no more hard dungeons

Don't care as long as Amaurot is removed from the expert roulette with the next one.

Welp we getting Eureka 2.0 at least it something worth our grind.

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Originally Posted by Alaina

Don't care as long as Amaurot is removed from the expert roulette with the next one.

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Amaurot takes hardly more effort than the alternatives. People who can't cope with a few dungeons being almost imperceptibly more work or slower than others is precisely why everything is so streamlined now.

Also removing any dungeons from Expert Roulette at all is a terrible idea if they're gonna only add 1 per patch.

As long as it benefits us all in some way I'm fine with losing a dungeon. If it doesn't, then, well...

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Originally Posted by Alaina

Don't care as long as Amaurot is removed from the expert roulette with the next one.

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I'd much rather run Amaurot than The Twinning for the millionth time.

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Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

a mythic plus dungeons system would be good

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No! Absolutely not! Mythic plus dungeons is full of toxic jerks which killed wow and made me quit the game. I assure you if they add something like this lots of people will unsubscribe including myself. And that will kill FF14.

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Originally Posted by Magnedeus

No! Absolutely not! Mythic plus dungeons is full of toxic jerks which killed wow and made me quit the game. I assure you if they add something like this lots of people will unsubscribe including myself. And that will kill FF14.

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People say the same about Extreme and Savage and those aren't making you quit the game, are they? Extreme/Savage level dungeons also have the advantage that it's a lot more realistic to do them solely with friends, given you only need 3 buddies, as opposed to the 7 you need for Savage.

The reason why dungeons have been boring these last few years are a combination of two things. The amount we get and they all use the same formula, kinda like if an amusement park had a bunch of roller coasters that was all the same except the paint and some random things on the side, still the same roller coaster even if one has an elephant on the side and one has a panda.
The right way to deal with dungeons, and as a result the expert roulette, being boring is not to add less dungeons, the solution is to change the formula.

But how can they change the formula?
A dungeons does not need to be 3 bosses, it can have everything from 0 - however many they want. How to deal with the loot? Just throw it all in at the end.
A dungeon can have traps.
A dungeon can have exploration, even if it is just the illusion of it.
A dungeon can have hidden bosses.
A dungeon can have parts that are randomly generated.
There are so many things that can be done here, but I guess reducing the amount is cheaper and frees up resources for single player story related content that we will only play once.

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Originally Posted by Soraki-Muppe

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Cannot +1 like this comment enough! That is the exact kind of variety I've been pining for dungeons, AND if 1 dungeon per patch would bring us any of that I would not mind at all just getting one fun dungeon.
Exploration and hidden bosses especially are something I'd like to see, because there has been something like that in this game too. Kinda. Storytime:
- Me, as tank, and my pocket healer were running Amdapor Keep together long ago, and she decided to check out if Demon Brick chest would give us the minion. Random DPS sounds like he is about to start whining about us going off the trail. Chest gives us minion, random DPS gets it, his comment: "Oh :D".
- Me, as tank, and my pocket healer, again, were running Brayflox's Longstop, and I decided to lead us to kill the Coeurl "miniboss". I just like that it gives those nice rings for low level. Random sprout seems confused about us going off the trail, but follows anyway. Chest gives us ring for the sprout's class, his comment: "Oh :D".
Nothing special with those happenstances, BUT for some reason stuff like that lingers positively in my mind. Unlike any random expert roulette dungeon.
Bardam's Mettle's mechanics only 2nd boss was cool too. SE could build boss like that again. Something like Amdapor Keep HM's trashfight against the clock with 3 Demon Wall's closing on you could be also cool to see again.

Dungeons are basically all the same thing. Strait Path => Kill Trash x2 => Kill Boss => Kill Trash x2 => Kill Boss => Kill Trash x2 => Kill Final Boss.


The backgrounds and stuff are well made but all dungeons at the core are more or less the same.



This announcement does not bother me if they are using the development time to make more unique content, which FFXIV badly needs. Or if they are actually making real dungeons that are not linear.



Now if this is because trust or something are making dungeons take a lot longer to code... then it is a horrible move on their part. Have to wait and see I guess.

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Originally Posted by RadicalPesto

People say the same about Extreme and Savage and those aren't making you quit the game, are they? Extreme/Savage level dungeons also have the advantage that it's a lot more realistic to do them solely with friends, given you only need 3 buddies, as opposed to the 7 you need for Savage.

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A higher difficulty dungeon is fine. It doesn't have to (and shouldn't) be a timed run dungeon.

I'll never get my Aurum Vale (Hard) :(

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Getting 1 dungeon also means they can focus more time in making it a good dungeon.

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Or they could burn more money on their another useless triple A project like FFXV 2.0

Dont expect nothing from SE, their main producer is working on FFXIV and another game, they are dividing the workforce to create another useless game that nobody is going to play 1 month after release.
The SHB got significantly less than stormblood this is a fact, and this my friend means we are not getting anything at all for the lost extra dungeons we always had.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'd wager trusts are to blame. Coding the NPC's to be able to react to mechanics probably takes up a chunk of development time, to say nothing of what is already spent on environment design, music and enemy models.

I'll miss the extra dungeons since hard modes were an excellent continuation to some dungeon stories. I'm sure there will be payoff elsewhere with a broader range of content, though it's still a shame.

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Trusts have nothing to do with it. They said at the beginning of the expansion that only MSQ dungeons would have the Trusts, and we only ever got one of them per patch anyway, generally. The other was always a side-quest dungeon.

I only hope we're getting something more elsewhere to make up for the lack of side quest dungeons going forward.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'd wager trusts are to blame. Coding the NPC's to be able to react to mechanics probably takes up a chunk of development time, to say nothing of what is already spent on environment design, music and enemy models.

I'll miss the extra dungeons since hard modes were an excellent continuation to some dungeon stories. I'm sure there will be payoff elsewhere with a broader range of content, though it's still a shame.

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It depends on what it's being exchanged for... if it's another trial or something similar, or moving resources to work on improving graphics/adding the missing genders later down the line, or other future expansion features (given how far ahead they begin work), I'm fine with it. I just hope it won't devolve into having one single dungeon on the "expert" roulette. All they need to do is have queuing via the roulette affect what loot drops/rewards you get and have all max level dungeons feature in it.

If it's niche, low quality content or just resource diversion to other projects, not too impressed.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Getting 1 dungeon also means they can focus more time in making it a good dungeon.

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I wish I shared your optimism.

Personally speaking, I think it would be best for the game, if all the hard version dungeons would just replace the normal ones, or kind of get merged together and replace them with actually new different unique dungeos.

It has from begin on never been fair, why only some specific dungeons received hard versions.

Copying old content and making it only harder is just a sign of lazyness n missing creativity on the dev side. However, undoing that now is impossible, the damage to the game is done and its unrepairable by now, without causing lots of new problems, so deciding on stopping doing them was probably the best decision, even if it looks in the end like a total stupid fail design, that only like a handful of dungeons from xx have also hard versions, while all others don't have that. It will give you as player the impression, the game is just incomplete and unfinished

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Originally Posted by Kaiserdrache

Copying old content and making it only harder is just a sign of lazyness n missing creativity on the dev side.

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That's not what they've done for hard dungeons in this game. They're just set in the same location and have the same aesthetics, but the dungeon layout and some enemies are different.

Theyve done some cool stuff with hard mode dungeons. I'm sad they wont be doing them anymore, though hopefully we get some other content that isnt just "lol +1 trial!" each patch.

I dunno how a circle (or square) with a boss in it that you run once on its easy version and hopefully-not-49/99 times on its slightly harder version is "better" content than dungeons.

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Originally Posted by linay

That's not what they've done for hard dungeons in this game. They're just set in the same location and have the same aesthetics, but the dungeon layout and some enemies are different.

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To be honest with you, I wouldn't mind if they did just scale up some older dungeons. I mean it's better than nothing.

I'd just like to see an upscaling system for a rotating daily dungeon that can make use of the better of the previous dungeons. Preferably with somewhat heightened difficulty.

Have you guys ever mapped for games (or similar activities?) I mapped a lot for classic DooM and even though it's a limited environment, boy did I spent time to work with the sourceports features; even an enthusiast like me ran out of ideas eventually, creativity fatigue is a thing I guess, and they showed how great dungeons can be with their past dozens of different themed dungeons.

I love to look around to see all the effort that were put in the dungeons. Sometimes it's easy to see when there is floodfill going on (e.g. Temple of Qarn: Some ceilings are literally floodfill one single texture over 500 m²), but then I wonder how many of you really looked how beautiful e.g. Sastasha is. The light settings, the colour of those, the geometry in the background, all done by hand. Rubble, single cobblestones placed in various angles, flora, all that is massive work and not some random automated process. (Maybed the cobblestone example, but they look too diverse to me). The textures have to made, VFX and SFX created and placed. And let's be honest: Only few people appreciate that. Most of you speedrun trough it, focussing on the main enemy in front of you, not even reading the notest in Haukke Manor or in the Great Library. But you want mass production of quality content in a short timespan, but always it's "not good enough" and "lackluster" anyways.

Spot the problem..

I'm good with this. Seeing Diadem reworked, the next phase of Ishgard Ishgard stuff implemented, two Trials added, the new raid phase, relic gear for both combat and crafting, etc more than makes up for it.

@Iinay
Uh yeah, and you think they couldn't have given us as well not just different enemies in a different location ? You clearly missed my point here.

Its lazy and uncreative to just reuse an existing dungeon, just add some different enemies/bosses in with eventually just higher numbers n change only slightly the dungeon layout by opening a path somewhere that you couldn't follow in the original for example, when compared to that could have been done also a complete new dungeon location.

But in return its cost effective and alot cheaper to recycle old content, than to create everytime complete new ones, so it's understandable why it was done in the first place, especially between ARR n HW times, where FF14 wasn't by far so successful, as it is by now, which is the timespan, where you see the most hard dungeon copies, while from SB on we see mostly none of them anymore until today. Thank god, that its so obvious, that making complete new dungeons are alot more interesting, than to copy everything just with harder versions


On the topic of scaling up dungeons, that would be for this game no solution as long you get forced by the game to play together with total noobs of lvl 16 eventually landing in Sastasha with nothing other to do than pressing the same w skills over n over...
Players are it which need to get upscaled, so that they can catch up quicker with the players that are far more progressed in the game, than they are.

If im a Lvl16 noob doing Sastasha for the first time, and the other three are like a lvl 40, lvl 70 n 1 lvl 80 playerr that the game picked out from roulettes to do the content with the noob, than should the game scale up the content and the players all to the highest level player, so that at least everyone can use the skills that they have learned to far., instead of criplling everyone down back to the boring noob stage where you can do barely anything.

Thats the reason why I often see people leave old content, because its boring compared to late game content with much furtheer progressed characters, and to solve that problem, it becomes essential that newer players need to get scaled up to the furthest progressed group member, so that the run makes fun for everyone without boring the hell out of the veterans, because wouldnt roulette exist, would nobody ever do old dungeons again, once being cleared.

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Originally Posted by MrKusakabe

Spot the problem.

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Consistent framing and highly constrained "variations". Done.

You may want to hide your Waldo better.

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Originally Posted by MrKusakabe

Spot the problem..

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People playing this game with only 30m of free time.

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Originally Posted by Kaiserdrache

@Iinay
Uh yeah, and you think they couldn't have given us as well not just different enemies in a different location ? You clearly missed my point here.

Its lazy and uncreative to just reuse an existing dungeon, just add some different enemies/bosses in with eventually just higher numbers n change only slightly the dungeon layout by opening a path somewhere that you couldn't follow in the original for example, when compared to that could have been done also a complete new dungeon location.

But in return its cost effective and alot cheaper to recycle old content, than to create everytime complete new ones, so it's understandable why it was done in the first place, especially between ARR n HW times, where FF14 wasn't by far so successful, as it is by now, which is the timespan, where you see the most hard dungeon copies, while from SB on we see mostly none of them anymore until today. Thank god, that its so obvious, that making complete new dungeons are alot more interesting, than to copy everything just with harder versions

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Efficiency with reuse of assets is not laziness, nor is it uncreative. Otherwise, all derivative works are uncreative and lazy.

Hopefully that means the dungeons we do get are really good then. Dungeons are my fav part of the game, i run them even when im out of daily bonuses for them.
I dont wanna get stale dungeons that i dread ever playing, looking at you ARR content. Maybe an unpopular opinion, but i thought SB was the peak of dungeon/trial content, so hopefully it feels like those.
The worst part about this is that the dungeon pool will be smaller and content *might* get repetitive, but if it's good then it shouldn't matter too much imo.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

I'm good with this. Seeing Diadem reworked, the next phase of Ishgard Ishgard stuff implemented, two Trials added, the new raid phase, relic gear for both combat and crafting, etc more than makes up for it.

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Plus it could give them extra time to deal with the Hrothgar/Viera hair/headgear problems. Only 1 dungeon every patch sucks, but if it allows them to deal with other needed things, I'm okay with it.

I love dungeons. I hate that they are making less of them but hope this means the ones they do make will be better. The problem with dungeons as a whole is they've made them mind numbingly easy. They even went back to nerf the good ARR dungeons. I get most people are casual players but current dungeon difficulty insults player's intelligence, yes even for the casual base.

^Wanderers Palace probably is the last time I actually had fun in a dungeon, avoiding insta-kill stabby tonberries was pretty fun. For the past 4 years, I've been basically avoiding doing dungeons. I'd rather do PvP for my tomes, it's more fun (despite PvP being not very good in this game)

Dungeons are pretty and often convey the lore in a living format, but once you've run it once or twice... there's just no real reason to, unless you're gear farming, which doesn't take long. By and large, I avoid dungeons too.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

The backgrounds and stuff are well made but all dungeons at the core are more or less the same..

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Dungeons are pretty and often convey the lore in a living format, but once you've run it once or twice... there's just no real reason to, unless you're gear farming, which doesn't take long. By and large, I avoid dungeons too.

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That's what saddens me about the dungeons we have. some have really well made environments that you don't get to explore. I did like what they did with the copied factory where you can enter the map after the raid to look for stuff inside. They could carry on and extend this idea to allow us to further explore the dungeon after we complete the duty and make different paths etc. The dungeon duty itself could be restricted to the linear path so that no one complains about having something like Toto-Rak maps. But once you're done, you can go back and do more stuff inside.

This is a shame, dungeons are my favourite content! I love casually exploring a new area that doesn't require very much learning to beat, or that many people to have a party ready for it.

I still have hope that someday we will get "extreme" dungeons as hard 4 man content.

But one per patch is still fine for me.

It honestly felt like a waste of resources having 2 new dungeons given how irrelevant dungeons become after running them the first time. It would be great if they instead work on a Challenge Mode/Mythic + type system to make running dungeons more appealing. Some of the dungeon designs are amazing and it feels like a waste in their current format.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Yeah, dungeons have been pretty dull for a while now, so hopefully we'd be getting something big that is hopefully more fun that eureka.

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Honestly, for me.. Dungeons and game play flow within the dungeons needs to change to make it worth repeating. I know i'll inevitably replay them through roulettes, but i only do that for the daily roulette bonus; I'd rather be excited to do the dungeons themselves though and have the roulette bonus as a reward for doing content i enjoy rather than slogging through things like i'm just checking off a list of things i have to do to not fall behind in the general progression of the game.

Eh. We've already seen the effort that goes into a single dungeon patch a la SB: Other than being visually prettier (Hells Lid, Ghimlyt dark etc), they don't really feel any different from two dungeon patches so roulette is going to be even dryer than it is now. Its a little disappointing that they announced we're getting less while also announcing that the playerbase continues to grow to record numbers.

Helluuuuuuuu

Hoping they further expand the things to do in the open world. I like the new FATE system. I wish they could do something like that with levequests. I prefer open world content over instanced.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

That's what saddens me about the dungeons we have. some have really well made environments that you don't get to explore. I did like what they did with the copied factory where you can enter the map after the raid to look for stuff inside. They could carry on and extend this idea to allow us to further explore the dungeon after we complete the duty and make different paths etc. The dungeon duty itself could be restricted to the linear path so that no one complains about having something like Toto-Rak maps. But once you're done, you can go back and do more stuff inside.

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Agreed, it's a pretty neat feature and I hope we see more of it.