The Blue Mage Argument at a glance

If u don't like Euraka then i can see you quitting blue mage because blu is a grinding class which is fun alot of ppl quit blue mage because of the grinding for spells i love it like tht. The grinding ppl get the class thy love which i'm hoping soon get added to party finder when thy raise lvl cap thn thy Can't be like you don't hve spells for queues

This whole game is a grind. But there are various different kinds of grinds. Farming trials or raids for loots is a grind but you can't really compare that grind to an Eureka grind. While Blue may seem like it compares to the Eureka, wont because it will actually be a lot easier to level and require to less time to see a level then Eureka. The biggest difference as well as that the grind from leveling a Blue will reap benefits that you will see in other content where as Eureka is limited to that instance only being able to have weapons and glams to show for your effort.

No i'm talking abt spells grind you going to be farming alot

My previous response still stands. Grinding for abilities that will last me the lifecycle of the game as oppose to grinding for items that will last me till the next patch cycle is a preferred choice.

Ok welcome to my world lol :)

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Originally Posted by AC9Breaker

My previous response still stands. Grinding for abilities that will last me the lifecycle of the game as oppose to grinding for items that will last me till the next patch cycle is a preferred choice.

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Last you on what? what will you use them for? level 50 monsters? that you could easily kill with oh, I don't know, a level 70 job?

That doesn't sound like it has lasting appeal really.

That sounds more like it stagnates very easily.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Last you on what? what will you use them for? level 50 monsters? that you could easily kill with oh, I don't know, a level 70 job?

That doesn't sound like it has lasting appeal really.

That sounds more like it stagnates very easily.

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They're raising the level cap above 50 you know...

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

They're raising the level cap above 50 you know...

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You're arguing on the level number, but you know he is talking about the kind of content you have access to.

His point kinda stands, even if it becomes 80 and can go in dungeons, dungeon boss or open field trash isn't really different : no accomplishment whatsoever. It's the content you have access to with a class that makes its appeal. In the long run I mean. Otherwise after you learned everything it hits the closet.

So I hope Masked carnival is good, and that they continue adding such content for BLU. Not opposed to limited jobs so long as they give them contents to do and not just basic ones, that they also add some stuff of relevance the likes of extremes and savages.

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Originally Posted by Karshan

You're arguing on the level number, but you know he is talking about the kind of content you have access to.

His point kinda stands, even if it becomes 80 and can go in dungeons, dungeon boss or open field trash isn't really different : no accomplishment whatsoever. It's the content you have access to with a class that makes its appeal. In the long run I mean. Otherwise after you learned everything it hits the closet.

So I hope Masked carnival is good, and that they continue adding such content for BLU. Not opposed to limited jobs so long as they give them contents to do and not just basic ones, that they also add some stuff of relevance the likes of extremes and savages.

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You've just described 90% of the content I already play anyway. Substituting the odd lv70 raid for the Masked Carnivale doesnt sound like an unfair deal to me.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

You've just described 90% of the content I already play anyway. Substituting the odd lv70 raid for the Masked Carnivale doesnt sound like an unfair deal to me.

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You play 2 year old content on repeat?

I think substituting a level 70 raid for a solo only instance that you need most likely all of your 49 abilities (Which unlike past games you only have a CHANCE of gaining, once per encounter, unless there's another impatient BLU sniping your own skill.) to be proficient at--which means even that is not immediately accessible.

I mean compared to that we'll be able to do--oh I don't know.

All the main scenario quests, the level 70 24 man raid, the new eureka content, as well as still that same 2 year old content. Even a crafting class has a much wider breath of content than BLU on release, so it's weird to me that you act as if one solo instance is worth--everything else in the game, which I strongly disagree with, and saying "Well I don't play that stuff anyway" I beg the question then--what were you doing before BLU?

And what will you do when you inevitably get all 49 skills and beat all levels of the carnival?

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

You play 2 year old content on repeat?

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Is that somehow worse than playing 2 month old content on repeat?

Yes, im currently levelling WAR, I'm up to level 45 and completing the hunting log.
I'm levelling RDM too and helping out my FC with mount farms for ARR and HW trials.
I tecently made it through Bahamut fir the first time and im still only half-way through Alexander
I'm gradually getting through the gathering logs, don't quite have the time or patience to invest in crafting though as you need to do all of them.

I've done Omega, I've done Suzaku, I've done Ridorana. They're no more interesting to me than Shiva or Thordan.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

You play 2 year old content on repeat?

I think substituting a level 70 raid for a solo only instance that you need most likely all of your 49 abilities (Which unlike past games you only have a CHANCE of gaining, once per encounter, unless there's another impatient BLU sniping your own skill.) to be proficient at--which means even that is not immediately accessible.

I mean compared to that we'll be able to do--oh I don't know.

All the main scenario quests, the level 70 24 man raid, the new eureka content, as well as still that same 2 year old content. Even a crafting class has a much wider breath of content than BLU on release, so it's weird to me that you act as if one solo instance is worth--everything else in the game, which I strongly disagree with, and saying "Well I don't play that stuff anyway" I beg the question then--what were you doing before BLU?

And what will you do when you inevitably get all 49 skills and beat all levels of the carnival?

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The same thing everyone else does when they are done with the content that interests them? Find other content or play something else? Not every person in this game does the eureka grind, or the savage/ultimate grind/ or mount farms, or even the crafting and gathering stuff yet they still find things to do.. so.. yeah.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Is that somehow worse than playing 2 month old content on repeat?

Yes, im currently levelling WAR, I'm up to level 45 and completing the hunting log.
I'm levelling RDM too and helping out my FC with mount farms for ARR and HW trials.
I tecently made it through Bahamut fir the first time and im still only half-way through Alexander
I'm gradually getting through the gathering logs, don't quite have the time or patience to invest in crafting though as you need to do all of them.

I've done Omega, I've done Suzaku, I've done Ridorana. They're no more interesting to me than Shiva or Thordan.

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Yes? 2 months is generally speaking a far shorter timespan than...2 years, especially when that 2 year old content is for all intents and purposes, incredibly easy(due to being nerf'd) lacks certain aspects of recent dungeons (No consistent dungeon music, the same battle track looping) or are incredibly tedious to go through (tam tara is tam tara is tam tara is tam tara)

Trying to equate 2 year old content to relevant 2 month old content is criminally wrong and biased at best. To each their own however, if you enjoy doing aurum vale, far be it for me to stop you from providing tank queue to whatever poor dps is trying to finish that.

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The same thing everyone else does when they are done with the content that interests them? Find other content or play something else? Not every person in this game does the eureka grind, or the savage/ultimate grind/ or mount farms, or even the crafting and gathering stuff yet they still find things to do.. so.. yeah.

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So essentially, you'll drop it and find no more use for it then?

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

So essentially, you'll drop it and find no more use for it then?

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Given that I log on every single day and still play for several hours, no I don't think so. I'll find random things to do that will keep me entertained. I know that's a shocking thought isn't it? Someone who actually finds different things to do?! THE HORROR!!! THE HORROR!!!!!!!!
Like seriously dude. C'mon now. I'm not an end game raider, I don't really do a ton of the crafting and gathering thing. I'm slowly levelling those up when I get super bored but that's about it. I'm not usually one for mount farming unless the mood strikes me, I take Eureka at a casual pace, yet I still log on every day and have fun doing whatever I decide to do. Maybe I'll run around playing in the gold saucer, maybe I'll go hunting, maybe I'll play around with various rotations or jobs, maybe I'll run maps with my fc, maybe I'll do maps on my own, Go work on sight seeing logs, or play triple triad.. Blue Mage will just be another one of those things I can do to keep myself entertained.. and hey let me tell you a little secret. Sometimes. I don't do anything and I just sit and chill out with my fc mates talking to them and having a good laugh.

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Given that I log on every single day and still play for several hours, no I don't think so. I'll find random things to do that will keep me entertained. I know that's a shocking thought isn't it? Someone who actually finds different things to do?! THE HORROR!!! THE HORROR!!!!!!!!
Like seriously dude. C'mon now. I'm not an end game raider, I don't really do a ton of the crafting and gathering thing. I'm slowly levelling those up when I get super bored but that's about it. I'm not usually one for mount farming unless the mood strikes me, I take Eureka at a casual pace, yet I still log on every day and have fun doing whatever I decide to do. Maybe I'll run around playing in the gold saucer, maybe I'll go hunting, maybe I'll play around with various rotations or jobs, maybe I'll run maps with my fc, maybe I'll do maps on my own, Go work on sight seeing logs, or play triple triad.. Blue Mage will just be another one of those things I can do to keep myself entertained.. and hey let me tell you a little secret. Sometimes. I don't do anything and I just sit and chill out with my fc mates talking to them and having a good laugh.

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There's nothing shocking about that statement and there's no reason to be pedantic about it, like I replied to the previous poster, if that's how you enjoy content that's fine and dandy with me. That still absolutely has nothing to do with BLU's longevity to anyone else, just because there are people still playing triple triad, does not a response to it's problems make.

OK, so how about waiting for New Content like everyone else does?

BLU isn't a stillborn, it can grow, just like the rest of the game has over time.

How many people thought 1.0 was the end of 14? Yet, here we are on the way to 5.0.

Diadems probably a good example of a worst case scenario: It's not dead, just comatose.

But thanks to Diadem, we now have Eureka.

Maybe BLU will be the Diadem of Jobs, maybe not.

But it's a first step, and that's what matters right?

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Originally Posted by Mordoni

OK, so how about waiting for New Content like everyone else does?

BLU isn't a stillborn, it can grow, just like the rest of the game has over time.

How many people thought 1.0 was the end of 14? Yet, here we are on the way to 5.0.

Diadems probably a good example of a worst case scenario: It's not dead, just comatose.

But thanks to Diadem, we now have Eureka.

Maybe BLU will be the Diadem of Jobs, maybe not.

But it's a first step, and that's what matters right?

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In the same way that wanderer's minuet was just a "wait and see" thing that was NOTHING like expectations? I'm basing my opinion off of what has been shown thus far, BLU is not a job, it is side content and an insult to people that have waited for it be implemented into this game as well.

An actual job.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

In the same way that wanderer's minuet was just a "wait and see" thing that was NOTHING like expectations? I'm basing my opinion off of what has been shown thus far, BLU is not a job, it is side content and an insult to people that have waited for it be implemented into this game as well.

An actual job.

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You mean people who apparently didn’t read various interviews where it had been said repeatedly that “We are not implementing blue mate. We have no plans to implement blue mage. Blue mage would be too difficult to balance properly in the game’s system we have and it wouldn’t feel at all like a blue mage.” And various other quotes like that where Naomi Yoshida literally told you that blue mage “as an actual job” was never going to happen.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

And what will you do when you inevitably get all 49 skills and beat all levels of the carnival?

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The same thing I do when I beat the current batch of content, get all the jobs I played geared up, Make whatever new housing item I want, finish my 99totem/mount farm. Take a break and play another game or do something else. I still keep my sub when Im playing Monster Hunter or Red Dead Redemption. It's not like I have to play this game 24/7. You act as if content drought/content wall is something that will be exclusive to Blue mage.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Trying to equate 2 year old content to relevant 2 month old content is criminally wrong and biased at best.

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Coils of Bahamut is still the best endgame raid content that was made in this game. This is straight up facts B. In fact 2.0 content was so good they brought them back and updated them for 4.0, Ultimate Bahamut and Ultima Weapon Ultimate

Also its amusing how people keep talking about BLU as if it is strictly a solo class, as if you won't be able to join up pre-made parties and do other instanced stuff.

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

You mean people who apparently didn’t read various interviews where it had been said repeatedly that “We are not implementing blue mate. We have no plans to implement blue mage. Blue mage would be too difficult to balance properly in the game’s system we have and it wouldn’t feel at all like a blue mage.” And various other quotes like that where Naomi Yoshida literally told you that blue mage “as an actual job” was never going to happen.

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Then I would have rather it not be implemented personally, there's nothing really to what you're saying besides "They weren't even going to add it to the game you should be happy they put it in" which I don't really know how to respond to? I would have either liked them to find a compromise like they did with RDM or not add it in, and that's not me being selfish that's me saying "I feel like putting resources elsewhere would be better".

Naomi.

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You act as if content drought/content wall is something that will be exclusive to Blue mage.

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It is though, what other class has a defined content ceiling locked at level 50 dungeons only? if you're fine hopping on and off and doing other things that's fine, I'm not arguing against that, my issue is that a Job should not inherently be more restricted than other jobs.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

It is though, what other class has a defined content ceiling locked at level 50 dungeons only? if you're fine hopping on and off and doing other things that's fine, I'm not arguing against that, my issue is that a Job should not inherently be more restricted than other jobs.

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I can't tell if you're making this comment to be intentionally misleading. I can't think that you would be unaware of the statements that the class would eventually be on the same level as other classes. Your statements make it seem like this class would be locked at 50 forever.

I would also like to remind you that 5.0 will see major battle system changes. I'm sure they wouldn't want us to get too used to certain things when they know things will be changed dramatically in the future. At the same time, they want to field their new experiment and see what tweeks and unforeseen variables they will have to take into consideration once 5.0 drops. Even though we're getting this job next patch, I still consider this to be a 5.0 job.

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Originally Posted by AC9Breaker

Even though we're getting this job next patch, I still consider this to be a 5.0 job.

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If you think this will become a regular max-level job in or after 5.0, that is never going to happen. They wouldn't go out of their way to stir all this up and designate BLU as a "Limited Job" just to back out in six months.

BLU is a side quest. Or you can do obsolete content with friends. That's it. That's all it will ever be. There's NO indication of anything else.

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Originally Posted by GrenGarm

If you think this will become a regular max-level job in or after 5.0, that is never going to happen. They wouldn't go out of their way to stir all this up and designate BLU as a "Limited Job" just to back out in six months.

BLU is a side quest. Or you can do obsolete content with friends. That's it. That's all it will ever be. There's NO indication of anything else.

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It will never be allowed to use DF, but that doesn't mean you'll be limited to obsolete content, unless you consider anything not listed in Raid Finder obsolete.
And yeah, you'll be able to run stuff with friends.

What, don't you have friends?

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Originally Posted by GrenGarm

If you think this will become a regular max-level job in or after 5.0, that is never going to happen. They wouldn't go out of their way to stir all this up and designate BLU as a "Limited Job" just to back out in six months.

BLU is a side quest. Or you can do obsolete content with friends. That's it. That's all it will ever be. There's NO indication of anything else.

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I don't understand the point you're trying to make here?
I said Blue Mage is a 5.0 job, so its design choices are strictly for 5.0 in mind. With that said, once 5.0 is here we will eventually see them raise the level cap of the class ergo, more availability in the instances they can take on.

This is information that was released during the announcement. This is not speculation. They have said the level cap will increase. Facts. No where did I claim or say this job would become part of the meta role jobs.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Then I would have rather it not be implemented personally, there's nothing really to what you're saying besides "They weren't even going to add it to the game you should be happy they put it in" which I don't really know how to respond to? I would have either liked them to find a compromise like they did with RDM or not add it in, and that's not me being selfish that's me saying "I feel like putting resources elsewhere would be better".

Naomi.

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It is though, what other class has a defined content ceiling locked at level 50 dungeons only? if you're fine hopping on and off and doing other things that's fine, I'm not arguing against that, my issue is that a Job should not inherently be more restricted than other jobs.

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I can thoroughly enjoy all these people who point out that RDM got compromised... From what FFXI? the core identity of the job is still intact. Jack of all trades master of none, Heals, rez, support, decent damage for it's utility.. so tell me where exactly was the compromise? I mean sure it's probably different from XI but as has been stated all over these forums. FFXIV is not XI and will never be so stop using that as a basis for arguments, and while you can't come up with a good counter point to my first point allow me to respond to you.

Your personal feelings should not and do not hold decision making power over this dev team, none of ours do. Because they don't make this game with our opinions. They make this game as they see fit and try to give us what we ask for along the way. Which I've already detailed in some forum thread or another maybe even this one. They are actually doing a lot of what we asked for in BLU it's just that people are so in an uproar over "HOWD THEY DO THIS TO BLU MAGE?! RE RE RE!!" to actually see the potential for addressing a number of our bigger concerns with a singular system and the expense of on job. If this was any other job, or even an original job in this system and not blue mage half of you would not even be this upset. You have no idea how much resources they put into this or what their plans are for it so throwing up or even hinting at "it's a waste of resources." isn't even an argument either not yet at least because you haven't even touched the system yet to be able to provide actual feedback. Just emotional backlash.

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Originally Posted by AC9Breaker

I don't understand the point you're trying to make here?
I said Blue Mage is a 5.0 job, so its design choices are strictly for 5.0 in mind. With that said, once 5.0 is here we will eventually see them raise the level cap of the class ergo, more availability in the instances they can take on.

This is information that was released during the announcement. This is not speculation. They have said the level cap will increase. Facts. No where did I claim or say this job would become part of the meta role jobs.

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You said the job would "eventually be on the same level as other classes," meaning it will be the same as all the other jobs. That is not true and that is what I was responding to. If you mean literally it can level up to the same level (70/80), then you should have said that instead. This is also not true. We don't know for sure that BLU will ever be allowed to be max level with other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

You have no idea how much resources they put into this or what their plans are for it so throwing up or even hinting at "it's a waste of resources." isn't even an argument either not yet at least because you haven't even touched the system yet to be able to provide actual feedback. Just emotional backlash.

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You keep making this point. The fact is, we know they put some resources into BLU. Possibly quite a lot. But the amount doesn't matter. For me and many other players, ANY resources that they put into this incredibly awkward design are a waste. We don't need to play the job to decide that, because this is not a job. This is a limited job. We hate the limited part. End of story.

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Originally Posted by GrenGarm

You said the job would "eventually be on the same level as other classes," meaning it will be the same as all the other jobs. That is not true and that is what I was responding to. If you mean literally it can level up to the same level (70/80), then you should have said that instead. This is also not true. We don't know for sure that BLU will ever be allowed to be max level with other jobs.

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I would figure context clues would help you in coming to that conclusion yourself since I followed my, "eventually be on the same level as other classes", with " Your statements make it seem like this class would be locked at 50 forever." I am explicitly talking about levels here. Unless the number 50 somehow means something else to you. I digress, what I would postulate to you is maybe the unsound assumption in which you speculate that the class will never be the same max levels as other classes. That's about as tantamount as performing a science experiment without consideration of any other variables or factors and using only one test case to prove your hypothesis.(this is bad science btw) In this case the test case is the initial level cap of 50. This is the only reason I can assume why you would entertain the idea of this class never reaching the same level.

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Originally Posted by GrenGarm

You keep making this point. The fact is, we know they put some resources into BLU. Possibly quite a lot. But the amount doesn't matter. For me and many other players, ANY resources that they put into this incredibly awkward design are a waste. We don't need to play the job to decide that, because this is not a job. This is a limited job. We hate the limited part. End of story.

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I would again like to point out the faulty logic. There is still so much about 5.0 that is unknown. One thing in particular is there are obvious signs of major combat mechanic changes. Am I suggesting that BLU will play a part in the the 3 role Meta? No. I am saying there is so much being done that for you to judge what the end product will be before it has even been delivered is the type of shortsighted view that is usually reserved in spoiled children who throw a tantrum when they don't get exactly what they want. Your jump to a conclusion on this class is tantamount to how the civilizations of the past would blame any natural disaster or plague to anger from imaginary gods. "The earth is shaking. Some magical being must be doing this" "This class is different. It must be crap"

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Originally Posted by AC9Breaker

"This class is different. It must be crap"[/I]

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Nice strawman you built yourself there.

"Different" would be fine. This is not a different job. This is not a job.

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Originally Posted by GrenGarm

Nice strawman you built yourself there.

"Different" would be fine. This is not a different job. This is not a job.

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I concede that my wording in that comment to be rather facetious. "This class isn't what I wanted. It must suck." I think this is more appropriate when paired with the analogy I made in my previous post and captures the sentiment of those in an uproar to this class.

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Originally Posted by AC9Breaker

I concede that my wording in that comment to be rather facetious. "This class isn't what I wanted. It must suck." I think this is more appropriate when paired with the analogy I made in my previous post and captures the sentiment of those in an uproar to this class.

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But it's not a class.

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Originally Posted by AC9Breaker

I concede that my wording in that comment to be rather facetious. "This class isn't what I wanted. It must suck." I think this is more appropriate when paired with the analogy I made in my previous post and captures the sentiment of those in an uproar to this class.

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It is by definition not a class or a job however, what you don't seem to understand is that it's not about BLU not being different or BLU not being good. BLU is inherently gimped from the start and gated off (Not just not allowed to duty finder for) but GATED off from content that EVERY OTHER JOB CAN DO, and this is the primary issue with it, it is in every sense of the word, not a job but content.

Why are we now designating jobs as content and gating them off from the rest of the game? this is wrong, Job's are the main way that you interact with story quest, dungeons, raids, alliance raids, hunts, questing. They are the vehicle by which we are able to actually play this game, and this includes disciples of hand and land.

I do not believe that ANY job should be sacrificed ONLY to be content.

"How do you know it'll always be limited"

They've stated that BLU is NOT balanced for raids and they would NOT want it in current content as it would make them not fun. This isn't speculation, this is out of Yoshi P's mouth from the keynote.

"Why is this a problem? when they'll be raising the level cap"

Because of the before said reasons, even if they'll be raising the level cap, they SPECIFICALLY said that they would raise it leading up to 5.0 and "throughout" the 5.0 patches, they never stated that it would be raised to level cap, not even once.

This isn't about it just not being what we wanted, this is about it just not being a job, at all or even NEW content, it has been described and even compared to atma farming. They've advertised that a glut of the enjoyment from the job is how long it will take to learn skills AND the carnival.

At least Eureka was new content, at least logos actions and the magi board were attempts to try something new and different. BLU is just eureka outside of Eureka with no benefits to the rest of the game it is literally gated away from everything else and from what we know in no way benefits or encourages anyone that plays current content(At least 5 or 6 months old).

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Your personal feelings should not and do not hold decision making power over this dev team, none of ours do. Because they don't make this game with our opinions. They make this game as they see fit and try to give us what we ask for along the way. Which I've already detailed in some forum thread or another maybe even this one. They are actually doing a lot of what we asked for in BLU it's just that people are so in an uproar over "HOWD THEY DO THIS TO BLU MAGE?! RE RE RE!!" to actually see the potential for addressing a number of our bigger concerns with a singular system and the expense of on job. If this was any other job, or even an original job in this system and not blue mage half of you would not even be this upset. You have no idea how much resources they put into this or what their plans are for it so throwing up or even hinting at "it's a waste of resources." isn't even an argument either not yet at least because you haven't even touched the system yet to be able to provide actual feedback. Just emotional backlash.

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You're joking right? so you're saying that 1.0 should have just, continued as it was? Diadem should not have been fixed and was perfect, our opinions as players don't matter and we should just shut up and pay out monthly sub? seriously? that's what you honestly think?

People wanted a fully implemented BLU that was true to or at least held the same spirit as BLU. that we could play in all content equally the same as other jobs.

What we got

-Gated out of 80% of content

-Level capped to obsolete dungeons and raids

-RNG based skill learning (Which is NOTHING like skill learning in other games)

-An instance just for BLU that is a solo experience only

THESE are what I am providing feedback to, this information that we have been given which is meant to be "Staying true to Blue mage". A lot of the reasons for these weren't even that they took feedback and wanted to give us a unique experience, it simply came down to "We couldn't balance it, so we did this"

Yes, you're absolutely right if this wasn't blue mage, if this wasn't a job people wanted to play, wanted to main, wanted to use as an actual job to go through story quest and to sit down and learn. Yes no one would be upset, nobody but they used a well loved and long asked for job and butchered it to fit the content quota until shadow bringers drops.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

-Gated out of 80% of content

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Actually, I've done the math, and we're only actually gated out of 17.3% of content.
Source: same as yours, my ass.

The level cap is raising, and there's no reason to believe we won't be able to run all content at some point, with the only exceptions being current and savage raids, and DF, which in itself isn't content, just a match-making system.

No one has a foot in this race or some other analogy until the job is actually released. People can comment all they want on how they would have wanted it implemented, in the end it is up to SE and NONE OF US know how it will actually play out yet.
Some of you are flaming each other for no real reasons, lol
Will it eventually be able to run content on par with the other jobs? Well maybe not but perhaps it will, just because they stated limited job i am sure they will cave in if enough complaints exist, just do not expect it anytime soon, perhaps 6.0 or later?
Unless someone works directly for SE none know anything, myself included it is pure speculation and alot of clueless people...

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

It is by definition not a class or a job however, what you don't seem to understand is that it's not about BLU not being different or BLU not being good.

Why are we now designating jobs as content and gating them off from the rest of the game?

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I'm sorry. I was not aware that classes where defined by Webster's dictionary. At the same time I am unable to see the logical progression of thought in your post. You claim that classes aren't content, but what about all the backstory, lore, and everything else that comes with classes? Weapon designs, armor designs, is that not content? I'm sure a majority of people here would agree that DRK's job questline has some of the beast written stuff.
Yes, the classes we choose are the vehicle we use to interact with the environment. But I would think you would agree that the type of vehicle you have matters. Why? It is because of the content associated with that class. All of that content ultimately forms the identity of this class. The identity of blue mage is meant to be even more unique to all the other classes we've played before.
Is a collection of content not content? Does (1 + 2) == (9 / 3)?

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They've stated that BLU is NOT balanced for raids and they would NOT want it in current content as it would make them not fun. This isn't speculation, this is out of Yoshi P's mouth from the keynote.

"Why is this a problem? when they'll be raising the level cap"

Because of the before said reasons, even if they'll be raising the level cap, they SPECIFICALLY said that they would raise it leading up to 5.0 and "throughout" the 5.0 patches, they never stated that it would be raised to level cap, not even once.

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Another jump to conclusions and a bit of miscommunication as well here, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because I think "current content" is the key term. As of this time being, with our current relevant patch being 4.45 I would like to use Trials as an example for this following point. Do you consider Susano or Lakshmi current content? If not, where do we draw the line on current content? Tsukuyomi? Why not Include Suzaku? I think the Suzaku one is obvious because its the trial fight for the 4.4 patch cycle. Its also segregated from the other trials by being in the raid finder tab instead of duty finder. If you ask me, locking blue mage out from doing anything in the raid finder tab which is generally current content is an easy way to define what current content is. But of course what might seem obvious to us maybe isn't so obvious to them. Also, my point here is merely speculation. How the dev team decides to approach this definition of current content I think is something they should carefully consider.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

You're joking right? so you're saying that 1.0 should have just, continued as it was? Diadem should not have been fixed and was perfect, our opinions as players don't matter and we should just shut up and pay out monthly sub? seriously? that's what you honestly think?

People wanted a fully implemented BLU that was true to or at least held the same spirit as BLU.

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I think there should be a clear distinction here between vocal minority and general consensus. 1.0 Was bad. This is a general consensus. The blue mage we are being given for FFXIV is terrible. This is an opinion from the vocal minority in this community who have yet to gain first hand experience with it. Of course it is a calculated risk because those minorities still matter. Because those minorities are more then likely the same people who helped keep 1.0 afloat and kept their subscriptions. We just have to hope that the Dev team is good at math, haha.

Also, this may be too anecdotal but as someone who's worked a lot of customer service I've come to the belief that 9 times out of 10 the customer doesn't even know what they want and you can usually make the decision for them. More then likely they will be happy with the decision you've helped them reach.

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Originally Posted by AC9Breaker

Where do we draw the line on current content?

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This is completely irrelevant. People who are upset about BLU don't care where that line is drawn. They want to access ALL content like EVERY OTHER JOB. It's very simple. Give us a stripped-down "unfaithful" version of BLU. We don't care. We just want to raid and level and use the DF like every other job.

And if BLU is so amazing that it can't EVER be that in FF14 for some asinine reason, then DON'T PUT IT IN AN MMO. Put it in FF17.

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Originally Posted by GrenGarm

This is completely irrelevant. People who are upset about BLU don't care where that line is drawn. They want to access ALL content like EVERY OTHER JOB. It's very simple. Give us a stripped-down "unfaithful" version of BLU. We don't care. We just want to raid and level and use the DF like every other job.

And if BLU is so amazing that it can't EVER be that in FF14 for some asinine reason, then DON'T PUT IT IN AN MMO. Put it in FF17.

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Actually it is an important distinction. No job has access to all content. Not one. You can't take a blacksmith into a raid, so is it not a real job? None of the disciple of hand or land jobs can fit into the meta. None of them are viable to clear content with? So are they just side content too? What about the people who main crafters and gatherers? Who garner the most enjoyment out of this game when they are crafting to help out other people or making gil off the marketboard? Who are you to judge these jobs as not real jobs? If people play it and decide to main it because their main source of enjoyment of the game comes from these kinds of activities does that not mean that those are the jobs and content that matters most to them and mean to them they are real jobs? Why is your definition the only acceptable definition of a "real job"? Like it or not BLU is just as much a real job as any other job in this game. It's just as much a real job as the disciples of hand or land are real jobs. It's a real job because there are people that will gravitate to that experience and that will play blue mage as much as they possibly can because they enjoy this experience, and that's who it's built for. Not you apparently. Yea, it sucks but it is what it is, and before this whole give us a stripped down version thing really takes off let me present a question...

So did summoner get a more faithful version of what it's supposed to be? No, Smn became a DoT mage and the community shredded them apart for it because it wasn't a traditional SMN. So if SMNs can't even get their Egi-glamour system as promised, or can't get a more faithful version of what it truly is. I think it's asinine for people to demand a new version of BLU before you even try the first. You can tell me all you like that you don't need to play it you already know how this is going to go. That's fine. You still haven't played it so you have no experience so you have no first hand knowledge of where it's going to go to provide logical and useful feedback, but you all will reject that little kernel of truth as well so.

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Originally Posted by GrenGarm

This is completely irrelevant. People who are upset about BLU don't care where that line is drawn. They want to access ALL content like EVERY OTHER JOB. It's very simple. Give us a stripped-down "unfaithful" version of BLU. We don't care. We just want to raid and level and use the DF like every other job.

And if BLU is so amazing that it can't EVER be that in FF14 for some asinine reason, then DON'T PUT IT IN AN MMO. Put it in FF17.

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I have to disagree with you on this point because I think this point [current content definition] will be extremely crucial in the reception of Blue Mage. I think it's well known information that only a small population of our community do the savage raid end game content. Even smaller are the people who actually complete it. The whole endgame hardcore meta scene is already very opinionated on what jobs work best and what tactics should be used. It's why classes like DRK,MCH, and WHM get so much flak thrown on them. Even though Dark Knight was part of the first ever clear of Ultima Weapon Ultimate, it still gets looked down on and disrespected by the community. Some of these opinions I think are pretty spot on and well deserved. But that doesn't mean the classes aren't viable. Regardless, it is very rare to see a MCH in the endgame raid scene because the community will stick to whats known to be best and works best. Why would I bring a MCH when I can do overall 30% more dps as a BRD with less effort? These are the types of opinion and attitudes that keep the majority from showing interest in the endgame. That being said, it should be clear to see why the majority would be not too bothered by the fact that they can't do Savage Raid Finder content with Blue Mage.

I think Darkpaw also brought up some good points. Your personal definition of a class is, access to duties and instances. I think Darkpaw thoroughly also points out how much of an acute definition this is. Blue Mage is something new and I'm pretty sure a template for something similar. Beastmaster, perhaps? But here's food for thought, now what if you wanted to do the Masked Carnival as a Warrior, or Red Mage, or Astro or whatever? Are these classes no longer classes now because they don't have access to this instance? This is your logic applied to the other classes.