/vape emote

I think it is kind of funny how blurred the lines can be. We have whores in game (npc and pc). The WoL kills people, slaughters countless animals, is seen drinking (an assumed alcoholic beverage) with Aymeric, watches Moogles get wasted and even drugs them him/herself... yet a smoke emote crosses the line. SMH

Nothing promotes smoking more than telling people not to do it. The tobacco companies having been benefiting from anti smoke campaigns for decades. Putting a smoking emote in the game would encourage people to smoke like it encourages them to use violence to resolve conflict: not at all.

I think it's just one of many possible emotes that simply just aren't in the game.

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Originally Posted by Gralna

Rating argument is moot, there are other games rated T where the player can smoke. Lord of the Rings online is probably the closest comparison to this game, that has a smoking emote.

I personally would like to have a /smoke or /pipe emote, especially if it was persistent. Would be good to use for when I go on smoke breaks :P

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One could say using the "another game does it, we should be able to do it too!" is also kind of a moot argument since those games are not controlled or owned by SE. What one company does, does not mean all companies should do it too.

Smoking, and drinking, isn't normally seen as a Heroic act. A glass of wine at dinner isn't normally seen as bad but when you sit and drink a whole 6 pack it's kinda looked at with disdain. Smoking is also normally reserved for the villains now a days. Putting evil with evil since smoking is harmful. Granted you have the Champagne firework from weddings so maybe a smoke emote isn't that far fetched. However having our character run around constantly doing the smoking emote make make them look less heroic?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Nothing promotes smoking more than telling people not to do it.

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Well, I think it's the whole "forbidden fruit" sort of idea that people telling others not to do it sets off other people in doing it. Some people have the willpower to ignore those impulses, others don't and let their curiosity take over instead too.

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

Vaping is incredibly damaging to your health. The chemicals used in it cause popcorn lung, which currently has no cure.

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Popcorn lung from vaping is a smear campaign by tobacco companies to get vapers back to smoking. The ONLY people that have ever contracted popcorn lung are people that worked in the factories where diacetyl became airborn and was inhaled in extremely highly concentrations.

While research is still ongoing as to the long term health issues vaping may cause, there has been some research into this showing that the chances of vapers contracting popcorn lung is basically null. The main case for this being that cigarettes contain even higher concentrations of diacetyl than e-liquid does and in the over 100 years of research into the health risks of smoking cigarettes there has never been a case of someone smoking them and contracting popcorn lung. Further, many e-liquid manufacturers are starting to shy away from using diacetyl due to the bad publicity aimed at it, further invalidating the argument that vaping in itself causes popcorn lung.

Please do your own research before spouting out media claims.

Sources

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

One could say using the "another game does it, we should be able to do it too!" is also kind of a moot argument since those games are not controlled or owned by SE. What one company does, does not mean all companies should do it too.

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I was never arguing that case, my case was to earlier posts saying that they can't implement tobacco use without changing the games rating. I merely provided a case where having a /smoke emote didn't cause a game to have to change its rating.

While I would personally enjoy a smoke emote in game, that is ultimately a decision left to the developers. As to the odds of it happening, I am unsure but positive since smoking in Europe and Asia is more popular atm than in America. Source

Gonna quote myself from a similar topic:

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Originally Posted by Destati

Apparently in a past interview it was stated that it could possibly be implemented in the form of a "smoking candy" or something. If this is the case I really do hope they'll add it in whatever shape or form. Besides, we've already got all these NPCs holding pipes, not to mention it's the signature accessory of a certain Stormblood villain...

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In any case, whether it has an actual smoke animation or not, I would very much like for my character to have the ability to hold a pipe. I do not smoke IRL, nor do I have any plans to start doing so, but in RP it's a rather significant aspect of my character.

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

Vaping is incredibly damaging to your health. The chemicals used in it cause popcorn lung, which currently has no cure.

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Quite funny, I tend to Vape too much even with 12mg of Nicotine that is in Shake 'n Vape Liquids.
My Health has gotten better and yes, I do have Asthma and smoked a Pack of Cigarettes before.

Trust me, there is a difference between not being able to sleep because you can't breathe anymore or being able to take a deep breath without Problems.

Just false Propaganda spread by the Tobacco Companies, that's mainly due of the Fact that Vaping becomes a lot cheaper if you get into "DIY" and by cheaper I mean a lot cheaper.

Please, if you are so aware of the chemicals in Liquids, just write them down here. Usually ends up funny once you realize those Chemicals are also used in your Daily Life =)

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I'd be for an Allagan E-Cigarette in Tube Style, if not a simple Stacked Tube when it comes to the size of that thing.

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

Some of the argumentation in this thread is absolutely, mind numbingly silly.

The game is already rated for Alchol and Tobacco and the PC's usage; or lack thereof, is not going to change that rating.

As to the comment of it affecting the ratings in other countries. Simple solution, don't release that emote in that/those country/ies.

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Actually, I believe there's differences in rating based on if something is just shown, vs if the player can participate.

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

Actually, I believe there's differences in rating based on if something is just shown, vs if the player can participate.

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If I'm not mistaken that would fall under the 'Alcohol/Drug/Tobacco Reference' rating, whereas the game is rated for 'Alcohol/Tobacco Use'. I'm still standing by the notion that the rating of the game would not change. Perhaps in other countries with different rating systems, but not here in the states.

No thank you.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

https://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.aspx
[list of content descriptors]

Honestly I think the current ESRB is currently off in terms of use. I would say it's Tobacco Reference, not Use of Tobacco.

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Why do you say it should be only a "tobacco reference"? The NPCs are shown using it, therefore the game contains "use of tobacco".

(I would take a guess and say that having the player visibly use it would be the threshold for a higher rating, but having the ashtray in the house is pushing as close as they can to implying it without actually showing it. Actually holding one is probably crossing the line - maybe an arbitrary line, but it's there and the devs don't want to go over it.)

And the list of descriptors needs to be read in conjunction with the actual ratings above it. eg:

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TEEN
Content is generally suitable for ages 13 and up. May contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling and/or infrequent use of strong language.

MATURE
Content is generally suitable for ages 17 and up. May contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.

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A T-rated game and an M-rated game might both get the descriptor "Language" applied next to their main rating, but that doesn't mean they are free to use the same degree of strong language. While it's still possible they'll be the same (eg. if the M rating is due to a different element of that game, and the language itself is only worthy of a T rating), the M-rated game is still able to have a higher degree of it.

Or from the site's own FAQ page:

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Do Content Descriptors list all of the different content found in a game or app?

Content Descriptors are not intended to be a listing of every type of content one might encounter in the course of playing a game or using an app. They are applied within the context of the product's overall content and relative to the Rating Category assigned, and are there to advise of content that may have triggered a particular rating and/or may be of interest or concern.

As such, the absence of a Content Descriptor does not necessarily mean the total absence of such content, and a given Content Descriptor may not always refer to precisely the same type or intensity of content depending on the Rating Category assigned. For instance, Suggestive Themes in an E10+ game may refer to a brief instance of provocative clothing on a character whereas in a Teen game it may refer to more frequent depictions of provocative clothing accompanied with spoken innuendo.

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What are the criteria by which ratings are assigned?

ESRB raters are trained to consider a wide range of pertinent content and other elements in assigning a rating. Pertinent content is any content that accurately reflects both:

• the most extreme content of the final product - in terms of relevant rating criteria such as violence, language, sexuality, gambling, and alcohol, tobacco and drug reference or use; and
• the final product as a whole - demonstrating the game's context (such as setting, storyline and objectives) and relative frequency of extreme content.

Given the interactive nature of video games the ESRB rating system also takes into account certain unique elements, such as the viewer's perspective, reward system and the degree of player control.

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Also the "minimal blood" allowed in T versus "blood and gore" in M is interesting, because that seems to be exactly an issue that the devs were talking about when they released the Rathalos fight. They said they wanted to include the Monster Hunter mechanism of targeting and cutting off parts of its body, but couldn't because it would affect the game's ratings in some countries.

Checking the list of descriptors, Blood and Gore covers "depictions of blood or the mutilation of body parts". So if that's allowed in M-rated content and not T, then that seems to be exactly why that decision was made. (Not blaming this rating system specifically - I expect other countries might have similar 'thresholds' of what separates different rating levels.)


There will be an actual set of guidelines somewhere that actually outlines every type of rateable content, and what degree of it leads to each rating. I thought I've found it online before, at least the Australian version, but I can't seem to find it now.


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Originally Posted by Raikai

I've actually just suggested /vape because it seemed like a less harmful way of saying /smoke, but in reality it - is - /smoke. It was just nomenclature.

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It's not "just nomenclature" and they're not the same thing. The debate over relative health impacts aside, "vaping" is a specific modern alternative to smoking, and does not at all imply the "smoking a pipe" animation that you're actually asking for.

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

Actually, I believe there's differences in rating based on if something is just shown, vs if the player can participate.

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Again, players using a /smoke emote would still only fall under the T rating which wouldn't require a rating change. LotRO has a /smoke emote and it's only rate T.

https://www.mobygames.com/images/cov...back-cover.jpg

They even have a mini game of smoking

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...yX5Y4GTH5bwx6z

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's not "just nomenclature" and they're not the same thing. The debate over relative health impacts aside, "vaping" is a specific modern alternative to smoking, and does not at all imply the "smoking a pipe" animation that you're actually asking for.

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I meant, in my case... I just thought the word "vape" would be less aggravating than "smoke", since it's a fiction environment.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I meant, in my case... I just thought the word "vape" would be less aggravating than "smoke", since it's a fiction environment.

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They're not synonymous, though. It's not a more polite way of saying the same thing, it's a separate (although related) thing they don't do in that fictional environment, or in the time period the setting is primarily based on.

Granted, there are all sorts of strange high-tech things working their way into the story, but it's still not the same thing as the existing NPC emote of smoking a pipe. There is no vapour in that pipe. It is smoke. Therefore they are not vaping, they are smoking.

I think a funny way to go about this would be to make the vape emote more realistic. Every time it gets used a hidden value starts to fill. Once the value starts to fill your character starts to cough intermittently and gasp for air then finally when its full collapses due to their inability to breathe and then shortly thereafter dies and has to respawn or get raised.... I hate vaping with a passion. Please no vape emote. If you must do a smoke emote make it a pipe or something classy.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Smoking, and drinking, isn't normally seen as a Heroic act. A glass of wine at dinner isn't normally seen as bad but when you sit and drink a whole 6 pack it's kinda looked at with disdain. Smoking is also normally reserved for the villains now a days. Putting evil with evil since smoking is harmful. Granted you have the Champagne firework from weddings so maybe a smoke emote isn't that far fetched. However having our character run around constantly doing the smoking emote make make them look less heroic?

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I wouldn't say so. There have been many protagonists in fiction that have been smokers. Some even having weakness/health issues as a result of it. John Constantine immediately comes to mind, and he doesn't face off against your typical bad boy that has a different perspective. He battles against true evil.

From a practical standpoint though, what the WoL goes through physically would be much more difficult if he/she was a smoker. I'm not talking about long falls, or fighting an Eikon. Just simply the amount of running, swimming, even riding your chocobo would all be much more difficult to do in the amount the WoL does.

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

I think a funny way to go about this would be to make the vape emote more realistic. Every time it gets used a hidden value starts to fill. Once the value starts to fill your character starts to cough intermittently and gasp for air then finally when its full collapses due to their inability to breathe and then shortly thereafter dies and has to respawn or get raised.... I hate vaping with a passion. Please no vape emote. If you must do a smoke emote make it a pipe or something classy.

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I love that you say more realistic, but I have never, not once seen a single person keel over dead from vaping to much. With this logic, the Moogles we see drinking in the beginning of the game should die from liver failure, Aymeric should be checked into rehab for drinking wine, and every single npc who smokes a pipe should be hospitalized for lung cancer. A little much don't you think? With your logic the WoL should be arrested for animal cruelty and obstruction of justice.

Cid in ff7 smokes and he is a nice person :p

Do you really think the game is full of unicorns and rainbows?...We kill people, we kill animals, the energy of the planet is used for summoning Eikons etc etc but having a /smoke emote is the end of the world XD come on

If you don't want to use the emote if they add it just don't use it. Personnally i hate several /dances for my character cause it's just done for girly character so i don't use it, i don't like certain mounts, minions, hairstyles either but i don't care if some people use them.

It's just called freedom.

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

If I'm not mistaken that would fall under the 'Alcohol/Drug/Tobacco Reference' rating, whereas the game is rated for 'Alcohol/Tobacco Use'. I'm still standing by the notion that the rating of the game would not change. Perhaps in other countries with different rating systems, but not here in the states.

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I was only pointing out that there can be a distinction.
Your claim said there couldn't be a difference, but as you so helpfully pointed out, there are different standards for how it is depicted.

My state legalized all that stuff, so I say bring it on. A vape emote would be awesome.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Wow, I'm surprised to see so many opposing the idea, when the game itself already has that element in relevant places.

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The same reason the Korean's don't want Dice emotes. (Promotes gambling.) In the US and Canada smoking/vaping is a rude and gross behavior.

Just because it exist in game, doesn't mean it should exist for the user. In one of the rating systems, any character that is not an historical reference can not smoke or the rating goes up to the equivalent of R. See this: https://variety.com/2018/politics/ne...aa-1202855426/

As silly as it might seem there is a stark difference in the ratings depending on who is performing the action.

If it's an NPC (particularly a Bad Guy) doing the dismemberment/genocide/bloody murder, then as long as it's not explicit, the game can get away with a T rating (and if it's only obliquely referenced maybe even E10). In most cases if it's the player doing it, no matter how censored it is it will be M.
If it's an NPC doing the suggestive themes/sexy time stuff, it can be a T if it's implied or not directly shown. If the player is doing it then the chances of being M go way up regardless of how censored or "tame" it is.
See the pattern?

Regardless of the fact that most people can distinguish games from reality, the perception that the player-controlled character performing undesirable/unhealthy acts normalizes the player to performing those acts IRL is strong. Especially when the game is targeted to a younger audience that may not be legally allowed to perform those activities. I don't care whether or not we get a /smoke emote, but I can see why SE would choose to avoid the situation altogether by not adding one.

Thanks a lot for the clarification on the ratings, I had no idea of such complexities.

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Originally Posted by Haxaan

I love that you say more realistic, but I have never, not once seen a single person keel over dead from vaping to much. With this logic, the Moogles we see drinking in the beginning of the game should die from liver failure, Aymeric should be checked into rehab for drinking wine, and every single npc who smokes a pipe should be hospitalized for lung cancer. A little much don't you think? With your logic the WoL should be arrested for animal cruelty and obstruction of justice.

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You must have missed the news stories about the teen that almost died after only vaping for three weeks due to developing 'Wet Lung'. Or what about the guy that died from having his vape pen explode in his face sending shrapnel into it. I grew up around smokers don't tell me it doesn't have health consequences. I've seen the very real consequences of smoking and watched people unable to walk up a single set of stairs because they can't breathe. It's horrifying. If ya'll want to screw up your life with that stuff by all means, but don't come at me saying it's not realistic because you never seen the consequences yourself. Educate yourself please.

Be funny if a NPC walks up to you and says "Don't do that" every time you do the emote.

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

I was only pointing out that there can be a distinction.
Your claim said there couldn't be a difference, but as you so helpfully pointed out, there are different standards for how it is depicted.

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I never said anything about there not being a difference. I said there wouldn't be a difference in the rating of the game as to E, T, M etc. And there wouldn't be.

And yes, I get that there can be a distinction between the qualifiers that make up a rating. As I said there's 'Alcohol/Drug/Tobacco Reference' and 'Alcohol/Drug/Tobacco Usage' and of those two 'Usage' is the more severe of the two qualifiers. So even that wouldn't change as the game is already under the 'Usage' qualifier.

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

You must have missed the news stories about the teen that almost died after only vaping for three weeks due to developing 'Wet Lung'. Or what about the guy that died from having his vape pen explode in his face sending shrapnel into it.

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Probably false Propaganda as usual, it's the same Story for the "Popcorn Lung" Theory, totally believable...

One should know better about "Battery Safety", I saw plenty People using 10-15 Ampere Batteries in Mech Mods running between 0,08 to 0,15 Ohm's.
Sure the Battery ventilates, that's normal, hence you should learn Ohm's Law when you use Mech Mods.

Battery Safety also applies on regulated Mods, such as Mods in Pen Style.
If you use damaged Batteries or the Plus Pol has no insolator, I'm not surprised those things go up into the air.

No science if Metall, like a Key being loose in your pocket .. together with that Battery, gets a connection between Plus and Minus.

It's simply not clever to get a E-Cigarette that has zero ventile holes into it.
Sorry but if a Battery is venting and there is no way to release the Pressure, that Person was simply stupid.

The game already displays characters who use pipes pretty overtly. There is a furnishing of a cigar. The game implies explicitly the use of both smoking and alcohol as it were. Having an emote where your character can light up is a 'non-issue' in the sense that its not promoting anything.

Rather itd be fun and fair to have said emotes simply because it adds character to our characters. Or atleast the potential. While I myself am not a smoker of any kind or substance, its partly head canon for my character to smoke on occasion. Thats who she is. Im old enough to know the difference.

Frankly the idea of not wanting in the game usually stems more from this notion that "little kids will take up smoking" more so than any other argument one can provide (considering that I hazard most adults wont start lighting up for the first time just a game has an emote.) And the 'kids' argument is fairly flimsy at best. I mean under that same argument, we should have kids riding motorcycles, running around with swords and bows shooting and stabbing things, drinking copious amounts of alcohol, and etc. But we dont. Why? Cause kids arent going to take up smoking just because a game gave us an emote for it, much like almost everything else.

If they want to be SUPER SAFE, just age gate it. Have everyone put in a DOB and then only people above 16 can use the emote. That should work perfectly. /s

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

You must have missed the news stories about the teen that almost died after only vaping for three weeks due to developing 'Wet Lung'. Or what about the guy that died from having his vape pen explode in his face sending shrapnel into it. I grew up around smokers don't tell me it doesn't have health consequences. I've seen the very real consequences of smoking and watched people unable to walk up a single set of stairs because they can't breathe. It's horrifying. If ya'll want to screw up your life with that stuff by all means, but don't come at me saying it's not realistic because you never seen the consequences yourself. Educate yourself please.

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I definitely didn't hear about either of those, but my first question is... why was a teenager smoking a vape in the first place. There are age restrictions on things for a reason. Secondly, using the "vape exploded" argument is the same as saying that people shouldn't use cellphones because the Samsung Galaxy 8 exploded that one time. People who smoke are fully aware of the damage they are doing to their bodies. They are not under any illusion that what they are doing won't hurt them. People who get plastic surgery know that body modification can be dangerous, and even fatal, but they do it anyway. I understand you have an emotional reason for feeling the way you do about this subject, but at the same time, everyone has free will and they are able to decide for themselves what they (or their character) do with their time. Also did you know that breathing air in a heavily populated area is also bad for you? Cars emit toxic gasses that kill people and they are expelled into the air and breathed in by the people who live there. Car exhaust is way more harmful than a cigarette, and way more people drive vehicles than smoke cigarettes.

I think they should put this on the mogstation for $18... per character.

Only concern I have with having the /smoke emote. Walk into a FC room with a bed and see a Roe and a Lala laying on the bed using that emote. I don't know if my eyes can take that.