Patch 5.2 Feedback

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Originally Posted by althenawhm

I think YoshiP thought that since no one was spamming GCD heals to proc the old lilies, they didnt understand WHM and thought it was too difficult.
Of course he just designed WHMs wrong in 4.0.

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Of course they weren't spamming them, there's more efficient ways of keeping people's health up. I know this was one of the complaints about lilies, as a WHM friend put it during SB, you have to force yourself to play WHM badly to get lilies.

If that is what Yoshi said, then I think it does illustrate a misunderstanding in how healers tend to play their job or how they do so efficiently. In fairness 5.0 lilies is an improvement at least, even if it is basically a backwards aetherflow that generates overtime instead of a cool down.

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

They said that people had trouble with White Mage.... WHITE MAGE!

I nearly spewed when he said that, I thought it was a joke or mistranslation.

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I wouldn't say trouble, but I can see where this is coming from. Overall less mobility and instant heal on demand. Was "harder" to save someone's mistake and had to hardcast (Cure II/Medica II).
But that's for some specific scenario I must admit. It was a little behind.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

I wouldn't say trouble, but I can see where this is coming from. Overall less mobility and instant heal on demand. Was "harder" to save someone's mistake and had to hardcast (Cure II/Medica II).
But that's for some specific scenario I must admit. It was a little behind.

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No clue how you in anyway can have trouble with whm. All abilities say what they do and then even if you do dps there except the dot nothing to watch out for. Pretty sure if these people play sch or astro get a aneurysm from all the stuff you can do

That's what I said, specific scenario.
And that's not being in trouble, i'd say, lack of instant cast for certain moment.
But it was before Shb.

I understand where this comes from.
But it must have been exagereted a bit.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

That's what I said, specific scenario.
And that's not being in trouble, i'd say, lack of instant cast for certain moment.
But it was before Shb.

I understand where this comes from.
But it must have been exagereted a bit.

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Isn’t the first time that happens and at some point you begin to ask yourself why in the blazes are they making this game more and more easy. They do the same stuff wow has done. If ff 14 didn’t had his really good story I would be way more angry. I mean you lvl your job if you want to learn it or take some time and look at a guide for some dps jobs and then practice. These changes too push the skill ceiling down are infuriating.

White Mage is still boring. Glare, glare, glare, glare, dia, glare, occasional medica 2 or regen and divine benison to keep the tank up, back to glare.

Lilies are better than they were and plenary indulgence is also better but that's comparing sewage to sludge. I still don't want to drink it.

I've said for years that none of the devs that matter main a healer or really play and it's really showing. It was originally WHM but since they kneecapped the others to bring them quickly down to WHM's level rather than the slow slicing off of flesh they've done to WHM over the years I expanded it to be no healers.

"We can't include any new healers, because we need to balance the three we have first".

I literally guarantee this is going to be said at the 6.0 launch tour lol.

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Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

"We can't include any new healers, because we need to balance the three we have first".

I literally guarantee this is going to be said at the 6.0 launch tour lol.

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Put a weird, counterintuitive job mechanic and confusing nerfs to parts of the kits that didn't need it on that bingo card too and I'll drink to that.

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Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

"We can't include any new healers, because we need to balance the three we have first".

I literally guarantee this is going to be said at the 6.0 launch tour lol.

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Kek. Honestly a part of me would prefer that over getting a 4th healer. I'd rather have 3 healers that are boring/poorly designed over 4. Balance issues don't bother me, especially if those are easy to fix by just adjusting some numbers, but healer problems are fundamental gameplay problems. I honestly don't care how "balanced" they are, that doesn't make my 10,000th broil any more fun.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Kek. Honestly a part of me would prefer that over getting a 4th healer. I'd rather have 3 healers that are boring/poorly designed over 4. .

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I don't know.
They seem to do a good job when it comes to creating a new class from scratch since Stormblood (because 3 classes was too much). Sure, they needeed some little ajdustment over time, but overall, it was nicely designed i think.
I'm on the side that a 4th healer could be refreshing if they can merge feedbacks into it and adjust.
I'd like they also break that regen/shielder philosophy with them. Seeing our current kit, they more or less all come with more versatile skills so...

And... I just want a fresh new healer experience. No matter if the balance is there or not.
My HW SCH and HW/SB Ast are dead now so... at this point...

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Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

"We can't include any new healers, because we need to balance the three we have first".

I literally guarantee this is going to be said at the 6.0 launch tour lol.

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This.
On the off chance that a 4th healer is introduced, it'll be something stupid like a healer that only heals. Because SE loses their minds when it comes to us.

Damaging spells are needed for solo content.
At least, it'll get one ST and one aoe.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

This.
On the off chance that a 4th healer is introduced, it'll be something stupid like a healer that only heals. Because SE loses their minds when it comes to us.

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With a bunch of GCD spells and only one oGCD so they can make sure you stand still most of the fights.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

That's hard to say really. My first guess is that they are still stuck in the mentality of how healers were played in ARR.

But perhaps a more likely banana skin could be with how testing, balancing and QA is handled. My suspicion is that SE simply have a large pool of testers shared between multiple projects with people getting assigned through fairly random tickets. So there's a pretty good chance that alterations and balancing choices are getting validated by people that potentially don't have a particularly deep understanding of the game beyond 'can I keep my group alive?' and 'is my character's head attached on the right way?'. They don't look at SCH landing in a new expansion with no AoE yet again and go 'hey yeah, this is bad right?' as they likely don't know any better.

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I think this is precisely where their problems lie. The dev team focuses too much on players who think Cure III is an upgrade on Cure II and "accessibility" instead of trying to develop a middle ground. That, and they seem utterly terrified of making content require more dedicated healing. It's strange because we see them make efforts towards the latter hence why heals are actually weaker than they were in Stormblood. Yet they tune fights lower or don't consider healers have so many tools nowadays that small reductions, especially to GCD heals, won't make a dent beyond large dungeon pulls. It just feels like the whole design philosophy for healers is a confusing mess.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

With a bunch of GCD spells and only one oGCD so they can make sure you stand still most of the fights.

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Full time BLU Healer confirmed!

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I think this is precisely where their problems lie. The dev team focuses too much on players who think Cure III is an upgrade on Cure II and "accessibility" instead of trying to develop a middle ground. That, and they seem utterly terrified of making content require more dedicated healing. It's strange because we see them make efforts towards the latter hence why heals are actually weaker than they were in Stormblood. Yet they tune fights lower or don't consider healers have so many tools nowadays that small reductions, especially to GCD heals, won't make a dent beyond large dungeon pulls. It just feels like the whole design philosophy for healers is a confusing mess.

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To be honest, GCD heals are rather boring in this game. I don't think spamming Physick/Cure/Benefic in lieu of Broil/Glare/Malefic will make healing any more entertaining.

As an example, healing in the sustain-based gamplay of WoW has been designed to ensure you have plenty of interesting healing mechanics so that you don't feel like you're in a one spell loop of healing spam. You have heals that bounce off each party member, quick cast heals with high cost, slow efficient heals, channeled heals, healing by dealing damage, gathered potency heals, HoT synergy, duplicate heals on marked targets, sacrifice your own health to heal others, etc.

In FFXIV you get a few interesting heal mechanics but they are not exactly core healing abilities. Excogitation, Earthly Star, Horoscope and Plenary Indulgence for example.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I think this is precisely where their problems lie. The dev team focuses too much on players who think Cure III is an upgrade on Cure II and "accessibility" instead of trying to develop a middle ground. That, and they seem utterly terrified of making content require more dedicated healing. It's strange because we see them make efforts towards the latter hence why heals are actually weaker than they were in Stormblood. Yet they tune fights lower or don't consider healers have so many tools nowadays that small reductions, especially to GCD heals, won't make a dent beyond large dungeon pulls. It just feels like the whole design philosophy for healers is a confusing mess.

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Also want to add, we don't know how SE viewed 5.0 -> 5.05 Ast healing adjustments whether they viewed it as,
- not on par with what whm/sch offered
Or
-people don't like weaker heals.

The former should be how they look at it while I suspect it is the latter on how they view it.

5.0 ast healing would've been fine if whm and sch had the same/near enough healing output but it didn't and was rightly needing buffs or whm and sch would have to take a nerf which they really didn't want to do.

If it is indeed the latter how they see it, pfft ain't ever going to have interesting healing requirements.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Also want to add, we don't know how SE viewed 5.0 -> 5.05 Ast healing adjustments whether they viewed it as,
- not on par with what whm/sch offered
Or
-people don't like weaker heals.

The former should be how they look at it while I suspect it is the latter on how they view it.

5.0 ast healing would've been fine if whm and sch had the same/near enough healing output but it didn't and was rightly needing buffs or whm and sch would have to take a nerf which they really didn't want to do.

If it is indeed the latter how they see it, pfft ain't ever going to have interesting healing requirements.

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I was of the mind that AST didn't need to be brought up in terms of healing balance but SCH and WHM to be brought down. Maybe even to Noct Sect levels. All right, that might screw with Savage and Ultimate, I don't know, I'm not a heavy raider, given I don't have the room to be committed to a static and tend to casually PF content (by which point you're not expecting efficiency) , but I think it'd be a step in the right direction elsewhere.