Kneejerk reaction to PLD changes.

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Originally Posted by mrt617

I like a lot of the changes with PLD, and in a vacuum it is a huge win, but looking at what Warriors got it seems like we are getting left behind. Warriors got a better version of intervention (nascent flash which reduces dmg by 10% and heals), a better version of veil (shake which has a lower cooldown and can be scaled up by sacrificing other abilities), and an equal version of sheltron (raw intuition which costs no gauge and can be used every 30s). Plus on top of that they get Thrill of battle which heals them by 20%, increases their max hp by 20%, and increases incoming healing by 20%. On top of that they get equilibrium which is a free heal ogcd. What is it with SE's love affair with Warrior.

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Also 5x Fell Cleave and their 950 potency direct crit Feller Cleave. As is, I don't see PLD or DRK ever being picked for anything if a WAR or GNB is available.

I don't know, PLD is dishing out some huge potencies as well. Atonement spam @ 550x3. Holy Spirit @ 525x4. 1200 Potency AoE Confiteor. (Due to Requiescat buffing these by 50% instead of 20% now.)

Paladin damage is always about consistency unlike war burst damage...

I like a lot of paladin change from what i read, and we got flashier effect! I think...

Need tl play it before the verdict though

Cover shouldn't use gauge, full agreement on that point.

Honestly people are blowing stuff way out of proportion with "mitigation lost" if you need an extra CD, we have a passive 20% DR, you run out of CDs? your co-tank can provide one, they buffed oath gauge building if you read any of the tooltips, so both autos and RA gives oath gauge, you won't be spending sheltron like crazy fishing for Shield swipe procs anymore, so you will have extra gauge to sit on, and sure Divine Veil could still do with some QoL adjustments, say affect the PLD also, maybe have oGCD heals will also proc it, but it has it's niche to maximise it's duration but not gonna cry over it. The nerf/ buff on Sentinel is fine, the extra 10% never made a massive difference, found myself more complaining at how long I had to wait for it, also Vengeance had a 5sec duration nerf if you wanna go tit for tat. Sure cover got nerfed some, but it was too broken in SB, could cheese the tank share in 12s as the most notable frequent use of it.

As for the potency buffs, they are insanely nice to get compared to the potencies of the other tanks, as for the comment about feller cleave, they are only achievable via infuriate (can only stack 2) so good luck getting 5 of them and you surely won't waste em under IR either. Also we finally get real meaningful AoE that compliments PLD's ST rotation which is really nice to have after 6 years. Honestly, PLD got some really nice changes for ShB mostly all positives, free gap closer, the lvl 78 trait is awesome, no more worries about losing a HS cast under req because of mechanics and can finally block while in req, my biggest gripe is gone.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

Honestly people are blowing stuff way out of proportion with "mitigation lost" if you need an extra CD, we have a passive 20% DR, you run out of CDs? your co-tank can provide one, they buffed oath gauge building if you read any of the tooltips, so both autos and RA gives oath gauge, you won't be spending sheltron like crazy fishing for Shield swipe procs anymore, so you will have extra gauge to sit on, and sure Divine Veil could still do with some QoL adjustments, say affect the PLD also, maybe have oGCD heals will also proc it, but it has it's niche to maximise it's duration but not gonna cry over it. The nerf/ buff on Sentinel is fine, the extra 10% never made a massive difference, found myself more complaining at how long I had to wait for it, also Vengeance had a 5sec duration nerf if you wanna go tit for tat. Sure cover got nerfed some, but it was too broken in SB, could cheese the tank share in 12s as the most notable frequent use of it.

As for the potency buffs, they are insanely nice to get compared to the potencies of the other tanks, as for the comment about feller cleave, they are only achievable via infuriate (can only stack 2) so good luck getting 5 of them and you surely won't waste em under IR either. Also we finally get real meaningful AoE that compliments PLD's ST rotation which is really nice to have after 6 years. Honestly, PLD got some really nice changes for ShB mostly all positives, free gap closer, the lvl 78 trait is awesome, no more worries about losing a HS cast under req because of mechanics and can finally block while in req, my biggest gripe is gone.

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This. I'm all in all estatic about the changes. Granted, I'm casual filth who mostly does dungeons and normal mode raids, so our place in 'the meta' doesn't much concern me. But from my perspective, the additional aoe will make dungeons/aoe situations FAR more interesting, on top of the gap closer and requiscat making spells instant being icing on the cake.

Sure it's a bummer losing shield swipe, and having cover cost oath, but the positives from my perspective far outweight the few negatives.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

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The thing with the passive mitigation is every tank is going to have that so I'm assuming auto attacks and tank busters are going to do more damage now to make up for that. The only tool tip I have seen for gauge building is you build 5 points on auto attack (which is the same as now) I have not seen any tool tip mentioning RA builds oath gauge. It's hard to say if we are going to have gauge to sit on without knowing how the new fights will go. I am nervous though now that cover costs 50 gauge but we shall see. I like the Sentinel change that extra 10% wasn't worth much and having a shorter cool down is nice. Cover was op but at the same time it was basically having an extra cd and with the change it could still be easily used to cheese that tank share buster in o12s you would just need a cooldown with it like rampart or maybe even a good shield from the healers and sheltron would be enough. I think losing its damage mitigation ability was fine until I saw that War now has raw intuition every 30s and Thrill of battle and DRK still has dark mind every minute plus TBN is 25% shield. Plus to lose bulwark/awareness which was great for autos is just too much. With cover we were at least on par with what other tanks brought to the table in terms of mitigation, but now it feels like we are behind again.

Paladin DPS changes are great and I am very excited for them. I would give them a 11/10 on pld if we still had bulwark/awareness and cover cost gauge but kept the 20% mitigation. Right now it's a 5/10, DPS is great, but the mitigation is poor compared to what we had and to what other tanks gained.

I could only promise that when playing a PLD I WILL NOT pull twice for dpses who are mindlessly damaging mobs during a pull to take the aggro back from them.
I am more than sure that SE has not give any enmity scaling on total eclipse, if its going to generate the same enmity as it is now in tank stance then rekt in peace paladin in dungeons.

OP, why did you oh so conveniently leave out:

-Divine Veil (10% HP Shield for party)
-Intervention (10% to target)
-Passage (15% to party)

...but then made sure to include all of the other tank's skills? Sounds like you're trying to stir the pot.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

This. I'm all in all estatic about the changes. Granted, I'm casual filth who mostly does dungeons and normal mode raids, so our place in 'the meta' doesn't much concern me. But from my perspective, the additional aoe will make dungeons/aoe situations FAR more interesting, on top of the gap closer and requiscat making spells instant being icing on the cake.

Sure it's a bummer losing shield swipe, and having cover cost oath, but the positives from my perspective far outweight the few negatives.

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You make a good point Paladin will actually be fun to play in dungeons now. My problem is most of my time I spend in the game will be in savage and ultimate content and I want to have just as many tools as the other tanks when it comes to mitigating damage. So for dungeons the changes are glorious and Paladin may be the best tank for dungeons now, but I don't like what we have to give up when it comes to abilities for Savage and Ultimate content. Of course until we see the fights it's really hard to know if we will be in good shape or not.

It may have been that I misread about RA but nonetheless changes that most likely we will be sitting on more gauge than we need to spend, and I mean sheltron mitigates more dmg and is more frequent to use than RI, so don't see there being a problem. And tbh, I genuinely feel you're overreacting to the nerf on cover, which was too broken in it's current iteration.
Tank stance significantly increase enmity so there should be no issue losing aggro so long as you actually press your AoE buttons in the right order.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

It may have been that I misread about RA but nonetheless changes that most likely we will be sitting on more gauge than we need to spend, and I mean sheltron mitigates more dmg and is more frequent to use than RI, so don't see there being a problem. And tbh, I genuinely feel you're overreacting to the nerf on cover, which was too broken in it's current iteration.
Tank stance significantly increase enmity so there should be no issue losing aggro so long as you actually press your AoE buttons in the right order.

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It takes about 20 seconds to generate 50 gauge right now vs 25s for raw intution so it is a little better as long as you can auto-attack the boss. So we have it a little better there, but on top of that Warriors get Thrill of battle which not only boosts max hp by 20% it also heals and gives them a 20% boost to healing. They also have a free 1200 potency heal in equilibrium now. So they have an ability almost as good as sheltron plus 2 abilities we don't have. So in a vacuum the cover changes are no big deal, but to see how warriors mitigation got buffed while we got cover mitigation taken away as well as bulwark it seems like we are losing ground now when it comes to what we bring to the table in terms of single target mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

OP, why did you oh so conveniently leave out:

-Divine Veil (10% HP Shield for party)
-Intervention (10% to target)
-Passage (15% to party)

...but then made sure to include all of the other tank's skills? Sounds like you're trying to stir the pot.

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Xeno pointed out that divine veil is based on if the healers heal you. So proc based and not instant.

Intervention is nice but not better than gunbreaker 15% to target

Passage is 15% but animation lock while gunbreaker is not animation locked.

They should still be included like you said but they have their faults.

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Originally Posted by mrt617

Warriors got a better version of intervention (nascent flash which reduces dmg by 10% and heals)

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Meanwhile, Paladins' Intervention is enhanced by other cooldowns like Rampart or Sentinel and they have alternatives in Cover or Clemency if the other person is low on health. Nascent Flash is almost a cross between elements of Intervention, Clemency and Aurora, with Warrior's unique take on it.

Warrior's version is smart because Warrior is about vitality, self-heals and absorbing health from attacks, unlike Paladin that is about powerful mitigation and casting spells like Clemency. Warrior's kit isn't necessarily better, just different and each have different situations in which they will be most ideal.

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Originally Posted by mrt617

a better version of veil (shake which has a lower cooldown and can be scaled up by sacrificing other abilities)

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While it's difficult to argue that Paladin's is better, it's not necessarily problematic. A warrior might use theirs when people are at full health but about to get hit, while a paladin might use theirs when people are at low health, about to get healed and then take yet another heavy hit.

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Originally Posted by mrt617

an equal version of sheltron (raw intuition which costs no gauge and can be used every 30s).

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Paladin can use Sheltron twice in a row because of its 5 second cooldown, making it last a total of 12 seconds at full oath gauge if absolutely needed.

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Originally Posted by mrt617

Plus on top of that they get Thrill of battle which heals them by 20%, increases their max hp by 20%, and increases incoming healing by 20%.

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Let's be real. Paladin has enough defenses and healing tools and won't have any problems.

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Originally Posted by mrt617

On top of that they get equilibrium which is a free heal ogcd.

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Warrior has to settle for only being able to do that every 60 seconds, while Paladin can pretty much spam Clemency on themselves all day long, the flexibility of which is very useful, especially when everyone decides to wipe in O12 so you have to solo the end of it.

Paladin might not have an oGCD heal, but to make that the case they would have to homogenize the tanks, something people are already complaining has occured too much. I suspect that whether they homogenize or not, someone will criticise them.

They would also have to trample on the idea of paladin being partly a spell caster, which for me is important and part of what I enjoy most about paladin.

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Meanwhile, Paladins' Intervention is enhanced by other cooldowns like Rampart or Sentinel and they have alternatives in Cover or Clemency if the other person is low on health. Nascent Flash is almost a cross between elements of Intervention, Clemency and Aurora, with Warrior's unique take on it.

Warrior's version is smart because Warrior is about vitality, self-heals and absorbing health from attacks, unlike Paladin that is about powerful mitigation and casting spells like Clemency. Warrior's kit isn't necessarily better, just different and each have different situations in which they will be most ideal.

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Nascent Flash now that I think about it is probably even with intervention because the healing won't be that much, but also at the same time it's very rare for a Paladin to use a rampart or sentinel with an intervention because we would be saving it for tank busters at least in Savage content.

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While it's difficult to argue that Paladin's is better, it's not necessarily problematic. A warrior might use theirs when people are at full health but about to get hit, while a paladin might use theirs when people are at low health, about to get healed and then take yet another heavy hit.

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In Savage content they are split between raid wides that go out. So one raid wide would get a shake for everyone and for the next one the Paladin would let the healer know that he has popped veil and the healer would use a heal to pop it. So in general they are used the same at least in difficult content.

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Paladin can use Sheltron twice in a row because of its 5 second cooldown, making it last a total of 12 seconds at full oath gauge if absolutely needed.

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If fights stay the same I doubt a Paladin would ever do that unless there are 2 tank busters in close proximity. Sheltron is a little better than Raw intuition as long as there aren't long breaks where the boss can't be auto-attacked.

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Let's be real. Paladin has enough defenses and healing tools and won't have any problems.

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Yes I'm sure all tanks won't have any problems clearing content. That's not the point. Paladin tools are getting nerfed overall while others especially warriors are getting big buffs.

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Warrior has to settle for only being able to do that every 60 seconds, while Paladin can pretty much spam Clemency on themselves all day long, the flexibility of which is very useful, especially when everyone decides to wipe in O12 so you have to solo the end of it.

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Yes spamming clemency is great but it will kill your dps. maybe you can save a spirits within so you don't lose too much, but messing up your rotation and missing your req windows is going to be very hurtful. Warriors can heal themselves whenever for no loss in dps. That's comparing an apple and an orange.

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Paladin might not have an oGCD heal, but to make that the case they would have to homogenize the tanks, something people are already complaining has occured too much. I suspect that whether they homogenize or not, someone will criticise them.

They would also have to trample on the idea of paladin being partly a spell caster, which for me is important and part of what I enjoy most about paladin.

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In no way am I advocating for the homogenizing of the tank classes. I just feel Paladin's tanking tools have gotten overall nerfed while Warrior has gotten super buffed. I love the overall feel of Paladin and I can't wait to try out the new abilities I just don't like that some of our abilities have gone away or gotten nerfed while other tank classes especially warrior have been buffed.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

And tbh, I genuinely feel you're overreacting to the nerf on cover, which was too broken in it's current iteration.

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Care to elaborate on why it’s an overreaction? I’ve said twice it did need a nerf, but it got nerfed far too much. It has very little practical use with the changes shown, at this point it is just there for authenticities sake and I don’t think we’d miss it if it was just removed entirely with what they’ve done to it.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Care to elaborate on why it’s an overreaction? I’ve said twice it did need a nerf, but it got nerfed far too much. It has very little practical use with the changes shown, at this point it is just there for authenticities sake and I don’t think we’d miss it if it was just removed entirely with what they’ve done to it.

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Simply enough we won't need cover every 2 minutes on CD, we can easily plan our gauge around the use of it, like all CDs should be planned, not an "oh, shit" button, we also have the 20% DR. So older content we will still have SB cover, while in ShB we don't know how fights will play out, so really is an overreaction.

My kneejerk reaction is "oh crud, nothing has changed"
It's still the same exact rotation, except you substitute 1 of your RA strings with spamming a different button 3 times. It seems every bit as static and uninteractive as it was in SB

I hope I'm wrong, and spamming those Atonements is actually SOMEHOW really fun, but it does look like PLD is dead to me again >.<

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

we won't need cover every 2 minutes on CD, we can easily plan our gauge around the use of it

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Except we won’t want to use it ever in a planned way. There is no reason to use it because it offers no benefits outside of emergencies, which you can’t plan for.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

like all CDs should be planned, not an "oh, shit" button

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It serves no purpose as a planned CD outside of unconventional strategies because any damage taken by someone other than a tank won’t require cover or PLD will be mandatory. So “Oh sh**” button or niche conditions is all it has left.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

we also have the 20% DR. So older content we will still have SB cover, while in ShB we don't know how fights will play out

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As I said before this is false. The 20% DR is baseline on all tanks now. Cover is offering no mitigation itself, only your inherent tankiness, which the other tanks share, meaning you’re adding no benefits with cover when covering another tank, which was the main reason it was so good in SB.

The reason cover was strong in SB is because you could cover the MT in a planned way and it brought mitigation ITSELF. The fact that it added MORE mitigation is what made it better than a tank swap. Without that additional mitigation over the tank baseline you are basically spending 50 gauge on a 12s provoke. So there is no reason to plan around the use of cover, leaving it as a niche or an emergency button only.

But an emergency button can’t have a cost, because it means we now have to sit on 50 gauge at all times in case someone needs a cover, no one is going to do that. Leaving it with only the niche situation of unconventional strategies.

It doesn’t matter how fights play out in shadowbringers when the effects of cover are analytically useless. So unless it changes before release it is not an overreaction to say it will never be used outside of niche circumstances.

Cover can definitely be used in a planned way. It was used in t13 on a melee for the earthshakers, stopped the puddles from forming on the ground and let the melee continue dpsing.

Can't say for the omega raids, as I took a break from tanking with 4.0

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

You do have 20% mitigation when covering as an OT. This is because the mitigation trait that replaces tank stance's 20% mitigation is still there when off tanking.

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When everyone's super, no one's super.

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I'm sure you see the flaw in that logic.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Cover can definitely be used in a planned way. It was used in t13 on a melee for the earthshakers, stopped the puddles from forming on the ground and let the melee continue dpsing.

Can't say for the omega raids, as I took a break from tanking with 4.0

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That would fall under niche strats. It’s not like in SB where cover could be used on the MT in place of a swap, basically allowing PLD to use cover in any and every fight where there would be a tank swap. Now, you can only use it in certain fights in certain situations. Like covering puddles in T13, or covering a ranged in O11s, that’s two fights over the course of 3 expansions where cover is used on someone other than the MT, definition of niche.

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

I'm sure you see the flaw in that logic.

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There is no flaw in the logic.

Right now, OTs in Sword Oath that Cover get 20% mitigation from Cover itself.

In future, OTs that Cover will get that 20% mitigation because they have it already in their traits.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

That would fall under niche strats. It’s not like in SB where cover could be used on the MT in place of a swap, basically allowing PLD to use cover in any and every fight where there would be a tank swap. Now, you can only use it in certain fights in certain situations. Like covering puddles in T13, or covering a ranged in O11s, that’s two fights over the course of 3 expansions where cover is used on someone other than the MT, definition of niche.

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Um, the first half of seiryu EX fight and some latter where you need to tank swap because of cursekeeper debuff. PLD can use cover here to take away cursekeeper from MT and then break off the cover line while still able to DPS which help reduce tank swap.
Another is O11S JP strat for omega when the 2nd mustard bomb hits MT because of cover mitigation the PLD here is able to survive. I don't know what NA/EU strats are but in JP PLD here pretty much use cover extensively.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

There is no flaw in the logic.

Right now, OTs in Sword Oath that Cover get 20% mitigation from Cover itself.

In future, OTs that Cover will get that 20% mitigation because they have it already in their traits.

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Yeah, something to keep in mind when talking about 5.x mitigation is full time benefit from old tank stance defense.

Cover seems pretty useless now. Yes you could use it to avoid doing some tank swaps before, but seeing as there is no pressing need to avoid having PLD take the MT position anymore, why would you?

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Originally Posted by Dalmacus

Um, the first half of seiryu EX fight and some latter where you need to tank swap because of cursekeeper debuff. PLD can use cover here to take away cursekeeper from MT and then break off the cover line while still able to DPS which help reduce tank swap.
Another is O11S JP strat for omega when the 2nd mustard bomb hits MT because of cover mitigation the PLD here is able to survive. I don't know what NA/EU strats are but in JP PLD here pretty much use cover extensively.

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Read again, carefully this time.

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It’s not like in SB where cover could be used on the MT in place of a swap, basically allowing PLD to use cover in any and every fight where there would be a tank swap.

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I've read. I only listed two because it's recent content and i can't remember the past content and also i stated I don't know what NA/EU strats are but in JP PLD here pretty much use cover extensively.
It may be niche to you maybe because you hardly use it, don't want to use it or can't be bothered with it but that does not apply to others.

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Originally Posted by Dalmacus

I've read. I only listed two because it's recent content and i can't remember the past content and also i stated I don't know what NA/EU strats are but in JP PLD here pretty much use cover extensively.
It may be niche to you maybe because you hardly use it, don't want to use it or can't be bothered with it but that does not apply to others.

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What you quoted literally says in Stormblood PLD uses cover all the time....

NOW, in shadowbringers, it won’t be used anymore because it has been nerfed.

Just in case people didn't know:

The buff from Passage of Arms is applied to your entire party instantly and lasts for 5-6 seconds.
Therefore you can pop passage and immediately start attacking the boss, and the buff will still remain on your party as the raid-wide damage goes out.

You don't have to stand still with passage up and wait for the raid-wide buster to hit you.

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

Just in case people didn't know:

The buff from Passage of Arms is applied to your entire party instantly and lasts for 5-6 seconds.
Therefore you can pop passage and immediately start attacking the boss, and the buff will still remain on your party as the raid-wide damage goes out.

You don't have to stand still with passage up and wait for the raid-wide buster to hit you.

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:O

All this time, I thought the effect ended as soon as I moved.

I mean you keep saying cover is only useful now in niche situations, but the thing is cover is a niche skill to begin with. You're gonna use cover in a niche way anyways because it's not the conventional method to how the mechanic was designed in the first place. Take o12s and the tank share mechanic, you cover the MT after he receives the magic vuln and cover them and take the buster. you cover the BRD/MCH in o11s for the hp tether so you can keep uptime, you used to use cover to prevent / avoid a tank swap, these are all niche things in the first place. So it got nerfed so what, considering there is still so much strong mitigation in PLDs toolkit, seriously, the nerfs PLD got are so minor compared to what we gain. Some of the future strat will still use cover as a planned CD, especially when cheesing stuff using a ranged dps to maximise uptime, 50 gauge to gain more dps sounds like a win to me, niche or not but it is a niche skill to use in the first place.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

I mean you keep saying cover is only useful now in niche situations, but the thing is cover is a niche skill to begin with. You're gonna use cover in a niche way anyways because it's not the conventional method to how the mechanic was designed in the first place. Take o12s and the tank share mechanic, you cover the MT after he receives the magic vuln and cover them and take the buster. you cover the BRD/MCH in o11s for the hp tether so you can keep uptime, you used to use cover to prevent / avoid a tank swap, these are all niche things in the first place. So it got nerfed so what, considering there is still so much strong mitigation in PLDs toolkit, seriously, the nerfs PLD got are so minor compared to what we gain. Some of the future strat will still use cover as a planned CD, especially when cheesing stuff using a ranged dps to maximise uptime, 50 gauge to gain more dps sounds like a win to me, niche or not but it is a niche skill to use in the first place.

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I'm sorry, let me see if I understand you right. Are you trying to say cover will be just as useful as it is now when it's had 20% mitigation taken off and a gauge cost added on? Cause I don't see the math following that one.

Okay so if you look at it from one aspect if you cover a tank sure it's ARR/ HW cover, but if you cover a DPS or healer it has 20% DR, because that's 20% DPS and healers don't have.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

What you quoted literally says in Stormblood PLD uses cover all the time.... NOW, in shadowbringers, it won’t be used anymore because it has been nerfed.

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Perhaps it'll be used less, but saying it won't be used at all is a stretch.

I see Paladins use it really effectively right down to the lowest dungeons and trials.

It's superb for preventing someone from dying for an extended period while a healer resolves the situation. Perhaps a healer is casting a 7 second raise and can't heal the rest of the party. They won't have to stop their important cast if a Paladin throws their utility at the situation by covering someone and healing another with Divine Veil up. I have plenty such experiences because roulettes have first timers in by design.

It's a tricky situation because Cover is in the spirit of your oath to protect others, yet is not apart of the Oath Gauge. It makes logical sense for it to be apart of the Oath Gauge from a lore perspective, but might be annoying if you can't fully rely on it being available and for the other reasons you've mentioned.

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Originally Posted by ValentineSnow

I'm sorry, let me see if I understand you right. Are you trying to say cover will be just as useful as it is now when it's had 20% mitigation taken off and a gauge cost added on? Cause I don't see the math following that one.

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It's not had the 20% mitigation taken off. The 20% damage reduction has just been moved to a trait.

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Originally Posted by ValentineSnow

I'm sorry, let me see if I understand you right. Are you trying to say cover will be just as useful as it is now when it's had 20% mitigation taken off and a gauge cost added on? Cause I don't see the math following that one.

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As useful? No, and that's a good thing, because it was so strong. It will still be very useful though, there will still be plenty of times when you want to Cover a healer/dps targeted by mechanics, take a debuff meant for the other tank, or just normally mitigate a tankbuster without swapping.

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Originally Posted by Launched

As useful? No, and that's a good thing, because it was so strong. It will still be very useful though, there will still be plenty of times when you want to Cover a healer/dps targeted by mechanics, take a debuff meant for the other tank, or just normally mitigate a tankbuster without swapping.

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With the 50 gauge cost it's not going to be used on the MT anymore. It will be much better to just tank swap and save the gauge for Sheltron. Only time cover will be used in the future will be on prey type mechanics targeting dps (like in o7s) or in emergencies like you need to keep a recently raised person alive through a mechanic (at the same time it might be better to just use clemency). The more I think about it I don't see what the big issue with it being so strong. War's get an invuln every 3 minutes. That seems way better than Stormblood Cover.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It's not had the 20% mitigation taken off. The 20% damage reduction has just been moved to a trait.

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erm, no? If a PLD covers a WAR in a fight right now they're adding 20% mitigation from cover. Both of them being in sword oath and deliverance. After the expansion they both have 20% mitigation tacked on, cause they're both basically in shield oath and defiance as standard (that is what the trait is). So if the PLD covers the WAR in that same fight, he's no longer adding any mitigation that isn't already there, might as well have just tank swapped right? Saved 50 gauge to use on sheltron instead? Provoke doesn't cost anything and sheltron does add mitigation where cover now doesn't for the same price.

A majority of the times PLDs used cover since stormblood has been to cover the MT instead of a swap. There have been other situations where it's been useful too, even before stormblood, but they were much fewer and far between, more in line with using tempered will to cheese mechanics. The mitigation on cover is what made it so mainstream, if you remove that then that primary use of cover goes with it and you're left with just cheese mechanics.

I dunno, it baffles me that people are defending this position, it's starting to remind me of people claiming it's fine that SMN still has a physick that heals 200hp.

It's not like anyone here is claiming that PLD is broken because of the cover nerf, just that cover isn't going to be worth using much anymore, which it isn't.

Not a fan of the changes to cover but everything else looks great. No idea why anyone would complain about these changes. All in all, PLD has become much stronger.

Dont forget that either nerfs to PLD/DRK or buffs to WAR are coming 100%. Right now PLD is first at dps while WAR is third (DRK deals a bit more than WAR but barely) when it was estated by Yoshi that WAR will be the highest dps tank. So probably expect PLD 4.0 all over again where it was overtuned then promptly nerfed :(