Eureka wasn't so bad, but endgame in ffxiv is lacking without eureka

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Originally Posted by Noitems

Considering how Eureka's ending through BA was a big cliffhanger, it's pretty safe to say the content is going to be open if they want to revisit it.

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?

The Eureka storyline doesn't end on a cliffhanger.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

People really need to stop ceasing Gordias whenever someone says the game is too easy. It's a cop out response because there does exist a middle ground between overtuned and braindead. Most content follows into the latter category. While difficulty doesn't necessarily make content better, the lack of it has certainly contributed to content being easily rushed through.

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I don't think it should be forgotten tho.. it's something that happened and effected the entire game and tons of players. It's also a vaild worried to never forget. Cause people fear that can come back, you can't fault people from bringing it up.

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Originally Posted by Gaethan_Tessula

That's nice and all, but it's not a valid argument against the creation of more max level, challenging group content.

Alt-endgames like glamour or housing exist whether we have 1 endgame raid or 50. That FF14 could use more than 12 kinda hard fights and two actually hard fights per expansion doesn't mean you have to play them.

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As an aside, I think Eureka would have been way better recieved if they shoved several of the NMs in each region into a Baldesion Arsenal style raid for the region. FF11 had a lot more to do at 75 and 99 than leveling parties and camping NM spawns.

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I wouldn't mind something similar to abyssea or the various weapon trials. Maybe even lock various content behind some Maat like completion. They also shouldn't be afraid to put time requirements behind these.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

That is your opinion. You will never change my opinion. I don't define it that way and I never will.

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You must be fun at parties. You might as well have said "Alexander is the current raid because I'm doing it minimum ilvl and its more relevant than Eden". You aren't wrong in your thinking that you can choose how to spend your time within the game, but thats not the same as defining the "endgame". The endgame is specific pieces of content designed to be the players next step once they reach the postgame. lvl 80 dungeons, lvl 80 raids, lvl 80 24 mans and content like eureka are all specifically endgame because the chronology that they fit into is exclusively post-game. Of those, we currently only have 3 dungeons and a raid cycle. That is where the complaints lie. Thats not an opinion, you are mixing up "endgame" and "available content at max level".

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Originally Posted by monk-dps

I don't think it should be forgotten tho.. it's something that happened and effected the entire game and tons of players. It's also a vaild worried to never forget. Cause people fear that can come back, you can't fault people from bringing it up.

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Except people instantly bring up Gordias at the even slightest mention of increasing the overall difficulty of content. It gets tiresome, especially when content has become increasingly more brain dead.

I honestly hated Eureka. People spent most of their time AFK waiting for a certain boss to spawn or were busy training NMs or light farming. Baldesion Arsenal was fun, but incredibly expensive, unless you played a DPS - another feature I didn't take too well to. I also hated the separated leveling system and how it promoted solo play over your friends if you were more than 2 level apart.

The relics were released entirely too late, even following the trend of relics-can't-be-the-same-tier-as-savage-weapons-for-whatever-reason. I hate relic being tied to this instance, too. I'm done with savage for the week. I want to grab some of the past relics from Eureka, but I mainly can't because it's dead content. It was never tuned to progress at a reasonable rate solo, especially after the nerfs and buffs they put in that made trains that much more efficient. I've heard they plan on making nerfs to Eureka in general, but in the meantime, this is all freetime I could have used to grind out those relics.

Equipment drop rates were abysmally awful, despite being BiS for the instance. Considering you have BA in the place, I find that to be problematic. The difference between someone with no Eurekan gear, someone partially geared and someone fully BiS was leaps and bounds noticeable.

While I think some posters in this thread are looking at the content with rose-tinted glasses because similar to XI or what-have-you, the instance had issues. Boy, did it have issues, and it's not like they were experimenting on how to get it right. They got it mostly right the first time with the first iteration of Diadem. For some reason, the XIV team doesn't want us working together and made one of the worst decisions that butchered Diadem 1.0 into 1.5 and then 2.0. Eureka is just Diadem 3.0 with most of the mistakes from 1.5 and 2.0, despite having the player feedback from then already and getting the same feedback the second time around (Diadem 1.0 was very similar to Anemos, 2.0 a lot like Hydatos and 1.5 was Pagos, but worse). I can't say I have much faith in Diadem 4.0 nor do I look forward to more Diadem or Eureka.

Baldesion Arsenal, however, is another story. I do look forward to more of that.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Except people instantly bring up Gordias at the even slightest mention of increasing the overall difficulty of content. It gets tiresome, especially when content has become increasingly more brain dead.

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How did Gordias and difficulty even get brought up in a topic of Eureka of all things? One of the most brain dead pieces of content there was.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

That is your opinion. You will never change my opinion. I don't define it that way and I never will.

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What a mad lad, fighting against common logic just do be irregular and special. Cheers.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Except people instantly bring up Gordias at the even slightest mention of increasing the overall difficulty of content. It gets tiresome, especially when content has become increasingly more brain dead.

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I can see that it can get abit old, but that doesn't change the fact that it really did mess up alot of stuff. People have a hard time letting things go... look at EA games ( Tho yes I know EA keeps messing up and EA doesn't give people a chance to forget them but still. ). My other point is difficulty isn't static and everyone has a massive idea on what is hard for them and what is easy. But that's my small 3 cents.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

I know people have been brainwashed to believe raiding is the only endgame. It simply is not true. Every player decides what end game means to them.

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I would assume, even if I was brand new to MMO's or gaming is that you max you level and do what you can do with your max leveled character.
Just like how some video games have end-game content when you reached the end and have those special dungeon.
Not start all over again at level 1 on a different job or look pretty in Uldah lol.

I sincerely hope they have a heavensward style option for relics this time around, i got to level cap in pagos and could not stomach it anymore, it was dull and I didn't feel like I was getting anywhere, just constantly spinning my wheels for a slow drip of stuff. At least with dungeons spamming you got to do old content roulletes more frequently, and you know how long each dungeons is gonna take, so you can break it down into smaller chunks to do casually, whereas with Eureka it felt like you had to give it your soul or be a leech that afks and teleports to fates.

Or, you know, like 80-90% of the playerbase noped the heck out of Eureka.
They'd be better off just giving us some extra quests, dungeons, trials and raids IMO.
And I pray to all that is holy that the relic is *not* locked behind something Eureka-like...

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Originally Posted by Jennah

Or, you know, like 80-90% of the playerbase noped the heck out of Eureka.

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Did they?
I mean I know 80-90% complained about it, I think we all did at some point - but I'd guess on paper it looked like a success.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

Or, you know, like 80-90% of the playerbase noped the heck out of Eureka.
They'd be better off just giving us some extra quests, dungeons, trials and raids IMO.
And I pray to all that is holy that the relic is *not* locked behind something Eureka-like...

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And these are logical numbers?

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Originally Posted by kunoz

Every time you would level in Eureka, Every time you would get a weapon in Eureka and Every time you would get into a party all had a sense of value thanks to Eureka suffering. It was the first content that actually tried to deliver an open-world feel to the players that wished for it, however, the execution wasn't great. There is legit pretty much NOTHING to do in this game that is MEANT for capped levels. Looking back at stormblood, when I was lv 70, all I did was savage and eureka because it was the only content that serves actual endgame for capped level for long-term. I know people are gonna say "Oh, you can do craft, level(class), tribe, etc, etc" but those can be done before even reaching endgame and hell even before finishing msq! Eureka was one of the solutions to fix all of that and I wish the Devs would create more contents that serve for capped levels and I wish the Devs would make Eureka BIGGER than it is(Bigger as in more exploration). At this point, I only log in to raid now and I know i am saying way too early in the expansion, but im hoping that it doesn't repeat this pattern. Also, YES, its great that you can do so many things in this game too, but these arent "truly" endgame.

tldr: why cant SE just make more contents for capped level only? at least i will feel like i achieved something for getting this far.

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All i have to say to this is "yikes." Eureka was the worst trash in this entire game. It had no redeeming qualities, it was boring, it was pointlessly grindy, and incredibly unfriendly toward solo players. I don't want to have to go around shouting for parties and dodging overpowered mobs and all that BS for a relic. The way they did it in prior expansions was so much better, eureka was crap plain and simple. I wish they never waste resources on anything like it again.

It's ok. Let those who enjoyed the content relish in it. I know I enjoyed it and much more so when entering baldesion arsenal for the first time.

Though I can agree that the content became stale after completing the second relic.

Eureka was a good idea but poorly executed (and I was one of those players than in general enjoyed it).

There is a lot of stuff SE can do to create a more interesting (and fun) experience, even if the grind stays (and IMO should stay).

As today, open-world content in FFXIV is one of the weakest aspects of the game.

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Originally Posted by Soupa

I can’t wait for this expansions iteration of Eureka. I hope they take the existing systems eureka gave us and expand on them and create more varied battle content. Baldession Arsenal, while not everyone’s cup of tea was great. Do more stuff like this.

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I just hope they won't lock anything remotely less grindy behind, well, dozens of hours of grinding, this time around. There needs to be more than just grinding and NM trains from the start.

... I'm not even past Anemos yet. May proceed maybe at a later time.

I hope Eureka never returns. It's the worst way they could've handled the relic grind. Incredibly solo-unfriendly, more tedious than it should be and there's no alternative options to grind it like ARR and HW had. The old relic grinds were a better solution in keeping the open world alive and relevant and that's saying something.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

How did Gordias and difficulty even get brought up in a topic of Eureka of all things? One of the most brain dead pieces of content there was.

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Because people mentioned that new content doesn't last very long. And I made a comment that content would have a longer lifespan if it wasnt so
braindead easy it could all be smashed with 2-3 hours of a patch going live..

As it stands new content comes out and you actually have to try harder to lose a fight than you do to beat it.. and the thought of upping the difficulty just a touch and people were like omg gordias!!!!

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

I hope Eureka never returns. It's the worst way they could've handled the relic grind. Incredibly solo-unfriendly, more tedious than it should be and there's no alternative options to grind it like ARR and HW had. The old relic grinds were a better solution in keeping the open world alive and relevant and that's saying something.

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Relic has never been good at keeping the open-world alive, you have people forced onto doing boring content, RNG reliant and also force you to seen other players as competition. If they bring back something similar to the books you will be reading "Eureka was a better system. This is xxxxxx!" All the relic grind, with the exception of the first ARR step, have been bad.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Relic has never been good at keeping the open-world alive and if they added the same system once again like in ARR you will be reading "Eureka was a better system. This is xxxxxx!" All the relic grind, with the exception of the first ARR step, have been garbage.

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I never implied the relic grind is good anyway, but I'd rather have more options to grind my relic weapons than whatever Eureka is supposed to achieve. That alone makes the old relic grinds a lot more bearable.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

I never implied the relic grind is good anyway, but I'd rather have more options to grind my relic weapons than whatever Eureka is supposed to achieve. That alone makes the old relic grinds a lot more bearable.

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What more options? A few HW steps have certain alternatives, sure, but that's about it. For ARR you do the books or you do the books, you do the dungeons or you do the dungeons, you... well, you get what I mean.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

What more options? A few HW steps have certain alternatives, sure, but that's about it. For ARR you do the books or you do the books, you do the dungeons or you do the dungeons, you... well, you get what I mean.

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There's some variety in the dungeons at least, but ARR's grind wasn't really good. That and the old relic grinds were more accessible even today, meanwhile Eureka is its own thing separate from the actual game and it's currently dead (or at least that's what I think coming from what people are saying) and that's not a good thing.

I like a few others in this topic enjoyed Eureka was the closest to FFXI, it was not perfect by any means but I liked it. I am just plodding along as do not do Savage I prefer a open world experience.
It was good because gave people a choice and more options. I never did the last part.

I am hoping they will be adding more eureka. Does anybody know if there will be or any news on the horizon?

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Relic has never been good at keeping the open-world alive, you have people forced onto doing boring content, RNG reliant and also force you to seen other players as competition. If they bring back something similar to the books you will be reading "Eureka was a better system. This is xxxxxx!" All the relic grind, with the exception of the first ARR step, have been bad.

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People do nothing but complain about relic on this forum. It's been that way as long as I've been here. Please please give us something new and the dev team does and as expected the standard fare is to continue to complain about relic.

I personally was super pleased to get something new. I've enjoyed the open world nature of Eureka and took many of my alts through the process. BA was quite fun and I sincerely hope we get something similar to BA in the next itineration of the relic process with an improved match making process.

I'd like to see something new this go around but some sort of blend with the open world used in Eureka would be more than fine by me. The last thing I want to do is to have to do more books, spam dungeons for RNG drops, collect 2 billion tomes and so on running old boring content.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

There's some variety in the dungeons at least, but ARR's grind wasn't really good. That and the old relic grinds were more accessible even today, meanwhile Eureka is its own thing separate from the actual game and it's currently dead (or at least that's what I think coming from what people are saying) and that's not a good thing.

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I have to admit, I particularly ignored all the Stormblood dungeons because they simply had no purpose once they were out of Expert Roulette. The Beast Tribes also fell into that same problem. Once you did their quest chain, there was no reason to ever talk with them again. EXP I guess but Heavensward's relic made both relevant throughout the expansion. That said, I'm not opposed to Eureka... if they actually improve upon it. Just another mindless "kill a bunch of trash and zerg down a NM" would be immensely disappointing.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

People do nothing but complain about relic on this forum. It's been that way as long as I've been here. Please please give us something new and the dev team does and as expected the standard fare is to continue to complain about relic.

I personally was super pleased to get something new. I've enjoyed the open world nature of Eureka and took many of my alts through the process. BA was quite fun and I sincerely hope we get something similar to BA in the next itineration of the relic process with an improved match making process.

I'd like to see something new this go around but some sort of blend with the open world used in Eureka would be more than fine by me. The last thing I want to do is to have to do more books, spam dungeons for RNG drops, collect 2 billion tomes and so on running old boring content.

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Could it because the relic chains tend to be uninspired? Both ARR and HW had horrendously tedious grinds, especially the former. Whereas Eureka was essentially a glorified FATE train where all we do is mindless kill mobs that have zero mechanics and aren't much of a threat. Had they taken some of the suggestions people offered following Anemos, like quest chain, hunting logs, possible challenges and etc. I wager there would be far less complaining.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I have to admit, I particularly ignored all the Stormblood dungeons because they simply had no purpose once they were out of Expert Roulette. The Beast Tribes also fell into that same problem. Once you did their quest chain, there was no reason to ever talk with them again. EXP I guess but Heavensward's relic made both relevant throughout the expansion. That said, I'm not opposed to Eureka... if they actually improve upon it. Just another mindless "kill a bunch of trash and zerg down a NM" would be immensely disappointing.



Could it because the relic chains tend to be uninspired? Both ARR and HW had horrendously tedious grinds, especially the former. Whereas Eureka was essentially a glorified FATE train where all we do is mindless kill mobs that have zero mechanics and aren't much of a threat. Had they taken some of the suggestions people offered following Anemos, like quest chain, hunting logs, possible challenges and etc. I wager there would be far less complaining.

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Oh I think they need to add more to something like Eureka than just the fate/nm spawns/kills. I would have been happy to see gathering/crafting allowed for example along with other ways to earn crystals etc. I'm not saying it was perfect but it was different and having 144 players in an open world/zone I found very entertaining personally.

Perhaps they'll take that to heart with the new relic we'll have to wait and see.

I like Eureka's concept but it's just poorly executed, somewhat tedious with the mechanics/gimmicks and not as accessible. To be honest Eureka isn't that different from FATE grinding in an otherwise instanced open world. The world is pretty but I wouldn't exactly count Eureka as something new and haven't seen before. BA is a decent addition even if it's flawed, but they added it too late when most people shunned Eureka ever since the beginning.

To the old relic grinds' merit, they did keep other content relevant, yeah. It's a mixed bag honestly. While I don't really want to see more of Eureka, I hope they impress us with the new iteration.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

The concept of what "end-game" means is pretty established, and has been for decades now.

Its content you do while at max level that progresses your character.

If it doesnt progress your character in some way, its not an end-game task.

If it can be done before end game, its likely not an end-game task; though more and more games are doing time-locked tradeskilling that you can do at lower levels but only benefit you at max level, because time-locked means fun! or something silly.

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What has been established? It is not the way I define it. Time to drop it folks. You can't change the world. Stop trying.

I just hope the next relic content focuses on the relic storywise again and not some place with relic just being there.

Next relic content, if they go with Eureka like content again at least have more options to work on your relic like crafting, gathering, exploring etc and not just boring mob grinding again, and if we get mob grinding again least let us able to do it solo. Also if they do BA like content again, just let us queue to it outside from the instance and not "have these items to enter this content" again please.

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Originally Posted by kunoz

tldr: why cant SE just make more contents for capped level only? at least i will feel like i achieved something for getting this far.

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bruh, it's patch 5.08. we're going to get tons of **** to do throughout this expansion but it hasn't started yet.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

What has been established? It is not the way I define it. Time to drop it folks. You can't change the world. Stop trying.

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I like how you ignored the other comments refuting your claim, as though singling out a single comment somehow makes your point more valid.

You are likely a troll, but I want to treat you like you genuinely believe what you are saying. In which case, I feel bad for you that you can't identify the structure of the game, you must get lost quite a lot.

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Originally Posted by Zazay

... I'm not even past Anemos yet. May proceed maybe at a later time.

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That’s one of the biggest issue of eureka type content and it deem to fail. You have to stick to the “majority of player base” to progress through this type of content. If you miss the initial train of progression, you will be left behind. There are also zero incentives for veteran player to go back to these content other than another outdated relic. Even if there reward for old player to return such content, the punishment for being having slightly larger level gap was not helping either.
Eureka is pretty much a one time hype content resembling the worst issues from old Korean made MMO and put it in FFXIV. I wish the dev learn from it and never made anything like that in the future

I'm... kinda confused. Where did all the people who loved Eureka come from all of a sudden? I thought it was content that was utterly despised for being shallow and poorly thought out, despite being an interesting concept. Sure, Baldesion Arsenal was cool and I'm glad I got my Demi-Ozma mount before the content died, but the rest was... not great. If you miss the 'Eureka experience', you can literally go to the final Shadowbringers area and just kill overworld mobs for two hours. That's literally the entire Eureka experience. Kill 100 overworld mobs, kill the one thinly-veiled hunt mark rebranded as a notorious monster, repeat ad infinitum until you're either level-capped or your arms fall off. Definitely not looking forward to the new one coming up in this expansion.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I just hope they won't lock anything remotely less grindy behind, well, dozens of hours of grinding, this time around. There needs to be more than just grinding and NM trains from the start.

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I do agree that the content should be a little more varied from the get go but, and this might sound elitist, stuff like Baldession Aresenal DEFINITELY should be locked behind a grind of some sort. That place almost requires prior knowledge and experience of how logos skills work and how certain mobs behave which some can be found in the grind that you experienced. I never ran into someone in BA who was as clueless as some of the DF people I meet sometimes. Can you be carried in BA? Of course but the chances of you surviving and making it to the end are really low if you do that.

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Originally Posted by Soupa

I do agree that the content should be a little more varied from the get go but, and this might sound elitist, stuff like Baldession Aresenal DEFINITELY should be locked behind a grind of some sort. That place almost requires prior knowledge and experience of how logos skills work and how certain mobs behave which some can be found in the grind that you experienced. I never ran into someone in BA who was as clueless as some of the DF people I meet sometimes. Can you be carried in BA? Of course but the chances of you surviving and making it to the end are really low if you do that.

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The problem with people who don't have a clue is they can wipe the entire raid. Only takes one mistake at Ozma to wipe everyone. I certainly hope we get more content like this it was pretty amazing. I don't raid but this although a bit intimidating at first was a blast for me.

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Originally Posted by Sapphire_Dianta

I'm... kinda confused. Where did all the people who loved Eureka come from all of a sudden?

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we were in Eureka while people complained about it. I do agree the enjoyment was pretty time-sensitive; I havent stepped inside ever since completing BA and finishing 3 relics, and that was maybe 2-3 weeks after Hydatos came out. I can't imagine going back in at this point, I would have to be in a severe content drought to be compelled to go back in for glam.

personally, it was fun for the same reason Borderlands is fun: it's only fun bc I had friends to play with.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

The problem with people who don't have a clue is they can wipe the entire raid. Only takes one mistake at Ozma to wipe everyone. I certainly hope we get more content like this it was pretty amazing. I don't raid but this although a bit intimidating at first was a blast for me.

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as chaotic as it was, I really enjoyed 1-6 people trying to organize 48-56 people in a battle [in the Baldesion Discord]. It didn't always work but eventually, we came together as a team and succeeded. It felt more of a triumph than any Savage I've done so far.

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Originally Posted by Sapphire_Dianta

If you miss the 'Eureka experience', you can literally go to the final Shadowbringers area and just kill overworld mobs for two hours. That's literally the entire Eureka experience. Kill 100 overworld mobs, kill the one thinly-veiled hunt mark rebranded as a notorious monster, repeat ad infinitum until you're either level-capped or your arms fall off. Definitely not looking forward to the new one coming up in this expansion.

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That is not an Eureka experience I know. In Eureka, there was a lot of danger zone that you cannot trespass unless you sneak in like a ninja. Thanks to that aspects, it made a lot of memorable experience in Eureka. Also, there was a lot of people in the zone that personally made me felt like the content was alive. Each different people would have a different purpose in that zone, for example, you would have a group that is farming for challenge logs, NM trains, bunnies, and quests. All these relates to grinding mobs for hours, but that's the WHOLE point of it, it is an eureka content and most IMPORTANTLY, an M M O R P G. Yes, there are better ways to handle things in Eureka to grind with some creativity, but you'll always have to grinds mobs. Not to mention, Eureka was pretty interactive. A lot of people would talk to each other and If I am gonna have to grind mobs for hours and hours, I rather do it in an OPEN WORLD with hundreds of players than do DUNGEONS with crappy players who doesn't even know how to play their job and waste 25 minutes of my time.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

Or, you know, like 80-90% of the playerbase noped the heck out of Eureka.

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And that's why more people did it compared to HW relic lol? The numbers are there you know.