What would you like to see (differently) in the next Final Fantasy MMO?

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

MHW has its moments especially right now with the new mechanics on the MHW expansion making it easier to cheese fights, but it's one of the more well-polished action combat games out there. The enemies or rather monsters/wyverns are totally not target dummies, especially the endgame monsters. You will be dealt with ruthlessly, especially when they're enraged. Another thing about Monster Hunter is that enemies are pretty complex and challenging. The gameplay involves a lot of enemy movement reading/predicting unlike FFXIV where everything is so scripted, which takes away fights having unexpected surprises. Behemoth in that game is an absolute pain in the butt to fight, even with better gear.

Spellcasting in Dragon's Dogma and BDO are kind of similar, but Dragon's Dogma is slower, while BDO is faster and feels less outdated. Though, I've never seen any other game with so much impact on the magic presentation other than Dragon's Dogma. It also has an MMO that shut down (unfortunately), the casting gimmick is pretty bad but other than that it's the same as the single player game.

Also Dragon's Dogma Online has a class named High Scepter and it's a good take on a spell fencer, and has all of those things you mentioned that a spellcaster would need.

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That's what struck me from what gameplay I've seen of MHW, from a friend - it looks like a highly tactical game. I've seen the Behemoth fight play out and it looked brutal.

I'll give Dragon's Dogma a look. I'm not sure if SE would go with BDO's speed, but it definitely has the right direction for a caster. Generally, I think it makes a sense to turn a lot of spells into instants and reserve effects like brief staggers or slower movement speed for more potent spells (and thus do away with much of a need to turret outside of things like Ley Lines), whilst incorporating a dodge mechanic, teleports etc. for defences. FF14 abstracts a lot of this for its combat design, which is fine in a tab-target MMO, but for an action one it really does need to come out more strongly.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

[LIST][*]No 1.0 garbage spaghetti code.

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Fair point and I agree.

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[*]No half baked Class > Job system that gets abandoned after the first expansion.

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Disagree,
That's one of the things I liked about the original ARR was the starting Class then moving on to a Job. I particularly liked the original SCH and how it worked and the way it combined with Arcanist even though I know the Devs obviously did not...

SMN well that's a mixed bag on both sides of the argument. I do like how it progressed from Arcanist with DoTs and Carbunkle and into the original Trances like Dreadwyrm and Aetherflow stacks the way was into Heavensward.

Not really that entirely enthused with the changes in Stormblood, that is kind of a mixed bag some good, some bad. The Demis obstructed view and caused just as many problems with evading mechanics as they gave in coolness factor which was pointless as you could have just done this with an Ethereal Trance Overlay instead, but the mechanics of how they work was pretty cool.. the Egi rework... well that wasn't half bad.

I also liked Cross Class skills and Subjobs from leveling multiple jobs from ARR. While they varied in effectiveness depending on the cross class skills you picked, they were a very unique addition that I had always loved in FFXI as well.

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[*]Don't tie Duties to MSQ and then have to force Duties to be the ONLY content because you need to fill up the queues so newbies can complete the MSQ. (If you must, do what Astellia Online does and have the MSQ required event be a solo version of the duty)

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That I also don't agree with.

I loved my newbie (as in new to the game entirely) days back when I started and did those dungeons in the MSQ in ARR. It wasn't until the later expansions that they became a nuisance as you were leveled so high that level syncing back to that levels was like putting on handcuffs.

Wait times are solvable with addition of either a Trust or beginning Squadron so they won't be as much of a nuisance to higher level players as the game ages.

BUT... having them attached to the MSQ was a ton of fun and mystery and really sucked me in like I was a part of the story.

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[*]Duties should be more than just Hallway simulators or "One dude in an arena"

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Totally agree with that, a lot of the original ARR dungeons are very like that which is what made them so fun as a newbie. Though... I admit they do need some changes in terms of what the goal of the dungeon is at the beginning. Like... one time the goal is to unlock several doors in a row using mechanics, another time its to get to a chest on the other side of a chasm, basically using ALL of the dungeon in various types of objectives from the beginning. Sometimes mob spam... sometimes multiple boss mobs, etc.

Then it will literally be different each time you go through.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Disagree,
That's one of the things I liked about the original ARR was the starting Class then moving on to a Job. I particularly liked the original SCH and how it worked and the way it combined with Arcanist even though I know the Devs obviously did not...

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Note, that I'm not against Class > Job as a concept.

But the fact that they half-assed it and then completely disregarded it after ARR is where I draw issue.

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That I also don't agree with.

I loved my newbie (as in new to the game entirely) days back when I started and did those dungeons in the MSQ in ARR. It wasn't until the later expansions that they became a nuisance as you were leveled so high that level syncing back to that levels was like putting on handcuffs.

Wait times are solvable with addition of either a Trust or beginning Squadron so they won't be as much of a nuisance to higher level players as the game ages.

BUT... having them attached to the MSQ was a ton of fun and mystery and really sucked me in like I was a part of the story.

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I honestly see too many issues with Duties as MSQ requirements.

Not only because the entire game has as a result, revolved around "Spam DF Roulettes" because they need to ensure that newbies can actually progress in the MSQ in a MSQ driven game.

But also, how absolutely terrible they are for immersion. Where 90% of the "Duty" content the MSQ implies you did it alone. With only a small handful of times where there's a comment or cutscene that suggests or shows you getting a random party of 4-8 people to help you. Due to reasons such as "You're literally the only one in the world who can do this" which also would preclude Trusts as a way to bypass this.

I find that Astellia Online's version of MSQ required duties far better, since when they hype you up as the sole "Chosen One" (An Astellian in their case, Hydaelyn's chosen here) and then you go and do the solo duty, alone, and kick butt it feels way more immersive than having to stop being a badass so you can group up with random people who pop up out of nowhere and then vanish completely once you're done with the duty and enter the cutscene at the end.

With the group version of these duties being unlocked later so you can farm them for your loot if you wish, but not being required for progressing the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

I honestly see too many issues with Duties as MSQ requirements.

Not only because the entire game has as a result, revolved around "Spam DF Roulettes" because they need to ensure that newbies can actually progress in the MSQ in a MSQ driven game.

But also, how absolutely terrible they are for immersion. Where 90% of the "Duty" content the MSQ implies you did it alone. With only a small handful of times where there's a comment or cutscene that suggests or shows you getting a random party of 4-8 people to help you. Due to reasons such as "You're literally the only one in the world who can do this" which also would preclude Trusts as a way to bypass this.

I find that Astellia Online's version of MSQ required duties far better, since when they hype you up as the sole "Chosen One" (An Astellian in their case, Hydaelyn's chosen here) and then you go and do the solo duty, alone, and kick butt it feels way more immersive than having to stop being a badass so you can group up with random people who pop up out of nowhere and then vanish completely once you're done with the duty and enter the cutscene at the end.

With the group version of these duties being unlocked later so you can farm them for your loot if you wish, but not being required for progressing the MSQ.

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I completely agree. Actually I believe they should do this in FFXIV right now, adding a solo option for all older MSQ instances. I feel like it could quite easily be done by just messing with the numbers. It won't have instance gameplay as originally intended, but it will be better than waiting ages for a queue and it would also satisfy all if it's just a voluntary option. They'll perhaps get obliged to do something like this because it will get harder and harder to keep older content relevant with each expansion.

Besides that, I'd honestly love it if literally all instances would have an optional solo equivalent that didn't give any loot/xp/rewards, not just MSQ ones. Immersion being a big factor, but also just the ability to do some content (e.g. that is difficult to get queue for) whenever you want and enjoy the art. They don't have to dedicate resources to introduce new mechanics for solo play for me. If it's an alliance raid for example, just literally take out all mechanics that require the alliances or just make the bosses basically like a mob that still does all the nice (transformation) animations during the fight, but without any mechanics. Just want to be able to enjoy the art first time I play an instance for immersion and at other times when nobody queues for it anymore, even if the combat will be equivalent of fighting a dummy.

You could argue that I might as well just watch a movie at that point, but being engaged in combat makes a big difference imo. I enjoy doing older content right now solo, although wish things wouldn't die as fast

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Originally Posted by Kalise

I find that Astellia Online's version of MSQ required duties far better, since when they hype you up as the sole "Chosen One" (An Astellian in their case, Hydaelyn's chosen here) and then you go and do the solo duty, alone, and kick butt it feels way more immersive than having to stop being a badass so you can group up with random people who pop up out of nowhere and then vanish completely once you're done with the duty and enter the cutscene at the end.

With the group version of these duties being unlocked later so you can farm them for your loot if you wish, but not being required for progressing the MSQ.

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In the end, with such a solo system, they can use the presence of Trusts or similar NPCs as well if they want to reinforce that the boss is particularly powerful, in addition to any other story devices. One thing I do hope they do, from a narrative perspective for a future MMO, is build on their approach with Eden, where it's differences in memory that explain the "savage" mode, so like it boils down to you being bogged down in the heat of battle and forgetting some important details, and you see those play out in the group content with the help of some recording device or similar contraption. Maybe really double down on the mechanical difficulty of some bosses which, for lore reasons, should be particularly powerful, and are thus no longer hampered mechanically by being tied to the MSQ but rather an optional addendum to it, in addition to offering some difficulty options for the solo content. I'd like such an approach.

My thoughts on the next FF MMO.

Return of a number of series staple base mechanics that were literally thrown out as they essentially dumbed the game down to make it more like WoW for the purpose of poaching that game's playerbase that were present in FFXI. Things like elemental and physical damage type resistances/weaknesses/immunities/absorb. This would also bring back caster dps jobs having a wider range of elements to choose from which is one of the things I liked better in FFXI because back then we couldn't just kill a fire elemental by spamming fire spells. It also added some depth to gearing in general as mages could use gear to bolster a specific element and physical jobs had gear options that could change the type of damage they dealt between slashing, blunt, piercing.

Going on to gear itself. I wouldn't mind actual set items that gain extra bonuses if you equip multiple or all pieces of the set. On top of that I miss the more interesting bonus effects gear items could have in FFXI as you could get bonuses to job skills on artifact gear, resistance boosts against types of damage or attacks, some even provided passives like double attack and triple attack at a low proc rate. Weapons could also have chances to proc additional on hit effects with auto attacks. Because of this it felt like there was far more variation in the gear sets used by players outside a few specific pieces like the scorpion harness or haubergeon.

If they keep with instanced duties make them require more thought and skill by players and don't cave into the people crying about something being too hard. Too many in the industry in general have gone that route and the overall quality of players in general has suffered for it and this doesn't apply to just MMOs.

Housing. Housing in this game IMO isn't bad tbh. There just isn't enough of it and one aspect of it wasn't accounted for during the game's lifespan. If there were more areas with housing wards such as in ishgard (opportunity there to try something new where people buy a land plot then actually have to use crafting skills to build their home) or possibly use the sea of clouds to do the instanced housing people have been crying for so they can be on their own little island in the sky it would do much for the complaints of "I cant get a house" However one of the things that they failed to account for during the life of this game is gil inflation. When housing launched as FC only getting the gil for it was a sort of accomplishment. Now its trivial for anyone putting in atleast minimal effort and not constantly buying frivolous overpriced things. If less people could afford to buy a house there would be a lot less complaints about the amount of housing available as well.

I also wouldn't mind the return of exp loss on death considering how much people cried about it in Eureka. More incentives for players not to play with their brain disabled the better.

Maybe I'm delusional but I clearly remember filling out a survey from SE with one of the questions asking about this very thing. Or something along the lines like "would you play it" and if we're going based off of the pattern. XVI would be a Single Player RPG and XVII would be the MMO since XI was the MMO, XII & XIII were RPGS. I personally don't think Hack n' Slash type playstyle similar to BDO, BnS, and what not would work very well for a Final Fantasy MMO. Then again FFXV is pretty fun but the combat after a while seems very dry and repetitive. Maybe who knows.

I would like next one where Devs would quit missing with classes abilities and have it where was like ffxi where could pick a sub class to be.

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Originally Posted by LinXiaoMei

Maybe I'm delusional but I clearly remember filling out a survey from SE with one of the questions asking about this very thing. Or something along the lines like "would you play it" and if we're going based off of the pattern. XVI would be a Single Player RPG and XVII would be the MMO since XI was the MMO, XII & XIII were RPGS. I personally don't think Hack n' Slash type playstyle similar to BDO, BnS, and what not would work very well for a Final Fantasy MMO. Then again FFXV is pretty fun but the combat after a while seems very dry and repetitive. Maybe who knows.

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You're definitely not delusional. They ran a survey, I think mid-way through SB if memory serves me correctly (could be towards the end of HW), on that very topic. I'm waiting to see how 7R turns out to see how a more recent indication of how they intend to handle action combat and whether they need more work on it.

I wouldn't be opposed to a more action focused game so long as it didn't lose sight of the fact that most people play RPG's for the sake of experiencing a decent story.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

I completely agree. Actually I believe they should do this in FFXIV right now, adding a solo option for all older MSQ instances. I feel like it could quite easily be done by just messing with the numbers. It won't have instance gameplay as originally intended, but it will be better than waiting ages for a queue and it would also satisfy all if it's just a voluntary option. They'll perhaps get obliged to do something like this because it will get harder and harder to keep older content relevant with each expansion.

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Yeah, though there are additional benefits for purely solo designed duties for MSQ relevancy, beyond what I mentioned above.

1) The ability to use cutscenes during said duty. SE learned their lesson about with with Praetorium and Castrum Meridianum what happens when they combine cutscenes and Duties. I.e. First timers want to watch the cutscenes, but people whom are just here for the roulette bonus want to skip everything and nuke all the enemies and get out asap. With purely solo designed duties from the outset, they have all the freedom in the world to put cutscenes into the MSQ required duty because there will be no people rushing ahead while you're sat watching the cutscenes. Meaning that when people are doing the group version, no-one has any cutscenes left to watch, so everyone can just get on with the thing.

2) Increased ability to put in books to read. Since, in a solo duty you can go at your own pace, you can stop and read the books. I know that some of the newer dungeons have some books in that I'd like to read, unfortunately, PuG's want to just blast through at 3000 MPH.

3) More room to put in optional paths. One of the main points against optional paths is that no-one uses them, because in DF content, people just want to rush to the end to get their Exp/Tomes. But with solo content, people are more able to partake in optional side paths and little puzzles (Such as the Lost Temple of Qarn, before it got nerfed to better facilitate DF zergs)

4) Potential for additional objectives. Instead of just having "Hallway of Trash" > "Boss" > "Hallway of Trash" > "Boss" > "Hallway of Trash" > "Boss" copied and pasted for literally every. Single. Duty. They could put in additional things to do. "Go disable the security of this Garlean base". "Optional: Destroy the armoury to prevent reinforcements". "Hidden: Find the top secret lab > Optional: Find the research notes > Defeat the head Researcher!". Since again, they don't need to create content that has to only facilitate zerging through because 99.99% of people are only playing it because Roulette rewards...

Like, we go visit so many places in the course of MSQ duties, but then most of the time we're just trying to keep up with the PuG we're with who've already done it 50 times despite it only being released 5 minutes prior...

Trusts/Squadrons help somewhat, but there's still that particular issue with regards to immersion, when we're referenced or shown to be alone. I.e. A fairly recent but notable example is Mt Gulg and the trial at the end. We head off to the Trial, alone. Then *Poof* 7 people turn up to help us smack down the boss and then *Poof* they're all gone and we're alone in the cutscene where everyone else catches up to us.

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Originally Posted by LinXiaoMei

Maybe I'm delusional but I clearly remember filling out a survey from SE with one of the questions asking about this very thing.

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There's been a few if I recall correctly.

I believe there was one way back in 1.0/2.0 and is the reason that there's a 2.5s GCD (As opposed to the industry "Standard" 2.0s or most modern MMO's 1.5-1.0s).

There have since been others, though I can't date them exactly.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I wouldn't be opposed to a more action focused game so long as it didn't lose sight of the fact that most people play RPG's for the sake of experiencing a decent story.

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Yup, lack of a good story, as well as immersion/authenticity, is a real dealbreaker for me when it comes to just about any RPG, and MMORPGs are no exception to that.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Assuming one will be made.

What should be done differently? What should remain the same? How should the game function? What kind of (new) features do you want? What are your expectations? ......?

(Forgive me if this thread has been made before, but I couldn't find anything with advanced search.)

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Story should remain front and center and not an optional thing you can do if you want.

Keep the same classes/jobs/races at the start, no need to add new ones down the line. But if you insist on having a new one, make sure the new races/jobs don't have limitations and make sure they can be played from the start. In other words, make the starting experience allow for new races/jobs if you want to add new jobs/races. Oh, and stick to one, either class or job, no need for both. And make sure the raid sizes are big enough to make use of all the classes/jobs.

Keep the same great gamepad support, fitting whatever control is chosen, preferably tab targeting, not too impressed with action mmorpg. If multiplatform is desired, keep the same crossplay functionality, no segregation between platforms.

Keep duty finder.

Keep the ability to play in any region, no region lock unless the local laws demand it.

If possible, just have one data center per region, maybe even one world.

I prefer no gun/machine/alien/etc, more sword and magic and stay within the world, no alternate universe no space/other planets.

I prefer no reference to other Final Fantasy/SE/third party games/media/etc beyond probably the basics that are seen in multiple FF games, but I don't believe a FF game has to be referencing the franchise. I would be ok with a Final Fantasy game with no moogle/chocobo/cid/gilgamesh, for example.

A glamour collection system, doesn't have to be account wide (although I wouldn't mind account wide), just give me a reason to want to collect the gear for glamour without having to worry about inventory space.

Either no flying at all forever or flying from the start with the same quick and easy way to unlock as in FFXIV, if not quicker/easier. None of this base game has no flying and only expansion zones have flight.

Instanced housing if player housing is desired, but could do without housing myself (I say that as I own a house in FFXIV >.>).

No different starting areas/factions/gc/etc.

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Might be more controversial than the above:

No player economy, no player trading, every transaction deals with NPCs with fixed pricing.
No crafting/gathering, hire NPC services for those.
No pvp.
No addons, but provide features that are needed/desired (with some reason), especially QoL features.

In a nutshell:

• A true take on the 'build your own hero' concept originally promised, instead of just multiple entirely independent progressions each with only a single playstyle.
• A living world and plenty of reasons to be out in it.
• A responsive, button-efficient, and highly nuance-capable combat system with plenty of intelligently crafted undermechanics that can make even basic overworld fights interesting.
• Far more customization -- not necessarily in terms of count so much as impact and breadth/depth of attraction.
• Better graphics (especially in terms of texturing and antistrophic filtering -- please no more flickering textures in the distance).
• More active use of camera, phasing, and so forth for quest progression and story-telling. No more mere purple circles or "Destination" markers.
• Greater capacity for personalization, especially in how we react to said story. Think: mannerism sets, which we can change on the fly to both preemptively and reactively set how our characters will seemingly feel about or react to things around them.

Here is my one thing i would like to see different for the next MMO. Not sure if someone else said the same thing. I am not bothering to read all the comments.

Quests
When partied up with other players, let us please have the option to see what quests your Party Members are working on and actually be able to assist them with it.

"Solo" Instances
When in a party with someone, let us go into a so called "Solo" instance with them so we can help/experience it with them. Possibly knocking out two separate quests at once if both players need it. This would also lower the number of individual instances that need to be maintained for that.

Cut-scenes/Dialog
This goes hand in hand with the above. This is an MMO, allow the story to account for more than one "Chosen One" or "Hero". Allow us to go into the same cut-scenes together. I would love to have been able to see my friends character in a lot of cut-scenes with mine. Even if they are just silent the entire time, or if they have the ability to influence the cut-scene based on their responses in dialogue prompts.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Games without the holy trinity have been done before, but the combat tends to quickly devolve into chaos without any sort of tanking or healing so sometimes they retrofit those in, in some capacity, later anyway. It can work without it, but usually the content isn't challenging enough to require it then.

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By the same token, combat in holy trinity games tends to devolve into one player standing somewhere and looking at tankbuster timers on a 3rd party app and facerolling their rotation between them since their damage doesn't remotely matter, another staring only at raid bars and hanging idle between damage intake, and the others performing dummy combat rotations, none necessarily sure or even affected by whether the players with them are bots are not.

tl;dr: You're giving a few samples as the rule, all without noting that the equally bad samples exist among holy trinity games.

All games need different readinesses to perform tasks, but it matters little if that readiness depends on preemptive decisions (e.g. class, spec, or talent choice), their recent activities, their positioning, or whatever else.

Pure generalization usually fails, not because it precludes diverse tasks but because communities usually have trouble grasping the idea of making and following their own criteria for who should do what.
Pure specialization, on the other hand, necessarily restricts the diversity of tasks any player can engage with at a given time.

Without any sort of shared currency to value their time by varying situational weights and to some tactically (meaning, as a deliberate optimizable choice among multiple such choices) support each other's core tasks or throughput over one's own (e.g. a tank going out of their way to ease another's long-term/uncapped contribution over their own), healers, tanks, and damage-dealers each merely get to experience a third of the game.

Among the non-trinity games you've likely seen, it's not the lack of dedicated tanking and healing that rendered those games shallow, but the lack of control systems and personal and group-minded decisions that you know as "tank" and "heal" tasks, but could in fact by done by anyone. They are merely "tanking" and "healing" tasks; one does not have to remove themselves from all other capacities to perform them, nor does it have to be the same player or set of players who performs those tasks each time.

Either make it final fantasy 7 combat system where you equip your magc /skills into your equipment or the License board system in the game were we have a build your own job/class system and remove exp and replace it with Lp Growth so you don't have a level you have total Lp points placed so 1 level would be about 20-30 Lps

Add in the Trail system similar to ff10 for the summoning where you must travel and earn the right to summon the creatures through either combat or a test depending on the summon and then they could upgreaded to dark aeons for the ex trail/test they put you through.

The best system honestly for character design and honestly for real effort = ability that isn't false is the license board system where the more time you put into it you can end up doing extremely great with no help system you must use your damn brain for once and learn the hard way no simple minded game play just grind get and learn what you place. If you make a mistake you should suffer for it and have to start over or pay 100k gil+1milgil+10mil gill to reset your LP board and try again.

or final fantasy's 10's system of the sphere grid.

or even make a binding contract system similar to ff8 where when you make your character you get 1 free summon you can pick from a select few and that will determine you growth at the start then you go out to get stronger make more contracts with other summons for whatever ability set you want. Where you start the game you pick the weapon that you desire a basic theme for character out of 4 options the Warrior, The theif, The mage, or The archer. (From this you will be given 5 stat points that you can spend or spells/skills and your weapon will be with you for life so choice wisely of what you want.

Keep- great outfits inspired by the long FF history.

Change- hair clipping with many of those outfits. I know it's a hard thing to manage so much customization between hair and clothing variety, so hopefully the next generation of artistic design fixes this problem. Lets face it, our characters in an mmo are the most important thing to most of us in a game we play this long.

Perhaps a midterm solution would be having a secondary hairstyle, like having long hair up in a pony tail or something with far fewer clipping issues when some outfits are worn.

Keep- overarching MSQ that carries on from through xpacs over the years, the ability to continue things even now that were introduced back in ARR and even before is one of my favourite parts of the storytelling. Many MMOs I've played either utterly ignoring other xpacs (like WoD basically be forgotten entirely) or retconning huge chunks of lore regularly which created a disjointed and nonsensical storyline.

Change- minimalist storytelling within dungeons/raids. I'm not saying to go back to the Praetorium formula; but more flavour text while running along, and more bosses that are big parts of the story. Generally dungeons/raids tend to consist of running down a hall, and only the final boss generally feels linked to the story.

Keep- mechanics intensive rather than grind/gear intensive content. Most MMOs put you on a ruthless, grindy treadmill you can never escape, where the formula is to force a hundred hours of dull grind on the player for every hour of enjoyable content they can do once they've maxed out all their stats. Not having that loom over both the players and the developers lets both parties focus on everything in the game rather than just the endgame raid, and I think it makes a better overall game by far.

Change- the formulaic nature of dungeons/raids. As before, the way all the group content and even to a degree a fair chunk of the story and other content is designed has a predictable structure. It's ok to deviate from a formula in places. I get that 6 zones per xpac makes for a clean looking aether compass UI, and having every dungeon/raid/etc... structured the same way makes them all relatively similar in length unlike Praetorium vs Castrum for the MSQ roulette.

That's a minor gripe though, and maybe it is better this way. I do like the idea that rather than 'trash' fights between bosses you have encounters between bosses in raids that act like their own form of mini boss.

Keep- multiple story arcs and a mix of heroism and consequences. I never really liked the amount of busywork MMOs force on you, with fetch and gather x or kill y quests from one end of the zone to the other that never have anything to do with you. But, when those quests are related to the MSQ, when my heroism or failures have consequences or benefits to those common folk their otherwise pointless side quests suddenly are given meaning because it is related to something I've done, or spurs me to do something in the future.

I like that I get to see the villain's side of the story as well.

Change- perhaps controversial and most difficult, but consequences have more oomph when you're making the decision yourself. Considering how vast the MSQ and major side questlines already are, it can become a major tangle if there's multiple choices all with their own little cumulative changes.

Either you end up with what is basically a series of choices with consequences limited in scope (only pertain to a character, like conversation choices with followers in a Bioware game- or the zone/planet you're in, or that specific story branch)- or choices that really don't change anything at all.

Still, even if in order to keep the story from becoming unwieldy or messy the choices are fairly shallow- if we were to get a big budget, next gen new MMO in the FF universe I think it could be more engaging.

Keep- crossovers. Whether it's references to other FF games or stuff with Monster Hunter and Nier, I love that they can be woven into the game fluidly. Also, keep up the comic parts- Hildibrand's stories are a great respite from an often dire main story.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Among the non-trinity games you've likely seen, it's not the lack of dedicated tanking and healing that rendered those games shallow, but the lack of control systems and personal and group-minded decisions that you know as "tank" and "heal" tasks, but could in fact by done by anyone. They are merely "tanking" and "healing" tasks; one does not have to remove themselves from all other capacities to perform them, nor does it have to be the same player or set of players who performs those tasks each time.

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Sure, but even if it can be done by anyone that still means someone has to do these tasks, no? It's entirely possible I've missed several MMO's that do this because I'm not really looking for a new one to play, but if there is one out there that does what you say I'd love to hear which one.

Unless this was all hypothetical in the sense that just because we haven't seen it done well doesn't mean it's not possible, in which case I'd agree and I'd still love to see it.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Sure, but even if it can be done by anyone that still means someone has to do these tasks, no?

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Yes, but the decision of who will do something can include more factors as to who is in the best position to do that thing than just who picked which "role". Essentially, the more deeply designs preemptively specialize those tasks by means outside of combat (such as by role, class, spec, talents, or gear choice), the less players have to engage in those decisions.

Now, there's a point where there's too much going on at once to feel like you're doing any part of it--let alone the parts most attractive to you, which specialization helps you focus on according to your own choices--as well as you'd like, and preemptive specialization can help to keep that in check. But, going too far in the opposite direction means that there's only one choice, and therefore effectively none. Good design has situational best answers, if often near enough that convention (person with X tends to do the X things), player preference (what you want to do), a specific capacity (what you're specifically good at) can play a part in those decisions, but they should always be multiple.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Unless this was all hypothetical in the sense that just because we haven't seen it done well doesn't mean it's not possible, in which case I'd agree and I'd still love to see it.

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Sadly, this is largely hypothetical, at least from my limited experience (since midway through college, several years ago, I've had little time to sample many MMOs in full). I've yet to see any MMO, to either side of the spectrum, really nail what I'm talking about. The closest I've seen, oddly enough, would be something like oddball runs back in WotLK (no tank, no healers... well, I guess we just completely rethink all our assumptions about how combat is supposed to work and own that new world) and undergeared and undermanned runs Blade and Soul (where a single missed task meant we'd all die and there were very real and necessary decisions to be made about those tasks).

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Sadly, this is largely hypothetical, at least from my limited experience (since midway through college, several years ago, I've had little time to sample many MMOs in full). I've yet to see any MMO, to either side of the spectrum, really nail what I'm talking about. The closest I've seen, oddly enough, would be something like oddball runs back in WotLK (no tank, no healers... well, I guess we just completely rethink all our assumptions about how combat is supposed to work and own that new world) and undergeared and undermanned runs Blade and Soul (where a single missed task meant we'd all die and there were very real and necessary decisions to be made about those tasks).

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Ironically, I think that a close approximation to this scenario is found in Monster Hunter: World.

"Tanking" is done by, whomever has the aggro of the monster, whomever has the most life or whomever is in a good position to actually do something about it.

"Healing" is done by, whomever has the items available if they have the time and space to do so.

Meanwhile, everyone is doing relevant damage.

In addition, you can tune yourself towards a particular support role outside of combat if you wish, for example, if you want to Tank more often, you can pick a weaponset that has a shield (Sword and Shield, Charged Blade, Lance or Gunlance) and equip armour that helps you stay in the thick of things (Increased health, Stagger protection, improved blocking etc). Meanwhile, if you want to Heal more often, you can pick a Bowgun that can use Healing Bullets and carry more items that provide healing, cleansing or buffing to allies.

To top it off, all these weapon specializations also have benefits for dealing damage to boot. Sword and Shield has a good combo that enables mounting to eventually knock down a monster to enable big damage but slow activation attacks, Charged Blade can turn into a giant electrified axe that smashes giant fissures into the Earth and whatever poor monster is in your way, Lance can be aimed in several directions making it easier to hit weak spots, Gunlance can explode (Like a Gunblade) which can deal damage through armoured areas and Bowguns have a plethora of different ammunition types that can target monster weaknesses, can apply various status effects to disable monsters or can just dish out massive damage if you use them in their optimum range.

So it's not like your gearing towards a support role leaves you in a state where you can ONLY do that thing. Everyone can still do everything, gearing towards a role merely affects how often you'll be in a position to perform that role.

Heck, for the Behemoth fight as part of the FFXIV Crossover event, they even implemented enmity to further define how often someone could "Tank" (Basically, hit the giant angry Behemoth in the face and he'll focus on you)

-The main one for me is no 1.0 spaghetti code. That's the single largest limitation in this game and about 95% of stuff we ask for gets shot down because "the servers can't handle it". Invest in good code and servers that can handle fluid, responsive combat and any customization.

-Fluid combat. Instant abilities that trigger instantly, instead of pressing a tank CD two thirds through the cast bar and seeing it resolve a second after you get hit. None of this nonsense where mechanic animations come after the damage. Shorter GcD's. More meaningful stats, instead of "meld whatever you like, it's only 0.53% difference".

-Flexible raid modes. I loved flex in WoW. It encouraged FC's to run content together instead of breaking off into statics. I'd like to see a harder flex version of the Alliance raids too, that could be great fun in an FC group. Alliances are wasted on the average DF pug.

-Speaking of, meaningful FC's. A FC event calender. Minor perks for running content together. A better FC bank.

-Mythic+ style dungeons. Regular dungeons are a waste of developer time. Just a zerg chore that people rush for tomes or exp but seem to hate doing.

-No paid inventory space. Two retainers, 4 expansions in, in a game with thousands of crafting mats is ridiculous. By all means put vanity items in the store, not bag space.

-A dps meter. Controversial and I respect opinions otherwise but the topic did ask what I'd like to see.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

well, I guess we just completely rethink all our assumptions about how combat is supposed to work and own that new world)

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Yeah, this is what it would take I think. Sadly MMO's are falling out of favor with developers so I can't see anyone do a complete reimagining of combat and the players' role in that. Blade & Soul had some interesting ideas on this I agree, I haven't played in well over a year but when I quit the need for at least a tank was very real. Even if there were multiple classes that could realistically do it, it mostly came down to Blade Masters and Kung Fu Masters (at the time at least).

TERA was probably my (personal) favorite implementation of the holy trinity because healing and damage mitigation/tanking was very active. You couldn't actually target people normally but both healers had a skill that allowed them to lock on to (X) amount of targets and it would directly heal them, Mystics could drop HP and MP orbs where they stood so people could heal themselves or restore their mana if you dropped them close to them, and the other Priest heals (and cleanses) required you to move within a certain range of players for everyone to be in your 'circle'. Coupled with i-frames like B&S has to dodge the big bads and debuffs on enemies at the right times. Still, that means you're locked into needing a tank & healer but it was a lot more fun than just playing whack-a-mole with health bars. But this was also many years ago so that may have changed by now too.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Ironically, I think that a close approximation to this scenario is found in Monster Hunter: World.

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I only just started playing it back when it had its Steam sale and overall it hasn't been my cup of tea--just due to the simplicity of attack/ability options and so on--but from what gameplay I've seen, you're probably right on the money there.

It just still doesn't appear as great an example as I would like simply due to how little there is going mechanically for each player, even if it does do a good job of letting each player engage with a greater portion of the tasks.

I'd love to see something with BDO/MHW's button efficiency that nonetheless makes use of almost as many buttons in total as XIV does (basically just minus combo bloat and then replacing rarely used keys) atop the kind of strong decisions allowed for by versatility and pacing/positioning/situational priorities therein rather than clear-cut roles that we've hinted at so far.

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Originally Posted by linay

Might be more controversial than the above:

No player economy, no player trading, every transaction deals with NPCs with fixed pricing.
No crafting/gathering, hire NPC services for those.
No pvp.
No addons, but provide features that are needed/desired (with some reason), especially QoL features.

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Controversial indeed, but now I'm curious as to my own tastes in these regards.

I mentioned before that I wanted to see a "living world". The more I think about it, there'd need to be significant NPC presence in the economy for that to work. There have to be NPC craftsman who'd want to buy your more basic materials for their own crafts, guard divisions who need armaments, traders moving things between markets for profit with or without you. Getting up to the level of the established money-makers should feel like an accomplishment early into the game, and likely certain NPCs should function right alongside and with many of the bigshot players.

Heck, if this were the original XIV world, reborn (again), I wouldn't doubt that the Monetarists would just... have you assassinated if you get a little too audacious without the strategy to back yourself up, complete with rituals of obliteration to ensure no one remembers you when you Echo yourself back to life.

As for crafting/gathering, I've always felt using separate classes for that was a tremendous waste, as it made it so there could never be any real combination of risk and reward in gathering. Stealth completely replaces combat, after all. Why not go some place guarded by a rare mini-boss and fight or sneak your way past that to get to whatever you want to gather.
...And that's not even getting started on replacing nodes with actual prospecting and woodcraft....

For comprehensiveness's sake, yes on official addons instead, but no on axing PvP -- for my preferences. The more a game can embrace PvP, usually the more it has to embrace intelligent enemy design and more than the barebone "hit thing with most X value til it's dead; repeat" scripting.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

-A dps meter. Controversial and I respect opinions otherwise but the topic did ask what I'd like to see.

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I'd like to see one of those, too. They will exist and will be used regardless of whether they want to include one, so the rules around misusing it should already have that covered off.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Job mastery incorporated into MSQ. I.e. If after a battle, people are injured and you're playing a healing job, your character runs to go tend to them. But if after the same battle someone else is playing a tank job, they go to the front to protect against any suprise attacks etc. Different paths based on what your character is actually good at (So no, dueling Lyse and threatening her by... Holding a BOOK at her :rolleyes: )

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Yes please!

How often did I yell at my screen "Ifalna, do sth useful and heal them FFS!"....

BTW: She wasn't "threatening" Lyse with the book. She was preparing to bore her to death by reciting Aetheromathematical equations.
A far worse fate than getting smacked on your head with a 3K+ pages tome!

What need to change :

- Better physics (clipping, clothes when sitting etc.).
- Graphic update (close rang cinematics can hurt eyes : gun or hands that really look awful).
- Better housing system (something like Wildstar, even if instancied).
- Better glamour system (the last changes are rather going the right way).
- More customizations for characters (something like Aion is just fine, maybe with few restrictions that avoid weird/monstruous things)


What would I keep as it is?

- All jobs on the same character.
- Craft and gathering, mostly.
- Compagnies deliveries and custom deliveries for levelling craft and gathering.
- Full personalized keybinding.
- Hildibrand
- Steampunk/techno-magic (eventually kind of magic-cyberpunk as it is in FF7)
(There are too many medieval inspired MMO's)
- The unsync mode for old content


What could be better?

- Alt management : some shared chest.
- Maybe a more lively world : NPC who adapt their behavior to the daylight.
- No race lock.
- More background about where races come from.
- Gameplay as it is in BDO but with a full personalized keybinding.
- Eureka without the dragons :p
- Less fedex quests
- Trust and squadron.


What could be nice, maybe?

- Seasons

-A functional engine that can be negotiated with.

Unpopular idea: A few voice actors to choose from for our characters (but we still don't say very much). We're just getting more and more of those awkward moments where we have to choose our dialogue in the MSQ and it's awkward for half of the cast to be responding to silence.

One thing - Action combat. More on the TERA side of action combat.

More use for guilds. Do quests with friends. More activities you can pick up and put down to socialize in the community. Less focus on the dungeon and raid cycles. Better anti-troll measures in content (see: ocean fishing). More choice in substats, or subclasses. More in-game recruitment and advertising, and better QOL for it.

Butt sliders

Dong sliders

No gender locks

Beards

Better mount system (similar to GW2)

More open (less loading lines)

Better combat. Tab targeting is a little out dated. Preferably something with different combos.

An actual pet system.

Mount customisation not just locked to chocobos.

Actual seamless swimming. (No loading screen with diving) with a breath meter.

Potions that are actually useful.

Crafting/gathering as side skilltrees rather than a separate class.
Actual fishing rather than just press and catch.

Instance housing.

Current armour system is great. However shoulders, Cape, gauntlet (r) (l) bracelet (r) (l) ear (r) (l) make belts visible. Bring back Undergarment slots because the plastic looking underwear we have looks kinda gross. Add a sock/legging slot.

Living world. World changes if fates are won/lost new roads open up or close depending on the current situation. More hostiles appear and zones become more dangerous when hostiles take over. Towns become bandit dens. World updates with expansions so old zones don't become desolate.

Keep Lalafell

Proper support jobs.

Not being locked to a single weapon type.

THF is an actual job again.

No more fetch quests in the MSQ when your character is established as a hero.

Healers actually being healers.

Boss Battles are interesting and not just dodging AoEs 95% of the fight.

- The ability to help friends in the MSG - no more forced single player sections.
- The ability to fill partial parties with NPC's.
- A job system more in line with how it was done in Final Fantasy Tactics (will probably never happen, but I can dream)

- A better use of the world. I mean, there is no danger and no need of preparation when you explore a new map. You just have to pass through with your mount.
- A real pet system
- No weird combo class to unlock a job
- Skill trees so a job can be play in various ways; right now, there is only one way to play each job and you have to learn THE ROTATION if you don't want to suck.
- Better MSQ solo instances
- No Fates
- Levequests giving exp
- A better Hunt system
- A Limited job FOR SOLOING (not this BLU job with spells lock in EX trials you cannot do IN SOLO)

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Originally Posted by MeeDeggiThePunisher

Proper support jobs.

Healers actually being healers.

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How should encounters and jobs be designed differently to facilitate this?

I don't really like tab targeting, so I'd get rid of that. Additionally I'd like to allow all players to engage with each other no matter where they are in the game and to completely remove the idea of outdated content. To facilitate that:

-Compress or remove levels. At the moment a level capped character is somewhere around 1000 times stronger than a fresh level 1. I don't see any reason for such a gap. If the difference was maybe 2 times at most then even a max level character could participate in low level content without mindlessly destroying anything in front of them. It would also allow new characters to party with max level characters without feeling useless of totally carried.

-More open world focus. The MSQ, if present, wouldn't gate content. You would be able to explore the whole world from the beginning. Something like the FATE system should exist to fill the world with things to do, but it shouldn't be as simple as current FATES. I'd like to see more done with mobs as well, have them patrol larger areas and do a little more than just exist in designated spots. Also let them have the ability to fight each other, something the player can use to their advantage if needed. The game's story would also have to be more flexible to accommodate this, but I think that would be a good thing. Players would have more say in defining who their characters are.

Outside of the core game, I'd like more glam options, so no locks for gear. Emotes and such should be customizable as well. Housing should be expanded so that everyone can get a home. I don't really like random drops and I never understood why random chests in dungeons have fully functioning super gear in them, so I'd change things so that you farm materials from dungeons and raids and take them to a crater to create gear. Maybe add some customization into that as well. Probably unpopular but I wouldn't mind the removal of teleporting, I don't mind walking around. I also sometimes wonder if it contributed to the low points of the MSQ (fetch quests) because the devs figured "oh players can just teleport from A to B". I'd prefer that if we're sent anywhere it's for a significant reason.

Classes not tied to one specific weapon type.

No class/job system in the 14 sense (which is, to start, backward)

Better open world dungeons/content

An interface that works. Let us open windows inside instances and send tells inside instances, and eat food while queued for something, and all those awful coding wtf?'s.

Add-on functionality. Log parser, hotbar reconfiguration, group window reconfiguration, keybinging reconfiguration.


Healing un-borked. Healers should have to spend more time healing and finding efficiency / throughput optimization and not spend as little time as possible hard-charging heals.

Raid zones should be more than floating platforms in space with 1 boss who has at least 1 "lol knock you off my floating space platform" ability. It's cool to have a boss or two every couple expansions that do this, like how ARR Titans primary mechanic is a knockback and shrinking arena size and adds that make the floor lava so ohgodwheredoigo, but not every or most every, or more than a couple bosses need to do this.

Decoupling of Story and Content. GW2 does this very well. You have a HUGE personal story you can do, customized around choices you make at character select and in the storyline itself (and is also how you get your personal housing zone), but not doing it doesnt keep you from raiding, doing instances, going to new zones, tradeskilling, farming, taking transportation, using glamour/transmog, dying gear, ect.


Classes as a way to learn skills and abilities, not a shell to use them. Level as a "paladin", learn some sword skills and shield abilities, maybe some funky holy combat arts. Then you can use those skills on your real class, Warrior of Light. Level as a "warrior", get some berserking skills, some rage based yelling, and you can then use those on your actual class in conjunction with your paladin skills. Have certain things share cooldowns or bot work if you have other abilities currently giving you a buff, and bam, highlyn customizable Warrior of Light concept.

Better auction house / barter system and better bank system. Retainers are not the way.

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How should encounters and jobs be designed differently to facilitate this?

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Encounter damage should have randomness in damage, actual menacing auto-attacks and non-telegraphed abilities. Most encounters have no threat of killing you if you dont stand in large telegraphed areas with keep off the grass signs. Tanks have no fear of dying if they cooldown a tankbuster. Raids have no fear of death after most AE's because the next AE probably isnt hitting until after the full duration of a regen bubble or fairy regen ae.

Bosses arent particularly lethal, your teammates are more likely to cause a wipe than anything the boss does.

Class design is easy enough, you have healing kits without the ability to top you off in 1 manaless gcd+ogcd action from nearly any hp%, classes designed around adding more buff/debuff value than the average dps class adds, and group/raid sizes that let that class design work (5 or 6 and 10/12/18/20)

You know one other thing I would really like
REAL ADVENTURE


Like really.... All the lands we have gone to have already been explored and have people living in it or had people living in it,
What we need is a real wild land with nothing in it but wild forest/plants, animals /beast/fiends that want to kill anything moving where the strong survive and the weak die and become food... (and make it only available to hardcore characters where death is perm) where we journey for real not with a guided goon squad like the scions... were its man/woman vs the world and all that loveliness that swells