We need a community rep that interacts with the community

I think it's just a bunch of extra work that amounts to nothing. Most of the popular opinions from forums had been said for years now and they are not that great and can't be fixed in a short time.

I haven’t read through the whole thread, but I don’t think is a bad idea. Obviously it’s impossible for a community rep to answer every single query posted on the forums, but I don’t think anyone is expecting that lol.

That said, I do think it’d be worth community reps at least posting to say that they acknowledge issues with topics that keep cropping up. Even if it’s just something like ‘we acknowledge players are having issues with x and will forward the concerns to [whoever]. I think something like that would go a long way to assuage people’s concerns.

I do feel a certain lack of connection with the SE devs that work on XIV. I just don't think they're the kind of developer that would want to have more open communication with the playerbase, to be honest.

This topic made me think of Bungie. I've been playing Destiny since launch, and I'm neck-deep in its community. I follow a bunch of devs on Twitter and I get this feeling like they're more... personable? I'm not sure that's the right word for it, but it's the idea that X or Y developer isn't just a developer, but also just a regular guy or girl who sometimes tweets about playing games with their children or having trouble with their car, or the weather, or some such mundane stuff a bunch of people can relate to. You get the sense that they've got lives going on. This makes them feel more reachable such that if you were to tweet at them, it wouldn't be entirely surprising for them to reply to you. Couple this with the fact that that game has a weekly news article in which the devs chime in every now and then with their thoughts on community reaction to W or Z event/update.

I'll be honest, I kinda wish SE was like that, but I understand it's not in them be so. Language barrier aside, it strikes me as the kind of thing that's deeply ingrained in the company's philosophy. People engage with them at fanfest and events such as those, but there's still that feeling of them putting a wall between the playerbase and themselves. Also, to be clear, I'm not saying SE should be like Bungie in this regard, I'm just saying I kinda wish they were, but I understand why they aren't and how it might not be in their best interest.

Just this tired lala's two gil.

The bungie devs are native English speakers, of course they interact more with the English speaking players.

Players want to know that their concerns are coming in and not just getting brushed under the rug. Especially in light of some of the BLU threads being moved or removed, despite it being just released.

I think there's a lot of anxiety around communication because of the language barrier, honestly. We don't know what gets passed on since it's super rare for a rep to pop in and say they are looking at a particular thread to gather feedback from. And there have been some cases where if a question IS passed on, the essence of it gets lost along the way somewhere. Best example off the top of my head is unlocking gear appearance across all jobs- somehow the answer always assumes people are asking about artifact gear despite how unanimous people are in excluding it from cross-role unlocks. Or all the fluff requests being picked for Q&As despite people asking good questions about future plans for gameplay, insight on design choices, and more lore for underserved clans.

It feels like feedback goes into a mystery box that has a high chance of misinterpreting or outright losing the request as it goes from us to... wherever it's supposed to go. I don't think a dedicated rep would solve that, they'd just be the fall guy for the crummy feedback system.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

No, it won't. Moving BLU threads in the DPS discussion is not going to make the threads go away until the frustration over this starts to die out.

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Yep, banning of the people making those threads in General would stop them from popping up...in general anyway.

The point here is that general discussion is NOT for everything under the sun. The reason why all the other places are abandoned and dead is because everyone posts everything in general, whether or not it have a spot it should go to. Talks about Blue does have their place in DPS section. It's as simple as that. By posting them here, in general discussion, the person KNOWINGLY breaks forum rules.

So...ask yourself. Do you want them to actually be more practically active?! Because I can tell you now...if you'll get your wish and they'll be forced to actually enforce forum rules to contain the results...you'll only learn how fast people can get banned on the forums. And this time...for a good reason.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

The other problem is that it almost feels as if the mods are trying to silence the negativity. Which just causes more frustration for players.

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Maybe the players should learn more about forums. General discussion in every single forum I have ever come across is for the topics that do not match any other sub-forum.

And to quote from a sticky post:

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

The purpose of this forum is for players to hold discussions on DPS roles and its tactics with other players.

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DPS roles forum is most certainly the place to talk about Blue Mage now that it have released. Before it was fine in here because...well...it was all speculations and "what if's". Hence why stuff was not moved back then as far as I know.

What is reasonable in general discussion is the Limited Job discussion. One could argue it being fit for the "Other Battle Systems"...but it's a different version of a job system. Not exactly a "battle" system. So it's more a "case by case" basis.

You thinking that moving threads to where they should have been in the first place is some sort of "stealth mission" to hide shows how absolutely horrid your understanding of forums structure is. Nothing more, nothing less.


Now, those flawed aspects of your post aside, I agree that Square Enix's side SHOULD have more "contact" with the community, but not on forums and not directly. More specifically, I do believe they should make regular news on what was brought under consideration in respect to "hot" topics among the community, what is currently being worked on (in general, not details) and some random trivia from the development/management of the game.

I hear a lot of non-jp feedback is ignored and reps are just as annoyed as players, but they can’t express this due to the rather strict guidelines on representing SE as a company.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I hear a lot of non-jp feedback is ignored and reps are just as annoyed as players, but they can’t express this due to the rather strict guidelines on representing SE as a company.

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I worry about that sometimes, although I feel like I've seen on a number of occasions people's, and my own, feedback listened to as well. It's just possible that feedback happened to be their plan already or was similarly messaged from the Japanese side first though.

I feel it would be sad to ignore around half your user base due to language, although I understand making your company work cross a language is a special feat that tries everyone's patience on top of the stress that just having to deal with more people is. On the other hand . . . it's like half their audience, or more, either speaks English as a first or second language - I feel like if they did actively ignore something of that scale, just seems like a bad (or at least sad) choice lol. Although I'm not saying I think they ignore us (or not), just feel it would be sad if that was the case.

Would love to see more interaction from the Reps, but I'm certain such a task would cause more stress.

I mean yeah. That's kind of how it tends to go. NA/General western audience is ignored, and stuff changes if JP speaks. But JP doesn't usually speak, so.

Why? So people can dissect everything they say and cause nothing but PR issues because people are snowflakes and everyone just loves to stand out and try to make people look smaller than them? I think they give us plenty of info. You wanna know what's it's like to have a team completely unresponsive and completely out of touch with the community? Go play wow.. it's a disaster over there right now because of it.

What we need is for [GM] Dave to return

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I hear a lot of non-jp feedback is ignored and reps are just as annoyed as players, but they can’t express this due to the rather strict guidelines on representing SE as a company.

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Where'd you hear that?

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Aren't those questions intentionally hand-picked by them? Every Q&A thread I've seen had interesting questions that were ignored for the more superficial ones.

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Not ones where players are given a mic and it seems interviews are not looked at beforehand, but given a guideline of what not to ask. Forum questions are hand-picked and I think part of which gets picked are based on the amounts of likes it generates. Otherwise, we've seen them use a bag to draw random questions written on cards from players.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

~snip~

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Trying to consolidate threads is not the same as silencing. Silencing would be outright removing or locking threads, not moving them to appropriate sections. I also doubt there is anything that they reps could say that wouldn't be met with... aggression... with at least some players, especially with discontentment still rather fresh. You can't curtail frustration when the player wants to hear their perspective is correct and they'll do something about it - they simply can't make that guarantee. At best, all they could say is, 'We'll talk with the dev team.' Then players get mad when they hear nothing more.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Where'd you hear that?

EDIT:



Not ones where players are given a mic and it seems interviews are not looked at beforehand, but given a guideline of what not to ask. Forum questions are hand-picked and I think part of which gets picked are based on the amounts of likes it generates. Otherwise, we've seen them use a bag to draw random questions written on cards from players.



Trying to consolidate threads is not the same as silencing. Silencing would be outright removing or locking threads, not moving them to appropriate sections. I also doubt there is anything that they reps could say that wouldn't be met with... aggression... with at least some players, especially with discontentment still rather fresh. You can't curtail frustration when the player wants to hear their perspective is correct and they'll do something about it - they simply can't make that guarantee. At best, all they could say is, 'We'll talk with the dev team.' Then players get mad when they hear nothing more.

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They have been removing threads. Counted at least 2 myself related to BLU, without even a word.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

They have been removing threads. Counted at least 2 myself related to BLU, without even a word.

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And how many of these BLU threads get heated past being a respectable discussion or threads that end up going off topic. It's not just a BLU thing that threads occasionally disappear but there is usually a reason for it, and whatever is lost in that thread could of just been placed in a current thread to begin with. Players regularly duplicate things not reading the forum rules regardless of whether something is gaining a lot of attention or not.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

And how many of these BLU threads get heated past being a respectable discussion or threads that end up going off topic. It's not just a BLU thing that threads occasionally disappear but there is usually a reason for it, and whatever is lost in that thread could of just been placed in a current thread to begin with. Players regularly duplicate things not reading the forum rules regardless of whether something is gaining a lot of attention or not.

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That's the thing, good reason or no, we don't get any explanation at ALL! It is the lack of communication that is the problem here.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

That's the thing, we don't get any reason at ALL! It is the lack of communication that is the problem here.

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Aa per the below, if someone else reports a post then SE can delete it or/and close the thread with no reason given. That's what we agree to when using the forums, so really all we can do is speculate that posts and threads in question break the rules and action was taken accordingly. We have no right in this case to demand any form of communication from them.

"If you happen to find a post that may be violating the FINAL FANTASY XIV User Agreement and/or the FINAL FANTASY XIV Forum Guidelines, you may report the post by using the "Report Post" feature placed at the bottom of each post. Square Enix will take proper action based on the reported details, but please understand that details of the investigation and action taken cannot be disclosed."

The lack of explanation is kind of tricky. If a thread is deleted, it's no longer there for them to post an explanation as to why it's been deleted...

One thing I'd like to point out quickly as I've seen it mentioned a few times (sorry if this has already been answered, I've not read the whole thread).
Blue Mage is classified as a caster (DPS) with the same role actions as SMN/BLM/RDM. So it makes sense to move the BLU threads (and whatever they may contain) over to the DPS Role section of the forums. I understand that some people classify BLU as content instead of a job, and that's fine, but to SE it is a DPS, therefore it makes sense that that's where the threads have been going.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

That's the thing, good reason or no, we don't get any explanation at ALL! It is the lack of communication that is the problem here.

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No problem i communicate with you
Stop posting another blue salt thread and use the search function
i hope this was helpful

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The lack of explanation is kind of tricky. If a thread is deleted, it's no longer there for them to post an explanation as to why it's been deleted...

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That is why mods used to lock the thread first, which had been done in the past.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

That is why mods used to lock the thread first, which had been done in the past.

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Locking prevents further escalation in the given thread. It does not prevent escalation in new threads, and believe me...a particularly heated response WILL get players to post "I wanted to post this volatile stuff in the original thread, but it was locked, so I'll bash the poster X in this new thread" threads. All over the place.

If a thread will be deleted...well, not only is the offensive content (when it is offensive) out of sight, out of mind, as they say...but people are going to be far, far less likely to make references to it...thus they won't post threads "Hey, I've been having a flame war in thread X, but it no longer exists, so here's my response to something that you can no longer read.".

Basically, deletion is done when a thread does more bad than good and simple post deletion won't change much (or large chunk of posts would need to be deleted). And believe me...a swamp of threads about the exact same topic ALREADY does more bad than good, let alone what kinda stuff can be found in some of them.

If your only goal is to silence people, then yes, deleting threads without any word sounds like a wonderful idea.


But that is not a goal a community should want to endorse. Take a look at the popular threads and Dev Tracker and ask yourself if those are really accurate representation of what people are talking about right now. Some of those 3 threads haven't even been posted this year, and the dev tracker looks even more out of place.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Locking prevents further escalation in the given thread. It does not prevent escalation in new threads, and believe me...a particularly heated response WILL get players to post "I wanted to post this volatile stuff in the original thread, but it was locked, so I'll bash the poster X in this new thread" threads. All over the place.

If a thread will be deleted...well, not only is the offensive content (when it is offensive) out of sight, out of mind, as they say...but people are going to be far, far less likely to make references to it...thus they won't post threads "Hey, I've been having a flame war in thread X, but it no longer exists, so here's my response to something that you can no longer read.".

Basically, deletion is done when a thread does more bad than good and simple post deletion won't change much (or large chunk of posts would need to be deleted). And believe me...a swamp of threads about the exact same topic ALREADY does more bad than good, let alone what kinda stuff can be found in some of them.

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That wasn't the case with the Eureka threads, save for Pyros. It certainly wasn't the case with housing either. People are going to vent however they need to, and deleting a thread is not the right way to go about it. It could be encouraged by the mods to keep all related criticism and concerns into a megathread - but that would require the mods actually communicate in the first place. And no, just having forum rules pinned somewhere is not adequate. When you have a hot topic that frustrates posters, they're going to speak up. Getting rid of it doesn't make those complaints less valid just because some people feel it does more bad than good. Posters are rightfully upset about some things that have happened, and the basic lack of decent acknowledgement that our worries have even a little bit of merit is flat out frustrating to see.

And in spite of what you and another poster said, advocating for reporting people just for stating their opinion on content in a manner that honestly is not offensive in nature is not the right way to go about handling things.

At the last Fanfest, Yoshi said that he has the top 10 threads each week translated so they can review them so we are being heard.

But yes, I agree that the NA CMs are rather rare, I tend to see a lot more action out of the EU staff than the NA staff. If you go to the JP forums, you will see so many little crown responses it will make your head spin.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

If a thread will be deleted...well, not only is the offensive content (when it is offensive) out of sight, out of mind, as they say...but people are going to be far, far less likely to make references to it...thus they won't post threads "Hey, I've been having a flame war in thread X, but it no longer exists, so here's my response to something that you can no longer read.".

Basically, deletion is done when a thread does more bad than good and simple post deletion won't change much (or large chunk of posts would need to be deleted). And believe me...a swamp of threads about the exact same topic ALREADY does more bad than good, let alone what kinda stuff can be found in some of them.

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I would take a guess that mods might also be quicker to delete one thread that's turned nasty if there are multiple threads on that topic - even more so if the same actual debate-arguments are being posted in both places.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

At the last Fanfest, Yoshi said that he has the top 10 threads each week translated so they can review them so we are being heard.

But yes, I agree that the NA CMs are rather rare, I tend to see a lot more action out of the EU staff than the NA staff. If you go to the JP forums, you will see so many little crown responses it will make your head spin.

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You should separate the staff by language instead of region. A large amount of EU players play the english client of the game and don't read the french or german forums. Might seem a tad pedantic to say this, but I don't want people to be under the impression that all EU players benefit from the extra CM activity on the french and german forums.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

You should separate the staff by language instead of region. A large amount of EU players play the english client of the game and don't read the french or german forums. Might seem a tad pedantic to say this, but I don't want people to be under the impression that all EU players benefit from the extra CM activity on the french and german forums.

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I agree. This is the English language forum, not the NA forum. More people in the EU region understand English than they do German or French. To put it into perspective, Canada has a higher percentage of French speakers than the EU. For some reason the French forum is never referred to as the Canadian forum. :D

Regarding the topic it would be nice to have more direct communication with the staff. When we have to get tickets to an event in another country in order to ask questions or upvote posts in specific threads to get them translated and delivered to the devs more or less intact, it doesn't feel like the OF has any purpose other than discussions with other players.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

If your only goal is to silence people, then yes, deleting threads without any word sounds like a wonderful idea.

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Deleting threads is not done to silence people but to remove violations and flaming! That's what my entire post was about, so how did you get the idea of it saying that it's to silence valid concerns!

Deleting anything won't silence people. But it will make people reflect on what they wrote and 'just in case' post their complaints in a toned down manner, possibly in a different thread that ALREADY exists instead of making a new one.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

But that is not a goal a community should want to endorse.

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First and foremost the community should endorse actually paying attention when reading in each other. That'd remove majority of arguments right off the bat.

And without those stupid arguments based on someones inability or unwillingness to read correctly, communications from the developers and community managers would have much lower risk of backfiring, making them far more likely.

As for your talk about dev tracker and what not...just read my previous post. I won't waste time repeating myself.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

People are going to vent however they need to, and deleting a thread is not the right way to go about it.

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Like above, there is nothing wrong with complaints. But there's a difference between a 'constructive criticism' and 'senseless bashing'. Deleting a post is a localized countermeasure against localized drivel like that, deleting a thread is a nuke when the tread as a whole is the problem.

Just look at the forum. There are numerous criticizing threads. They're not removed because they manage to not cross the border. If a thread was deleted then it clearly means they were somehow different from the ones that were not removed, in a negative way.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

It could be encouraged by the mods to keep all related criticism and concerns into a megathread - but that would require the mods actually communicate in the first place. And no, just having forum rules pinned somewhere is not adequate.

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That's the problem. You think that you have the right to decide what's adequate and what's not because you think you somehow are some sort of oracle on what people should do with their property.

Forum rules being publicly available IS adequate. IT IS VERY MUCH ENOUGH! If you went to, say, Saudi Arabia and drunk alcohol in public, you have only yourself to blame if you end up being executed. It's YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to learn what is allowed on another persons property! Stop making excuses for lazy, inconsiderate, egoistical, self-centered people!

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

And in spite of what you and another poster said, advocating for reporting people just for stating their opinion on content in a manner that honestly is not offensive in nature is not the right way to go about handling things.

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I didn't advocate any reporting. All I said was that moderators would need to be far less lenient and far more active in enforcing the existing rules if the community managers would actually interact with people on forums. And even then, stop taking things out of thin air. No one said anything about reporting people for opinions, sans you and possibly people that side with you.

And yes, I've grown rather irked here so I won't post beyond this on this thread. Suit yourselves.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

We used to get a lot more feedback.

You know those people with the housing comment in their signatures? The ones who can't let go anytime the devs change something that's planned or something doesn't get implemented?

Yeah, that's why we don't get that anymore.

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No. We didn't get a lot more feedback before, it was all cross posts just like it is now. That's been about as unchanging as the content release schedule after ARR came out.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah... after 2 years of asking about the status of the male bunny outfit and not asking actual questions of the game or story when presented to the NA player-base, I can definitely say I am actually embarrassed to be part of this side of the community.

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Yes, it's all the community's fault. It couldn't possibly be that they hand pick every question and aim for the most meaningless non-answers they can find. This is the same as trying to portray the forum as some kind of indecisive hive mind instead of individuals like they are.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

No. We didn't get a lot more feedback before, it was all cross posts just like it is now. That's been about as unchanging as the content release schedule after ARR came out.




Yes, it's all the community's fault. It couldn't possibly be that they hand pick every question and aim for the most meaningless non-answers they can find. This is the same as trying to portray the forum as some kind of indecisive hive mind instead of individuals like they are.

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It is ironic that be trying to avoid some certain questions or to kick the can down the road, the devs only ensure that they will be asked again.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

So we do have them. Okay, that's good then. That leads me to my next question, which is: are they allowed to bring direct feedback to the devs? Doesn't seem like it to me, but I'm open to having my mind changed on that. I have to reiterate, because I know how these forums tend to go, I am not suggesting that each and every little issue should be addressed and forwarded. That would be next to impossible because anything and everything in this game can become a subject of annoyance to somebody. But at the very least, feedback on something that a huge chunk of the community has an issue about: surely that could at least warrant being forwarded to the devs.

Or maybe that does happen anyway and the feedback is either ignored, doesn't make it to the dev team, or is misinterpreted?

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I think they're allowed but I feel a lot of it just gets ignored and the devs listen more to the raw data on how content is being done. What seems to be working, what doesn't and decisions are based on that. I feel its due to cultural reasoning. Honor and respect your elders, always respect the chain of command and don't speak unless spoken to unless you have a higher rank in the chain.

I say that because a while back I remember watching a "making of" video from Team Ninja. In one segment I clearly remember lower ranked staff member handing a list of suggestions he thought of to help the game to the lead dev in his office. The lead dev thanked him for his efforts and suggestions and the lower staff member left the office. The lead dev didn't read anything in the five seconds it took for him to place the suggestions list in the trash can.

I believe any community rep is held to that same standard even if they're from outside Japan. As in "keep the forums clean, go on the streams and say what we tell you to say. We pay you to do this so just do this and don't get out of line. Going outside your role is forbidden". Given that a lot of youtube videos exist from people saying that working in Japan isn't exactly peaches and cream. I don't doubt for a minute that community reps are kept on a very short leash in the company food chain.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

It is ironic that be trying to avoid some certain questions or to kick the can down the road, the devs only ensure that they will be asked again.

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I've asked before - is this perhaps (yet again) a cultural difference? If a Japanese person asks someone a question and gets a polite non-answer like the devs tend to give, do they take that as a sign that they should not ask again?

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

They use to do that. I think after a few years they gave up due to the amount of negativity everything they do gets.

Or maybe the lack of Camate is to attribute to this as well.

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They used to give us hints at upcoming content. My assumption is that they were told to shut up, so they could keep the flow of information consistent. Now all content hints are released in Japanese, and if we're very lucky those hints get translated for the other languages.

75 Posts and not even a slight answer, gotta love this xD

The vocal minority of players who come into the forums to whine is not representative of most players who just enjoy playing the game. No reason to waste resources placating these entitled individuals. SE did the right thing.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

That's the problem. You think that you have the right to decide what's adequate and what's not because you think you somehow are some sort of oracle on what people should do with their property.

Forum rules being publicly available IS adequate. IT IS VERY MUCH ENOUGH! If you went to, say, Saudi Arabia and drunk alcohol in public, you have only yourself to blame if you end up being executed. It's YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to learn what is allowed on another persons property! Stop making excuses for lazy, inconsiderate, egoistical, self-centered people!

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So...I give my opinion on what I personally think could potentially work better and somehow you interpret that as being some kind of oracle? What? No, seriously, what? Oracle? Egotistical? What even are you on about? Gotta love this trend of bringing real-world country rules into a discussion about online forum policy. Chill with that noise. I give what is called an opinion - just like most everyone on the forums. Just because you disagree with it doesn't make someone "inconsiderate" or "self-centered". Smh.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

I didn't advocate any reporting. All I said was that moderators would need to be far less lenient and far more active in enforcing the existing rules if the community managers would actually interact with people on forums. And even then, stop taking things out of thin air. No one said anything about reporting people for opinions, sans you and possibly people that side with you.

And yes, I've grown rather irked here so I won't post beyond this on this thread. Suit yourselves.

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Reporting reporting for pointing out issues that have occurred in this expansion is rather petty. Seems like you want the mods to follow the rules to a T, and thus, that means that anybody who says something negative about anything regarding Square would be ban worthy. Seems kind of silly to enforce a policy on a global discussion forum where even small criticism is not allowed.

Oh this is getting good,i'm giving you a like Kaiva.Chips please!?

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Where'd you hear that?

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When certain people have left the company.

NA does not really have a community team, we have a public events team. If they changed the name of it people would have different expectations for what we will actually be receiving which is basically nothing. They manage public facing events and interactions with other companies (i.e. interviews, promotional shows like E3, CES, etc.).