Please let PS4 parse our dps like pc

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Originally Posted by MOZZYSTAR

So, wait... People can upload other peoples' performance stats without their consent?

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Yes, they can.

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

You say they will look, but not always.
While I can only go by examples of WoW, where it was common place, nearly 1 in 5 groups would do stuff like that.
IDK why, but the moment they start a vote kick, it always went through, so I can only assume the rest of the group just assumes they know what they are talking about.

Here, Ive only encountered it a small handfull of times, but most likely because people keep quiet about it. The few times it was brought up, was in voice chat, where they or myself, could speak up on their behalf AS its happening, so it doesnt get ignored.
(I think voice chat being more common, also helps fix this. When I hear a RDM saying "Ill rez them" to the healers, we all know what they are doing. Then again, pugs may be different, not sure how much pugs use voice chat.)

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Again, the ones that don't are dumb and we don't really care about them.

I can honestly assure you, that if someone's dps is below what it should be, people are going to look and see why. I can go by examples of people in this actual game, I can't go off WoW, I don't play WoW and the people in that game are different than here.

I've been in discords where people have discussed other players and they looked to see what was going on.
I've been in parties myself and looked myself.

Everyone isn't just super die hard numbers and nothing else matters unless it's like something drastic. Like a blm doing 3k dps in level 70/80 content...and even then people are going to look to see what he's doing wrong anyway.

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Originally Posted by Nims

Just putting this out there, most people that parse, if they see someone drastically under performing will look at the skills used. Once they see all the rezing, no one is going to count that against you. It also tells you how many times someone died and lets say both healers go down and you're there on your rdm and your dps dipped, they know it's because you're rezing.

I see examples like this thrown out alot, no one is that dumb. If they are, chances are they can't figure out how to get the parser installed and you can just flame them for being dumb.

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Most people as you said, but there also some who type a player name on fflogs, look at the rank his dps give him, and kick him a few seconds later if the associated color is not pretty enough for their tastes, not looking at anything else.

I still remember this SAM who was kicked 20 seconds top after joining a pf i was in, because "he is useless with a dps like that". His friend did leave as well after a bit of arguing, another player did leave as well saying this was rude, and the group did collapse from a single kick, 30 minutes of forming it wasted. So i did go check the SAM parses, expecting something veeeeeery low, and was like "uh what ?", because he was performing average enough to get the job done.

Now these kind of people sure use their parsers and fflogs wrongly, but even knowing that i dont feel at ease chain rezzing in raids, while i have a blast doing it in non-parsing content like hunts or Eureka.

Sometimes you don't need a parser to tell if DPS is lacking, especially in 4 player dungeons... Yesterday, had a Summoner with a lvl 56 weapon in Shisui. That's just straight up inconsiderate and quite frankly insulting. Using a weapon with 83 power, literally 1 power higher than Augmented Ironworks. Is it too hard to get a 113/114 power Shire weapon?

Even if its their first/main class, the game gives you a relevant weapon by doing the story.

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Originally Posted by ZellosWilder

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Yes I am a PS4 player and I have absolutely no issue playing with others or communicating with other people, to each their own. Personally I have the game playing from my TV, and the discord (though my phone) speaking out aloud and that works for me. Possibly you could also purchase a headphone splitter to receive sounds from two sources in to one if that is your concern.

Anyway as I said it's difficult to monitor voice chat in-game, and it's a transfer of data which the servers could probably do without. I don't know of any Pay to Play cross platform MMOs with voice chat...

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

fflogs

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My stance was more so about parsers like ACT. I don't really use fflogs and kind of forgot about that website, I like seeing stuff in action, so I can't really speak on that.

It's nice doing good dps you never get harassed, never experienced it once. I won't mind a personal parser.

How anyone still, to this day, can object to a personal DPS parser is beyond me. You guys know a personal DPS parser only tells you YOUR DPS right? Even if we put that aside though and say they added a party-wide DPS parser, would things really change? If you're going to get kicked for low DPS, you're already getting kicked for it. You think anyone who cares about DPS is playing on PS4 and using PF? Nah, they're on PC, and they can see exactly how much DPS you're putting out, and if they don't find it acceptable they'll make up an excuse to kick you. Nothing at all would change if they added a parser to the game, personal or otherwise, except show people where they actually stand in terms of performance. I know plenty of players who thought they were the best DPS on the block until they installed a parser and got a rude wake up call. But you know what they did with that data provided to them? Improved. They got better. No one's expecting you to be a top percentile DPS player, just to be good enough that we can reliably clear the content. Together. Because this is an MMO. And you're a part of a team.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Yes I am a PS4 player and I have absolutely no issue playing with others or communicating with other people, to each their own. Personally I have the game playing from my TV, and the discord (though my phone) speaking out aloud and that works for me. Possibly you could also purchase a headphone splitter to receive sounds from two sources in to one if that is your concern.

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Exactly you use the tv volume and I don't because 1. my tv audio sound is terrible which is why I invested in a good quality headset and 2. other people live in my house

Alot of other PS4 players will have the same issue as me.

Another reason would be when talking via a discord group out loud you don't want to hear background noises from the other players if you have the volume on your tv on then everyone else in the discord chat group will hear echoing or background sounds also not ideal and some groups won't allow that.

I'm afraid I'm gonna start sounding like an ESO shill since I have brought it up three times today now? Lol. But I'm here now for a reason. So, just to pull on an example from my past heartbreak:

ESO supplied target dummies to get around their refusal to accommodate damage meters. You fight the dummy, it takes damage until it dies, then it reports back to you in chat log what your DPS was. It's a great way to benchmark your own progress/ability and compare it to others' screenshots without anyone being able to snoop sans permission.

Caveat: it has become mandatory in progression guilds to screenshot your dummy parse and post it to them, so I'm not sure that it really helps privacy in the long run. If SE is more committed than ZoS to preventing "griefing", they might see no value in this contribution. /shrug

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

No thanks. I don't even like these tools. Last thing I want is someone berated me for not doing the DPS they feel I should be. Who the hell are you to determine how I should be handling my job.

These DPS parser tools really just lead to toxicity and nasty behavior from people who think they should be telling others how to play and what to do.

If I am doing my rotation as intended, and following the mechanics of the fight, leave me alone. I play for fun, not to be checking and calculating DPS numbers consistently.

This is why I stay out of Savage content, I don't need this kind of stress.

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Honestly, if somebody's berating you for numbers...that's probably not somebody you want to associate with, even in savage content.

THAT SAID, the parses themselves do have a place especially in savage content, IMO. Used properly, they help me see what I'm doing wrong (or right) and what I could potentially do better. This might not matter a ton when a fight is on farm, but when you're not clearing (or maybe when you barely cleared and want to ensure you start doing so in the future).

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

No thanks. I don't even like these tools. Last thing I want is someone berated me for not doing the DPS they feel I should be. Who the hell are you to determine how I should be handling my job.

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Probably the same person who's sick of carrying when they can see quite clearly exactly how you're handling your job.

The personal entitlement by people who are anti parser / anti accountability is actually incredible. OPs request, like every other ps4 player who comes here asking the same thing, is asking for a meaningful personal DPS metre for their own gameplay, not yours. If you want to stick your head in the sand and assume you're doing your rotation as intended, that's your right to do so and this thread is not contesting that.

If you're "handling your job" then anyone who says anything toxic is only just that.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Probably the same person who's sick of carrying when they can see quite clearly exactly how you're handling your job.

The personal entitlement by people who are anti parser / anti accountability is actually incredible. OPs request, like every other ps4 player who comes here asking the same thing, is asking for a meaningful personal DPS metre for their own gameplay, not yours. If you want to stick your head in the sand and assume you're doing your rotation as intended, that's your right to do so and this thread is not contesting that.

If you're "handling your job" then anyone who says anything toxic is only just that.

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I find with most of these threads most people are fine with some kind of personal DPS meter, but the threads then get derailed again by people demanding public parses.

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Originally Posted by LiteBrite

And yet the FFlogs are. With no parsers for ps4 players, yet they are judged on their FFlogs. I know completely fair...

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Yes it's fair. There are many good PS4 players that never used a parser.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Yes it's fair. There are many good PS4 players that never used a parser.

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No it isnt, and where is your proof? and this is a typical response from you.

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Originally Posted by LiteBrite

No it isnt, and where is your proof? and this is a typical response from you.

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A parser does help in improvement, but not the kind you think. It only shows you your current damage as a number. Is seeing your damage as a number the only thing you need to get better? And by better I mean going from gray to purple parse. But since you strongly believe that a parser is what will make a player a better player, then do explain how?

As for my proof, I showed you before a video of Yoshi P himself saying that a parser doesn't give players much of an advantage over others. Now show me your proof of the opposite.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

A parser does help in improvement, but not the kind you think. It only shows you your current damage as a number. Is seeing your damage as a number the only thing you need to get better? And by better I mean going from gray to purple parse. But since you strongly believe that a parser is what will make a player a better player, then do explain how?

As for my proof, I showed you before a video of Yoshi P himself saying that a parser doesn't give players much of an advantage over others. Now show me your proof of the opposite.

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That's not proof... You PC people cry and cry to keep you parser so you can git gud and us console peasants aren't allowed one. And you want to say that is fair? You are always white knighting and this is just common sense. If we don't need one you PC players don't need one. Its a double standard you trying to push.. If i said the water was wet, you argure and it isn't. But that's how you roll

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Originally Posted by snarkomatic

I'm afraid I'm gonna start sounding like an ESO shill since I have brought it up three times today now? Lol. But I'm here now for a reason. So, just to pull on an example from my past heartbreak:

ESO supplied target dummies to get around their refusal to accommodate damage meters. You fight the dummy, it takes damage until it dies, then it reports back to you in chat log what your DPS was. It's a great way to benchmark your own progress/ability and compare it to others' screenshots without anyone being able to snoop sans permission.

Caveat: it has become mandatory in progression guilds to screenshot your dummy parse and post it to them, so I'm not sure that it really helps privacy in the long run. If SE is more committed than ZoS to preventing "griefing", they might see no value in this contribution. /shrug

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This used to kind of be a thing with the Stone Sky Sea calculator. You could kill the dummy then go to the website enter in the details and it would tell you your dps. It hasn't been updated in a while though.

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Originally Posted by Magnedeus

No. I got enough crap with the Recount addon during my wow days. In fact, i once got kicked from a Kefka savage raid for low dps when i was obviously doing the best i could and reported the player that kicked me for parsing and harassment. i am 100% against it.

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With all due respect, the person kicking you for doing poorly in Savage is not the one who is toxic of the two of you, whether you were doing your best or not.

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Originally Posted by LiteBrite

That's not proof... You PC people cry and cry to keep you parser so you can git gud and us console peasants aren't allowed one. And you want to say that is fair? You are always white knighting and this is just common sense. If we don't need one you PC players don't need one. Its a double standard you trying to push.. If i said the water was wet, you argure and it isn't. But that's how you roll

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1- you have not yet explained how seeing your dps would greatly improve your game play (the way I described) .

2- people are using parsers to measure how high their dps is and try to increase it by reading guides, understanding their class rotation etc. . The parser also allows players to create the logs you see on FF logs that are helping them go that extra mile (not jump from gray to purple or even blue as you might think). And also it keeps record of the players performance that allows others to avoid bad players for high end duties. And if you're aiming for world first clears, which I'm sure you aren't, then the logs help you analyze the fight and what went wrong. And of course we have speed runners.

3- does any of the reasons I mentioned in point 2 apply to you? If it's the first reason, then congratulations the game already provides you an in game personal parser called Stone Sky Sea, which you probably never heard of. And if you don't know, you can Google how to measure exactly your Dps using it. So now what's your excuse now? If you have any other reasons for a parser, then state it.

4- I gave you what the game director said, and you're resorting to "but they said" as your proof. If you don't agree with yoshi P's statement, then provide numbers that show him wrong. Show that Ps4 players are performing badly compared to PC players (since you strongly believe so).

But I'm sure you'll dodge all these points as always.

I still feel the savage community has a legit unhealthy obsession with dps numbers. Not to say there aren't poor players like if a BLM is just casting ice over an over, however the raiding community as a whole from savage in my experience need to chill. But who knows, maybe I'm wrong as a casual hardcore player but imho it really isn't that hard to dps a lot... just hit things off cd, and land your combos.

Now more on topic, I'm against all forums of it myself as like with eso the community will just start demanding/threatning people to post screenshots. This isn't a issue a tool can fix, only peoples behavior and mindset.

Though legit parsers would happen before the savage community would ever take responsibility for fostering a negative environment with the mindset of "omfg gotta be doing 100% maximum dps ahhh!"

On the other hand, just because you pay a sub doesn't mean you are excused to play lazily. That's like saying I bought a ticket to Disney land so therefore I'm allowed to pee on the rides.

In short both sides can be stubbern af, stuck in their ways so I'm sure both of the extremes will just love my opinion :p

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Their usage is tolerated, as long as it's not used against other people

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No it's not.

I can care less about parsers, but read the rules before spreading that kind of falsehoods..

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■Behaviour that disrupts the game balance
Square Enix strictly prohibits the use of third-party programs or tools – including programs and tools that permit automated or “absentee” play – in Final Fantasy XIV. Accordingly, the following activities are prohibited:

- Modifying, analysing, integrating, and/or reverse engineering game software or data.
- Creating, distributing, using, or promoting utilities that interact with the game.

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Square Enix - Prohibited Activities

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

Honestly, if somebody's berating you for numbers...that's probably not somebody you want to associate with, even in savage content.

THAT SAID, the parses themselves do have a place especially in savage content, IMO. Used properly, they help me see what I'm doing wrong (or right) and what I could potentially do better. This might not matter a ton when a fight is on farm, but when you're not clearing (or maybe when you barely cleared and want to ensure you start doing so in the future).

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This is exactly why i would love my own personal dps parser. An official one, no less. I don't care about others DPS, knowing others is only useful for comparisons sake and isn't even reliable for that due to uncontrollable factors like rng procs and lucky crit streaks. But my own logs? I could see where exactly I could improve.

I KNOW I don't play 100% efficiently, probably more like 80% efficiently, and I honestly don't care about being perfect in the slightest... but that doesn't mean I don't want to improve myself by a little bit at least. 90% efficiency seems like a comfortable number to be at.

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Originally Posted by Ardox

No it's not.

I can care less about parsers, but read the rules before spreading that kind of falsehoods..



Square Enix - Prohibited Activities

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He's actually right. Yoshi P said that they're OK as long as you don't talk about them or abuse others. The TOS clearly says no, but they will only enforce it on those that abuse others with them.

https://youtu.be/3-WXYg-S05U?t=363

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

He's actually right. Yoshi P said that they're OK as long as you don't talk about them or abuse others. The TOS clearly says no, but they will only enforce it on those that abuse others with them.

https://youtu.be/3-WXYg-S05U?t=363

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I stand corrected.. Though that interview dates from 2014

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Originally Posted by Ardox

I stand corrected.. Though that interview dates from 2014

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That's true. But he still goes by it. He's been watching world first clears for ultimate and savage on twitch and all of them are using parsers but he never stated against it. It's the same rule for mods and reshade. Since they don't give any advatange for pc users over ps4 players. But you don't talk about them in game.

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Originally Posted by Ardox

No it's not.

I can care less about parsers, but read the rules before spreading that kind of falsehoods..



Square Enix - Prohibited Activities

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Interact: (to) act in such a way as to have an effect on another.
A parser does not have an effect on the game whatsoever. The game doesn't even know the parser exists. The parser doesn't even look at the game itself. The parser literally translates log files that are already saved on your computer to an easier format to read.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

That's true. But he still goes by it. He's been watching world first clears for ultimate and savage on twitch and all of them are using parsers but he never stated against it. It's the same rule for mods and reshade. Since they don't give any advatange for pc users over ps4 players. But you don't talk about them in game.

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Yes they do or PC players wouldn't use them. Stop lying...

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Originally Posted by LiteBrite

Yes they do or PC players wouldn't use them. Stop lying...

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What sort of advantage are you thinking of? Cause the most parsers do, is let you see if gameplay changes (such as rotation adjustments) cause improvement in real time or see whose slacking in your parties directly.

Theres no other advantage.

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Originally Posted by Typhoria

Interact: (to) act in such a way as to have an effect on another.
A parser does not have an effect on the game whatsoever. The game doesn't even know the parser exists. The parser doesn't even look at the game itself. The parser literally translates log files that are already saved on your computer to an easier format to read.

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If you want to play on words:
1) Interaction can be direct or indirect. If the parser change the player behavior, then you have a indirect relationship.
2) Parsing give you an advantage (which is also brohibited) — or it don't give you an advantage (so why use it?)
3) it also fall under analyzing and/or retro engineer the data

You might find the wording weak, but you would stand no change to fight a suspension of account with that argument

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

What sort of advantage are you thinking of? Cause the most parsers do, is let you see if gameplay changes (such as rotation adjustments) cause improvement in real time or see whose slacking in your parties directly.

Theres no other advantage.

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Maybe he is talking about ACT in general? Like mods telling mechanics like Naels quotes in ultimate just to give an example. That is the only mechanic in the game that I need a call and I hate it.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

What sort of advantage are you thinking of? Cause the most parsers do, is let you see if gameplay changes (such as rotation adjustments) cause improvement in real time or see whose slacking in your parties directly.

Theres no other advantage.

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It lets you know your dps numbers, so you can improve said numbers. And people get judged off FFlogs too based off ps4 players numbers, and only the PC players are allowed to break the rules and clearly get advantage over PS4 players, to make their FFlogs look good by using a parser. This double standard the PC players in this thread are to push is pathetic... PC players saying we deserve one and ps4 players don't need one is pretty selfish.

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Originally Posted by Ardox

If you want to play on words:
1) Interaction can be direct or indirect. If the parser change the player behavior, then you have a indirect relationship.
2) Parsing give you an advantage (which is also brohibited) — or it don't give you an advantage (so why use it?)
3) it also fall under analyzing and/or retro engineer the data

You might find the wording weak, but you would stand no change to fight a suspension of account with that argument

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Well you just cherry picked a portion of a rule that would seem to fit your argument.

■Behaviour that disrupts the game balance
Square Enix strictly prohibits the use of third-party programs or tools – including programs and tools that permit automated or “absentee” play – in Final Fantasy XIV. Accordingly, the following activities are prohibited:

- Modifying, analysing, integrating, and/or reverse engineering game software or data.
- Creating, distributing, using, or promoting utilities that interact with the game.
- Exploiting Square Enix programming bugs or glitches.
- Automating gameplay processes.

Emphasis on the part that is in bold. To even violate the latter parts, it has to be disrupting balance to begin with. Plainly viewing data that is already recorded by the game itself has no effect on the game balance. The data that this rule refers to is regarding positions and timers that would be used to automate. This would involve hacking into the game code itself, which again the parser doesn't do.

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Originally Posted by LiteBrite

It lets you know your dps numbers, so you can improve said numbers. And people get judged off FFlogs too based off ps4 players numbers, and only the PC players are allowed to break the rules and clearly get advantage over PS4 players, to make their FFlogs look good by using a parser. This double standard the PC players in this thread are to push is pathetic... PC players saying we deserve one and ps4 players don't need one is pretty selfish.

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So go to fflogs and look at your logs and see what you can do to improve. I am on PS4 and my friends upload logs for me and I go to the site and break down my logs and see what I am doing wrong and improve. I don't see the PC gamer as having an advantage since I can go to the site as well and use the information its not like the site says No you PS4 player you can't see this information. Sure would be nice to upload on my own but that is okay since someone else can upload and I still have access to the information.

I just want a personal parser. Is it that hard? I see the numbers spewing out of every enemy just let me have the option to see my dps. Even ESO has this option on consoles. Just make it so after a player gets out of combat it lets them know in the chat. Maybe some yellow text "Your dps for this encounter was 10,528"

It would be nice to have a little window to make visible in the hud that tracks and shows the number so I could glance after phases and see where I need to improve maybe with positioning or popping or holding cooldowns etc but if they can't do that just a report at the end of an engagement would be a huge help.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

What sort of advantage are you thinking of? Cause the most parsers do, is let you see if gameplay changes (such as rotation adjustments) cause improvement in real time or see whose slacking in your parties directly.

Theres no other advantage.

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They want to believe so hard that a parser will make them good. Can't help someone like that not even with a million parsers.

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Originally Posted by LiteBrite

It lets you know your dps numbers, so you can improve said numbers. And people get judged off FFlogs too based off ps4 players numbers, and only the PC players are allowed to break the rules and clearly get advantage over PS4 players, to make their FFlogs look good by using a parser. This double standard the PC players in this thread are to push is pathetic... PC players saying we deserve one and ps4 players don't need one is pretty selfish.

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You can see your numbers using SSS. Why aren't you doing so? I used that a lot of the times. :thinking:

Lol console peasants are hilarious

No to any parse on any platform.

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Originally Posted by Magnedeus

No. I got enough crap with the Recount addon during my wow days. In fact, i once got kicked from a Kefka savage raid for low dps when i was obviously doing the best i could and reported the player that kicked me for parsing and harassment. i am 100% against it.

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10 years of WoW. I never got dissed for my DPS.
You only get dissed if your performance is dissworthy and the easy solution to that is to play adequately.
You don't have to pull 95%+ parses for people to be satisfied. Play your class properly and you'll never need to worry about recount or any other parser.

@ topic: I have members that play on PS4 in my raid, I'm sure they'd be stoked about being able to use FFlogs w/o relying on me or other PC players.
Make it happen, SE!

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Originally Posted by LiteBrite

Congrats PC elitists on keeping the parser for yourselves, and being allowed to breaking the rules using third party software.

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You are using an objectively inferior platform and asking for a feature that isn't even officially supported, but rather possible due to the nature of the PC platform. It boggles my mind how entitled you have to be to not understand the difference. Square has nothing to do with the existence of parsing software. They are not going to add an official one just because the console peasants are rustled by not having it. PC has ALWAYS been the platform for addons and mods. This would be like a console player whining about not having the same access to Skyrim, Minecraft, etc. mods that PC players do. You chose to play on the inferior platform, so you don't get the same options - simple as that. It's always been this way.