AF gear already "obsolte"

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

Unfortunately, SE believes a PLD should tank by holding hate with heals. Hence all the MND and +healing stats.

What SE thinks is good gear/stats doesn't always reflect what the community agrees with.

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It could work if each piece gave you hundreds more MP, but you just need to look at mp costs to see why 40 mp on a piece is ineffective.

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Originally Posted by Kaizlu

Now now, this is exaggerating.

I check people often (I'm curious!) and it's rare that I see someone with a full set of double melded gear. Like, really rare.

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May also just be your server. Our LS has a few different sets of double melds and yes, the rare 3x melds. It's a PITA no doubt and cost some gil if u don't already have the materia but our LS like I'm sure others do, go do spirit bind PTs and our crafters make extra gear JUST FOR the materia so we don't have to buy it.

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Originally Posted by Geesus

May also just be your server. Our LS has a few different sets of double melds and yes, the rare 3x melds. It's a PITA no doubt and cost some gil if u don't already have the materia but our LS like I'm sure others do, go do spirit bind PTs and our crafters make extra gear JUST FOR the materia so we don't have to buy it.

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My LS gets together most Sundays around noon to make double/triple meld attempts for each other. So maybe it's rare on other servers or other LSes, but not mine.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

It could work if each piece gave you hundreds more MP, but you just need to look at mp costs to see why 40 mp on a piece is ineffective.

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Nah

Shields/Blocking needs to matter more
Defense while on PLD should factor more
Raise the def stats on PLD gear

If a mob hits for 4500 war should take 4k and the PLD should take 2k due to partial blk/higher def

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

Nah

Shields/Blocking needs to matter more
Defense while on PLD should factor more
Raise the def stats on PLD gear

If a mob hits for 4500 war should take 4k and the PLD should take 2k due to partial blk/higher def

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I'm not disagreeing with you, I'd rather have def+ or HP+ or both on PLD. I'm just saying that it could work if it was done right, but it wasn't.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

My LS gets together most Sundays around noon to make double/triple meld attempts for each other. So maybe it's rare on other servers or other LSes, but not mine.

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We do as well and mainly for the reasons of this post. Now not ALL the AF is crap some of it is rather useful or even great but there is as always some derp who can't balance with common sense it seems like.

let's see what changes they make to PLD on Monday

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Pretty much no balancing will fix this.

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But radical chance, after getting geared up against 1 month of massive attacks from whiners. For example, I would appreciate it very much if materia would be completely U/U. You want it, you craft it. Would keep everyone from being geared up with double melts, U/U gear would be of worth again and really good gear would be a) reserved for the most committed players, b) keep the worth of gear for longer than just a few weeks and easier to balance, and b) boosted gear would be expensive enough to keep things interesting and make people think if they really *need* that stuff or if they rather stayed with the stuff they already own.

I am disappointed as well with this AF gear... Looking at dev post saying that AF would be better than single and/or double meld put everyone expecting to see something good. AF comes and what we see? Most of pieces arent even single meld and only a few pieces get close to double meld.

Looking at Darklight sets those, yes look a bit double meld and godly gear. Which makes AF gear useless even with with the enhancements. They need to AF gear be special and with good stats, plus giving full set bonus with extras to be equal to higher melds.

Can't be bothered quoting everything people have replied to me, but my example was an extreme about what can be done, I know the odds are very low getting 3 perfect melds and it would cost a fortune but it stands by the mentality people are starting to get which is why should I do dungeons/NMs/primals/anyonether content when I can farm/gather/craft alot and get gil to do meld these.

U/U gear right now isn't even filler gear while you get the gil/mats/SB for melds because you can just throw on a double meld and beat the U/U gear. I personally will use af, because it looks badass, and if I can do content in a bikini it doesnt matter really but we need to do something about this.

Lets take (readies flame shield) FFXI for example, they had crafted gear close to lower end endgame gear so when you level a job you get crafted gear, then come endgame you use it until you get the endgame gear (which could take a few months) this keeps crafters in demand and content useful, admitedly with the fact most people have all lvl 50s now it wouldnt work as well but I think thats what the devs need to go for.

or instead of Darklight, there could have been some epicly rare drop that power upgraded your AF

A lot of the AF stats are disappointing...I thought they said they would be better then the current gear that has materia? I really wish they would be honest...or is there something I am missing about this stats that is better >.> Oh well I still wear it anyway..IDGAF hehe

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Lets take (readies flame shield) FFXI for example, they had crafted gear close to lower end endgame gear so when you level a job you get crafted gear, then come endgame you use it until you get the endgame gear (which could take a few months) this keeps crafters in demand and content useful, admitedly with the fact most people have all lvl 50s now it wouldnt work as well but I think thats what the devs need to go for.

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This is honestly what I thought they would do...idk...because it worked in that game and other games. O.o *shrug*

HOW I SPELL OBSOLETE

>Patch 1.21
>Still tanking with Pld/Gla
>ISHYGDDT

To me, AF was mainly about 3 things.

1) Getting stats on a piece of gear you could not normally get that stat on through binding materia.

2) Getting a Job specific full set of gear that catered to the role of that Job and being able to control how certain things happened with that Job or its abilities.

3) Offering a way for casual players to be able to function in events without requiring the time and gil sink that materia bonding and attaching can be.

Can you tailor a set that is beyond what a set of AF can do...in most cases yes. Will it be an easy task to do so without giving up something the AF offers that either can not be duplicated or not duplicated easily...not a chance. Some people want nothing to do with Materia bonding beyond one piece for now. Please keep in mind that any level cap increase will more than likely nullify both crafted and AF gear. So which would you rather put your time into at the end of the day with the probability of a level cap increase within the next year?

Some of the AF does not offer a bonus to a particular ability that a job may have. I am looking to replace that gear if anything and will work toward that end but for now I am happy with most of the AF and think most of it works quite well. Sure the PLD AF could use some work but it was bound to happen that one of the AF's was going to be viewed as "the worst" of the group. I think this has more to do with the fact that tanking is a vital part of a party. If it was MNK AF then most people would have said, "Oh boy, there goes PUG gettin screwed again." and it would not have been such a big issue since there are plenty of other jobs to resort to for compensation until SE fixed it.

SE is also walking a fine line here. If they make all the jobs and their gear 10x better than the classes they came from then no one would ever play the classes again. Mixing and matching party sets between classes and jobs is something SE wanted to accomplish. People need to stop looking at it like we do not have a new and improved tank and start looking at it like we now have three tanks overall now (PLD WAR GLD) that function in different roles.

You guys need to relax.
They are going to improve jobs.
As for the AF gear, i agree. They should be better.
Melded gear is better.

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Originally Posted by Richard_BG

HOW I SPELL OBSOLETE

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OBSOLOTE?

OBSOLUTE?

OBSOLITE?

Forget this, obsolte.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Not in one slot, but if you 3x meld all your gear you can beat it, lets say you get lucky (or spend alot of gil) highest att power+ materia is +30, 3x meld that to hands and you have +90 att power, highest str is +20, 3x that to your weapon is +60, crit att power+ triple meld that on body (+50 each) is +150.

Thats:
att power+90
STR+60
crit att power+ 150

and PUG, GLA and ARC can put 3x INT or PIE on their head, making +60 to those.

Beats darklight hands down.
ACC and DEX isnt really needed because we hardly miss anyway.

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Well, I'm going to take the weapon out of your equation for obvious reasons...

So that leaves us with hands, body and head (Ill use PGL for this example)

Crafted

Felt Bliaud +1 (DEF 111, INT+5, MND+5, Magic Acc+6)+ 3x Savage Might IV [+50]
Fingerless Raptorskin Gloves of Slaying +1 (DEF 43, Mag Eva +10, Atk Pow +5) + 3x Heaven's Fist IV [+30]
Raptorskin Pot Helm +1 (DEF 69, Acc+6, Int+2, Fire res+10) + 3x Intelligence IV [+20]

Total:

DEF 223
Atk Pow +95
Crit Atk Pow +150
Acc +6
Magic Acc +6
Magic Eva +10
Fire Resist +10
INT +67
MND +5


Total Success Rate to achieve triple meld: ~3%
Cost of materials per failed triple meld: Head - 400k, Body - 2.8mil, Hands, 1.3 mil
Statistical Gil cost of obtaining all three items: ~150 Mil

Darklight - Bracers, Corselet, and Eyepatch

DEF 243
ATK +55
Crit Atk Power +60
Crit Rate +40
Store TP +40
ACC +53
STR +20
INT +20
EVA -24
HP -100

Drop Rate: ~10% per run - need 3/13 all Darklight items
Failure Cost: variable time spent per run
Statistical cost for obtaining all 3 items: 130 runs (if party members pass those 3 items to you)

Summary:
Crafted gear does beat out in the main 3 categories, but loses out on special Crit Rate and Store TP bonuses. Darklight obviously wins out in style points and the cost of obtaining the Darklight could be considered far lower than the Crafted gear - assuming that most players can't consistently earn ~ 1mil per hour.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Well, I'm going to take the weapon out of your equation for obvious reasons...

So that leaves us with hands, body and head (Ill use PGL for this example)

Crafted

Felt Bliaud +1 (DEF 111, INT+5, MND+5, Magic Acc+6)+ 3x Savage Might IV [+50]
Fingerless Raptorskin Gloves of Slaying +1 (DEF 43, Mag Eva +10, Atk Pow +5) + 3x Heaven's Fist IV [+30]
Raptorskin Pot Helm +1 (DEF 69, Acc+6, Int+2, Fire res+10) + 3x Intelligence IV [+20]

Total:

DEF 223
Atk Pow +95
Crit Atk Pow +150
Acc +6
Magic Acc +6
Magic Eva +10
Fire Resist +10
INT +67
MND +5


Total Success Rate to achieve triple meld: ~3%
Cost of materials per failed triple meld: Head - 400k, Body - 2.8mil, Hands, 1.3 mil
Statistical Gil cost of obtaining all three items: ~150 Mil

Darklight - Bracers, Corselet, and Eyepatch

DEF 243
ATK +55
Crit Atk Power +60
Crit Rate +40
Store TP +40
ACC +53
STR +20
INT +20
EVA -24
HP -100

Drop Rate: ~10% per run - need 3/13 all Darklight items
Failure Cost: variable time spent per run
Statistical cost for obtaining all 3 items: 130 runs (if party members pass those 3 items to you)

Summary:
Crafted gear does beat out in the main 3 categories, but loses out on special Crit Rate and Store TP bonuses. Darklight obviously wins out in style points and the cost of obtaining the Darklight could be considered far lower than the Crafted gear - assuming that most players can't consistently earn ~ 1mil per hour.

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I see the point you're trying to make but you forget there are people still looking for their first Moogle drop or win or Ifrit drop or win lol. So you're more or less speculating on the drop percentage for getting that gear. Imho your ~10% is a tad high and there are, if you're not aware, things you can do to have a solid chance of doubling or tripling your melds. And depending on how idiotic you are about the gil you spend on Materia, only a FOOL would waste 148 mil LOL. I have a LS mate with some solid pieces it did take him 10 mil to socket but that's WELL below your 148mil. ;)

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Originally Posted by Geesus

I see the point you're trying to make but you forget there are people still looking for their first Moogle drop or win or Ifrit drop or win lol. So you're more or less speculating on the drop percentage for getting that gear. Imho your ~10% is a tad high and there are, if you're not aware, things you can do to have a solid chance of doubling or tripling your melds. And depending on how idiotic you are about the gil you spend on Materia, only a FOOL would waste 148 mil LOL. I have a LS mate with some solid pieces it did take him 10 mil to socket but that's WELL below your 148mil. ;)

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True, there are things you can do to influence your melds, but stacking the same type of materia on an item is a actually a drawback to your success rate.

The ~150 mil was what it would statistically take to get the exact build proposed. Anyone who attempted to make that build should expect to spend roughly that much. Maybe less if they are lucky, and more if they aren't.

My point is, even with 150mil spent on crafted gear you can't really copy what the Darklight gives. Yes, its better in some areas, but its also takes much more to obtain.

I think people just get hung up on the fact that melded gear CAN be better (in some ways) than U/U. They don't pay attention to what must be invested to actually make it better.

As far as I'm concerned, the cost vs benefit comparison makes U/U (specifically 1.21 gear) much better than melded.

What did you expect? AF gear in XI wasn't top notch either. Some pieces are good, some suck, and some are situational....though the situational thing doesn't apply much since you can't swap gear like in XI.

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Originally Posted by Riv

What did you expect? AF gear in XI wasn't top notch either. Some pieces are good, some suck, and some are situational....though the situational thing doesn't apply much since you can't swap gear like in XI.

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You also could not swap jobs/classes in the middle of Dynamis in FFXI...something you can do easily here if needed. As it has been said in numerous other posts...although it is not kind to your inventory there is no denying that having versatility to switch up for events has its advantages. Having the ability to gear up differently on the spot to adapt to different obstacles far outweighs gear swapping in my eyes. The AF offers the ability to at least be functional in the Jobs if a group decides to switch things up rather than forcing the issue with gimped gear for a class you don't normally play.

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Originally Posted by wolfsspirit

good to know.. so i dont have to bother going after any of the gears and waste my time in dungeons looking for it :)

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Don't see much point in playing the game if thats the outlook hmm.

Sure I know you were being sarcastic, but it does paint a rather dull picture.

It is sad that the gear is obsolete in the same patch. At least give it some time to air. Now in a year when you see AF it will = noob.

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

I have been noticing on my server that Blackmages are not wearing the af hat anymore..

Seems a hat with double meld materis is better... so sad

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Easy to fix. Make it the "set" need to be used otherwise you won't get the set bonus which could be something SE desires to pumP. example. Mage set gives enhanced critical heal. Without the hat you don't get this bonus. Just the usual rate.

AF has never been the best, it's rather a nice starting place.

I think most AF stats are decent enough to be left alone. AF alone isn't supposed to be beat-all gear, and it is a good thing that other pieces are still useful.

Though...AF looks coolest, by far (imo), so I kinda hope for 2.0 they add a saved gear-set system so you can display 1 piece, but actually have another piece equipped. No, it isn't necessarily 'realistic', but in a world full of magic, I think it should be possible lol.

I love how it's always the same forum goers who seem to get awry each time a new patch rolls out.

AF gears should be meld-able.

Hopefully in the future we will get a way or ways to upgrade the JSE/AF gear, something that is worth while hopefully.

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

well.. i guess i am one of those ppl that lkes to be on their "role" and seems sad that the NICE looking AF gear is worthless

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It's not worthless, you don't like it, that's not the same.
If you feel like you HAVE TO be geared with the best equipment all the time, your problem. People doing Ifrit in santa suit have shown us that you DON'T need to be an elitist to experience the content successfully. :D
Do yourself a favour, wear your AF gear because you enjoy it and because it still IS great equipment.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Just look at the PLD set to see a set that was useless before it was introduced. Mage hat nothing, the whole PLD set blows goat balls.

cobalt totals
HP : +203,
Vit : +15,
Attack Power : +4
Str : +10
Accuracy : +2
Dex : +2


PLD set totals
Enhances Divine Veil
Enhances Cover
Enhances Holy Succor
Block Rate : +3
Vit : +11
MP : +120,
Enmity : +15
Mnd : +38,
Healing Magic Potency : +18


Bear in mind that none of this takes into account even a single meld, nor sentinel's gear or combinations of melds/sentinel's gear.

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Your tanking priorities are seriously skewed and needs prioritizing. HP =/= god stat. Normally you seem to know what's what though, which is odd.

Let me direct you to a good read. Thumb through the nets, and try to figure out your class, not ignore everything it's good at because you'd rather PLD be WAR. http://kanican.livejournal.com/55915.html

Fact is stats don't mean much in this game, they are watered down to the point of who cares ..

So ... who cares ?

The fact people can do Ifrit naked speaks volumes about the issue with this games stats system and gear in general.

AF gear for the most part isn't that hard to get (last pieces are a bit awkward) so I'm kinda glad they're not the best gear in the game. Not that I care, Bard hat is pretty much the best looking thing ever so I'll use it regardless :D

I think too many people had high expectations for AF. I guess XI is the standard comparison so I'll draw my analogy from there. As we all remember AF1, or have quickly forgotten it wasn't the end all be all for the class. If anything it was situational. You wanted all the pieces simply to complete the set, but you didn't use all the pieces in battle.

I think the same mindset was carried forth in XIV. There may be two solid pieces to have until a certain point past current level cap, but like crafted gear it has a range of usefulness as well.

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Originally Posted by Leelya

I think too many people had high expectations for AF. I guess XI is the standard comparison so I'll draw my analogy from there. As we all remember AF1, or have quickly forgotten it wasn't the end all be all for the class. If anything it was situational. You wanted all the pieces simply to complete the set, but you didn't use all the pieces in battle.

I think the same mindset was carried forth in XIV. There may be two solid pieces to have until a certain point past current level cap, but like crafted gear it has a range of usefulness as well.

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The high expectations came from SE saying AF would be better than crafted, double melded gear...
they set the bar pretty high themselves

Well, also, there are many casual players whom this gear benefits. The don't have the time or resources, nor the justification to spend either.

As far as what SE said...they did not say which materia. Or what Tier for that matter. Or every piece. If you look closely to the stats, they resemble many double melds, just perhaps not the highly coveted stats. Even then, I am fairly sure each set has at least one piece that has a stat that exceeds a single meld in a very good way.

I am not sure what people thought when they read what SE said. It seems as if people expected a double meld of same stat, which is not the case. For example, the PLD gear. Each piece has +Enmity and +Stat. And each of the AF go on like that, along with bonuses to your skill set.

Just because the stats aren't the best of the best doesn't mean it's worthless or obsolete...so you deal a couple DPS less or heal a couple HP less...at the end of the day 50 HP or 50 DMG isn't that big a deal that I would say you can't wear that get up cause it's obsolete...

So wear it in good health...if you wanna buff up use food and pots that's where the jizz is...