DRK the least chunkiest or is it just me?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adventica6

I thought people were bored of the bloodspiller spam, guess not, I personally don't like pressing 1 skill 5 times in a row every few mins. Clunkiest ? is that a question ? or an answer ? just look at it, living dead, tbn, /gag

---

So im guessing you don't like pressing Holy Spirit 5 times in a row on PLD or Fell Cleave 5 times in a row on WAR either.

It would be nice if DRK got an earlier level ability that's "TBN, but self-targeted and weaker" to help with early levels.
But apparently, early levels are meaningless because they aren't cutting edge, current raids.

I swear this is really poor job design. So drk is only good if they're tanking content lvl 70 and up because they have TBN. Anything below that and they are bad because they don't have it. On top of that there is no way to tell what attacks against you are physical or magical in order to use defensive cd's in certain fights. I honestly don't know what people see in this job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Magnedeus

I swear this is really poor job design. So drk is only good if they're tanking content lvl 70 and up because they have TBN. Anything below that and they are bad because they don't have it. On top of that there is no way to tell what attacks against you are physical or magical in order to use defensive cd's in certain fights. I honestly don't know what people see in this job.

---

Well its not like everyone play sub 70 lvl content all the time, and it was worse in SB because you had TBN at max level only, shadow wall had lower duration, there was no passive 20% tank buff and even more aoe damage drk had in sb on low lvls was 60 potency on one skill.
Drk now is a ton better at low lvl than he was before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nedkel

Well its not like everyone play sub 70 lvl content all the time, and it was worse in SB because you had TBN at max level only, shadow wall had lower duration, there was no passive 20% tank buff and even more aoe damage drk had in sb on low lvls was 60 potency on one skill.
Drk now is a ton better at low lvl than he was before.

---

That's not true, sub level 70 have way more sustain with Abyssal drain spam, have tank stance 20% damage mitigation so there was the same considering how nerfed the tank damage is now, higher MP economy, better dark mind when magic adds are present like sprites and dark passenger blind effect so it's not worse only bad ppl don't using his tools properly.

Now it's more simplified and DRK only have rampart, shadow wall, a nerfed dark mind and a buffed reprisal witch I consider it's worse compared to the level of self sustain/mitigation and passive options (blind) use to have witch has been overcompensated with even more dependency on TBN instead of design properly dark mind thanks to they obsession to keep it magical only.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shao32

That's not true, sub level 70 have way more sustain with Abyssal drain spam, have tank stance 20% damage mitigation so there was the same considering how nerfed the tank damage is now, higher MP economy, better dark mind when magic adds are present like sprites and dark passenger blind effect so it's not worse only bad ppl don't using his tools properly.

Now it's more simplified and DRK only have rampart, shadow wall, a nerfed dark mind and a buffed reprisal witch I consider it's worse compared to the level of self sustain/mitigation and passive options (blind) use to have witch has been overcompensated with even more dependency on TBN instead of design properly dark mind thanks to they obsession to keep it magical only.

---

You only had AD at levels between 56-70 and quietus at lvl 64, which was essential for AD spam due to the MP regen. TBN was also a big part of DRK in that time, because it allowed to transfer MP used into blood that gave you quietus which generated more MP than you have used on TBN. To make things worse AD only healed you if you had dark arts activated, but it did not increased its damage, you had only enough MP to use it three times to heal yourself out, and using it that way without TBN and quietus was completely off.
For anything under 56 lvl drk was nearly unplayable, it had basically no AOE damage and the only aoe that it had was unleash with low potency and cost MP on top of it, Dark passage was useless up until late in the expansion.
You look at this job with rose painted glasses i guess, there was a reason why DRK was barely played by tanks, it had its own problems multiple times worse than DRK has today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nedkel

You only had AD at levels between 56-70 and quietus at lvl 64, which was essential for AD spam due to the MP regen. TBN was also a big part of DRK in that time, because it allowed to transfer MP used into blood that gave you quietus which generated more MP than you have used on TBN. To make things worse AD only healed you if you had dark arts activated, but it did not increased its damage, you had only enough MP to use it three times to heal yourself out, and using it that way without TBN and quietus was completely off.
For anything under 56 lvl drk was nearly unplayable, it had basically no AOE damage and the only aoe that it had was unleash with low potency and cost MP on top of it, Dark passage was useless up until late in the expansion.
You look at this job with rose painted glasses i guess, there was a reason why DRK was barely played by tanks, it had its own problems multiple times worse than DRK has today.

---

Before TBN DRK didn't need save MP so they could spend all his resources on AD, of course more limited before you get Quietus and TBN but his usage rate was way superior that current version and they self healing even on those levels infinitely better, DRK did have way better economy even at lower levels compared to now, it have blood price to recover a fair amount of MP under aoe situations on lower level until bloodweapon-quietus meta, the job was limited until TBN yes but is the same right now but slightly worse, leveling DRK is a pain until lvl 70 and that didn't change at all.
No aoe damage? DRK have the best aoe damage on basically every level tier, PLD was worse or we forgeth about flash? Unleash and dark passenger was more that enough for a lvl 50 tier compared to what WAR and PLD have at those levels.
DRK was barely played thanks to ppl parroting it was the worst tank by a mile (and that was true until 4.3) at max level and that stigma stay all the expansion thanks to SE take over a year buff the job with highly necessary buffs on the defensive and offensive department, DRK aoe rotation was the best feeling of the job and the best one between the tanks, the job was used on ultimate both times not BCS was strong but BCS it was fun.

more like it's ypu looking at past DRK with black painted glasses, you even recognize you never try to play DRK optimaly in the past so no offense but i think you over-exagerating his old state based on you own unoptimal experience just to prove now is better when in the reality it still have the same problem with little variance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shao32

Before TBN DRK didn't need save MP so they could spend all his resources on AD, of course more limited before you get Quietus and TBN but his usage rate was way superior that current version and they self healing even on those levels infinitely better, DRK did have way better economy even at lower levels compared to now, it have blood price to recover a fair amount of MP under aoe situations on lower level until bloodweapon-quietus meta, the job was limited until TBN yes but is the same right now but slightly worse, leveling DRK is a pain until lvl 70 and that didn't change at all.
No aoe damage? DRK have the best aoe damage on basically every level tier, PLD was worse or we forgeth about flash? Unleash and dark passenger was more that enough for a lvl 50 tier compared to what WAR and PLD have at those levels.
DRK was barely played thanks to ppl parroting it was the worst tank by a mile (and that was true until 4.3) at max level and that stigma stay all the expansion thanks to SE take over a year buff the job with highly necessary buffs on the defensive and offensive department, DRK aoe rotation was the best feeling of the job and the best one between the tanks, the job was used on ultimate both times not BCS was strong but BCS it was fun.

more like it's ypu looking at past DRK with black painted glasses, you even recognize you never try to play DRK optimaly in the past so no offense but i think you over-exagerating his old state based on you own unoptimal experience just to prove now is better when in the reality it still have the same problem with little variance.

---

AD had only 120 potency, and unleash had 50, both costed MP and you were not using them all the time at below 64 lvl.
Dark passager also costed MP and for the majority of the expansion was 100 potency for 1/4 mp.
The heal from abyssal drain was not worth spending MP on dark arts, you would be oom in a few seconds.

Today DRK has free from cost unleash that deals 150 potency and flood of darknes that does 250 aoe potency.

DRK in stormblood was horrible at below 64 lvl, simple as that. Also blood weapon was available only in offensive stance, which made you a lot softer comparing to DRK today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nedkel

AD had only 120 potency, and unleash had 50, both costed MP and you were not using them all the time at below 64 lvl.
Dark passager also costed MP and for the majority of the expansion was 100 potency for 1/4 mp.
The heal from abyssal drain was not worth spending MP on dark arts, you would be oom in a few seconds.

---

Dark Knight under 56 was far from useless. If having a sucky AoE is your reasoning, I suppose Paladin was unplayable too.

Abyssal drain was only bad during the stormblood re-work and up until quetis due to the nerf to healing potency, other than that it functioned how it did in heavensward which was basically self sustain without giving up damage with bloodprice being the method of getting mp back. They forced quteis to take Blood prices place in mp regeneration which is also apart of why abyssal drain became so bad for a short amount of time during the 60-70 leveling.

As for the best aoe damage dealer for stormsblood? I think that probably would have been Warrior, though Dark Knight was probably close behind because PLD didn't really have a AoE.

This expansion it's aoe damage seems to be better among the three expansions, but feel that it's probably the weakest among the four tanks for group damage since a choice of saving mp is there for TBN to reduce damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ekimmak

It would be nice if DRK got an earlier level ability that's "TBN, but self-targeted and weaker" to help with early levels.
But apparently, early levels are meaningless because they aren't cutting edge, current raids.

---

And my question is why? There are enough tools to over mitigate dungeon trash and previous boss fights by a mile. You literately have Rampart, Shadowskin, Arm's Length, and reprisal at your disposal. If you're dying still with all of those it more than likely means one of the following.

A. You're not using cool downs correctly
B. You're not up to date on your gear.
C. Your healer is letting you die (A and B applies to them as well)
D. You're missing a game mechanic from one of the monsters.

Assuming your character some how doesn't have a built in weakness.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nedkel

AD had only 120 potency, and unleash had 50, both costed MP and you were not using them all the time at below 64 lvl.
Dark passager also costed MP and for the majority of the expansion was 100 potency for 1/4 mp.
The heal from abyssal drain was not worth spending MP on dark arts, you would be oom in a few seconds.

Today DRK has free from cost unleash that deals 150 potency and flood of darknes that does 250 aoe potency.

DRK in stormblood was horrible at below 64 lvl, simple as that. Also blood weapon was available only in offensive stance, which made you a lot softer comparing to DRK today.

---

whats your problem with the MP? i mean it's a resource that DRK use to gain in mase and spend it in mass only bad players run out of MP and still was easy to recover. are you literally forgething that dark passenger was a oGCD of 280P with DA? you can't seriously say DRK have lower dps when having that combo since dark arts at level 45. and you actually arguing about AD self heal? it literally makes you inmortal, it was worthy to use it every single time as long as you need some heals since it allow for further healer dps (if they are not only heal healers of course) and you can't really compare today potency standars with SB potency standars since all jobs get based potencys buffed thats why many dungeons today go even faster and DRK have one of the best aoes of the game those days and was literally the best betwen the tanks by far with WAR being side to side.

you literally didn't know how to play DRK at all at lowers leves there was no reason to turn off tank stance since blood weapon didn't affect anything until quietus so was better use bloodprice instead and enjoy those juicy MP gains to get sweet selfheals and blinds on your targets when was off with dark passenger, it's called management of your tools and resources, DRK only was terrible if you didn't even bother to learn to use the job properly and it wasn't even hard at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seku

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ekimmak

It would be nice if DRK got an earlier level ability that's "TBN, but self-targeted and weaker" to help with early levels.
But apparently, early levels are meaningless because they aren't cutting edge, current raids.

---

And my question is why? There are enough tools to over mitigate dungeon trash and previous boss fights by a mile. You literately have Rampart, Shadowskin, Arm's Length, and reprisal at your disposal. If you're dying still with all of those it more than likely means one of the following.

A. You're not using cool downs correctly
B. You're not up to date on your gear.
C. Your healer is letting you die (A and B applies to them as well)
D. You're missing a game mechanic from one of the monsters.

Assuming your character some how doesn't have a built in weakness.

---

Their demand is justified. Well sure, DRK has 'enough' tools for mitigation, but it's not a 'balanced' amount of mitigation.

PLD has Sheltron very early now, even before HW content; WAR has Thrill of Battle as an allround heal(/buff), and gets Equilibrium, and Raw Intuition way before level 70; and our newcomer GNB has Heart of Stone, Heart of Light, and Camouflage on top right before 70.
DRK is the only tank before level 70 WITHOUT a short mitigation CD or even aoe raid wide ON 70!

And Dark Mind doesn't cut it. Magical only is useless when you face physical enemies. Every other tank has CDs for both kinds of damage.

This is frustrating and disheartening when you play DRK on lower levels and know you have LESS than any other job on your role.
It's destroying the (fun) experience of this job (and leveling is taking a great amount of experience of a job), and should be changed without destroying current end game balance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

Their demand is justified. Well sure, DRK has 'enough' tools for mitigation, but it's not a 'balanced' amount of mitigation.

PLD has Sheltron very early now, even before HW content; WAR has Thrill of Battle as an allround heal(/buff), and gets Equilibrium, and Raw Intuition way before level 70; and our newcomer GNB has Heart of Stone, Heart of Light, and Camouflage on top right before 70.
DRK is the only tank before level 70 WITHOUT a short mitigation CD or even aoe raid wide ON 70!

And Dark Mind doesn't cut it. Magical only is useless when you face physical enemies. Every other tank has CDs for both kinds of damage.

This is frustrating and disheartening when you play DRK on lower levels and know you have LESS than any other job on your role.
It's destroying the (fun) experience of this job (and leveling is taking a great amount of experience of a job), and should be changed without destroying current end game balance.

---

And? You just said it yourself Drk has enough mitigation. Which yet again goes back to my starting question why. If not having a single button to press every 2-3 minutes is making the job not fun for you, maybe it's you and not the job. DRK has way worse problems then it's cool down's at the moment, more so given FF14's meta. The only thing that you've said that makes any sense is that Dark Mind needs to get a re-work. Which has been known by the community for a long time.


So please, tell us why DRK should get another button to press every 2-4 minutes for no reason other than just to have it, instead of asking the devs to I don't know, re-work the class so that it's not boring and has a more interesting Kit over all that pushs DRK away from being a WAR clone and why they should re-work their abilities to fit into content that is old and most can be cleared by low man groups?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seku

And? You just said it yourself Drk has enough mitigation. Which yet again goes back to my starting question why. If not having a single button to press every 2-3 minutes is making the job not fun for you, maybe it's you and not the job. DRK has way worse problems then it's cool down's at the moment, more so given FF14's meta. The only thing that you've said that makes any sense is that Dark Mind needs to get a re-work. Which has been known by the community for a long time.


So please, tell us why DRK should get another button to press every 2-4 minutes for no reason other than just to have it, instead of asking the devs to I don't know, re-work the class so that it's not boring and has a more interesting Kit over all that pushs DRK away from being a WAR clone and why they should re-work their abilities to fit into content that is old and most can be cleared by low man groups?

---

In terms of mitigation, DRK has no real mitigation outside of Shadow Wall, which you might as well make Sentinel a Role action, and most of the tank imbalances come from Role Action as whole, and it mostly affects Tank and Physical Ranged DPS roles and role actions tanks should only have are Provoke, Arm's Length, Ultimatum, and Shirk. But that's just me...


And as far as raid buffs are concerned, DRK and/or PLD will not bring RDM and/or MNK to the party because of Embolden/Brotherhood only affecting everyone else's Physical Damage dealt, especially since we don't if Living Shadow counts as physical damage or magical damage or both or if it's even factored in at all, which is why I believe Living Shadow should be tied to Darkside maintenance and have last as long as you have Darkside up(while reworking Brotherhood and Embolden affect all damage dealt instead of just one type of damage, maybe add haste effects as well to those skills). But, again, that's just me...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

In terms of mitigation, DRK has no real mitigation outside of Shadow Wall, which you might as well make Sentinel a Role action, and most of the tank imbalances come from Role Action as whole, and it mostly affects Tank and Physical Ranged DPS roles and role actions tanks should only have are Provoke, Arm's Length, Ultimatum, and Shirk. But that's just me...


And as far as raid buffs are concerned, DRK and/or PLD will not bring RDM and/or MNK to the party because of Embolden/Brotherhood only affecting everyone else's Physical Damage dealt, especially since we don't if Living Shadow counts as physical damage or magical damage or both or if it's even factored in at all, which is why I believe Living Shadow should be tied to Darkside maintenance and have last as long as you have Darkside up(while reworking Brotherhood and Embolden affect all damage dealt instead of just one type of damage, maybe add haste effects as well to those skills). But, again, that's just me...

---

???
What is TBN not classified as a mitigation tool? Dark mind still has its uses in magical fights... which gee 2/4 of the fights in eden are all magical making DRK really good there. Plus... TEA is almost all magical, I would kill for an extra 20% mitgation for free every minute.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

???
What is TBN not classified as a mitigation tool? Dark mind still has its uses in magical fights... which gee 2/4 of the fights in eden are all magical making DRK really good there. Plus... TEA is almost all magical, I would kill for an extra 20% mitgation for free every minute.

---

The topic is how much mitigation DRK has below level 70.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seku

snip (pressing buttons?)

---

I don't know where you get that I demand buttons to smash?

I could spam Dark Mind vs everything... it would do literally nothing in most cases, but at least I have buttons to click?

I don't know if or how long you experienced Heavensward, but there DRK had the same amount or even more of mitigation than any other tank (excluding invuls).

WAR: Raw Intuition, Vengeance, Thrill of Battle, (Storm's Path [all])
PLD: Bulwark, Rampart, Sentinel, Sheltron, (Rage of Halone [STR/physical only])
DRK: Dark Mind, Dark Dance, Shadowskin, Shadow Wall, Reprisal, (Delirium [INT/magical only])
You also had Foresight, Bloodbath (MRD/WAR) and Awareness (GLA/PLD) as cross class actions.

Now back to the present, let's list what unique actions every tank get before lvl 70 (exluding 30% mitigations and invuls):

PLD: (Passive block since start) Sheltron [35], (Clemency [58])
WAR: Thrill of Battle [30], Raw Intuition [56], (Equilibrium [58]), Shake It Off [68]
GNB: Camouflage [6!], (Aurora [45!]), Heart of Light [64], Heart of Stone [68]
DRK: Dark Mind [45], (Abyssal Drain [56])

DRK lost Dark Dance as Anticipation, and Reprisal, PLD lost Bulwark, and WAR lost... nothing. GNB even gets its first unique mitigation action at level 6! And their hot/heal before 50, too! This is huge for dungeon runs, or level 50/60 content. Having a disadventage for 2 out of 4 expansions leaves a bad taste.

Additionally, they nerfed DRK in SB hard, (TBN was okayish) gauge generation was a mess (1 per physical hit during BW, 4 per tick in BP, some awkward number in Salted Earth yada yada), Dark Arts usage was awkward and overused, aoe damage before Abyssal Drain was abysmal low (lol at 50 pot on Unleash), and SE did not buff ShadowWall, DM or DP until late into expansion, while still ignoring that DRK was missing additional mitigation AND damage on lower levels. WAR and PLD got buffed since start, or shortly after the launch. DRK was undertuned/underperforming, even on SB endgame content.

Dark Mind needs to be avaiable sooner and get a physical mitigation bonus/trait, or SE needs to add another physical mitigation skill similar to Dark Dance.

tl;dr: It's not about having more buttons to press, but having abilities at your disposal. DRK is missing those when synced lower than level 70.

DRK could really use some love below level 70 they feel very squishy without TBN.

1.) First thing that should be adjusted is giving us a way to know if an attack is magical or physical so dark mind has more usage. Maybe a different color cast bar for magical attacks/tankbusters?

2.) Second thing I would suggest is more unique mitigation. For example give them Dread Spikes.

Dread Spikes (Level 45)
Description: When you receive a physical attack, Dread Spikes drains HP from the enemy equal to X% the damage dealt. (Duration 10s)
Recast: 60-90s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

???
What is TBN not classified as a mitigation tool? Dark mind still has its uses in magical fights... which gee 2/4 of the fights in eden are all magical making DRK really good there. Plus... TEA is almost all magical, I would kill for an extra 20% mitgation for free every minute.

---

And how exactly do you know that all the fights in eden are magic based? Last time i checked there is no way to tell the difference between magical and physical damage. A boss could be swinging his weapon at you for a tank buster that looks physical, but the damage you take could be magical.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

???.

---

I don't care about WAR, GUN, PLD and the amount of defensive cool downs they have in this argument. Your argument is that DRK should have more Defense cool downs below 70. You've yet to explain WHY they need it when they already have enough, by your own admission. If DRK has enough cool downs, why should they get more below 70.

And yes I agree, drk needs a better over all kit. But their defense is in check both at and below the level cap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Magnedeus

And how exactly do you know that all the fights in eden are magic based? Last time i checked there is no way to tell the difference between magical and physical damage. A boss could be swinging his weapon at you for a tank buster that looks physical, but the damage you take could be magical.

---

Aside from the fact that most people just check on fflogs(damage taken section has a list of all attacks which are color-coded for physical, magic and dots), you can also just look at the battle log in-game. There's 4 types of different log messages based on whether the attack is physical instant, physical cast, magical instant or magical cast:

EnemyName uses AttackName. - physical instant
EnemyName readies AttackName. - physical cast
EnemyName casts AttackName. - magical instant
EnemyName begins casting AttackName. - magical cast.

Would it be nice if there was some easier way to see it mid-combat, like colors or something? Yeah, totally. However saying there's no way to tell in-game is completely incorrect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Satarn

Aside from the fact that most people just check on fflogs(damage taken section has a list of all attacks which are color-coded for physical, magic and dots), you can also just look at the battle log in-game. There's 4 types of different log messages based on whether the attack is physical instant, physical cast, magical instant or magical cast:

EnemyName uses AttackName. - physical instant
EnemyName readies AttackName. - physical cast
EnemyName casts AttackName. - magical instant
EnemyName begins casting AttackName. - magical cast.

Would it be nice if there was some easier way to see it mid-combat, like colors or something? Yeah, totally. However saying there's no way to tell in-game is completely incorrect.

---

lol implying people even reads the battle log in-game. Most people don't even know it exists, and then you imply that everyone uses parsers to know that info anyone. Parsers are unreliable at best because of how so many people expect to know what your average DPS should be, when they should be more concerned about the total damage they dealt to kill the boss.


Joking aside, I do wish there were better ways to tell in game if something was physical or magical damage.


Side note: skills I removed from my hotbar due to how annoying they because of how situational/outdated the mechanics of the skill is; The Blackest Night(needs more Dark Arts stacks), Salted Earth(I shouldn't be needing to macro a skill that shouldn't even be ground target to begin with, also DPS on it is way to weak for how long the cooldown is), Dark Mind/Missionary(for obvious reasons), Living Dead(WHY IS THIS STILL SUCH A GARBAGE INVULN!?!), and might as well throw Edge/Flood of Darkness/Shadowin there (seriously, just have it be either Darkness or Shadow, not both).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

lol implying people even reads the battle log in-game. Most people don't even know it exists, and then you imply that everyone uses parsers to know that info anyone.

---

"I don't read the log" is not the same as "There's no way to tell the difference". Especially if the info is included in the game without any third party program.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

Side note: skills I removed from my hotbar due to how annoying they because of how situational/outdated the mechanics of the skill is

---

I was about to list how full of crap all the stuff before this part was, but I suppose I don't really have to, lmao.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

Living Shadow should be tied to Darkside maintenance and have last as long as you have Darkside up

---

Welcome the most damaging class in the game.