Housing is the only thing in the whole game where you can actually lose everything with no records. -
03-20-2020, 08:18 PMCirque-itOkay! we're getting somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by EaMett
If you read somewhere that the devs intended for the game to work in this way ethically (tht the devs intend for you to ram your head against other players for the chance to own a house/mansion) I would like to see that if you have acces to such a link.
Let me explain to you how I interpreted this mechanic from an outside perspective.
When I saw the housing system the first time I thought "Oh wauw cool, you can see eachothers houses, square-enix must be trying to build comminuties of players creating neighbourhoods of social players that can visit each-other like neighbours. thats really cool because it makes the housing system feel real and makes the quality of life aspect more enjoyable".
After looking for over a year, and never seeing a mansion slot open up once (and I play everyday!) I thought "This is starting to feel an aweful lot like pvp.... I should make a post of this on the forum because I'm sure the devs did not intend for this to feel like that".
Now imagine how I felt when I read your post, stating that not only is it supposed to feel like pvp... it basically IS pvp. If I experience it in this way, others do too(i am not so naive as to believe I am unique!)
This is not an attack, I'm just trying to be sure that the devs WANT this to be a PvP experience, as I never in a million years would have assumed it was when I started.
I instruct dancers from day 1 beginners to long term profesionals, oversimplifing things (for the sake of communication) is basically my job. You wherent understanding why you where triggering an insanne amount of frustration, and it felt like you where just protecting the current system(like an elitest jerk whom wants to be the only person who has a mansion). So to make you understand I simplified.
The placard system is by far the most frustrating thing about the housing system. So fixing that would be a start. However you have been around this game since 2016, and I think most people from that time don't realize the FF14 player base has more then doubled since then. The housing supply has not. I still think the idea of an "extra ward" with only medium and large slots would be a great idea (someone else suggested that). You could quadrouple the prices in this ward and it could be a sort of "beverly hills" for ff14 players.
This would fix the shortage of housing (to account for the wave of millions of subscribers that joined in 2019 -like me-). Then either a bidding system like you mention, and perhaps a NPC where you can inscribe yourself so you get notified if a new plot becomes available. These two things I think would make a huge difference.
I'm happy to see you list possible fixes, though I still cant wrap my head around the idea that SE intends housing to be a PvP experience, it just makes no sense to me. I've never even seen a FF14 battleground! I avoid PvP like the plague. -
03-20-2020, 08:42 PMCirque-itThis is more a reply to my other post but I will reply to this one here as wel.Quote:
Originally Posted by EaMett
I do in fact agree with this perspective. And honestly, after raiding so high tier for so long I cant be asked to do the ultimate thing again... What bothers me about the current set-up is that you dont get to truly experience the fight unless you do it in its ultimate form. Eden 8 is a completely different fight on savage then it is on normal.
I feel as a subscriber I should be entitled to "experience"the content. But no I do not have the time to find a static group full-time and dealing with OT that miss the duty abillity time and time again makes me want to smash my head against my keyboard. What I want, is a mode where you experience the same fight as savage, but with much more forgiveness on the mechanics (not instant kills!) You could call this "Savage-practice mode" for lack of a better name.
killing the boss in this way gets you NO loot for the kill. Since you clearly dont deserve the ilvl 500 reward.
It would however provide us with an additional option in the duty-finder, Duty complete for players that cleared the full version of the boss, and duty semi-complete for people who cleared the boss in practice mode. That way even if you have not cleared the boss, you can look for people whom you know for a fact understand the mechanics because they cleared it in a practice mode. (normal is nothing like the real deal and proves nothing) -
03-20-2020, 08:44 PMCirque-itThanks Gula.. I can be a bit harsh with words, I'll try and be more mindful <3Quote:
Originally Posted by Gula
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03-20-2020, 08:52 PMCirque-itI mentioned this too. every fibre in me tells me this is NOT how a dev intends it... I would never EVER design something like housing to be a PvP experience and I cant wrap my head around the guy (if its true) that came up with that... could you imagine that meeting????Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldevern
director - Okay creators, we want new and fresh ideas on how to make FF as engaging as possible, give me your ideas!
person 1 - Create engaging and dynamic storylines that evolve over time as the game progresses and new expansions are released
Director - LOVE IT
person 2 - Create multiple battlegrounds with unique machanics to stimulate pvp
Director - Excellent!
Person 3 - Create multiple difficulties for a plethora of dungeouns/raids/trials to really get the community together and make boss kills
Director - Obviouisly!
person 4 - Create an immense end game experience with glamours, legendary weapons, and housing neighbourhoods
Director cool!
person 5(looking at person 4) - Oh yeah!! and lets turn that housing system into a pvp environment!
Director and person 4 - Wait WHAT!????? -
03-20-2020, 09:06 PMEver_is_the_night
Housing was meant to be competitive from the very first day. The FC with the most gil or the one that would have enough gil by the time the plot had devalued significantly could claim it as theirs. Even though housing prices are nothing but a sad joke nowadays, the competitiveness remained through player transactions.
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03-20-2020, 09:17 PMYellowCrystarium
There are mansions on Spriggan, that server has the highest amount of free plots to date.
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03-20-2020, 09:56 PMEldevernThis is not the questionable part (thought few people in ARR time were complaining about the prices). What is more is the fact that FCs and individuals are in competition. If it is not a design problem, how to explain they are forced to make FCs first when new wards are released. Many weird things, some details show they always chose lesser evil since they should but don't want redesign wards and housing system. We will see how it turns with Ishgard, but I don't make myself illusions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ever_is_the_night
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03-20-2020, 10:12 PMHeyMcFly
I'm currently lvling my crafters so I can make the gil to buy a M plot when/ if Ishgard housing comes. I've been told to wait for a M plot to open but I know if I don't have the gil ready when Ishgard houses open & if I'm not spamming a M plot to relocate my existing small plot? I know I'll most likely not get another chance to grab a M plot due to how stingy people are with it & the lack of M plots that are given.
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03-21-2020, 12:57 AMkaynide
This might be a bit heartless, but I would say restrict the M or L sized houses to FCs only. Then on top of that, have said FCs require a certain number of active members online... both during purchase and regularly in play.
Again nothing crazy, maybe something like 8 online same time to purchase the L, 4 different accounts enter every 45 days or so to negate demolition.
End result makes more effort to have larger FCs if housing is your jam...and should severely negate the 1 person FC housing nonsense. -
03-21-2020, 02:22 AMEaMett
Going to post all my responses in no particular order (don't feel like multi-quoting)
To address one aspect. It's clear that there's a mismatch between what some expect the system to be (QoL) and what it is (competitive). Neither are inherently bad and I'm sure you could write books about the pros an cons of each.
As for proof that the system is PvP, it's in the actual mechanic as described in previous posts. If you want a source that it was intended as such, the devs (I believe yoshi-p himself) have stated that it was, and I'm paraphrasing, "meant to be hard/limited so as to give owning one a sense of accomplishment". I will look for an actual quote but it's been a long time and given how hard it is for me to sometimes find quotes from 2-3 live letters, let alone 4 years ago, I wouldn't hold my hopes up. If anything, other people's comments here and in similar threads will attest to this actually being a thing.
Also lets not mix mechanics with rewards. You can have pvp mechanics with no rewards/titles/etc. You can lose your ranking if you idle, you can lose your house if you idle all the same. It's a real issue that you can outright lose items in the process and this should be addressed but it's an issue entirely different from availability.
Devs have recognized at several points that there was a supply issue. They initially added subdivisions, then Shirogane, then more wards twice. And soon to be Ishgard. There are currently ~5k plots per server for about ~15k active characters for the more populated servers (as per census data). They've always been chasing roughly 1/3rd the active player base of the most active servers with their updates. This has been pretty consistent and intended.
They also acknowledged that the community wanted higher priority housing for FCs and gave them just that during the post Shirogane ward expansions. This is a big reason why mansions are currently really hard to access for individuals (they were always in low supply but this made it extra hard). Again, I reiterate, this was a community request.
When it comes to the question of whether or not wards are lively or fill the desire the devs had of a "neighborhood feel" you really need to scope out your expectations for such a requirement. And try to guess what the dev's own requirements were. There's a huge range here, from wanting it to be a Limsa crowd all the time to wanting to see some people in the ward at all times of the day or maybe only during peak hours, or perhaps just being fine running into your neighbors every now and then. And how do you want this to be across the wards? Does it have to be in all wards? is it ok in only a few?
It's hard to judge how successful the system is without knowing what the initial goals were. Personally I run into most of my neighbors, I'd say once a week or every other week. I have a chat, sometimes I go into content with them. I wouldn't call my ward lively by any measure but it's good enough.
With that said I don't know what their goals were, I don't know what you guys think they should be and my personal experience of it being good is anecdotal at best. -
03-21-2020, 02:52 AMEldevern
It is not some kind of PVP, it is some kind of player versus "system" with some kind of Pay-to-win logic. There's... nothing to do with PVP (to be some kind of PVP, at least, it should be players vs players only and not player vs players vs FC thought the current system doesn't value any kind of merit or skill... just luck with time of connection and RNG.
What I can notice is NA players are focused really much more on rivality and competition, than European players who are more QoL oriented. More I'm reading the forum, more it appears to me. We will never agree, that's cultural as it seems. -
03-21-2020, 03:51 AMEaMettFC's are owned by players and the players go to the plots to purchase them. You as a player are competing against other players to be the fastest to purchase a plot. It's PvP. You're entitled to not like it, but doesn't change it's nature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldevern
And the main component towards your ability to purchase one is time. It has some randomness and some "skill" related but those are both minor.
If purchasing houses when no wards are added, you just need to spend a lot of time on placards, that's all there is to it. Yes there's a RNG component and some people can get lucky/unlucky but overall more time spent = higher chance of getting one.
When wards and new housing areas release it's a measure of time skill and a bit of luck that come into play. People rehearse their movements for hours to leverage all movement abilities from their classes (that they spend hours leveling for those abilities sometimes), jumping from nin to brd etc... They place post-its on their screens to know exactly where to click in order to validate menu choices before they see them (or rehearse controller patterns). They put thought into picking their plots to avoid competition or at least have a backup option that is also fully rehearsed. They decide where they logout to avoid congestion. They stay up all night to make sure they don't get caught up in patch issues and are ready to go on launch. They refresh their launcher non-stop to get in. It's PvP, if you don't go that far you'll lose to those that do. And if you go that far you can still miss out to people who are faster. Simple as that.
Yes you can do all that and then rng error out or get dced and put into a queue but if you're prepared you'll still get access to a plot despite that, even if it isn't what you were originally going for and you're stuck on a small in the goblet. As long as you get your first entry house upgrading is easier on you, from there it's just a waiting game (time). -
03-21-2020, 04:03 AMGulaFree Company size does not dictate the size of the estate. Especially when some people literally don't care and just want the buffs. What you're theorizing isn't heartless, it's nonsensical.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaynide
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03-21-2020, 04:23 AMEldevernFair PVP is one player vs one player, not several versus one. Never mind. We will never agree anyway. Now, it's just trying to have the last words. It's kind of useless talk. You wil no change my opinion, neither I will change yours. Let's stop that.Quote:
Originally Posted by EaMett
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03-21-2020, 07:55 AMCirque-itI am not a fan of this idea. I hate the thought that I cant buy a house just because I dont have control over an FC.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaynide
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03-21-2020, 07:57 AMCirque-itThis has been discussed. Can you provide proof that this is how the devs intend it (as a PvP experience) because for me (and a few others in here) that does not sound logical. IT also took me more then a year to even stumble upon that idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ever_is_the_night
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03-21-2020, 08:06 AMCanada_bangsTo be fair to YP. When he said that they didnt have plans to change it. But things changed and he had to walk that back. People need to understand things are rarely set in stone and these things can and often enough DO change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldevern
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03-21-2020, 08:31 AMCirque-itI like this post. I am going to argue against it but please take it with a grain of salt as I am doing it is intended with respect. I realize that was not always the case but it is nowQuote:
Originally Posted by EaMett
So you mention this
I dont think you realize but I always intended it to be the same way, I just believe these words have been interpreted differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by EaMett
In my scenario (scenario 1), it is designed to reward the players that work their ass off, crafting selling, rouletting, treasure hunting, doing whatever and everything you can to aquire the gil you need to buy a mansion Then once you HAVE the gil, you are (Supposed to be) free to go and buy your mansion. you made 50 million gil! go enjoy the quality of life you earned it cuz making 50 million gil is not easy! (maybe its easier with the inflation of players, but thats another story)
Scenario 2 peope chose a completely different interpretation namely its a RACE to get to 50 million gil as fast as possible, first 3 players get the mansions al the losers who took their time to get to 50 million gil TOO BAD! wait till someone relinquishes their mansion (NEVER happens) and then it's another race to get there first
Scenario 2 is nuts!! (in my opinion!!) I'm not attacking you. I just think for anyone to have that thought process behind something that many people inherantly assume is a QoL mechanic
This freaks me out!Quote:
Originally Posted by EaMett
I've seen it some youtubers as wel. Cool youtubers like Meoni who just do everything and talks about how fun the game is... and veteran final fantasy youtubers that are used to running around like god in a vido game, complaining about the devs making crafting accessable to new players, or the lvl 70 boost mogstation sales. People (elitists) need to understand that there are a lot of people in this game, a lot of them are new (me included) we want to enjoy a lot of the end game, and the game is old!! Change is inherent!
This is why I really did not like you (at first) you sound like an elitist with a mansion that likes to run around showing off and rubbing it in peoples faces. This because elitists like to "interpret" the devs in a way that benefits them and sprout it around like its fact.
If you DO find a letter of a dev stating their philosophy behind their ward system. I would LOVE to read it!! because what you said "meant to be hard/limited so as to give owning one a sense of accomplishment" can very easily be interpreted as scenario 1 (my interpretation) or scenario 2 (the pvp interpretation) And I would really like to know which is correct!!!
I hope you're wrong.... -
03-25-2020, 05:22 PMkaynide
I can accept the disagreement above, but the current business model simply doesn’t allow for most players to own a home. So unless they restrict ownership of the L and M size homes in some way, it is just going to suck for most people.
I mean, it is entirely possible for my account alone to own 9 different houses with shenanigans and loopholes out of the available 2,500 on my server. A server that supposedly has about 5,000 players (it’s a full one).
So, I would hate it personally as our FC of 8 has 3 Ls 2 Ms and 4 Ss would lose houses.. but I can’t really think of any other way other than “omg just add more wards!”
(And who knows, perhaps that is what they are doing with Ishgard) -
03-25-2020, 06:30 PMEldevernI've found a FC who own two full wards... I really don't get why they designed things that way. Did they expect players to be reasonable and fair? Even considering RP it is going too far. They designed wards too fast. People were asking housing and they just designed an extended version of Aion housing (without the auction system).Quote:
Originally Posted by kaynide
Before the release of the first wards, most people were talking about instancied personal islands (more or less what Wildstar created).
The tricky thing is wards are heavy for only one reason (after all the system can handle one single player in Eureka, Squadrons and so, then it is not one player - one instance the problem), the problem is really simple : they need to load all the gardens items.
If they could solve this specific problem, they could probably solve a big part of the availbility matter. And to alleviate the system faster, they could modify the apartements with offering different sizes and adding some kind of greenhouse (the faster and cleaner way). -
03-26-2020, 01:44 AMkaynideTruth be told I would rather they completely erase the housing wards entirely and just do instanced housing.. ideally with larger yard space and/or a higher cap to placement. Basically like how FC private rooms work, but loading an exterior area. No real good way to implement that without hurt feelings though. Again, I personally own 2 houses + FC estate.. I don't wanna give those up...but I would accept it if that's what the Devs decided.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldevern
I mean, even "in game" it doesn't really make sense story-wise not to be able to purchase a house. Yes, it's a game.. but in story every character is supposed to be the hero/savior of the world... quite possibly loaded to the gills with cash...but can't find a house to live in? Talk about NIMBY. The locals afraid of a tax hike if a celebrity moves into the neighborhood? -
03-26-2020, 12:34 PMCazzT
It's been said ad nauseum, but.... Instanced housing. Keep the Wards and/or Neighborhoods, but make the housing itself phased/instanced. This would solve pretty much every problem with housing.
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03-27-2020, 02:09 AMDivinemightsYou are describing the Apartment in which it is an instanced housing by itself except the garden part.Quote:
Originally Posted by CazzT
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03-27-2020, 03:29 AMAvidriaThe apartment is tiny, limited in size, furnishings, and access to gardening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinemights
Really hoping they can come up with a better solution. The current system, to be blunt, kinda sucks. -
03-27-2020, 04:19 AMBig_BapQuote:
Originally Posted by Avidria
- The apartments cost 1/10 of what some small houses used to cost.
- Apartments are permanent, unlike houses.
- The size of the interior is identical to what small houses used to be.
- Regarding furnishing, the ratio is the same as current small houses per floor.
- Regarding gardening, you can still use flowerpots. You're gonna tell me you can't crossbreed and I'm gonna reply that the % of players who's even interested in crossbreeding is abysmally low.
The only thing that "sucks" about this system is how terribly inefficient housing is as a gil sink. -
03-27-2020, 04:33 AMAvidriaQuote:
Originally Posted by Big_Bap
- The apartments are cheap, but they're also smaller than a house, which is my point - larger instanced housing does not exist period
- Previous sizing of smalls doesn't matter +I wasn't aware they were ever smaller than they are), I'm comparing to what exists currently
- My idea of a better solution is a system that allows ALL housing to be permanent, not just tiny apartments
- I'm of the opinion that the amount of furnishings allowable in all houses is too low, but that's more of a side complaint
- And it's true, you can't crossbreed in apartments. I am one of the players interested in crossbreeding. I've spent hours gardening and growing for myself, friends, and fc mates... which is one reason I prefer having a house vs having just an apartment. Doesn't matter what the percentage of people interested in it is, fact is there are people interested, and apartments don't offer that option.
The game needs more gilsinks in general, including and especially outside of housing. But that's also its own issue really. And I say that as someone who's pretty darn poor compared to a lot of people I know. -
03-27-2020, 04:42 AMEldevern
The funny thing is this story about gils sinks. In all games I have played, it is useless... there are always players who are really but really really rich in game currencies, there is always a matter of balance and people find tricks to overcome the difficulty. And the worst, currencies sinks help the RMT business (and it gives reasons for players to use bots).
A game as BDO is going as far as giving players free currencies. -
03-27-2020, 04:50 AMDivinemightsIs it instanced house? Yes it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidria
Beside unable to decorate the garden part, it does has the features provided by a house.
Your friends can also teleport to your apartment, this is same as a house.
Apartment does offer a stable, this is same as a house
Instanced housing is right there but people are in full denial.
People do not want instanced housing and those who are asking for instanced housing are delusional.
They really want a bigger apartment with expanded features
Stop grab on the term "instanced housing" just plain out ask for bigger and improved apartment. -
03-27-2020, 05:15 AMAvidriaI mean... I have? That's literally a thing I have asked for. My point is that current apartments are inferior to actual houses in several ways. They're smaller, they don't have gardening, and they don't allow for any outdoor furnishings. All things that are important to me personally. They're instanced ROOMS not instanced houses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinemights
I mean, I'd prefer like, proper instanced houses, but since it seems SE isn't interested in overhauling their housing system entirely, larger apartments or different types of housing (townhouses, maybe) are things that I think would still be good solutions. Something other than slapping more wards down and calling it a day, unless they somehow magic up the resources for unlimited wards. -
03-27-2020, 07:48 AMPaladinleedsGive us cross-breeding in apartments. Give us a way to allow FCs to access workshops (even without a house). Cross-breeding, no matter how small an amount of people want it (even 0.01%) is still people wanting to access it. I bet you, if you offer crossbreeding in apartments (perhaps via an instanced balcony for outdoor furnishings, potentially even limit it to 10 outdoor furnishings and be half the size of a small garden), that complaints for instanced personal housing would go drastically down. But even if you fix apartments, that still leaves FCs out in the cold. They have zero instanced option for workshops (which is the reason a decent chunk of FCs go for a house).Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinemights
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03-27-2020, 07:56 AMSeraphor
A more realistic option would be to upgrade apartments.
Give us the option of purchasing:
Small Apartment (what they are now)
Duplex Apartment (same as a small house)
Penthouse Apartment (same as a medium house)
They're all instanced, so I don't see why you couldn't have any size apartment you can afford.
A mansion sized apartment would seem unrealistic though, but perhaps they could allow for one of these per building list, just to provide a few extra 'large' options per ward. -
03-27-2020, 11:32 AMCirque-itYou do realize you sound like an elitest waving his mansion around at other less fortunate players right? What is even the point of a comment like this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Bap
This is spot on.. its an MMO, yet les then 0,1% of the gamerbase gets to experience this (working your way up to an L house). I managed to scoop a mansion up for my FC the other day which made me really happy... Would you believe 5 players where on their way to scoop up the same mansion... when they arrived they are started badgering me in anger because I "snaked" their chance to have a mansion to... even for PvP norms (if thats how the devs intend it) its not healthy!Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidria