What BLU got this Patch

So...no real point in playing BLU yet. Got it.

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

Ah, then I misunderstood. My mistake.

With that being said, I will voice a complaint that I have: Yoshi-P stated that he wanted to produce Blue Mage content that wouldn't lead to people being excluded from Duty Finder parties because they didn't have access to certain abilities and spells. And understandable goal. Yet, with 5.15's release, the ever essential Raise spell is gated behind completion of all 30 Carnival stages as opposed to being easily accessible like White Wind or Mighty Guard!

I'm not really sure why this is. Doom I can understand being gated: when it works, it's pretty ridiculous. Moon Flute even more so given its massive buff. But a Raise? Let alone one with a five minute cooldown? That's kind of an essential part of a Healer's toolkit and already has a massive drawback attached to it! Why make it even more arduous for people to get access to? If anything, I'd suggest a powerful attack be placed behind there instead to offer incentive for people to do the content but not necessarily leave them missing an absolutely vital ability. How many people going for the Morbol mount do you think would be pleased to find out that their Healers (and maybe even DPS) can't raise people because they never bothered to get Angel Whisper?

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Ironically one of the reasons they didnt want to put it in the DF was they didn't want people rocking up not knowing necessary spells, now theyve "made" hard content and they are the ones putting prohibitively stupid requirements on essential spells

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

Ah, then I misunderstood. My mistake.

With that being said, I will voice a complaint that I have: Yoshi-P stated that he wanted to produce Blue Mage content that wouldn't lead to people being excluded from Duty Finder parties because they didn't have access to certain abilities and spells. An understandable goal. Yet, with 5.15's release, the ever essential Raise spell is gated behind completion of all 30 Carnival stages as opposed to being easily accessible like White Wind or Mighty Guard!

I'm not really sure why this is. Doom I can understand being gated: when it works, it's pretty ridiculous. Moon Flute even more so given its massive buff. But a Raise? Let alone one with a five minute cooldown? That's kind of an essential part of a Healer's toolkit and already has a massive drawback attached to it! Why make it even more arduous for people to get access to? If anything, I'd suggest a powerful attack be placed behind there instead to offer incentive for people to do the content but not necessarily leave them missing an absolutely vital ability. How many people going for the Morbol mount do you think would be pleased to find out that their Healers (and maybe even DPS) can't raise people because they never bothered to get Angel Whisper?

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Wait really? I haven't gotten about to the game today and expected the Raise to be from that Angel in Amdapor HM or something similar. Glad I did most of the fights before they put in the Brush of Death debuff.

Checking out the new raise spell since it was mentioned here, just because I can, endless well of salt lol- we were told, one of the reasons, that blue mage needed to be this way because of balance and that they wanted us to have the monster spells the real deal experience.

Angel Whisper in FF has either been a reraise or a raise with full health and status cleanse. Here in FFXIV it's a oGCD (300 second) raise that brings you to the weakness state.

https://i.imgur.com/0cW8auo.png

Source for Angel Whisper-
FFT - blue magic spell that grants auto life and heal (re-raise plus heal).
FFT A2 - same
FFVII - Restores to max and removes statuses.

I get why they did it, for balance reasons for their PF content... but then when I get why they did it I hate it. Maybe hate is too strong of a word but this cycle of reasons given to us followed by seemingly opposite design actions taken (since the start) is just a cycle of 'but y, that doesn't make sense, but y tho'. If it was to be original to the spells then why are they balanced, shouldn't they be /at least/ as fun as the original? Ideally all the spells should be 'more' fun than their original, especially if the job is going to be locked up behind walls, at least that's my thought. Anyway, as we all know - reasons given, but why tho?

https://media.giphy.com/media/fUqfaP...icZH/giphy.gif

I just don't understand why Blue Mage can't be in duty finder if they can place these type of restrictions. It is literally a dps that has some support skills and what not. It isn't crazy enough to trump the other classes at all. It is one the gripes I have with this game and I hate seeing people who wanted to main BLU to get shafted in general. I wonder if it's difficult to rehaul BLU as an actual job.

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Originally Posted by Reneo

I just don't understand why Blue Mage can't be in duty finder if they can place these type of restrictions. It is literally a dps that has some support skills and what not. It isn't crazy enough to trump the other classes at all. It is one the gripes I have with this game and I hate seeing people who wanted to main BLU to get shafted in general. I wonder if it's difficult to rehaul BLU as an actual job.

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It was hyped up to be a broken job with a bunch of OP spells, which was why they called it "limited". That is not what we got and it is not what we appear to be getting ever. It is limited, but not in the way that the devs made us think. In fact, it is limited in every possible way to seemingly make it as unappealing as humanly possible. They either need to make it a full job or make is as broken as they claimed it would be.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Checking out the new raise spell since it was mentioned here, just because I can, endless well of salt lol- we were told, one of the reasons, that blue mage needed to be this way because of balance and that they wanted us to have the monster spells the real deal experience.

Angel Whisper in FF has either been a reraise or a raise with full health and status cleanse. Here in FFXIV it's a oGCD (300 second) raise that brings you to the weakness state.

https://i.imgur.com/0cW8auo.png

Source for Angel Whisper-
FFT - blue magic spell that grants auto life and heal (re-raise plus heal).
FFT A2 - same
FFVII - Restores to max and removes statuses.

I get why they did it, for balance reasons for their PF content... but then when I get why they did it I hate it. Maybe hate is too strong of a word but this cycle of reasons given to us and actions taken is just a cycle of 'but y, that doesn't make sense, but y tho'. If it was to be original to the spells then why are they balanced, shouldn't they be /at least/ as fun as the original? Ideally all the spells should be 'more' fun than their original, specially if the job is going to be locked up behind walls, at least that's my thought. Anyway, as we all know - reasons given, but why tho?

https://media.giphy.com/media/fUqfaP...icZH/giphy.gif

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Thing is, BLUE being a limited job is outside of balance reasons. No one is going to cared if BLUE was the OP job to do old content solo or with a few friends. BLUE was the perfect opportunity for crazy stuff we don't usually have, like eureka with the extra skills.

I totally get you.

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Originally Posted by Nighthawky2010

See...thats what bothers me about BLU. It was supposed to be a solo job...solo content but yet we have to form groups to get spells in dungeons & trial. It would been great to take BLU into PotD or use it in Squadrons.

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If they TRULY wanted BLU to be a solo class, they could have just made the instanced duty versions of the primals MEANT for solo fighting. They had done it a couple times before in the MSQ, they could have certainly done it for BLU.

That isn't to say I think BLU should be a solo class, because I think half the fun on an MMO is playing with others... but at the same time, you can't solo the entire game (pre-SHB has no trust system, and trials did not have a trust system either pretty sure). You can solo about as much of the content as any other class as you can with BLU, so the point of a "solo class" is moot to begin with. (I don't know if I worded that in a way that makes sense, but here's hoping I did.)

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Thing is, BLUE being a limited job is outside of balance reasons. No one is going to cared if BLUE was the OP job to do old content solo or with a few friends. BLUE was the perfect opportunity for crazy stuff we don't usually have, like eureka with the extra skills.

I totally get you.

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Yeah honestly I rode this roller coaster when it was first announced this way, as a limited job and I was like.. oh man... I had /really/ wanted to main blue mage, I just had a blast maining blue in FFXI. But I was like "you know what.. if I can take this job and solo things I couldn't normally, farm things that'd be a bit awkward or impossible to do normally, just do some crazy awesome things that make me feel awesome . . maybe it's not so bad". I've even thought if they could really enjoy both spectrums of nonsense and HUGE spell lists as well as balance and DF, via concepts like chained/unchained and advanced job.

Rather... instead of only disappointment once when it couldn't be DF-able I got it twice when it also didn't feel powerful or given the set of spells and powers that would be that engaging to combine.. Then I guess every time after as they continue to dig into that hole, like synched no echo 8 man savage content via PF no less. Just took some things I didn't want to do and smashed it into some other things I didn't want to do with the trappings/theme of something I was/want to be excited for lol.

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Originally Posted by MOZZYSTAR

If they TRULY wanted BLU to be a solo class, they could have just made the instanced duty versions of the primals MEANT for solo fighting. They had done it a couple times before in the MSQ, they could have certainly done it for BLU.

That isn't to say I think BLU should be a solo class, because I think half the fun on an MMO is playing with others... but at the same time, you can't solo the entire game (pre-SHB has no trust system, and trials did not have a trust system either pretty sure). You can solo about as much of the content as any other class as you can with BLU, so the point of a "solo class" is moot to begin with. (I don't know if I worded that in a way that makes sense, but here's hoping I did.)

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I had thought Blue Mage would be the opportunity to solo the content that is kind of unsolo-able without the devs having to remodel it as much. Like letting blue mage go into Eureka and just womp it up, go into the old (strict use on the word old) savages and let players experience the story without having to deal with all the stress. There is content that's old but also still a bit of a pain to solo (depending on job that's more or less true, Paladin and Red Mage are pretty great solo jobs). Blue Mage getting you to the top of the Palace of the Dead floor, but not taking the leaderboard from other jobs that did it the harder way. An example of a spell I thought would work well on Blue Mage as a solo king was molt/mirage concept where you molt/create a double that your currently attached marker sticks to and takes some damage as well (so like a silly example is how that goobbue boss that sucks players up was a road block for soloing content that you couldn't do enough damage fast enough to skip it, well besides having pretty great damage the blue mage could molt on the spot instead of failing the content).

I think there is a lot of things that a solo-king could do. Including epic content like SenorPatty mentions on the next page, where because of your OPness everything else is turned up to 11 (but you can still go back to normal content as a god-king).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Checking out the new raise spell since it was mentioned here, just because I can, endless well of salt lol- we were told, one of the reasons, that blue mage needed to be this way because of balance and that they wanted us to have the monster spells the real deal experience.

Angel Whisper in FF has either been a reraise or a raise with full health and status cleanse. Here in FFXIV it's a oGCD (300 second) raise that brings you to the weakness state.

https://i.imgur.com/0cW8auo.png

Source for Angel Whisper-
FFT - blue magic spell that grants auto life and heal (re-raise plus heal).
FFT A2 - same
FFVII - Restores to max and removes statuses.

I get why they did it, for balance reasons for their PF content... but then when I get why they did it I hate it. Maybe hate is too strong of a word but this cycle of reasons given to us followed by seemingly opposite design actions taken (sine the start) is just a cycle of 'but y, that doesn't make sense, but y tho'. If it was to be original to the spells then why are they balanced, shouldn't they be /at least/ as fun as the original? Ideally all the spells should be 'more' fun than their original, specially if the job is going to be locked up behind walls, at least that's my thought. Anyway, as we all know - reasons given, but why tho?

https://media.giphy.com/media/fUqfaP...icZH/giphy.gif

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You have every right to hate it man

Their words: BLU gonna be OP. Everything. Gonna be able to solo E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G.

What we get: BLU gonna be somewhat kinda-ish OP not-really but it's close. I swear it's close. Nah, not even. Sorry, too OP, had to nerf.

EDIT: And you know what this makes me realize? All they should've done is essentially create content AROUND that OP-ness. It's like doing the final extra dgns in a rpg after you went out of your way to collect the best weapons and farm the best skills. Those type of dgns are catered around that and anything less means you'll get destroyed.

Why didn't they just do that instead?

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

You have every right to hate it man

Their words: BLU gonna be OP. Everything. Gonna be able to solo E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G.

What we get: BLU gonna be somewhat kinda-ish OP not-really but it's close. I swear it's close. Nah, not even. Sorry, too OP, had to nerf.

EDIT: And you know what this makes me realize? All they should've done is essentially create content AROUND that OP-ness. It's like doing the final extra dgns in a rpg after you went out of your way to collect the best weapons and farm the best skills. Those type of dgns are catered around that and anything less means you'll get destroyed.

Why didn't they just do that instead?

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the thing about being op is not even true, blu is op when you have all the skill and can get some nice combo.... but before this? don't dream on it.... plus a lot of skill are here for justify the blue carnival like sonic boom.... that is simply water jet in wind version.

Blu is op, going to need to be solo job and not do group content.
Can’t clear first set of mobs in a lvl 50 dng solo.
Huh. What’s op about a 220 (dropping to 110) aoe attack?
Feels like I have more 220 aoe attacks than I know what to do with. It’s not even an op potency.
Most combos do t even work as the trash pick immunity or are just immune to the stat rebuff needed to combo.
Lvling blu towards 60 has reminded me why I didn’t carry on withr it and the spells once I hit 50. (Only had half the spells at 50 but was enough for me to call it job well done once I called)

To add even more salt, WHY THE HELL CAN'T BLU ENTER PoTD SOLO/FIXED GROUP? what purpose does that serve it is long outdated and relegated to levelling alt jobs up, locking it out just harms Blu more. :/

Also after getting every skill, i'll say this i have fun with new skills but novelty wears off fast i'd like Blu to be made df able, every reasoning they have come up with has been crushed by their actions with this patch.

As for the morbol mount i laughed looking at requirements and said welp bet that be rarer than the ranked pvp ones XD.

I really like the new Sophia skill
https://i.imgur.com/HqZeqiE.png

This game gets a lot right, but Blue Mage is an example of an unwillingness to accept when they get stuff wrong. The whole implementation should have been scrapped and rebooted. Instead they’re trying to reanimate the corpse of a dead job by luring people in with the possibility of earning a Morbol mount.

If you’re not going to rebuild it, just let BLU die and never do another limited job again.

The game play of Blue is lacking too it really needs some OGCDs to be somewhat interesting

But at this point they should just make another blue mage thats a regular job and leave this limited job gimick to this version of Blue and nothing else

As someone who defended BLU in the past due to seeing the potential it had even in its limited form, I'm disappointed that the development team have decided to double down on the more controversial aspects of the job.

I want to play around with it, though I don't foresee being able to find seven other players to team up with who want to tackle something as difficult Alexander Savage as an all BLU party. So many of the abilities are practically useless outside of very niche situations...and even then, they just lack the sort of 'oomph' that was hyped up when we were told that BLU was going to be really overpowered.

I was having a blast today, can't wait to continue tomorrow, the only problem for me is that I stopped raiding after t8, would be kinda funny to get the first clear as a bluemage.

There is nothing OP about BLU, the requirements for getting the Morbol - which to my understanding was a highly-requested mount - are absolutely ridiculous and are just a BS means to artificially increase the content's longevity.
I'm still salty about that "Brush with Death" debuff. Way to restrict the class even more, SE.

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Originally Posted by Destati

There is nothing OP about BLU, the requirements for getting the Morbol - which to my understanding was a highly-requested mount - are absolutely ridiculous and are just a BS means to artificially increase the content's longevity.
I'm still salty about that "Brush with Death" debuff. Way to restrict the class even more, SE.

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why do you need a sucide skill, just use aoes to kill the enemies or level 5 death which won't slow the party down because they have to wait people to run back to the party.

I like the content, and I like how they rebalanced the BLU skills.

My only complaint is there are only three canes for glamour, and we can't dye the AF still??

Running the old stuff as BLU is fun and I love the challenge of some of it... but this would have been the perfect time to add some nice glamour stuff for BLU... Shiva cane, Titan cane? Come on... give me glamour options!!!

Now that the patch has landed, have any of the changes made it so that you don't need to beg friends (if you have any in game to begin with)/form statics/wait around for ages in party finder in order to unlock all the spells?

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Originally Posted by purgatori

Now that the patch has landed, have any of the changes made it so that you don't need to beg friends (if you have any in game to begin with)/form statics/wait around for ages in party finder in order to unlock all the spells?

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Still need others for the harder ones.

So. First impressions. Morbol mount is as good as not being there. It's not PUG'able at all.
I understand that people are still new and not everyone has all the skills (still, judging by the combat sounds at least half of our raid had all ARR primal stuff), but i am not sure where the idea of BLU OP'ness comes from. I've run through all Alexander Normal recently and we melted things. We skipped Tornado Phase on Pepsiman, we skipped the entire detach murder robots phase on Brute Justice. With all BLU team we... didn't quite manage that. Also we wiped on Pepsiman. Because Surprise! only 1 person had Angel Whisper (but more on that later) and they actually died first. Whoops.

Thoughts and what not.
I've mentioned this before, but Loom and Cactguard should totally be an intstacast abilities.
Mimicry is a lot worse than i initially thought. The way it works is just stupid. Changing it, so you can just switch between stances would be super helpful. Or at least being able to just go to the relevant class guild in the city and tagging the guildmaster to get the buff.
Healing stuff being more or less uselss outside of Healer Mimicry is bad.
Tanking mimicry is hilariously bad. ytho.jpg
Gating Angel Whisper behind 30 stages of Masked Carnivale is just stupid. Raise is rather important ability in normal content, and doubly so for BLU, considering how underpowered BLU is in general. It should be accessible a lot sooner. Also say hello to 5 mins recast.
Combo skills that do not work, because hello status immunity.

I can't say i am dissapointed. Baffled and confused maybe.

P.S. If i understood the math correctly Surpanakha is essentially 1400 potency on 2 min recast. That's awesome.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

why do you need a sucide skill, just use aoes to kill the enemies or level 5 death which won't slow the party down because they have to wait people to run back to the party.

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Self-Destruct and Final Sting were used a lot for cheesing things in the Masked Carnivale (as long as the last enemy died with you, it still counted as cleared).

I mean, the real question is why BLU needs THREE suicide skills.

BLU has...issues when it comes to tanking.

They have lower HP then tanks even when accounting for the 20% temporary buff from Devour and they have no personal mitigation cooldowns other then Diamondback as Cactguard can only be targeted on other players. Even with Bad Breath kept up constantly along with Mighty Guard and tank mimicry I'm nearly getting one-shot by tank busters even from normal mode raid bosses.

Their only way to provoke requires melee range which makes tank swapping when it's needed problematic.

Their damage output is laughably low due to how severe the damage reduction from Mighty Guard is.

They feel more like a "master of none" then overpowered like they were implying against anything their CC and instakills don't work on.

C-can we give feedback on Limited Jobs yet guys? Has the job been out long enough that everyone else can see what a bad idea the whole thing is? Or must we wait another year before asking SE to fix it?

I rather distinctly recall being told that, of course Blue Mage is going to be great and the whole idea is awesome! Then when it came out and sucked, I was told that it'll be awesome with the frequent updates and huge swathes of engaging and well thought-out content it'd be receiving. What's the excuse this time guys? PS3 limitations? "It'll totally be better next update"? At what point is it acceptable to say that, "yeah no the whole concept was flawed from the start"?

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

why do you need a sucide skill, just use aoes to kill the enemies or level 5 death which won't slow the party down because they have to wait people to run back to the party.

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Uhhhh, because sometimes I just like to blow myself up for the hell of it? It was a fun thing to do. Kinda turned off from using it completely now because of that stupid thing.

Also that BS debuff made trying to pop a certain SHB S rank a nightmare.

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Originally Posted by Destati

Uhhhh, because sometimes I just like to blow myself up for the hell of it? It was a fun thing to do.

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There's a millenial joke to make here, but it's 4 AM and my brain's still back in bed.

Also, do you know what i want? Actual stats on our weapon. The only difference between our weapon at 60 (800 Allied seals Bomb cane) and any other BLU stick is 2 Materia slots. So, hurray for those 24 substats. And that surely does not impact BLU's damage at all.

The canes don't have damage stats so you can go back and poke low-level enemies without killing them in case you missed a spell.

I am talking about said canes actually having appropriate level/ILvl INT and what not on them.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

The canes don't have damage stats so you can go back and poke low-level enemies without killing them in case you missed a spell.

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That's not a reason at all. You can Sardine Slap anything (or even auto attack), draw out your weapon and patiently wait. And most of low level mobs spells kinda appear in higher level versions of these (Bomb Toss, Scorpion tail thing)

Anyway, I gave it a go yesterday and with FC and Rest bonus, I made it quite quickly from 50 to 58 I think. I had some fun looking for spells with two people I found and this made me get good XP. So I'm not really in a position to talk about level capped BLU in 5.1 but in theory it does not change from 50 capped, right? You get a bunch of Masked Carnivale, "incentive" to get on group content for spells/achievements and... that's it?
Even without burning through the content (as I see some people already have 80 spells and all), that's no improvement on the previous BLU at all. That's more of the same thing with a questionably different packaging. For me it is still uninspired, not interesting gameplay, a wasted opportunity for something more solid (limited or not), and likely to be put down in a few days weeks until the next addition (if I bother this time).

Looking at the spells I'm... disappointed. It (again) boils down to same potencies AoE or Crowd Control that won't work on instanced content, with a few good additions (I like Whistle for instance, or the interaction between Dropsy and the Ice Cone thingy).

All in all, BLU is still not proving to be that overpowered so that they had to make it limited.
Does it feel like a legacy Blue Mage? Yes. But that's a shame it had to be restricted to its own gameplay when I'm pretty sure most players would have prefered a watered down but traditional job. Or maybe no BLU at all.

Got to level 60, working on getting all the spells. Almost there. Wanted to get stuff done before saying anything, but my opinion is largely the same as 4.5 BLU. It has it's high points, but I'd still much rather it be an actual job. The highlight of this BLU patch is definitely the ability to pick a role and the role-based spells that go with them. On the downside: everything else. It's more of the same. More strange 220 aoe spells, more carnivale, and a PF interface and blu log that don't add much in the way of playable content. Like others have said, why did we need to wait for this to decide if BLU was any good?

Ideally, we'll see it become a full, unlimited job eventually. If thats absolutely not an option? Please, please actually make it a single-player job. Make it as broken as it needs to be in order to restrict it from group content altogether. Make it max level and let it do all the content in the game so people can actually use it for things besides a mini-game.

My absolute biggest gripe is that I can't participate in story content as BLU in a strong, story-driven game. Classes and jobs are meant to be a conduit for experiencing a game's story and world. Is collecting spells a fundamental aspect of BLU? Yeah! But never the primary aspect. In any other FF game w/ a blue mage, you collect spells to help you achieve a greater goal. To save the day and live the story. In FFXIV, you collect spells just for the sake of it. It's fun for a while, but sad that it can't be taken further.

I feel like the tank mimicry needs to also give a HP increase of like...30% minimum.

They only have negligibly lower defense then a proper tank, but having 20% more passive mitigation in exchange for 10K+ less HP is not nearly enough to make up for it.

Even at full HP I'm nearly dying from tank busters in normal Alexander raids which feels a little wrong when I'm in full 270 gear.

I'm enjoying blue mage alot, it's so much!

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

I'm enjoying blue mage alot, it's so much!

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Good for you man, want to explain whats fun about it?

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

There's a millenial joke to make here, but it's 4 AM and my brain's still back in bed.

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It's 5 AM and I'm just going to knock down this low-hanging fruit:

Ok, Boomer.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

Ironically one of the reasons they didnt want to put it in the DF was they didn't want people rocking up not knowing necessary spells, now theyve "made" hard content and they are the ones putting prohibitively stupid requirements on essential spells

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Blue is full of conflicting messages from the Devs:

-Its a solo job that is not good for group play vs. most of its skills are locked behind group content and the new "content" for it is also now purely for groups
- it has to be solo and cant join normal runs because its too overpowered vs. skills are mostly weak and a lot of the OP ones cant be used against a lot of mobs anyway..
- People would be going into content without the necessary skills and would get hate for that vs. lets create a log that needs 8 blue mages who also need certain skills to even do it.
-Blue should all be about collecting spells from monsters, that is his identity vs. getting skills from totems and needing to do quests..

Its a mess imo.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Blue is full of conflicting messages from the Devs:

-Its a solo job that is not good for group play vs. most of its skills are logged behind group content and the new "content" for it is also now purely for groups
- it has to be solo and cant join normal runs because its too overpowered vs. skills are mostly weak and a lot of the OP ones cant be used against a lot of mobs anyway..
- People would be going into content without the necessary skills and would get hate for that vs. lets create a log that needs 8 blue mages who also need certain skills to even do it..(and even the carneval needs certain skills to survive certain stuff)
-Blue should all be about collecting spells from monsters, that is his identity vs. getting skills from totems and needing to do quests..

Its a mess imo.

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Talking about contradictions. BLU was meant to be OP, yet the mount is locked behind something the devs are considering a massive challenge... Beating all the old final raid bosses, something that normal classes did, yet beating them all on the OP class is harder... okay.