The amount of runs to level trust should be lower.

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

If it was less/if they leveled together people would complain it was too fast and that there was no real reason to run them anymore since they are slower than actual players.

I posted this in another thread about Trusts but I'm going to say it again: Trust leveling is end game side content that is supposed to take time to do. Its is SUPPOSED to be a grind. Shared FATEs were supposed to be a grind but people got to Rank 2 within the first week of the Expansion and complaining there is not a whole lot for them to do now. Because people do things quickly and complain it's done. But when it takes time they complain it takes to long. SE pls.

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Yeah but like... there's no reward. Except what, a title? It's extra grindy side content for... what? What reason? So people don't have to play with other players??? Because that's literally the only benefit I can see at all. It's like half a step above grind for the sake of grind itself as far as I can tell.

I have done over the 6 runs and they are still only at 71. Guess this was intended to just help us get one job through to 80 along with the story but is not so friendly for other jobs.
Would have been great to alleviate those queue times but when you cannot do other dungeons.. well idk
Not only that why could we run with them to 80 and now reset back.

I mean i do not mind the trust but it needs improvements.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

So … Grind 6 boring low level dungeons that are level synced to get 3 squadron members to "good" states. Then do 6 more with 3 different ones and then a further 6 more for the last 2. So we're looking at 18 runs of low level, synced dungeon runs just to make our squadron "acceptable". OK
Then grind your way through dozens of more low level synced dungeons to get them to cap, 3 times over to get all 8 Squadron members levelled.

But before you can do ANY of that, you need to spam missions to rank up to a point where Command Missions unlock in the first place.
Continuing, I need to do 2~ 18 hour missions to get most of them a single level. So 36 hours per level on average. But only ever 4 at a time. And they can fail those missions, so its not always getting the best exp. OK.

And finally … Squadrons cant glam until they're 50. Trusts cant glam until they're 80. Neither can glam right off. Both require grinding to unlock it. Alisaie dropping an LB is a known part of per personality/programming. If you don't like it, take someone else.
Their lack of AoE is a counterbalance to the system so that playing with real people is more efficient. If Trust runs were exactly as fast as (or faster since they do most every mechanic perfectly) than DF runs, everyone would just use Trusts for levelling alt jobs exclusively.
The difference between a player run and a Trust run is a handful of minutes at worst. I just use it as an excuse to practice and optimize my single target rotations.

As such, I strongly disagree with your assertion than Squadrons are better.
They're also locked behind Grand Company ranks so are entirely locked off to new players until they're too high to benefit from the dungeons on their main job anyway.
which is much like how Trust levelling after you hit MSQ completion isn't worth much to your main job since its capped already, thus benefiting only alt jobs as well.
Compared to the Trusts, which are available through the MSQ and require no additional side grinds to make available in the first place.

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That is the cost vs. benefit between Trusts and Squadron. The availability of trusts to use in ShB leveling dungeons can help people level alt roles over time. However, they take a while from 25-30 minutes on average.

If you build up your squardron, they can help you clear dungeons faster and give you an instant queue on lower leveled dungeons that. Offensive 5 for your squadron party members is absolute beast.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

I'm not a fan of the whole delevel thing to begin with but if you're gonna do it, at least lower the number of runs needed. When you run a dungeon with trusts, you'll level up in 3 runs while they take 6. This causes you to stick to a lower level dungeon just for them since they level up twice as slow. It doesn't really make sense for them to level slower than you.

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Should be lowered to a max of 4 runs per level.

This is one of those discussions, where if Trusts didn't de-level and you could use them as normal in dungeons similar to pre-80, no one would ever dream of suggesting they should de-level or complain that Enix hadn't artificially gated them and slowed players down.

But when something that makes no sense is actually added to the game, you'll always get that little crowd who will defend it to the death. They could delete flying tomorrow, triple the amount of beast tribes quests required for max rep, reduce leve exp by 75%, add EX primals to leveling roulette and someone would defend it saying it's a good change and for the best.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

So … Grind 6 boring low level dungeons that are level synced to get 3 squadron members to "good" states. Then do 6 more with 3 different ones and then a further 6 more for the last 2. So we're looking at 18 runs of low level, synced dungeon runs just to make our squadron "acceptable". OK

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Or you could do it on a healer. Get the 2 dps you'll ever use Offensive and your tank whichever one you prefer. Its irrelevant on a healer, theyre not going to use damage abilities, never going to get targeted by anything, and have enough HP base to not die to room ae's. You now have a party of 4 to run squad missions for mgp/scrips and a 2 dps tank healer team to use in command missions. You can change their classes at will with books that are incredibly cheap once youve unlocked the rank (which you have to do before you have access to command missions).

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Then grind your way through dozens of more low level synced dungeons to get them to cap, 3 times over to get all 8 Squadron members levelled.

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You're also leveling them passively through training missions, which you'll be doing before you can even use them in command missions and can level them through squad missions. Mine were level capped faster than my squadron mission team just off getting alts through the Brayflox levels.

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But before you can do ANY of that, you need to spam missions to rank up to a point where Command Missions unlock in the first place.

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All of which give XP. To the point where they'll already be high enough level to jump into anything by the time you unlock it.

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And finally … Squadrons cant glam until they're 50.

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Which they'll be either by the time you unlock command missions, or a couple runs away (you cant start that process until you finish the 2nd tab mission).

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They're also locked behind Grand Company ranks so are entirely locked off to new players until they're too high to benefit from the dungeons on their main job anyway.

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You unlock them after Aurum Vale, provided you've been keeping up with the quests.

I'm not even remotely surprised that people are using bots to run trusts now (I almost immediately suspected this would happen the moment they were announced).

Or at least that's what I'm assuming that's what they're doing because they're known FATE botters who now spend virtually all of their time running either Holminster Switch or Qitana Ravel in the late hours of the day depending on what level they are. I assume they skip over Il Mheg and the other instances because the nature of some of the mechanics are not such that simply following the DPS AI's movements would prevent them from dying.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Couple things. There are 2 rewards for completing Trust leveling. Glamour options for them and I believe a title.

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You mean I can play dress-up Y'shtola?!

Damn might have to level them buggers after all.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

You mean I can play dress-up Y'shtola?!

Damn might have to level them buggers after all.

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If I saw it correctly, you just can choose between the ShB or their HW/SB outfit. Not "dress-up."

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Originally Posted by Cidel

If I saw it correctly, you just can choose between the ShB or their HW/SB outfit. Not "dress-up."

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MehMeh ... /sad Nopon

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

That requires you be leveling tanks, which not everyone does.

There should have probably been two tanks.

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Which would have been there if they did not somehow decide to take out two trusts from this system for no reason at all. x_X

I wanted to casually level GNB after my AST beat the story so I did FATES and Trusts, but now I have a problem.

I'm still unable to get out of Holminster Switch runs, most of my Trusts are lvl 72 and I'm 77. That in itself isn't so bad, but when I go to level a new job, even if I am lucky enough to get everyone to 73 to change up the dungeon, my only Trust Tank is 71 and will not be able to do anything but the Switch, which I've ran a large number of times. (At least I have every single piece of Lakewood equipment for all future jobs EXCEPT my GNB blade, but I digress).

No matter what, I will have to grind through the Switch like 12 more times just to get him to 73. That's not fun. The Switch isn't a fun dungeon when you have to run only it as a source for leveling your trusts.

So yes, as someone who is actively using the content and enjoys having the option, I would like at least some way to split up that initial Switch grind. Having multiple dungeons will make it better, but those first 3 trust levels are just blegh. I'm burnt out on it, it's not a hard dungeon but it's not a great dungeon. The banter/chatter is either silent or depressing.
Could I have planned the execution better? Sure but that wouldn't change how many Switch runs are needed to get a the levels for different content.

The amount of EXP they get should be higher to keep up with the player.

From the 5.05 patch notes:

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EXP gained by Trust NPCs has been increased.

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Go figure I got my last trust to 80 just before maintenance

Glad I put off using them. I'm still not a fan of trusts, I think they need more. But an improvement is an improvement.

I prefer playing with other players too, its way faster since everyone can aoe.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

From the 5.05 patch notes:

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Let's hope it went from 6 to 3 runs per level.

Something I'd like to know is if Trusts will be applied to all dungeons from here on out or just the Shadowbringers main storyline dungeons that came with 5.0. Because otherwise there is incentive to level them over having them available for the first 5 dungeons of the expansion.

Absolutely agree that the number of runs should be lower. It's kinda ridiculous TBH. After finishing the MSQ you have at least 1 job at level 80, so all other jobs get +50% of EXP gain. Combine it with other bonuses we have (rest, FC etc.) the amount of runs for you to level up is 2-2.5 times lower than your trust companions need to. IT'S DUMB. it's even more dumb if you level up few jobs at the same time, because you will outlevel them anyway and STUCK WITH THE DUNGEONS YOU'VE BEEN IT 100 TIMES ALREADY! It's just not fun. At all. i would like to play an actual game after day of working instead of lame and SLOW grind, because the trust companions don't even use any AoE and only kill one foe at the time... Please, SE, fix this.

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Originally Posted by Rakshazi

Absolutely agree that the number of runs should be lower. It's kinda ridiculous TBH. After finishing the MSQ you have at least 1 job at level 80, so all other jobs get +50% of EXP gain. Combine it with other bonuses we have (rest, FC etc.) the amount of runs for you to level up is 2-2.5 times lower than your trust companions need to. IT'S DUMB. it's even more dumb if you level up few jobs at the same time, because you will outlevel them anyway and STUCK WITH THE DUNGEONS YOU'VE BEEN IT 100 TIMES ALREADY! It's just not fun. At all. i would like to play an actual game after day of working instead of lame and SLOW grind, because the trust companions don't even use any AoE and only kill one foe at the time... Please, SE, fix this.

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Trust is an "Option", nothing more. I welcome this option a lot, since it will reduce my queue times for dps jobs (in the same dungeons you've been in for 100 times already), i will not have to wait for beast tribe quests,wont need to spam daily hunts or wait for the next deep dungeon.
Yes it is a bit annoying having to level them up and being stuck for 6-12 runs in the same dungeon until you can progress to the next one, but its completely optional to use the trust system, just queue up for dungeons,open up party finder groups for specific dungeons and do whatever you did before we had the trust system if you dislike it so much.

Btw gotta go check out how much they buffed the exp thy gain now,1k people in the queue.. :/.
(5.05 trust system exp buffed)

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Originally Posted by Maneesha

Trust is an "Option", nothing more. I welcome this option a lot, since it will reduce my queue times for dps jobs (in the same dungeons you've been in for 100 times already), i will not have to wait for beast tribe quests,wont need to spam daily hunts or wait for the next deep dungeon.
Yes it is a bit annoying having to level them up and being stuck for 6-12 runs in the same dungeon until you can progress to the next one, but its completely optional to use the trust system, just queue up for dungeons,open up party finder groups for specific dungeons and do whatever you did before we had the trust system if you dislike it so much.

Btw gotta go check out how much they buffed the exp thy gain now,1k people in the queue.. :/.
(5.05 trust system exp buffed)

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Where did you find me saying it's bad? I don't like the amount of times we spend in those dungeons to level them up, not that I dislike it. It's the GREAT option (as you called it) and I love it, but who told you it can't be better?! You are strange-strange person...

They have doubled the amount of exp per clear.

Holminster Switch 6.25mil
Dohn Meg 7.95mil
The Qitana Ravel 9.9mil
Malikah's Well 12mil
Mt. Gulg 14.35mil

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Originally Posted by RikiaReborn

They have doubled the amount of exp per clear.

Holminster Switch 6.25mil
Dohn Meg 7.95mil
The Qitana Ravel 9.9mil
Malikah's Well 12mil
Mt. Gulg 14.35mil

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This is more than enough incentive to level my Trusts. Thank you SE.

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Originally Posted by Rakshazi

Where did you find me saying it's bad? I don't like the amount of times we spend in those dungeons to level them up, not that I dislike it. It's the GREAT option (as you called it) and I love it, but who told you it can't be better?! You are strange-strange person...

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everything can be better and no matter how good a thing is, someone may still find a need/way to improve it (regardless if it needs improvement or not).... what i wrote was my opinion that the system is(was) fine and the amount of runs you do are not too much. as you pointed out correctly, its the same amount of runs we would have to do for a single job, with the exception that we get trash mob exp and have buffs from leveling another job to 80, fc buffs and food buffs, so that we actually out level our trust npc's we are doing the dungeon with.

dont understand what's "strange-strange" about me, maybe u can elaborate further :P

i never said you found it "bad". but the way you posted,the amount of complains and caps, didn't indicate you like it either.

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Originally Posted by RikiaReborn

They have doubled the amount of exp per clear.

Holminster Switch 6.25mil
Dohn Meg 7.95mil
The Qitana Ravel 9.9mil
Malikah's Well 12mil
Mt. Gulg 14.35mil

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yup more then doubled actually. from 2.5mil to 6.25mil for holminster. you may still outlevel them by about 700k-1.5mil, but they will be able to keep up with your jobs progression much better, or maybe not... dont remember how much exp exactly i received for 3 runs, may be exactly 6.25mil...

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Originally Posted by RikiaReborn

They have doubled the amount of exp per clear.

Holminster Switch 6.25mil
Dohn Meg 7.95mil
The Qitana Ravel 9.9mil
Malikah's Well 12mil
Mt. Gulg 14.35mil

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It looks like at least a 2.5x increase of xp based on the amounts I recall for the first two. For comparison:

Holminster Switch (before) 2500000 XP
Dohn Meg (before) 3190000 XP

My current party of NPCs (Thancred, Urianger, Ryne) are only level 74, so I hadn't gone on to do the rest, but I assume the increase is standard across the board. This is good though. It should only take an average of 3 runs per NPC for them to level now (6 runs to outlevel the dungeon), which will put them slightly ahead of the player (assuming only rested and armory xp buffs and no additional content completed) who will take an average of 7 runs to outlevel a given dungeon.