SMN Why don't we hear about egi glamours anymore?

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Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

I pretty much agree with all you say. I don't want Egi's to be removed and think it is possible for them to have synergy with the Demi's.

- My problem with SMN right now is the synergy of everything else. I enjoy commanding my Egi/Demi but feel they are in conflict with the rest of SMN's toolkit. I dislike how Egi Assault shares the GCD...it should have it's own CD especially since it's an ability executed by the Egi which surely would have it's own CD's anyways?

- I also dislike feeling rushed whenever I have a Demi summoned. Like I have to just tunnel vision in order to squeeze the most damage out of the Demi (especially with Bahamut, as only certain abilities trigger Wyrmwave...)

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Oh its even wierder than that once you pass 70th.

The order the Trances come in is completely wonky now. Ok so fair enough you start with just a standard Deathflare which generally if on its own is used as a part of an AoE rotation. THEN you get Bahamut Demi, which is actually MOSTLY a single target type of rotation you use for Boss Mobs due to the Ruin 3/Wyrmwave Combo. Then you get Phoenix Trance which is primarily an AoE rotation.

That would be ok except... its COMPLETELY out of order for the way things appear in a dungeon or really any instance outside of 8 mans.

Normally it goes like this... Trash mobs (AoE Targets) ... More Trash Mobs (AoE Targets) ... Boss Mob (Single Target).
But your Trance Rotations goes like this... Deathflare (AoE multiple target)... Bahamut Demi and Wyrm Wave (Single Target).... Phoenix Rotation (AoE multiple target)

Its completely out of order and wonky and you can't change it.

EDIT: Now I don't want to get too negative here because there ARE things that have been improved upon with regards to just general Egis. The Air Pet's constant AoE normal attacks and Egi Assaults make it the BEST AoE pet, and even better than it was prior in any AoE rotation.
And the Earth Pet, despite losing the taunt now can actually be used in Raid situations and Dungeons where you have to take a lot of unavoidable damage due to the Raid wide damage. Plus you can pop this pet, shield yourself with the Glittering Topaz and then use the full Demi-Bahamut rotation unmolested regardless of what gets thrown at you short of insta-kill attacks. Plus the damage though not as good as Ifrit-Egi is still about halfway between the Fire Pet and the Air Pet. So still usable as a halfway measure.

Any more feedback from anyone?

I think smn is going to get an overhaul, much like mcn to make it more of a pet-centric or large but brief summon class rather than a dot mage. We can already see it happening with the 5.0 changes, so egi glamours would be a waste of dev time.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

I think smn is going to get an overhaul, much like mcn to make it more of a pet-centric or large but brief summon class rather than a dot mage. We can already see it happening with the 5.0 changes, so egi glamours would be a waste of dev time.

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They could add glamours for the bigger summons then ;P I'd rather summon Leviathan than Phoenix

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Originally Posted by OvernightSiren

They could add glamours for the bigger summons then ;P I'd rather summon Leviathan than Phoenix

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Demi-Primal glamours would be amazing! Especially if we get a third trance in 6.0 because then we could have the warring triad as demi's. Not sure that would be something they would do, but would be really nice to be able to just glamour over Bahamut and Phoenix with (fill in Primal name here).

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Originally Posted by Haxaan

Demi-Primal glamours would be amazing! Especially if we get a third trance in 6.0 because then we could have the warring triad as demi's. Not sure that would be something they would do, but would be really nice to be able to just glamour over Bahamut and Phoenix with (fill in Primal name here).

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If they add it it'll probably be a cash shop exclusive...most of any good looking gear we get these days is cash shop exclusive so I can't see the egi glamour being different unfortunately

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Originally Posted by OvernightSiren

most of any good looking gear we get these days is cash shop exclusive so I can't see the egi glamour being different unfortunately

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That is completely up for debate seeming tastes are wide and varied. The cash shop has mostly npc and Asian inspired glam, so if that is your thing this holds true. However not all of us are obsessed with jp culture or wanna roll play as a scion so we like the dungeon gear or eden gear or crafted gear and so on. I personally, love the new steampunk inspired neo-ishgardian gear since that is totally my jam and wouldn't be caught dead in a kimono as I do not like the aesthetic at all. So this is a completely irrelevant claim.

Honestly, they could easily tie into the player suddenly being able to summon Leviathan and Ramuh post-ShB and Eden lore-wise.

I just wish Square would lean back into Sholar/Summoner being true pet classes again instead of removing it :/

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Originally Posted by EpicOverlord85

I just wish Square would lean back into Sholar/Summoner being true pet classes again instead of removing it :/

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The be fair, pet classes are always super wonky in MMOs. You have to make crazy allowances for them in regards to mechanics and AoEs and pathing and so on, to the point where it's more trouble than it's worth. Pet classes are super cool in theory but insanely hard for the dev team to manage.

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Originally Posted by EpicOverlord85

I just wish Square would lean back into Sholar/Summoner being true pet classes again instead of removing it :/

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Not unless they overhaul the pet system entirely. I'm gathering a bunch of material to make a thread later about the disaster that pets have been from the past up to now. The pet system is fundamentally broken, especially for SCH and SMN. As Jenna above mentioned pets in MMOs are typically wonky, but in XIV they're among the worst I've ever played with.

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Originally Posted by Nemekh

Not unless they overhaul the pet system entirely. I'm gathering a bunch of material to make a thread later about the disaster that pets have been from the past up to now. The pet system is fundamentally broken, especially for SCH and SMN. As Jenna above mentioned pets in MMOs are typically wonky, but in XIV they're among the worst I've ever played with.

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Ironically this is the best they played since inception.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

The be fair, pet classes are always super wonky in MMOs. You have to make crazy allowances for them in regards to mechanics and AoEs and pathing and so on, to the point where it's more trouble than it's worth. Pet classes are super cool in theory but insanely hard for the dev team to manage.

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You should have seen it back in '13. Egi's died left and right from AoE's to the point SE had to just make them immune to it lol

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

You should have seen it back in '13. Egi's died left and right from AoE's to the point SE had to just make them immune to it lol

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Ha ha. I remember it vividly. I have very unfond memories of 2.0 egis.

I wouldn't say this is the best they've played when you consider ghosts, action dupes and pets outright delaying/forgetting their Pet Order commands. The main QoL is that they can't die to cleaves and cleave busters anymore and that you can place them by a boss without aggroing and that all is big, but functionally in other regards, they've gotten worse. Just ask the Scholars.

Let smn/sch use minions as egi-glamour.. (wont matter if their attacks are not animated, there are plenty workaround for that)

I think the best way to rework smn would be to remove egis altogether. Have a Carby, Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda phase just like you do Bahamut and Pheonix phase. Make it so you have to rotate through Carby, Ifrit, Titan and Garuda to get a Bahamut or Pheonix phase that way all your summons are useful.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I think the best way to rework smn would be to remove egis altogether. Have a Carby, Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda phase just like you do Bahamut and Pheonix phase. Make it so you have to rotate through Carby, Ifrit, Titan and Garuda to get a Bahamut or Pheonix phase that way all your summons are useful.

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Won't happen.

They would have to scrap, then reshoot and revoice, and re-balance the entire Summoner questline all the way up the levels. On top of that Summoner DPS is balanced throughout ALL campaigns up to this point. (well ok its a little too weak at lower levels)

And last but not least, if they do that, they will make Summoner little more than a glorified Black Mage clone.

Right now the two play completely different. SMN has DoTs plus Pets acting as DoTs to create an underlayer of damage upon which all other damage is stacked. It just looks flashy, but that's really how it plays. Its not a Nuker.

BLM is the Nuker, the straight up Direct Damage Specialist using one big hit to take out enemies. SMN remains the death from a thousand cuts all put together Job.

They could do something like that with the Demi Summons, but not the Egis.

So there's time and resources for parasols...

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

So there's time and resources for parasols...

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Parasols are something accessible to players of all jobs while an egi glamour system would only be to the benefit of players of one job unless DRK, MCH and SCH also get to use the system to customize their pets. Usable by all jobs has more priority over usable by only 1 or few jobs.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

So there's time and resources for parasols...

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A better comparison is " There was time and resources for performance...".

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Originally Posted by Ramura_Sono

A better comparison is " There was time and resources for performance...".

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you mean "is" as its still getting updates for the handful of people who you see use it.

The best addition to performance imo, was the ability to mute it.

Personally, I just want Physick to become useful. Maybe it gives a regen effect...

Stronger GCD healing is not what SMN needs in any capacity.

5.2 and still no news about it, not even just more different colored Carbuncles. I think it's safe to say they won't bother with Egi glamours anymore.
I assume it's because they have changes planned related for Egi summons, or they believe that it's not worth spending resources on, or have different priorities.

damn this thread is still going somehow =w=
didnt it get necroed? Oh well at least its better than the "Balance" thread next door
I know people like cosmetics but my opinion on this is that id rather get the actuall summon for example lets say a shiva egi or demi ramuh or what not ,than get it as a glam simply cause if we get it as a glam then that means we never get it as an actual unique summon . this is too big for me. recolouring? sure. alternate forms of the same summon? sure. but spending a summon just to cover it up as another summon? that is something i dont like

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Originally Posted by Nemekh

Stronger GCD healing is not what SMN needs in any capacity.

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Maybe, but I wouldn't mind it. You ever do Heaven on High without a healer and need to use Physick on yourself? It's a sad sight to see.

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Originally Posted by Nemekh

Stronger GCD healing is not what SMN needs in any capacity.

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Honestly I agree,

It is pretty pointless at this point. Red Mage fills that role much better than SMN at this point. Its just far better at support.

Back in old ARR, sure it was important, heck it was even useful during the days of Heavensward, but SE pretty much replaced the old role that SMN had with the Red Mage and they are far better at it than SMN.

I want access to the white and black Carbuncles. I want to be able to glamour Bahamut and Phoenix into Carbuncles. I want Scholars to get the glamours too so I can make the fairy into a Carbuncle. Neon Eevees Everywhere!

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Originally Posted by Rika007

Right now because their are a lot of issues with the job in just pure playability wise that the devs really can't be taking the time to worry about aesthetic changes. I would also say that it seems very likely that ego's may not even be a thing past this expansions. Demi's continue to take more and more center stage, and the egi system in general has been an overall massive frustration point for long time SMN players.

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Considering they’re tied with Job quests and lore, I think they’re stapled to them unless they get upgraded or somthing

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Originally Posted by OvernightSiren

I get that there are bigger issues with the job, but I feel like the same team that balances jobs isn't the same job that models and codes egis. Also the egi glamour has been something we've been waiting for a follow-up for for literally 2+ years, while the job issues have only been a big topic of discussion for like 4 months.

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True. But on the issue of balance, I sure miss the days where my pet was more than just a ghost following me around effectively acting like a dot I applied to various targets. Tanking through my Pet was fun...I don't like this iteration of SMN very much at all.

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Originally Posted by Truen

True. But on the issue of balance, I sure miss the days where my pet was more than just a ghost following me around effectively acting like a dot I applied to various targets. Tanking through my Pet was fun...I don't like this iteration of SMN very much at all.

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Actually I think it's the opposite. You're more involved with your pet than ever with the current pet rework. Back in Stormblood it was viable to just keep Ifrit on Sic if you don't care too much about minmaxing your damage, while you only cared about Garuda's contagion but forget it exists afterwards.

The biggest issue I have with summoner in 5.XX series is it just doesn't mesh together anymore. It has good concepts like Demi Phoenix phase and Egi Assaults but then Dreadwyrm trance and Demi-Bahamut feels dated and out of place. Then you add SMN staples like DoTs and Aetherflow; you just end up with too many mechanics that aren't working together in harmony like 4.XX series did. Given SE's track record, they aren't going to revamp the job during 5.XX to make it play better and will wait till 6.0 comes out sadly.

P.S. I give up on SE giving us Egi Shiva / Ramuh / Leviathan <(; _ ; )>

Not everything in 4.x flowed together perfectly either, even after the 4.1 adjustments. In that regard every new iteration has been steps backwards which has lead to not the best play feel vs what could have been.

Honestly gives the impression as to how little the job gets play tested. I would pay to see Yoshida play SMN on a PLL showcasing changes and improvements instead of it just being talked about. If not him, then one familiar enough with it all. There would be no need to apologise for these setbacks if things were better polished from the onset. The devs emphasise not wanting for players to experience job stress from things being less functional. For the most part things are much better but there remains some issues that are a source of job stress all surrounding the problem area that is pet AI plaguing not only us but SCH and to lesser extents even MCH.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

Actually I think it's the opposite. You're more involved with your pet than ever with the current pet rework. Back in Stormblood it was viable to just keep Ifrit on Sic if you don't care too much about minmaxing your damage, while you only cared about Garuda's contagion but forget it exists afterwards.

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Not really, but that's okay we can agree to disagree. Now, sure we have some buttons to click, but besides that our pets are basically invulnerable--invincible--and therefore irrelevant to gameplay in every way except for dps mitigation. I really enjoyed healing my pet with the SMN and playing through the pet by letting it tank for me...but, those days are gone. Now it's basically just a glorified floating dot with a few DD clickies.

So it's not like what you're saying isn't true...I just really don't like the fact pets are untargetable, and hence, incapable of tanking.

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Originally Posted by Truen

Not really, but that's okay we can agree to disagree. Now, sure we have some buttons to click, but besides that our pets are basically invulnerable--invincible--and therefore irrelevant to gameplay in every way except for dps mitigation. I really enjoyed healing my pet with the SMN and playing through the pet by letting it tank for me...but, those days are gone. Now it's basically just a glorified floating dot with a few DD clickies.

So it's not like what you're saying isn't true...I just really don't like the fact pets are untargetable, and hence, incapable of tanking.

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With Demi summons, a tank pet simply wouldn't work anymore. It needed to be scrapped and it was about time.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

With Demi summons, a tank pet simply wouldn't work anymore. It needed to be scrapped and it was about time.

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But I miss my tank pet! Topaz as Tank, Chocobo as DPS, me as second DPS and Healer. It was like a perfect little party! Oh those were the days...

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Originally Posted by AduroT

But I miss my tank pet! Topaz as Tank, Chocobo as DPS, me as second DPS and Healer. It was like a perfect little party! Oh those were the days...

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Summoner can probably get a tank dummy pet that can be summoned with an Egi/Demi simultaneously and that can actually hold hate, but I know people will complain even more that Summoner can do everything.

Chocobo is a better tank than the chicken nugget ever was anyways.

I respectfully disagree. At least as a Tank the Topaz and Titan Tot at least could take a hit if the tank goes down while you raise because the Healer went down next. A stone skin barrier does little to help when the boss is actively trying to pound you in the face. Honestly, the only time I summon them now is when I want the barrier to eat up an AoE or unavoidable hit before I switch back over to DPS summons.

Besides, my Chocobo has taken enough beatings in my place to warrant a break.

Granted my chocobo wasn’t as leveled back then, but I always found Topaz and Titan to be a better tank, holding agro and taking hits.

Anyways we’re getting off topic. The point is we need more Carbuncles. Let me glamour Bahamut and Phoenix into Carbuncles.