About the races we have.

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Originally Posted by Reitesu

I know they probably aren't going to make more races but, I'm kinda confused. I've been hoping for like a very feminine male race that can choose between that or being masculine. I know we have male Miqo'te but, their bodies sliders seem too limited for what I'm trying to bring up. I'm just curious we have Roe women who have the option to look beautiful or as masculine as possible. I'd like a male race with that type of change. xD I'd like to clarify this isn't to bash on overly masculine or feminine people I'm just curious. o:

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I always wanted a race for the men that looked kinda like Omega M. That old-school FF Yoshitaka Amano artwork look, it would be a great call-back. Maybe one day we'll have it.

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Originally Posted by dustdjinn

I think its really has to do with that fact that this "concern" for male characters looking feminine/young is always one sided. Female Au Ra are fine for some reason but a male being the same size gets so much hate and resistance. I don't think Viera males should look dramatically different to the ladies in the form of body type and height personally but the immediately accusations and "worrying" about how they will be used for people just suggesting it has really put a spot light on the fact that we aren't allowed to appear small, bookish or feminine if its a male character.

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I've seen plenty of people - myself included - speak out against the creepy comments aimed at both the likes Alphinaud and Alisae.

To be blunt, I also have very little patience for many of the players who push for feminine/androgynous aesthetics simply because it is never enough for them. Already most of the hairstyles are designed to adhere to a 'unisex' aesthetic, yet so many of them just adhere to feminine/androgynous aesthetics. The male version of the bunny suit went the same way after a lot of odd accusations flung at the development team.

I like guys. I'm one myself. I like playing guys who look handsome/masculine. That's a broad spectrum in itself.

If you really want to, you can already create a feminine/androgynous looking male character. That should be enough, especially given that it's a niche to begin with. I'd much prefer to see some focus on fixing things like the lack of authentic eyebrows for Highlander men.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I like guys. I'm one myself. I like playing guys who look handsome/masculine. That's a broad spectrum in itself.

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Speaking of that, I've seen the guys who are into the Hrothgar, or rather just bigger muscular men, or just masculine men in general get drowned out by so many who want the feminine aesthetic, or even 'child-like aesthetic'. Not everyone who wants a masculine male is some "right-winger" who wants all men to be masculine on principle, and are "scared" of the opposite, like I feel like we get painted. Things aren't black and white.

a lot of people just tend to play their fetish. i don't bother with that since i already have access to plenty of that material. i think roegadyn and hrothgar will appeal more to that demographic than any amount of people who just want to play a big buff guy. i just don't like roegadyn/hrothgar since they're comically buff and armor tends to look stretched on them which i find unappealing in an age where you're hard pressed to find gear that *doesn't* have an ass cape slapped onto it

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Speaking of that, I've seen the guys who are into the Hrothgar, or rather just bigger muscular men, or just masculine men in general get drowned out by so many who want the feminine aesthetic, or even 'child-like aesthetic'. Not everyone who wants a masculine male is some "right-winger" who wants all men to be masculine on principle, and are "scared" of the opposite like I feel like we get painted. Things aren't black and white.

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Yeah, there's a lot more I could say on the matter though one has to tread carefully when it comes to such subjects. I almost wish we were on the same server cluster so I could poke you sometime since we're often in agreement in various threads.

I do have a feeling that Hrothgar will do fairly well, for what that's worth. It's an odd situation, though. Midlander men already have a muscle tone slider and a height slider - as well as facial options that are very broad. You can make them look very muscled and ruggedly handsome. Or you can make them look very feminine/androgynous.

So I'm confused. Just how far do people want the sliders to go? After a point it just enters territory that is very odd and arguably inappropriate.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

You have too much faith in this world Senn. We share the forums with a good portion of degenerates.

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Maybe. It's just my mind doesn't immediately go straight to things of that nature. I'm really disturbed by some people and also disappointed that individuals like that are ruining something that's not inherently bad for others. It's just shameful. Until I read the live letter, I didn't even consider the sort of mods that were being created - and even the mods of the current models are so distasteful.

I want to say that it's not inherently bad to ask for a character similar to Alphinaud. I've done it myself, although it's because I didn't really know what other examples to use. A while ago someone mentioned omega m body type and I thought that worked as a better reference. I really hate that people immediately accuse others of nefarious behavior. Some people would just like a character like that and have no ill motivations, and I think accusing people with no basis is not only shameful, but really damaging as well. It's a really severe accusation that should not be tossed around so lightly, and I've seen it being tossed around very, very lightly.

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Originally Posted by Edax

When they said "no new races", I take that as code that the Hrothgar and Viera will have their respective genders filled out the expansion after Shadowbringers.

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7.0 is kinda the end of the rope, the game will be pretty much over storyline wise and they will be doing another FF MMO, new engine new everything

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

I always wanted a race for the men that looked kinda like Omega M. That old-school FF Yoshitaka Amano artwork look, it would be a great call-back. Maybe one day we'll have it.

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I'm pretty sure Omega is using an Elezen base model.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...92844c7229.jpg

Neck proportions are different of course, and Omega is slimmer in the torso, but that's partly due to the outfit. (I've tried the Omega gear on my Elezen since making this comparison screenshot, and it does change the apparent proportions.)

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

Height is a major one because it can make and break a character for people. When you pair femininity with small the image that comes to mind is a young male that has yet to go through their final growth spurt. It's also why it's actually more attractive for women and some men of course - to go for people who are 'taller' than them. It's not always the case, but it seems to be. Just like how some men prefer their women to be small and do not like it when a woman is taller than them. I also think it's some sort of subconscious wiring in us that 'taller' in most scenarios = more dominant. And why whenever we see animals these days where an alpha exists, they are taller/bigger - compared to the smaller version which is seen as 'Omega/Beta'. It's old and archiac of us, but it's just how we're wired.

I personally find young, feminine looking men who are small to be too feminine or are adolescents.

I can handle being a max height hyur as they're not that small - they're the average human height worldwide. Male Miqote and Female Au'ra are actually reasonable heights in eastern countries. That being said, female Au'ra's height difference compared to the males is absolutely ridiculous and shouldn't be repeated.

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I mean I think anonymity adds to the subconscious interests. I mean, the compulsive need to represent what you like in a video game be parrelled to adolescent children speaks volumes, the fact yoshi p had to specify that with a subtle hint to acknowledging what people truly want, just speaks volumes again of what these people are interested in. We can dance around the issue forever, we cannot ever directly discuss or confront it because people lose their sh*t if you akin them to liking children, even if true deep down in a subconscious level.

So the answer is to push the boundaries as far as possible by asking for pseudo ways to achieve this. More feminine short boy races, is one pseudo way to ask.

EdIT: what's up with hating being tall?

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

Height is a major one because it can make and break a character for people. When you pair femininity with small the image that comes to mind is a young male that has yet to go through their final growth spurt. It's also why it's actually more attractive for women and some men of course - to go for people who are 'taller' than them. It's not always the case, but it seems to be. Just like how some men prefer their women to be small and do not like it when a woman is taller than them.

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I'm not sure how true this is, I'm taller than my husband, and my brother's wife is taller then he is. Most super models are rather tall also.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

People fear feminine men and masculine women (bonus points if they're tall). We're lucky we have the latter at all.

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No one fears them, people just have preferences on what they like to see.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

It's not a need, it's a want and really the reason simply is options. Hopefully if they ever get added Viera males fill the niche just like I hope if Hrothgals get added they are as muscular as their male counterparts and not just fuzzy femroes.

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This literally sounds like you want it for a fetish reason.

Honestly, I don't quite understand what some people thinks that "cute" means. Some says that anything besides the bara races is "cute", including those edgy lords au ri, the humans who isn't some wood cutter or those elezen who have twice the Alphinauld's weight. And male miqo'te isn't cute. Period.

The only option to people who wants to do an bookworm guy with round glasses (a build that makes sense if he's an SCH) is Lalafell. Everything else will be awkward. There is no way to make an convincing nerdy guy out of a muscular character.

Wants to see another example of cute, feminine guy that can work? Watch ANY kpop show. Nu'est Ren could be an prime example of that.

And I get some likes manly men. But, please, don't force me to play as one. You already have your manly men options. Let me have my cute guy build.

Where do y'all live where feminine guys are all child-like? It's super weird how people conflate men being feminine with looking young. Of course, the same people probably have no problem with extremely young looking female characters (I see all of you with your uwu waifus).

I'm sure my partner would love more options to make his character more feminine looking while still being a dude, because that's how he is. Some of you say it's just 'preference' and people want their characters to look like themselves, but apparently that line of thinking stops with feminine men?

And why is it only feminine men that people are complaining about, do people forget that masculine women were also mentioned? Is it because people see being feminine as shameful or undesirable? Like how a woman in pants is fine but a man in a skirt is punchline.

inb4 I get eaten alive for this post

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I'm pretty sure Omega is using an Elezen base model.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...92844c7229.jpg

Neck proportions are different of course, and Omega is slimmer in the torso, but that's partly due to the outfit. (I've tried the Omega gear on my Elezen since making this comparison screenshot, and it does change the apparent proportions.)

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No people want twinks because mu representation.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Where do y'all live where feminine guys are all child-like? It's super weird how people conflate men being feminine with looking young. Of course, the same people probably have no problem with extremely young looking female characters (I see all of you with your uwu waifus).

I'm sure my partner would love more options to make his character more feminine looking while still being a dude, because that's how he is. Some of you say it's just 'preference' and people want their characters to look like themselves, but apparently that line of thinking stops with feminine men?

And why is it only feminine men that people are complaining about, do people forget that masculine women were also mentioned? Is it because people see being feminine as shameful or undesirable? Like how a woman in pants is fine but a man in a skirt is punchline.

inb4 I get eaten alive for this post

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Likewise, who the hell are you to judge others for their preferences. I like my men tall, rugged, muscled, masculine. I don't find feminine males appealing in the slightest, but that's just me. But because of that, according to your immediate lashing out on the first couple of pages, I'm apparently labelled as a coward?

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Originally Posted by Leomoon

No people want twinks because mu representation.

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What's wrong with requesting a body type like omega m's? Why give people such a hard time for a request like that? I really don't get it. Just let people want what they want.

Such a weird double standard happening here.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I'm pretty sure Omega is using an Elezen base model.

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I was meaning more like the facial features, but it is interesting to see that Omega M uses the same frame.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

I was meaning more like the facial features, but it is interesting to see that Omega M uses the same frame.

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I think it's a modified elezen base, not a vanilla elezen base. I would really love if male viera had that body type because it's close to Yoshi P's description of viera, and it fills the niche that elezen fails at. All the proportions are fixed and it looks cool.

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Originally Posted by Senn

What's wrong with requesting a body type like omega m's? Why give people such a hard time for a request like that? I really don't get it. Just let people want what they want.

Such a weird double standard happening here.

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they just showed there is a body type like Omega.

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

Honestly, I don't quite understand what some people thinks that "cute" means. Some says that anything besides the bara races is "cute", including those edgy lords au ri, the humans who isn't some wood cutter or those elezen who have twice the Alphinaud's weight. And male miqo'te isn't cute. Period.

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"Cute" has multiple meanings. Small-and-cute is the primary one of course, but can also mean "attractive" for certain types of looks.

I absolutely consider my Au Ra alt to be "cute", especially if he's smiling or doing other emotes instead of the normal straight face. (But I wouldn't call my Elezen alt cute; he's more elegant.)

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

The only option to people who wants to do an bookworm guy with round glasses (a build that makes sense if he's an SCH) is Lalafell. Everything else will be awkward. There is no way to make an convincing nerdy guy out of a muscular character.

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The thing is, as soon as you put a character in full-length clothing, they stop looking muscular - some races more than others, of course, but if you can't see that the underlying character model is muscular then you can pretend they aren't.

You could definitely do the "bookworm guy with glasses" character archetype with Midlander or Miqo'te. I'd go for face #3 Miqo'te (eg. G'raha) if I was making a character like that.

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Originally Posted by Leomoon

they just showed there is a body type like Omega.

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Omega uses a modified elezen base. It's not the same. Omega m's proportions look so much better. No giraffe neck or awkward looking limbs. Omega m has a thinner torso, thinner arms, and they just look much more elegant.

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Originally Posted by Senn

Omega uses a modified elezen base. It's not the same. Omega m's proportions look so much better. No giraffe neck or awkward looking limbs. Omega m has a thinner torso, thinner arms, and they just look much more elegant.

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Ok sure whatever man.

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Originally Posted by Leomoon

Ok sure whatever man.

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"It's a similar build but doesn't conform to my specific preferences therefore it doesn't count."

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Originally Posted by Senn

Omega m has a thinner torso, thinner arms, and they just look much more elegant.

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As I said when I first posted the picture, that's partly down to the shirt he's wearing. (I didn't get the screenshot specifically for comparison, or I would have picked something more form-fitting.) you can see from the wrists relative to the sleeves that he'd look slimmer without it.

The proportions like hand size and arm length are definitely using the same skeleton. That's what made me notice in the first place.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

"It's a similar build but doesn't conform to my specific preferences therefore it doesn't count."

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A lot of people are put off by elezen's proportions and for good reason. I would like male viera to do the elegant/woodland folk niche justice. That's all.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

"It's a similar build but doesn't conform to my specific preferences therefore it doesn't count."

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I do think the Elezen body's could use a upgrade but I would say that for every model in game. From what I hear all the 2.0 stuff is low texture models to be honest I would love if all the 2.0 and 3.0 stuff all got a HD makeover.

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Originally Posted by Senn

A lot of people are put off by elezen's proportions and for good reason. I would like male viera to do the elegant/woodland folk niche justice. That's all.

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they are based of the XI elf model.

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Originally Posted by Senn

A lot of people are put off by elezen's proportions and for good reason. I would like male viera to do the elegant/woodland folk niche justice. That's all.

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The question I would then ask, is where do we draw the line? Say you get what you want, but the arms are too thin for someone else. What then? Let's make a new race for that one incredibly niche preference!

It's exhausting seeing how nitpicky people are about this sort of thing, but a line has to be drawn somewhere otherwise we'll never hear the end of it.

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Originally Posted by Leomoon

I do think the Elezen body's could use a upgrade but I would say that for every model in game. From what I hear all the 2.0 stuff is low texture models to be honest I would love if all the 2.0 and 3.0 stuff all got a HD makeover.

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But then there are people who would be very upset if their characters were changed. Some people like the giraffe neck. I hate it personally, but we can't change what's already in the game, and I don't think the devs will update the character creator in such a way where you can adjust the limbs and the shape of the body. Yoshida already stated in an interview that instead of making it so you can change the shape of your character, they would rather just make a new race.

This is why I hope if male viera comes out, they will do what elezen could not.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

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Most male characters have big biceps, even elezen. There are options for people already out there, but none for people who want something thinner.

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Originally Posted by Senn

A lot of people are put off by elezen's proportions and for good reason. I would like male viera to do the elegant/woodland folk niche justice. That's all.

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We heard this the first time.

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Originally Posted by Senn

But then there are people who would be very upset if their characters were changed. Some people like the giraffe neck. I hate it personally, but we can't change what's already in the game, and I don't think the devs will update the character creator in such a way where you can adjust the limbs and the shape of the body. Yoshida already stated in an interview that instead of making it so you can change the shape of your character, they would rather just make a new race.

This is why I hope if male viera comes out, they will do what elezen could not.

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You are literally arguing semantics now to where its down to peoples personal preferences. I like Miqo'te to look more like Mithra but I am not gonna make a huge huff about it. As well you are not helping my idea that this is all just for a fetish thing because you are wanting something so precises it is questionable.

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Originally Posted by Senn

Most male characters have big biceps, even elezen. There are options for people already out there, but none for people who want something thinner.

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You completely missed my point to talk about arm size, which was not my intent, so I'll use myself as an example.

I like strong looking, tall, masculine, rugged men. What are my options? Well there's Roegadyn, but they're too thick and comical. There's Highlander, but their lack of natural eyebrows is disgusting to me. Au Ra? Freakishly tall but well built with a silly run animation. Elezen? Giraffe neck, enough said. See where I'm going with this? My perfect body type would be something in between a Highlander/Au Ra, but I will never have that, it's way too specific to only my tastes, so I just have to make do with what we've got. Likewise, if you want a slender male, you have to take what you can get with Elezen/Midlander. Maybe Viera would fit the bill, maybe not. But we can't keep pandering to each individual's personal tastes or we would end up with a million different races.

We know extensive body part silders/customisation is completely out of the question too, so there's no point even suggesting that.

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Originally Posted by Leomoon

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I'm not really make a huge huff about it though. I'm just saying if male viera ever get released, I'd like them to have a build like omega m's.
It seems like other people who are getting aggressive towards those who are just posting what they would like to see, specifically to people who would just prefer something slimmer. I don't think there should have been a comment made about people being cowards, but I didn't do that. All I did was state what I'd like to see added personally.

You get used to the weird Elezen proportions really, especially if you pick clothes with high collars so it's less noticeable.

(My Midlander's head looks cartoonishly oversized when I go back to her...)



(Edit: have hit the post limit for now, so no more replies from me.) :(

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

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Ok, but it doesn't hurt for people to request that. If there's something you want, you're free to request it too, you know. It may not happen, but I don't see a problem with requesting something. And I think if male viera were to be added, and because of how Yoshida described their appearance, I think something like omega m would be within the realm of reality. Male viera were described as elegant, handsome, slim, and we also have some of the concept art to go off of. Maybe his description or the concept art isn't 100% going to happen exactly like that, but this isn't some arbitrary body type or image of viera I just made up.

Back in my day character customization threads used to be about asking for more facial features and not a violent forceful injection of gross real life politics into a video game.

It kinda annoys me that I can't make a Character that looks like Bartz, Cecil, WoL or any of the old style FF characters. Elezen I guess comes the closest, but not really. They have a kind of feminine (yet still somehow masculine) face that you can't get currently in FF14.
As for short, maybe some people really enjoyed FF9 and want a Character like Zidane.

Senn you should probably take a break from responding to people with differing opinions. How you handle it seems to work fine in your thread but it's not working for you in this one. If you don't like what someone else is saying, ignore it. Don't get baited into getting reported.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

It kinda annoys me that I can't make a Character that looks like Bartz, Cecil, WoL or any of the old style FF characters. Elezen I guess comes the closest, but not really. They have a kind of feminine (yet still somehow masculine) face that you can't get currently in FF14.
As for short, maybe some people really enjoyed FF9 and want a Character like Zidane.

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If we were in a perfect world every game would have a black desert character creations system with body proportions. But we don't and honestly I know it is impossible for that. due to skeleton issues.

As much as I would like people to enjoy every game they play but not every game is gonna have 100% of everything you want.