The Frontlines Premade issue has not been fixed.

Since it's not clear, the problem isn't that premades exist, it's that queue abuse makes it so premades don't have to fight each other.

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Originally Posted by Rhais

This is such an idiotic sentiment. Not letting people form parties in a team based mode within an MMO isn't solving any problem, it's creating one.
There was no problem to begin with, premades were never a problem that needed to be dealt with.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

If you want to solo queue and not socialize, that's your prerogative. Doesn't mean everyone else has to.

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You can still form small 4 man teams. That's perfectly adequate enough to play with a few friends.

Moving mass players to 1 GC and 1-2-3 sync queuing solo to stack win ratio's in ones favour and rofl stomp pug groups is douche baggery no matter how you try to sugar coat it.

SE clearly thought the 8 man's were a problem, so they took steps to prevent it. Players now want to circumvent that so that leaves the last option - enforce freelancer at all times.

Good. All the changes did were piss off people who loved pvp the most. Really sucks being restricted to who we can play with in a casual game mode. My casual linkshell is really quiet nowadays because what used an easy way to play with a group of friends is now complicated because people pick and choose certain friends they like the most. These changes are literally segmenting a significant part of the community.

People don't lose to premades. People lose to premades because they're bad and don't care to interact with over avid pvpers in a SOCIAL MMORPG. They only care about the fact they aren't getting maximum rewards (wolf marks, wins, etc)

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

Both Mael and Flames have groups that go in together. But Adders have the most that go most often. I know stomps are not always premades, but unless there's two groups of premades against each other, it's almost always a stomp in favor of said premade. I've led matches, many times to wins. I'm away you can herd and help PUGs. I have more faith in them than some that think the opposite in this topic, but I've also seen my fair share of people lose interest after being stomped constantly by premades when they are queueing.



People keep saying others don't care or don't try or don't want to take charge, but they don't want to be the one to change things and rather give up on everyone else. And it's mainly FL that has this problem. Feast and RW have the same people trying out those modes and people try a lot more in those. The difference is that queue abuse is harder for those two modes.

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Your assumption it's always pre-made is what is toxic for your team. Again get some more pvp experience under your belt, because if they're pre-made as you seem to think, they can die just the same as anyone else. Their timing can be off just like any other GC alliance. It's not impossible to beat them with a PUG if that PUG knows the ropes and they do the objectives. With that hanging over you, you've lost before you even started by blaming it's all pre-made.

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

Your assumption it's always pre-made is what is toxic for your team. Again get some more pvp experience under your belt, because if they're pre-made as you seem to think, they can die just the same as anyone else. Their timing can be off just like any other GC alliance. It's not impossible to beat them with a PUG if that PUG knows the ropes and they do the objectives. With that hanging over you, you've lost before you even started by blaming it's all pre-made.

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Again, it's not just an assumption, I'm literally in VC with them. Obviously not doing the games, cause that would be cheating. I leave/mute when queue pops.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

You can still form small 4 man teams. That's perfectly adequate enough to play with a few friends.

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Says who exactly? I don't know about you, but I have a great deal more than 3 other friends.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

SE clearly thought the 8 man's were a problem, so they took steps to prevent it. Players now want to circumvent that so that leaves the last option - enforce freelancer at all times.

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Right, so allowing 8-man groups throughout 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, and 5.0 wasn't a problem until right around when Garo was ending, then it became a problem? Big thonk.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Says who exactly? I don't know about you, but I have a great deal more than 3 other friends.



Right, so allowing 8-man groups throughout 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, and 5.0 wasn't a problem until right around when Garo was ending, then it became a problem? Big thonk.

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As a 100% introverted INTJ even "I" can agree with this.
Because who the frick only has 3 friends to PVP with???

8 needs to be returned stat, dedicated PVP teams or "NOT"
And now the majority of those friends still login, but most of them just sort of BS around housing, and not playing, pissed and/or irritated because solo queing is simply not the same / feels kinda pointless. You go in to play WITH FRIENDS, not solo que to be on the same GC. *Waves at ppl from a distance you no longer are friends with thanks to SE*

The Aether/Crystal DC split was bad but it was fixable.

This? This is not. People are going to drop subs, and lots of them.
8 person groups has existed since 2.x like Atreus said.

Literally the stupidest move SE has done yet, even worse then the Blue Mage introduction.

If they go in and force free lancer 100% even for solo'ers thats just going to alienate the rest of the PVPers who WERE solo queing with friends of the same GC
The suggestion on OP is to kill an already dying feature in FF?. Um no. Forcing Free lancer for solo'ing too is not even remotely close to a good idea.

^ This. Premades are not the issue it's the community I've played with several different premade ive never been in one that was just playing to crush pugs. Imagine complaining about people playing with friends in a MMO it is like this on Feast as well players complain cause they cant have it easy there has been so much demand to release rewards that were limited. If you are losing get better improve its that simple. Second VC is not the end all be all the ranked team mode I've played without VC amd stomped teams of good players within the community that were using comms and vice verse I've used comms and lossed. Same in FL I've beaten premade with comms without and with as well as lossed with and without. You dont need VC to communicate well this point is proven even further by the feasts limited options to communicate we cant even talk in the game mode lol. Let us play our game modes and stop trying to take it away from the people that truly love the PvP in this game.

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Originally Posted by _Azura_

I don't see why premades are getting all this negativity when Maelstrom basically does the same thing with less steps. Frontline standings show Mael as the dominating GC because word gets around that "if you know how to pvp, queue Mael". Mael is basically a premade without pre forming a group. Even players that freelance and match into another GC may give up because they aren't on Mael.

Why blame premades when the lack of skill and compliance is the issue? Most 72s have entire parties without healers and people that refuse to switch to much needed roles that just end up feeding points, there is people that go AFK for easy rewards, players that are botting, people that go off solo, alliances that don't pay attention to the score and tunnel the losing team just because they are closer in proximity.

I've had friends kicked from the duty for PvPing even though our team was winning, the party just wanted to "guard the node" in Seal Rock. I've had friends reprimanded and verbally harassed because they tried organising objectives for our party playing with PUGs.

Unfortunately, players with these mindsets are far too common which drives players that want to win and want to improve to form a premade. But most importantly, the best part about playing with a premade is playing with your friends, why keep limiting party sizes in an MMO?

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^ This I mean (don't use this much)

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

They all sit in VC and gloat about how they stomp PUGs. It's not about being better players. Even they admit there are better ones that aren't in their group.

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The experienced players don't gloat. Only 4 to 6 experienced players are in at a group at any given time and the rest are new players. Its usually the new players who say things like how easy FL can be with coordination and effort. The experienced players teach new players humility, respect, as well as how to improve at Frontlines.

Isn't admitting that there are better players in their group a sign of humility? As in they are aware of their own weaknesses and either looking to improve or compensating to win (either or is fine since its a PvP game and the point is to win).

Again I doubt anyone would be against a mode that matches pre vs pre only.

As I had said asap the patch notes where released premades, those who played in premade would go in full panic mode cause they lost the spoon.

Also it's funny bringing up skill when we talk about FL's.
Looking forward seeing the solo/team ranking on feast of those who claim it's skill that matters and not premade advantages. (That is if they don't avoid ranked feast like the plague.)

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Originally Posted by Saintly

Again I doubt anyone would be against a mode that matches pre vs pre only.

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Back when there was only Chaos the highest amount of premade players I saw at the same time was 16 and that isnt even enough to make 1 match happen even if they brought back 24 player matches :P Yes the people could make times when they would agree to queue against each other but that would seem to require alot of work to make pops happen o.o Also would there be any rewards in these "premade vs premade" queues? Cause that would be just asking for people to just trade quick wins/rewards against each other.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

Moving mass players to 1 GC and 1-2-3 sync queuing solo to stack win ratio's in ones favour and rofl stomp pug groups is douche baggery no matter how you try to sugar coat it.

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PUGs that queue into PvP and do zero effort just to get rewards is also douche baggery no matter how you try to sugar coat it.

I premade to stay away from a full party of these PUGs. There should be no excuse for this type of gameplay.

Chaos premades dont use voice or chat,maximum what we have its "SANDWICH ALERT <se.11>" and we dont play objective,we just do pvp in pvp.
Btw most of time 4 people more that enouth to win 8\10 macthes in 72 because other people just bad

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

Moving mass players to 1 GC and 1-2-3 sync queuing solo to stack win ratio's in ones favour and rofl stomp pug groups is douche baggery no matter how you try to sugar coat it.

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Okay, here's the thing. You're not wrong. It absolutely is.

However, playing with PUGS is absolutely awful. I'll take full premades or a stacked alliance over PUGS, sorry.

You can play with friends without having to Grand Company stack with 24 people. You do NOT have to be on the same team to play with people. Just like playing a board game, card game, fighting game, racing game or whatever. If the goal is to have good competition as I'm reading it would be better matches to separate teams and go Premade vs Premade. If people are willing to Q sync together, why are people not willing to Q sync against each other?

So, let's not twist it. We know the majority goal is to use a loophole, have 90% win rates and eat people for dinner. This was not a necessity to people when 8 man premades were possible. Yes, they dominated but not to that level. I could join in on the fun of doing that too...but its pretty grey area and not healthy for PvP overall. Bring back 8 man premades or yeah just rework grand company system perhaps to all freelancers. 4 Man premades is not the best situation, but it's not totally "omg I can't play with friends"

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Originally Posted by Saintly

Also it's funny bringing up skill when we talk about FL's.
Looking forward seeing the solo/team ranking on feast of those who claim it's skill that matters and not premade advantages. (That is if they don't avoid ranked feast like the plague.)

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Don't you bring the epeen measuring stick to this thread. Especially when the game is focused on teamwork gameplay. Ranking boards in Aether nowadays is irrelevant thanks to win traders and those who sell wins. You probably don't immerse yourself in Aether PvP community enough to know that.

There is premade advantages, you're right about that. It's a team of people that want to win where PUGs you have a mixed bag of people that do want to win / don't care. I played in different Data Centers where PUGs actually can fight back against premades. Just because Aether PUGs are trash, why do everyone else has to suffer for their incompetence?

Premades losing freelancer que feels like an oversight to me, I doubt that'll stay

Forcing Freelancer on everyone is an incredibly bad idea.
The entire reason we have this situation in the first place is because no one wants to deal with the indolence of people who refuse to even look at Squeenix's own playguide (That has a button to bring it up IN-GAME mind you), nor do they want to risk upsetting these people and getting reported for trying to get them to do even basic things like build meter and keep gcds rolling or have the map open.
I believe if people had to choose between forced random pvp and peace of mind, most people would choose peace of mind.

Oh well, i did prove my point so no point arguing with anyone anymore for me. :)
If anything i'd vote even for 24 man premades to be allowed if they can pull that.

I just hope that they ain't gonna allow duos or anything in ranked Feast since its currently the only PvP that player skill matters.

Anyway, one way or another i highly doubt that they care about NA or EU players opinions.
So lets just wait and see what JP players decide.

LE: Let the new season begin already.

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Originally Posted by BrianRicardo

You can play with friends without having to Grand Company stack with 24 people. You do NOT have to be on the same team to play with people. Just like playing a board game, card game, fighting game, racing game or whatever. If the goal is to have good competition as I'm reading it would be better matches to separate teams and go Premade vs Premade. If people are willing to Q sync together, why are people not willing to Q sync against each other?

So, let's not twist it. We know the majority goal is to use a loophole, have 90% win rates and eat people for dinner. This was not a necessity to people when 8 man premades were possible. Yes, they dominated but not to that level. I could join in on the fun of doing that too...but its pretty grey area and not healthy for PvP overall. Bring back 8 man premades or yeah just rework grand company system perhaps to all freelancers. 4 Man premades is not the best situation, but it's not totally "omg I can't play with friends"

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rare brian post

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Says who exactly? I don't know about you, but I have a great deal more than 3 other friends.



Right, so allowing 8-man groups throughout 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, and 5.0 wasn't a problem until right around when Garo was ending, then it became a problem? Big thonk.

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Really it wasn't a problem during Slaughter on Aether, revisionist history much. Or during shatter on Aether either really no problem at all. It has always been a problem. Its just usually they get bored and stop queing and stuff evens out.




Also why aren't the same people so upset about this arguing for premades in solo que feast? Why because they know it would be unbalanced.


I don't think premades need to be lowered. We have a scaling reward system already it should have just been implemented for que with parties of 8 being baseline. As party gets smaller and smaller rewards increase. Which means a team of 8 most likely going to win would get as much as a single person queing. The 8 man gets their win and feel good slap on the back the solo que knows he got slapped around but got the same reward.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Really it wasn't a problem during Slaughter on Aether, revisionist history much. Or during shatter on Aether either really no problem at all. It has always been a problem. Its just usually they get bored and stop queing and stuff evens out.

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You're not exactly providing anything more factual in terms of the "history of Frontline". Full parties were not removed for several expansions, several updates, and several map additions. That is factual.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Also why aren't the same people so upset about this arguing for premades in solo que feast? Why because they know it would be unbalanced.

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Easy. Because Feast already has several ways to play it. Solo queue ranked, light party ranked and custom games, and training mode which allows bringing a partner (which is more influential than one 8-man party in a 72-player game).

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Originally Posted by Atreus

You're not exactly providing anything more factual in terms of the "history of Frontline". Full parties were not removed for several expansions, several updates, and several map additions. That is factual.



Easy. Because Feast already has several ways to play it. Solo queue ranked, light party ranked and custom games, and training mode which allows bringing a partner (which is more influential than one 8-man party in a 72-player game).

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Your side is acting like premades were never a problem. I gave examples from just one data center. Because nothing was done doesn't change the fact it wasn't an issue at the time. SE isn't exactly the most active dev in this type of game play.





For your second point that sounds way better then any suggestion I have seen from either side. They should be split up like feast. Solo random teams for one que and premade teams for another. I am sure no one could argue against that.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Your side is acting like premades were never a problem. I gave examples from just one data center. Because nothing was done doesn't change the fact it wasn't an issue at the time. SE isn't exactly the most active dev in this type of game play.

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Buddy, what? They did take action by removing GC restrictions and forcing groups to be freelance. Everyone had a chance to be matched up with or against them unless you were masochistic enough to keep queuing into one in 24-man, which spoiler alert, are not a thing anymore.

You wanna know what real problems are? People who queue up for tomes or some reward with no desire to actually play, contribute in any way, or even learn the rules of the game. People who bot it up or throw consciously to end the game sooner. How about we solve those problems. People partied up to reduce the number of those in their instance and to battle against other premades.

Oh but by all means, tell me how the big bad premades ruined your solo queue experience.

It doesn't have to be a premade only mode. Just have it so that premades queueing at the same time are against each other, not sotted together because they are the same GC because that's what happens, even with freelancer on.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

You're not exactly providing anything more factual in terms of the "history of Frontline". Full parties were not removed for several expansions, several updates, and several map additions. That is factual.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Buddy, what? They did take action by removing GC restrictions and forcing groups to be freelance. Everyone had a chance to be matched up with or against them unless you were masochistic enough to keep queuing into one in 24-man, which spoiler alert, are not a thing anymore.

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I am slightly confused. Did you not want examples of why premades have been bad since 2.0 and why they were a problem? Because SE didn't take action then it wasn't an issue? Did I not give examples of when the great PvP community abused the garbage que system not for the love of the game but to curb stomp other teams. Some of the same people who are trying to abuse the que system again.



You have a slight misconception, premades don't actually ruin my experience. Since frontline started I just logout after seeing them a couple times. I am much more upset by the stupidity of random players. But the same way a certain percentage of the pvp population acted about feast chat being removed, like they never did anything wrong. I would much rather see "leave premades in I hate the scrubs and I want to stomp them." That I can respect, the poor victim not so much.



If SE is even semi active and puts two and two together. The people who are bypassing the idea of premades will ruin it for everyone even more. We will all be locked into freelancer random solo que or maybe duo.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

It doesn't have to be a premade only mode. Just have it so that premades queueing at the same time are against each other, not sotted together because they are the same GC because that's what happens, even with freelancer on.

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You don't understand how premades work. There are no premades getting put together because they are on the same GC, it is a bunch of people solo queueing at the same time that are on the same GC. Premades can not circumvent freelancer.
It's just another reason eliminating 8 person premades was a bad move. People have been syncing queues for awhile to stack their GC with people from the same LS or discord or whatever. When we did the premades before we never ended up on the same GC as them, and were able to give the GC we ended up with a decent chance against people doing this.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

It doesn't have to be a premade only mode. Just have it so that premades queueing at the same time are against each other, not sotted together because they are the same GC because that's what happens, even with freelancer on.

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If I had to take a guess they are all queing same grand company, German(or non English language), freelancer off, in progress off, and timed. So they all get out they talk in chat for a bit and see if everyone is ready. The leader will call a time in game, they watch and all click as it hits that time. I could be wrong. But unless they made some serious updates to the party grouping system it should allow solid abuse of the current system.

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Originally Posted by Rhais

You don't understand how premades work. There are no premades getting put together because they are on the same GC, it is a bunch of people solo queueing at the same time that are on the same GC. Premades can not circumvent freelancer.

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You just made my brain melt.

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There are no premades getting put together because they are on the same GC, it is a bunch of people solo queueing at the same time that are on the same GC.

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That is literally the definition of a premade. They're just using the GC work-around to circumvent SE's removal of 8 man party's. Except this is worse because they could potentially end up with a full 24 man alliance rofl stomping for win pads.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

If I had to take a guess they are all queing same grand company, German(or non English language), freelancer off, in progress off, and timed. So they all get out they talk in chat for a bit and see if everyone is ready. The leader will call a time in game, they watch and all click as it hits that time. I could be wrong. But unless they made some serious updates to the party grouping system it should allow solid abuse of the current system.

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That is exactly what they are doing and the best way to stop it is for SE to enforce Freelancer when queuing up for any FL match. Boom, problem solved. If they want to play with friends they can still go in as a 4 man groups.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

That is literally the definition of a premade. They're just using the GC work-around to circumvent SE's removal of 8 man party's. Except this is worse because they could potentially end up with a full 24 man alliance rofl stomping for win pads.

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No it's literally not, a premade is a party formed before queueing. Anyone referring to premade parties is talking about people forming a party before queueing and then queueing as a party, hence the pre prefix, as in making the party before queueing. You can't guarantee everyone will get in the same instance or be in the same party syncing queue times, you can't preform the party that way, it's literally not the definition of premade.

Now people in PvP crossworld linkshells are solo queuing into one grand company to try to play together. Which I do not want to do. Instead of being restricted to eight people.
I queued premade most of the time, playing with friends in an MMO crazy right? We didn't win all of the time. Most of the time we got put on teams with people who didn't even try, which is most of the player base that is being catered to.

When friends want to play together and are skillful in their campaigns, it aught be commended. Not punished. Maybe start a duty finder with like players who want to counter them? Also can we please have Full Party questions again?

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

This is false. They absolutely are on VC using discord. I'm apart of the same discord and have even been in VC with them. The discord even encourages other GCs to join and do the same.

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I mean, i dont pvp as often as i did in HW, but when i do i usually hop in with people from our pvp-CWLS and we NEVER go into VC

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Originally Posted by BrianRicardo

You can play with friends without having to Grand Company stack with 24 people. You do NOT have to be on the same team to play with people. Just like playing a board game, card game, fighting game, racing game or whatever. If the goal is to have good competition as I'm reading it would be better matches to separate teams and go Premade vs Premade. If people are willing to Q sync together, why are people not willing to Q sync against each other?

So, let's not twist it. We know the majority goal is to use a loophole, have 90% win rates and eat people for dinner. This was not a necessity to people when 8 man premades were possible. Yes, they dominated but not to that level. I could join in on the fun of doing that too...but its pretty grey area and not healthy for PvP overall. Bring back 8 man premades or yeah just rework grand company system perhaps to all freelancers. 4 Man premades is not the best situation, but it's not totally "omg I can't play with friends"

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It's funny you say "let's not twist it" yet you'll begin this with hyperbole. I have yet to see this 24 man stack you speak of and i've been playing Frontlines since Heavensward. I started as a solo player who never once thought of giving up due to people playing together, it drove me to improve. Comparing this game to a "card game" is another funny twist, this is an mmo, one where you will encounter multiple people who you would want to play with and a lot of us have made friends through this mode and enjoy playing together. The majority of people complaining here about premades dont even know the real problems of players who will literally afk to get their xp/tomes. Those are the issues that have driven most of the players who actually enjoy this mode to seek others to play with.

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Originally Posted by BrianRicardo

You can play with friends without having to Grand Company stack with 24 people. You do NOT have to be on the same team to play with people. Just like playing a board game, card game, fighting game, racing game or whatever. If the goal is to have good competition as I'm reading it would be better matches to separate teams and go Premade vs Premade. If people are willing to Q sync together, why are people not willing to Q sync against each other?

So, let's not twist it. We know the majority goal is to use a loophole, have 90% win rates and eat people for dinner. This was not a necessity to people when 8 man premades were possible. Yes, they dominated but not to that level. I could join in on the fun of doing that too...but its pretty grey area and not healthy for PvP overall. Bring back 8 man premades or yeah just rework grand company system perhaps to all freelancers. 4 Man premades is not the best situation, but it's not totally "omg I can't play with friends"

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When they release a FFXIV Battle Royale mode, I'll play it. But Frontlines is not that, almost all games coming out today allow you to pick your preferred side/team/faction/race so your other game argument is invalid. The only reason people are complaining is because the people that are choosing to play with each other are skilled, if they were losing no one would be complaining, maybe not even know they are queued together lol. It's rather silly that in a casual pvp mode, people should be split up because teaming up is unfair, if its casual, its about fun, and playing with friends is fun. If it was about competition, which since it is casual pvp as you have said before, no one should be thinking about competition of players, its supposed to be relaxed, and chill which is exactly what spending time with friends is, if I wanted to test my skill/competition to other players in pvp in a fair setting, I would queue ranked feast, where people are matched based off their rating to create fair teams.

Love the meltdowns of those who played only in premade and lost the spoon. :D
Also love how they claim that they are "skilled" but not once proposed or supported the idea of a pre vs pre only mode. :3

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Originally Posted by A-res

Don't you bring the epeen measuring stick to this thread. Especially when the game is focused on teamwork gameplay. Ranking boards in Aether nowadays is irrelevant thanks to win traders and those who sell wins. You probably don't immerse yourself in Aether PvP community enough to know that.

There is premade advantages, you're right about that. It's a team of people that want to win where PUGs you have a mixed bag of people that do want to win / don't care. I played in different Data Centers where PUGs actually can fight back against premades. Just because Aether PUGs are trash, why do everyone else has to suffer for their incompetence?

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Literally this argument: https://youtu.be/rG_DvlFJ-YQ?t=9

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Originally Posted by Fang_

It's funny you say "let's not twist it" yet you'll begin this with hyperbole. I have yet to see this 24 man stack you speak of and i've been playing Frontlines since Heavensward. I started as a solo player who never once thought of giving up due to people playing together, it drove me to improve. Comparing this game to a "card game" is another funny twist, this is an mmo, one where you will encounter multiple people who you would want to play with and a lot of us have made friends through this mode and enjoy playing together. The majority of people complaining here about premades dont even know the real problems of players who will literally afk to get their xp/tomes. Those are the issues that have driven most of the players who actually enjoy this mode to seek others to play with.

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I think the 24-man stack is largely an Aether DC thing, they have a FL Discord they coordinate on and the VC channels are active every time I look in there.

That said I'm all in favour of premade vs premade since those are always the most fun games. You know when that was possible? When we had 8-man premades and the queue throws you into different GCs without you needing to do anything. At the moment, of course people are just going to flock to the same GC in order to play with their friends, especially when realistically speaking most people are still going to be on the 15-day GC transfer cooldown. And even when that ends, who's going to be the first one to switch grand companies and hope other people follow them? And if you switch GCs, then you're locking yourself out of queue-syncing with friends who are in different GCs.

Some things are always going to be constant in FL. People are going to want to play with friends. Even people who don't want to premade still want to have skilled teams, so they do things like switching to Maelstrom, because another unfortunate reality of FL is the prevalence of bots/afkers -- just look at the healing and damage scoreboards at the end of the game, there's always going to be DPS that do less damage than healers, healers healing less than 100k, etc. Implementing mandatory freelancer for solo-queuers like some people are suggesting are just gonna irritate another subset of players who play the game legitimately and work hard to improve their play.

Just bring back 8-man premades, especially given the arbitrary and unnecessary decision to take away 24-man modes. An 8-man premade can have a huge influence on a 72-man match but never to the point where it's grossly unfair, given that there are usually multiple premades in different GCs in one match and accounting for the variance in PUG quality. Because at the moment, yeah, if 24-man stomps are happening on Aether, that's probably going to be bad for the health of the gamemode in the long run, whether it's by driving off newbies/solo-queuers or prompting a mass switch to Adder in hopes of riding on the premades' coattails.

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Originally Posted by Rhais

No it's literally not, a premade is a party formed before queueing. Anyone referring to premade parties is talking about people forming a party before queueing and then queueing as a party, hence the pre prefix, as in making the party before queueing. You can't guarantee everyone will get in the same instance or be in the same party syncing queue times, you can't preform the party that way, it's literally not the definition of premade.

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I mean, sync solo queuing is planned and prepared before hand, hence the "pre" suffix. You can argue semantics all you want, but you understand exactly what we mean and the understand how it is abusing thee queue system. And like I said in the freest post, this is all contingent on if this was what SE was trying to do by breaking down 8 man parties and enforcing freelancer on "real" premades in the first place. If not, this entire topic can be ignored.

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Originally Posted by Saintly

Love the meltdowns of those who played only in premade and lost the spoon. :D
Also love how they claim that they are "skilled" but not once proposed or supported the idea of a pre vs pre only mode. :3

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I am going to reply to your obvious bait post (when I really shouldn't) and just leave you with this. https://i.gyazo.com/337eb85f08f5a918...5123c83dd4.png being from the rank 1 pvp team in ranked team feast on primal last season, this is my experience with a premade vs premade pvp mode in FFXIV. Over 5 hours in queue during primetime during a season (date/time of screenshot is 6/26/19 at 10:49pm) and yeah you guessed it, people dodged rather than grind against each other to get better. They would rather the effortless win or maybe even just a chance of winning against other teams instead of grinding away vs the top premade to get better. Unfortunately for me, this supports Brian's point about people just wanting a 90% wr and easy games, but I never argued against that, there will always be people like that, there will always be people afking in frontlines for the tomes, there will always be people afking in alliance raids, main story roulettes, and other duties because they want things effortlessly handed too them, this isnt a pvp problem, this is a FFXIV player problem. I would rather they don't just add another dead mode because people refuse to grind against people better than them to get better, which again, is a problem that extends further than just FFXIV pvp.