Baldesion Arsenal and new ToS Combo

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

NA cleared before DF had problems. Did EU have problem before the 14th? And JP didn't have that problem and still haven't cleared it first. So the point still stands. Information alone won't help clear BA (And don't get me wrong, I'm not sayin NA players are the best) they were the most organized of the three. And information + organization = easy BA clear.

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Eu had issues with df starting the day after Hydatos was released.This went on for 3 days.Those that were lucky to get in were waiting for reserved instance to get in for 2 hours+.A lot never even got in.
So yeah not many people got a chance to go near BA or to even lvl to 60.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

Eu had issues with df starting the day after Hydatos was released.This went on for 3 days.Those that were lucky to get in were waiting for reserved instance to get in for 2 hours+.A lot never even got in.
So yeah not many people got a chance to go near BA or to even lvl to 60.

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Well in that case I can't talk about EU in my arguments. But it still stands for JP and NA, since NA managed to clear before the DF issue.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

I was part of the group going for EU 1st during those days and i can tell you it is thanks to both NA and JP that we got the information for Raiden and AV but when we were trying to go for Ozma we lost 2 hours for df messing up and lost half the grps due to raiding and timezones as people needed sleep, then the very next day we lost another 5+ hours of ozma as earlier before df messed up we got ozma to 67% so we were well learning it so in all EU lost 3 to 4 Ozma pulls before NA got world 1st certainly EU could've gotten it but DF messed everything up so we'll never know how it would have gone, if they do this content again maybe both JP and NA can have the same problems while learning and see if they still get 1st eh?

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But you were in an organized party, right?. My point isn't that those who cleared first are better. But it was those who cleared first were organized and not just a group of randoms that change every time they try to run the content. Was your party made of random pugs or was it the same group trying over and over?

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

But you were in an organized party, right?. My point isn't those who cleared first are better. But it was those who cleared first were organized and not just a group of randoms that change every time they try to run the content. Was your party made of random pugs or was it the same group trying over and over?

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Absolutely organised couldn't do it week 1 without it, you needed the consistancy for the runs but now that mechanics are more readily available to people we can have randoms occasionally be able to have a chance to do it new people runs are more common now within the discord

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Absolutely organised couldn't do it week 1 without it, you needed the consistancy for the runs but now that mechanics are more readily available to people we can have randoms occasionally be able to have a chance to do it new people runs are more common now within the discord

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Thank you! It's sad that you couldn't get it first but there's always a next time for other content. But you showed the point I wanted to make, since some people here have the mindset that it shouldn't be done with an organized group and everyone should join randomly, since it's made to be a pug content (which I think they mistook for casual). And not realizing that even pug content like savage requires a static to clear the tier at first week and even then still require PF for pugs not just randomly queuing for it.
If randoms started sniping portals from your group, that would have surely destroyed a bunch of runs and delayed it even further.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

It was cleared first week with pug group.The pugs werent the first to clear it that week but it was pug cleared regardless if you refuse to accept that.

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Why are you saying I refuse to accept that? Have you read my previous reply regarding your comment on that matter?

And if it's that easy to randomly pug it, have you cleared it yet?

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Thank you! It's sad that you couldn't get it first but there's always a next time for other content. But you showed the point I wanted to make, since some people here have the mindset that it shouldn't be done with an organized group and everyone should join randomly, since it's made to be a pug content (which I think they mistook for casual). And not realizing that even pug content like savage requires a static to clear the tier at first week and even then still require PF for pugs not just randomly queuing for it.
If randoms started sniping portals from your group, that would have surely destroyed a bunch of runs and delayed it even further.

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It was cleared first week with pug group.The pugs werent the first to clear it that week but it was pug cleared regardless if you refuse to accept that.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Neither do you. Purposely taking a portal with the intent to ruin a run after a premade says that they plan to run the content and asks players not to take portals from their group (be it a fragment run, or prog on AV/Ozma) is griefing, and you can be reported and punished for it. If you're looking to clear BA in its entirety, it's far more feasible to be in a group where everyone can communicate via voice chats, as you can't just type during mechanics that will one-shot you if you fail it. It's all about practicality - you don't even have to speak. I keep my mic muted every time I join one.

Seriously. These discords are designed to help people do this content. I'm in the NA one and they've done nothing but help me. A frag run even offered to turn into an AV prog run for us newbies that haven't been to AV one evening (sadly, the shark FATE was not defeated but it was still kind of them to offer that).



Last I heard, JP is not doing full random PUGs made in an instance. I've heard they enter the same way NA and EU do: via already formed premades.

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They make the groups there before go in, not in Discord.

And I didn't know SE remove the chat and use of macros from FF with BA. /s

I find it funny how, while not my intent, this thread is proving my point about the new ToS. That Square created this environment, and now even the most minor of infractions can be seen as reportable.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

I find it funny how, while not my intent, this thread is proving my point about the new ToS. That Square created this environment, and now even the most minor of infractions can be seen as reportable.

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Players created this enviroment not SE.
Im honestly sick and tired of seeing people make threads about this and that trying to blame SE for players being hostile to each other.Thats a personal choice not something SE has forced on players.
I dont get how society has gotten to this stage where people look to throw the blame anywhere but themselves for their own behaviour.

This is the housing shortage all over again. Square-Enix develops a terrible system and players blame other players over it. When a player owns an empty house and you can't buy a house, that is not the house owner's fault. That is SE's fault for making a bad system where housing is limited.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Here's a sad story that happened to my group. We were the support group and our BLM portal got sniped by a WAR. And that WAR was alone with Cure logograms and barely helped in killing AV and Ozma and got the mount. While our BLM that was waiting for hours got nothing.

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That sucks, and I absolutely feel sympathy for your BLM friend, as well as everyone in the premade who wanted to do the content together. But the Warrior is not at fault. No matter how tempting it is to to blame the obvious target, there is absolutely nothing in-game that said the WAR didn't have every right to click that portal and join the instance. Every ounce of blame should be hurled towards SE for creating a system where this can happen.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Neither do you. Purposely taking a portal with the intent to ruin a run after a premade says that they plan to run the content and asks players not to take portals from their group (be it a fragment run, or prog on AV/Ozma) is griefing, and you can be reported and punished for it.

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Originally Posted by Fiorinol

I'm just going to take their portal and do the content in their stead.

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That wouldn't be griefing.

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Originally Posted by YatoShishi

I hope that SE is doing something about, since its incredible frustrating for both sides. Especially on EU Data Center we have one troll who stalks BA groups, follows them and snipes portals on purpose just to annoy each and everyone. Players who see him in the instance start to panic when they see him.

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That's griefing. It can and should be reported.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Both sides are right and yet both are wrong too.

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But not equally. The presence of a premade means there are 48-56 fewer PUGs that could group up. Premades aren't just asking for portals so they can get in, but so they can bypass having to acquire a stabilizer. PUGs wouldn't have a problem pairing with a portion of a premade. A full premade can't pair with PUGs or another premade.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

On the one hand the premade players are entering Hydatos and basically shouting that this is "their" instance, and join up with other premades to defeat the NM that spams the portals.

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There's no winning with this. Best case they announce early on they have a premade where every member has a stabilizer. It's the most courteous thing to do but it still tells everyone else they have no chance of getting into BA in that instance.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

But thanks to the new ToS both could be punished for doing nothing at all. Both could claim the portal was "sniped" but the other might not even have been aware. And that presents a serious issue.

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The new ToS can largely be ignored. Taking a portal with the intention to grief would have been reportable under the "old" rules. Neither can claim a portal was sniped because there is no such thing.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

What are other peoples thoughts on this?

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Yet another instance of SE lacking foresight. It's something to be admired.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Pray tell me when FFXI did implement an instance system that people would enter like this on an individual basis ?

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That would be the whole of Eureka so far. It's no surprise the last part works the same. Stop trying to cram a square peg into a round hole.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

Players created this enviroment not SE.
Im honestly sick and tired of seeing people make threads about this and that trying to blame SE for players being hostile to each other.Thats a personal choice not something SE has forced on players.
I dont get how society has gotten to this stage where people look to throw the blame anywhere but themselves for their own behaviour.

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You aren't incorrect, this is a player made issue. However, because SE recently "updated" their ToS they exacerbated the issue. They basically made it so that someone could percieve something as "harmful" and report others. And if the GM overseeing that incident votes in favor of the reporter, the reportee might not even be aware they did anything, since it wasn't against their normal gameplay.

Basically, prior to the update, the person being reported was the "troll". Now the person doing the reporting could be the "troll", by taking something "out of context", when that isn't the case.

I think what would help is an actual appeal system or just improved customer support from SE. The threat that banned is banned you will never get to talk to anyone or show your side is making this even more nasty.

Even on the front page today, someone got banned with the email worded as an infraction happened on a day they weren't online. I think they ought to be able to say, well hang on, that's not right.

I think if SE feel they need to step up their moderating they need to step up their customer support as well.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Even on the front page today, someone got banned with the email worded as an infraction happened on a day they weren't online. I think they ought to be able to say, well hang on, that's not right.

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They weren't banned, they were given a warning.

As for the date not matching up to their playing habits, this could be SE stating things in server time. The player could be in a timezone that is several hours ahead or behind.

Also with such little information about this, we can't really use this as an example of either the player's behaviour or SE's GM service.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Also with such little information about this, we can't really use this as an example of either the player's behaviour or SE's GM service.

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And that's the problem, isn't it? Assuming the player is being truthful, we can get a mark on our account and not even be told the reason why.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

And that's the problem, isn't it? Assuming the player is being truthful, we can get a mark on our account and not even be told the reason why.

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Jumping the gun a bit. That player would have an email going into more detail about the violation. The warning in the game is likely there to only draw attention to the fact that the account has a warning. But not everyone thinks to check their inbox, which is probably why that player made a thread.

It also could be an automated system that flagged that player's account. Someone in my fc had their account flagged for suspicious activity despite the fact that they did nothing wrong. The flag was lifted in a few days. Sometimes these automated systems give a false positive.

Again we know little to nothing about that player who posted that thread so it's hardly constructive to dwell on it.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

This is the housing shortage all over again. Square-Enix develops a terrible system and players blame other players over it. When a player owns an empty house and you can't buy a house, that is not the house owner's fault. That is SE's fault for making a bad system where housing is limited.

That sucks, and I absolutely feel sympathy for your BLM friend, as well as everyone in the premade who wanted to do the content together. But the Warrior is not at fault. No matter how tempting it is to to blame the obvious target, there is absolutely nothing in-game that said the WAR didn't have every right to click that portal and join the instance. Every ounce of blame should be hurled towards SE for creating a system where this can happen.

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It's true, everyone has a right to the portals. But the premades don't join an instance and claim it as their on like they own the land. If there's a group already that that wants to do BA, then we just simply leave. If they didn't and still tried to forcefully claim the instance, then they're disrupting the gameplay of the others that are there and deserve what comes to them. People have the right to join a PF that they met its requirements by the game system. But should they join knowing they will only cause problems to the group?

On the other hand, you see an instance where people don't bother with BA. When Ovni dies, all portals are open and no one touches them with a 10 foot pole except maybe 4-5 that were curious. The moment a premade group joins and the group finds out that no one is doing BA in the instance and portals are up, suddenly people wanna snipe the portals hoping to be carried. Why didn't those that intended to snipe the portals say anything before hand then? They have a right to the portal, so why keep quiet till Ovni dies and then snatch the portal if it's their right? Here the snipers are also disrupting the gameplay of others. And both cases deserve to be reported.

There are other cases where you have a right to do something, but you shouldn't do it since you'll only be causing problems to others. Like joining a savage clear party while you still don't know half the mechanics (and I've encountered some who did that in O12s thinking they can easily do HW2 just be knowing HW1 and the constantly died at archive all and wiped us at times). You have the right to join a party that you satisfy its requirements. But should you do so knowing you'll cause troubles to the people in it?

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

The moment a premade group joins and the group finds out that no one is doing BA in the instance and portals are up, suddenly people wanna snipe the portals hoping to be carried. Why didn't those that intended to snipe the portals say anything before hand then? They have a right to the portal, so why keep quiet till Ovni dies and then snatch the portal if it's their right? Here the snipers are also disrupting the gameplay of others. And both cases deserve to be reported.

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I mean, that's the funniest part isn't it. People who are so angry at the premades yet are unwilling to go in with non organised groups. We watched a group of people try to rally everyone into entering the portals because "screw the discord". They went in and all left immediately because they didn't have any healers.

???

This content hasn't been designed to be clear-able without some level of organisation, unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

This content hasn't been designed to be clear-able without some level of organisation, unfortunately.

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It was't. And with the warnings and all the talk about it being a difficult content, one would logically assume that there has to be some sort of coordination. But people still can get lucky and get a good party composition in some cases if they were to join in masses. But in all the ones I tried to join that way, I never got more than two full parties. A lot are afraid of joining out of fear of deleveling. But let them hear there's a premade....the fear is gone and it's time to snatch a portal.

The first time, you'd likely be offered a link to the discord to simply join. If you keep doing that to spite people, it's called griefing, and it's reportable.

EDIT: This was a response to another post and the forum didn't reflect that for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by Leanna

They make the groups there before go in, not in Discord.

And I didn't know SE remove the chat and use of macros from FF with BA. /s

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Hey. That's still a premade. JP doesn't use Discord from what I understand, but I believe they have other voice apps at their disposal. Still proves my point though - they don't make random groups within the instance. They use the premade method like both of the other data centers. Your insinuation was that they do full random groups with the instance:

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Originally Posted by Leanna

Meanwhile Japanese players clear BA being pug friendly and letting everyone participate.

The end of times, apocalypse, madness, how they dare?! /s

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NA doesn't exclude anyone. They freely pass out the link to the discord in attempts to help players get into organized group. As I said before; they are trying to help players. But when players continuously act disrespectful and as if they own the instance more than a premade does, pray tell why anyone should consider helping someone like that...



And I never said they removed chat/macros. I said it's not feasible to type during heavy mechanics, nor is it feasible to be staring at chat waiting for callouts there - macro' for typed. Calm your tone and stop twisting words.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

That wouldn't be griefing.

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If you were asked to not take a portal and did so anyways, it could be considered griefing. You are obstructing someone else's play, and being disrespectful imo. Especially if you start making demands that the group inside BA is now required to carry you.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Jumping the gun a bit. That player would have an email going into more detail about the violation. The warning in the game is likely there to only draw attention to the fact that the account has a warning. But not everyone thinks to check their inbox, which is probably why that player made a thread.

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Do the warnings not give any indication that an email with more information has been sent? I would imagine that the OP of that thread would have checked their email if they had been told to.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

Do the warnings not give any indication that an email with more information has been sent? I would imagine that the OP of that thread would have checked their email if they had been told to.

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I haven't ever had such warnings in game so I can't answer you with complete certainty. I'm making educated guesses. You're free to post in that thread and ask OP whatever burning questions you have.

Also are you going to seriously assume OP had the presence of mind to check their inbox? They could have been panicking from the warning and forgot to do that. They could have checked the wrong email. They may have forgotten to check their spam folder. These are common honest mistakes. On top of that they didn't even contact SE correctly to get clarification. They won't discuss any sort of private information on the forum, and that includes disciplinary action. It's likely that player is simply new to anything like this.

Never mind how these forums are frequently an example of how people can miss obvious things.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

NA doesn't exclude anyone. They freely pass out the link to the discord in attempts to help players get into organized group. As I said before; they are trying to help players. But when players continuously act disrespectful and as if they own the instance more than a premade does, pray tell why anyone should consider helping someone like that...

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Except many of the groups that come in are full and just monopolize the instance, if you dare take one of the portals, or god forbid, use a stabilizer, you will get nasty things coming your way. There are way too many people trying to funnel in their giant premades.

I got a bunch of nasty stuff thrown my way on top of threats in tells because I took a portal in an instance that was supposed to be "reserved". Nobody said anything in shout chat, the other person who came to the portal after I got there didn't say anything or even ask to take the portal. I got people bragging to me that I'm now "permabanned" from their discords for disrespecting their authority. I really don't care.

I left the discords because I find them unproductive. You spend hours instance hopping, sometimes for no results at all or to have your instance taken by another group who got in at the same time, and I don't have the time for that. That they spend hours funneling their premade in is on them, not on the players in the instance.

You're not benevolent because you made a big discord server. If you want to complain to someone, complain to Square Enix.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

If you were asked to not take a portal and did so anyways, it could be considered griefing. You are obstructing someone else's play, and being disrespectful imo. Especially if you start making demands that the group inside BA is now required to carry you.

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You don't own the portals because you queued in with your premade and said "Reserved". If you want to guarantee a portal, make the Stabilizer item. What griefing would be is following specific players around to take their portals and/or then instantly leave the instance and not do the content at all.

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Originally Posted by Fiorinol

I left the discords because I find them unproductive. You spend hours instance hopping, sometimes for no results at all or to have your instance taken by another group who got in at the same time, and I don't have the time for that.

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Good things come to those who wait.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Also are you going to seriously assume OP had the presence of mind to check their inbox?

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I'm not even assuming an email was sent out in the first place. I've also never received a warning like that, so I can only go off what that player reported and again say that, if they are being truthful, it is an issue that we can receive a mark on our accounts without even being told why.

Even going off your assumption that an email was sent out that contained further information, I find it to be an issue that they wouldn't bother giving the reason for the warning in the in-game message.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

I find it funny how, while not my intent, this thread is proving my point about the new ToS. That Square created this environment, and now even the most minor of infractions can be seen as reportable.

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There's a difference between "can be seen as reportable" and something the GMs will actually accept as a valid complaint, though.

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

What's the real problem into starting a pre-made at the BA discord ...?

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Maybe because it is written nowhere that I have to join/use Discord to play Final Fantasy XIV.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Maybe because it is written nowhere that I have to join/use Discord to play Final Fantasy XIV.

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its not written anywhere for learning/clearing Savage either, but you know damn well everyone is in voice chat.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

its not written anywhere for learning/clearing Savage either, but you know damn well everyone is in voice chat.

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You made it sound like people can't partake in savage without discord, wich is false and like people get harrassed for not using discord while joining any group of savage clear/learn. wich is once again a very rare occurence.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

If you were asked to not take a portal and did so anyways, it could be considered griefing. You are obstructing someone else's play, and being disrespectful imo. Especially if you start making demands that the group inside BA is now required to carry you.

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But isn't this an endless cycle? Why is the person asking held higher than the person who does so anyways? If someone asks, does that mean they are more entitled to the portal than another? In either case, isn't one person technically obstructing another's play? If you ask, they can answer either yes or no, and aren't required to give you the answer you desire.

Unless someone goes in with the specific intention of griefing, I don't think they should be reported. Otherwise, where does it end?

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Originally Posted by Evumeimei

But isn't this an endless cycle? Why is the person asking held higher than the person who does so anyways? If someone asks, does that mean they are more entitled to the portal than another? In either case, isn't one person technically obstructing another's play? If you ask, they can answer either yes or no, and aren't required to give you the answer you desire.

Unless someone goes in with the specific intention of griefing, I don't think they should be reported. Otherwise, where does it end?

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I got to the portal before the other player did and sat on it. The other player didn't ask anything. When the portal turned red I grabbed it first.

Who's portal is it?

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Originally Posted by Evumeimei

But isn't this an endless cycle? Why is the person asking held higher than the person who does so anyways? If someone asks, does that mean they are more entitled to the portal than another? In either case, isn't one person technically obstructing another's play? If you ask, they can answer either yes or no, and aren't required to give you the answer you desire.

Unless someone goes in with the specific intention of griefing, I don't think they should be reported. Otherwise, where does it end?

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Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with you on this one.

I don't see why the premade party just leave a few spots open for pugs. The one that are clearing is the only ones that keep clearing with exception of I would say quite a few other that have discord. As for pugs taking a portal ppl say the entrance to BA is bad and yes it is but lets look at the actual way of getting in. Locked PF premade join discord for password. If I was saying I was going to help me and other get through the content I simply would have it a open PF if I went that route. Also how many instance are open at once ? 2-3 what is the Discord BA population ? The way SE has it set up would work as it is if ppl would come together. I don't use discord and never will. I simply don't need to. I practice and die. Don't care if I lose xp 1 ufo fate is 1/3 of it back. my 2nd try I got past AV and this with no call outs and blind run. but I was lvl 60 by the 3rd day, weeks go by of asking lock PF premades if they have room I'd like to join. Of course they have there own que to content to go by so I have to hope someone misses the que and that's if they even get back to me for me to know. I been nice enough to keep asking and not just simply go in. So needles to say since I have desided to take this approach I have a total of 4ish hours in BA because I don't use discord and I don't take the portal That I have every right to. Simply if they deside to keep the premade pt's just leave a few spots open ^^ adjust as needed

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Originally Posted by ErdrickT

I don't see why the premade party just leave a few spots open for pugs.

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There have been plenty of instances on Aether where the Discord groups are short a few members and recruit within the instance (typically for frag runs, maybe for AV prog; I've never seen one recruit within the instance for Ozma clears because there's no way to know the progress of those who join even for frag runs). But if they fill up while in Discord, there's no spots left to give.

The discord isn't a option for some of us... they need to add a question for this thing. Elitist control freaks messed this instance up.

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Originally Posted by Wyvernheart

The discord isn't a option for some of us... they need to add a question for this thing. Elitist control freaks messed this instance up.

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Sniping portals didn't help?

An individual from my server has been doing as much as they can to troll the BA premades without putting themselves into a situation where they could be reported for it.

That is, they'll hop in any available portals ASAP, then play as badly as they can without making it too obvious (They have their clear already and I know from prior experience with them that they're capable of doing much better then some of my friends have described them as doing) and always end up dying eventually.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

NA cleared before DF had problems. Did EU have problem before the 14th? And JP didn't have that problem and still haven't cleared it first. So the point still stands. Information alone won't help clear BA (And don't get me wrong, I'm not sayin NA players are the best) they were the most organized of the three. And information + organization = easy BA clear.

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It is also worth noting as someone who knows some of the people within the world first group, one of the major reasons why they organized so quickly to take down BA as soon as possible is that they saw this crap show coming from a mile away. They got their clear before the rest of the community caught up to them to cause problems in organizing. I personally witnessed the organization efforts whenever the group was in an instance I was in prior to their clear, everyone in the instance understood what they were attempting to do and got out of their way. At one point, I saw them gather around a fairy, and everyone waited until the whole group was present so they all could grab the fairy buff at once, instead of chasing the fairy randomly across the map because of staggered buffing. (That was also the point where we learned that the fairy can apparently only buff around 30 people at once in a single cast.)

I imagine most people that considered trying to muscle in on their efforts either weren't level 60 yet and thus couldn't even participate if they wanted to, or knew there was a high possibility of screwing up (in a raid with no guides existing at that point in time) and having it recorded on a stream that was being watched worldwide.

Also, IIRC EU wasn't even in the race because they had DF/connection problems all throughout that first week of release.

Come to think of it, I think it would help tremendously if all NMs in Hydatos gave a low amount of Eurekan Fragments upon reaching elemental level 60 as well. That way, 'frag runs' wouldn't really be a thing anymore, which would mean that all BA runs thereafter are either going to be learning/prog or clear runs, and people would more actively spawn NMs on the east side of the map. I imagine this would also free up more instances for public runs. Of course, whether people will actually organize for public runs instead of hoping to sneak into discord runs on purpose is another thing entirely.

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Originally Posted by Wyvernheart

The discord isn't a option for some of us... they need to add a question for this thing. Elitist control freaks messed this instance up.

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How is Discord not an option for people, if I may ask? Even players on PS4 can use it with the PS4 browser (as was demonstrated in the other BA thread by someone), or they can use a phone, tablet, laptop, or desktop for it. If the argument is introversion/social anxiety, I have a surplus of both and still manage to use Discord. I just stay muted; not a big deal.