Blue Mage might actually be a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

NIN/DRK/AST/MCH/RDM/SAM cannot be used for all the MSQ, they must be useless.

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You must feel very clever. They can be used from the point they are unlocked up until the end of MSQ. BLU is unlocked after The Ultimate Weapon and can only be used up to Before the Dawn.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

You must feel very clever. They can be used from the point they are unlocked up until the end of MSQ. BLU is unlocked after The Ultimate Weapon and can only be used up to Before the Dawn.

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Yes, but once the level cap is raised, you can keep doing the MSQ. You are thinking in the now.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Yes, but once the level cap is raised, you can keep doing the MSQ. You are thinking in the now.

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Yeah, being able to do the MSQ month if not years after its release is so much fun until you it the level cap and you can't do the new xpac MSQ.

They have stated they will up the level cap later, they never once said it will be on par with the current xpac while keep saying it won't find a seat in a party for current content. I won't risk myself hopping it will be capped at lv 80 before 6.0 is released.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

We can't use it. This is nothing.

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Stuff like this is a slap in the face for those who are excited to play this version of BLU.

It might not appeal to everyone, but theres no need for this arrogant attitude that 'if I cant enjoy it no one should'.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Stuff like this is a slap in the face for those who are excited to play this version of BLU.

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And this version of BLU is slap in the face for people who expected to be able to main BLU, or take it into raids, or do their weekly/daily roulettes with it.

#slapsforeveryone

It won't be. SE's experiments are consistently bad with almost no exceptions and it's taking dev time away from the things they actually do well.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

And this version of BLU is slap in the face for people who expected to be able to main BLU, or take it into raids, or do their weekly/daily roulettes with it.

#slapsforeveryone

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It is a slap on the face for those who like raid content and the limited trinity system.
For those who like the variety off spells effects a Blue Mage can have (like the old games) it is not.

Myself i was upset when they revealed it was a different approach kind of job with a different end game content. I'm such a big fan of Blue Mages in FF games, i also wanted Blue in raids. but now i understand that, because of the trinity system ffxiv have, it is not possible 'cause the nature of blue itself. So many iconic suport spells, a true jack of all trades that heals, debuff, protect and kills exploiting the weakness of the monsters.

Problem is, with trinity system ffxiv have, Blue Mage just can't fill any role

It cant be a pure dps
It cant be a pure Healer
It cant be a pure tanker
But it can be all of those at the same time.

Let us give a chance and test when 4.5 arrive then we give feedback if the class is fun or not (I bet it is with all those 50+ spells and carnival)

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I’m surprised that with so many complaining about the stale endgame, the linear progression grind, and no reasons to replay old content or play in the open world, that there’s so much vitriol around Blue Mage.
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The fact that SE indeed does need to walk away from the 1 raid, 1 8 man duty and a few dungeons every expansion doesn't imply that every system is fine to replace what we currently have. If something is stale, that doesn't mean that any sort of replacement is fine.

Especially when the proposed BLU is mostly designed that way because it is obviously cheaper to design classes you don't have to balance because they cannot be used in relevant content. It also convey a dangerous message for the whole industry : that nowadays is it fine to design and release half designed jobs because anyways the whole point if for players to buy microtransactions and to hell with the actual game design.

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Problem is, with trinity system ffxiv have, Blue Mage just can't fill any role

It cant be a pure dps
It cant be a pure Healer
It cant be a pure tanker
But it can be all of those at the same time.

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Just make a build system like in FFXI, where you could pick spells and choose which role you want to fill.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Show me the person who doesn't want the "Masked Carnival". You'll be hard-pressed to find them. That is because most people don't mind it, if they don't actually share your enthusiasm for it. Like you said, it's different, it's fresh, and it's loyal to the job in certain ways.
But this is an MMO. When people ask for jobs in this sort of game, they want to play it in the main content. They want to be able to raid with it if that's what they fancy, they want to be able to run dungeons with it, they want to be able to run MSQ with it. They want to main it.
I personally want to walk up to Zenos with Hien and the Scions at my back and imagine their reactions when my next move is Bad Breath. It doesn't seem like I'll be able to do that.

As others can say better than I, XIV is no stranger to tweaking jobs so it fits in with its system, even at costs to their lore. Having a version of BLU that will be usable outside of its personal grind and Masked Carnival is far from being mutually exclusive with it being this new game-mode.
Yes, we need more innovation. Yes, we need freshness. But to introduce a job, one that was so highly requested, and to limit it to this is... meh.

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Youre getting your MMO content. Two new jobs, new areas, new race, new MSQ, new everything we can normally expect. This one facet not being integral to End Game Prog is no where near not getting any MMO main content. And to be very clear, this is still connected to Multiplayer Play. Youre not playing a game within a game where you have 0 interaction with the game. You just wont be able to do certain aspects, most of it limited to End Game Prog or Duty Finder. But youll still hvae access to much of the game, even as BLU. So the complaint boils down to simply the class not being in end game prog. Thats the contention point. Cause it will have the monster skill system. Youll still be able to do dungeons and things. Youre still part of hte MMO crowd. So what is it thats exactly being lost here.

End Game Prog.

And thats fine. Not everything in teh game has to be in service of that. This BLU thing will be fine. People will play it, enjoy it, and itll be something people can do when things slow down for end game prog. Does it suck for a small group of people who wanted BLM in Raid? Sure. Is it this terrible terrible decision that foreshadows the end times? Probably not.

Oh and one other thing:

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

And this version of BLU is slap in the face for people who expected to be able to main BLU, or take it into raids, or do their weekly/daily roulettes with it.

#slapsforeveryone

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This screams of entitlement. Just saying. Theyre not slapping you in the face because ONE thing in the game isnt being implemented the way you want. Its not a slap for everyone. Its SE trying to do two things at once. They want to give the players BLU as true to specs as possible. Doing so means they know it cant be balanced correctly into end game without it being OP (and therefore a must take), or without greatly dumbing it down. The second thing they want to do is give us stuff to do in game that ISNT end game prog. Particularly being able to do stuff during slow times in the game.

And all the knee jerk outrage boils down to people not seeing exactly what SE is trying to give people. Theyre trying to give you more stuff tod o that isnt end game prog. And people are throwing it back in their face and throwing a bit of a tantrum because "MUH BLUE MAGE ISNT IN END GAME RAID! DEVS ARE SO STUPID AND ARE SPITTING ON US! F THIS GAME! UNSUBBED!"

Like holy hell. If you dont like it, thats OK. But it comes off as entitled to get so upset about something that isnt even in the game yet. I am willing to hazard that almost everyone whos complaining hard about he whole BLU thing will ultimately play it and say "Yeah, it was aiite" (if not fun).

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Youll still be able to do dungeons and things.

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Let's say you 36 BLU and want to run a dungeon for exp. Your highest available is Cutter's Cry. Your only way to run that dungeon is to find 3 other people willing to run it. Since you are not in a roulette, if your friend the 64 DRK goes, they will get next to nothing for their time, other than the feel goods of helping. Which that's all well and fine, sure. But no in game incentive - since the level is so far below them it would be adding a teaspoon of water to a bowl full. There are people out there who would be willing yes, but if you thought queueing as a dps took forever, this will be potentially much, much worse. Same for trials, but instead of 3 people, there are 7. At least with trials there is some interest - people going for ponies and crafting items - something. As for LotA? Good luck if it's even at all possible.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Not everything in teh game has to be in service of that. This BLM thing will be fine. People will play it, enjoy it, and itll be something people can do when things slow down for end game prog. Does it suck for a small group of people who wanted BLM in Raid? Sure.

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I know you meant Blue Mage, but having used the Black Mage acronymn, just imagine - imagine if black mage was just being released now and hadn't been in game this whole time..... and you couldn't go into roulettes or current content with it. Instead you had to scour Eorzea for runes for your spells that you could then use to complete in the Thaumaturgical Workshop of Alchemy and Science. Use those runes to learn more runes, unlocking a series of mini game puzzles with a leaderboard system.

That concept may sound neat to someone - and the content in itself might be - but that doesn't change the disappointment for all those nukers out there who had their heart set on Black Mage being their go to job because that's the job they enjoyed the most in previous games. Even if it's not quite right, it's still their go to.

It's not all about how people can't end game raid - they can't play the parts of the game the vast majority of people are playing at.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Oh and one other thing:

This screams of entitlement. Just saying. Theyre not slapping you in the face because ONE thing in the game isnt being implemented the way you want. Its not a slap for everyone. Its SE trying to do two things at once. They want to give the players BLU as true to specs as possible. Doing so means they know it cant be balanced correctly into end game without it being OP (and therefore a must take), or without greatly dumbing it down. The second thing they want to do is give us stuff to do in game that ISNT end game prog. Particularly being able to do stuff during slow times in the game.

And all the knee jerk outrage boils down to people not seeing exactly what SE is trying to give people. Theyre trying to give you more stuff tod o that isnt end game prog. And people are throwing it back in their face and throwing a bit of a tantrum because "MUH BLUE MAGE ISNT IN END GAME RAID! DEVS ARE SO STUPID AND ARE SPITTING ON US! F THIS GAME! UNSUBBED!"

Like holy hell. If you dont like it, thats OK. But it comes off as entitled to get so upset about something that isnt even in the game yet. I am willing to hazard that almost everyone whos complaining hard about he whole BLU thing will ultimately play it and say "Yeah, it was aiite" (if not fun).

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First, do you read context?

Second. IDGAF about Blue Mage personally. I'm not a caster main, nor do I have a caster side-job leveled. I've never been a particular fan of Blue Mage in other games, and in fact my favorite version of Blue Mage was the Enemy Skill materia in FF7. I've always found them to be gimmicky and underpowered (never a real fan of RDM for the same reason, though it's less gimmicky and usually just underpowered). So I probably wouldn't level it either way. The only entitlement I'll claim is that we should have been given a job that can participate in all content.

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Originally Posted by JBee

Let's say you 36 BLU and want to run a dungeon for exp. Your highest available is Cutter's Cry. Your only way to run that dungeon is to find 3 other people willing to run it. Since you are not in a roulette, if your friend the 64 DRK goes, they will get next to nothing for their time, other than the feel goods of helping. Which that's all well and fine, sure. But no in game incentive - since the level is so far below them it would be adding a teaspoon of water to a bowl full. There are people out there who would be willing yes, but if you thought queueing as a dps took forever, this will be potentially much, much worse. Same for trials, but instead of 3 people, there are 7. At least with trials there is some interest - people going for ponies and crafting items - something. As for LotA? Good luck if it's even at all possible.

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Let me reword this:

Let's say you 36 RDM and want to run a dungeon for exp. Your highest available is Cutter's Cry. Your best bet to run that dungeon is to find 3 other people willing to run it, since you do not want to use roulette and get stuck in a lower lvl dungeon like Sastasha. If your friend the 64 DRK goes, they will get next to nothing for their time, other than the feel goods of helping. Which that's all well and fine, sure. But no in game incentive - since the level is so far below them it would be adding a teaspoon of water to a bowl full. There are people out there who would be willing yes, but if you thought queuing as a dps took forever, this will be potentially much, much worse. Same for trials, but instead of 3 people, there are 7. At least with trials there is some interest - people going for ponies and crafting items - something. As for LotA? Good luck if it's even at all possible.

This, btw, is build around speculation. Given that they do not think the game can be balanced in regards to BLU, it would suggest the class is actually a lot stronger and built more in line for solo content. Meaning, you will have access to skills and abilities from Monsters that would enable you to solo dungeons. I would imagine that soloing everything as BLU would be harder to do, but it is not impossible. There is also the speculation that the only means of gaining exp effectively will be dungeons. We do not know if this will be the case or not. Again, this is an issue of seeing how it operates on implementation.

Also, this actually might encourage more people to build stronger FCs and socialization for the simple fact that running content with FC members is easier to manage than pugging things on PF, or on DF. But then again, as I said, I imagine that the class is designed to solo the game if you find the appropriate monster skills and are a good player yourself.

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Originally Posted by JBee

I know you meant Blue Mage, but having used the Black Mage acronymn, just imagine - imagine if black mage was just being released now and hadn't been in game this whole time..... and you couldn't go into roulettes or current content with it. Instead you had to scour Eorzea for runes for your spells that you could then use to complete in the Thaumaturgical Workshop of Alchemy and Science. Use those runes to learn more runes, unlocking a series of mini game puzzles with a leaderboard system.

That concept may sound neat to someone - and the content in itself might be - but that doesn't change the disappointment for all those nukers out there who had their heart set on Black Mage being their go to job because that's the job they enjoyed the most in previous games. Even if it's not quite right, it's still their go to.

It's not all about how people can't end game raid - they can't play the parts of the game the vast majority of people are playing at.

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No, the issue ultimately with your analogy is that the game would be lacking a "Nuker" and implementing a solo class system that was a Nuker would be silly. It would also be silly if they didnt have a heavy healer like WHM and implemented one as a solo class.

The trouble with BLU is that the uniqueness of its concept means that implementing it effectively would either mean dumbing down the concept (and making it compete design wise with RDM, SMN, and BLM), or keeping it as is and making it OP and a must pick for any end game content. The way I see it, if they did dumb it down, the criticism wouldve been "Yeah, this is a watered down version of the class I wanted. It's boring to play and not all that different from 'x'". So SE decided to keep it truer to its concept, while giving us stuff to do that isnt end game prog.

I actually think that is probably the smarter choice. But we'll have to see how it actually works in practice. If it sucks, Im sure there will be changes. Wont be ideal. But its not the end of the world. If its good, then theres no need to complain.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

First, do you read context?

Second. IDGAF about Blue Mage personally.

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You apparently do if youre saying its a slap in the face.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I'm not a caster main, nor do I have a caster side-job leveled. I've never been a particular fan of Blue Mage in other games, and in fact my favorite version of Blue Mage was the Enemy Skill materia in FF7. I've always found them to be gimmicky and underpowered (never a real fan of RDM for the same reason, though it's less gimmicky and usually just underpowered). So I probably wouldn't level it either way. The only entitlement I'll claim is that we should have been given a job that can participate in all content.

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Your last sentinent is the problem. You are arguing that all classes must be able to participate in all content.

But as you should know, you cant take a Fisherman to raid. Or any of the Crafters. Or Gatherers.

So not every class can participate in all the content.

And that is fine. Not everything needs to be able to go to Raid to be worthwhile and fun for players. And I specify Raid because OF the content, thats the content that receives the biggest direct impact from the system they proposed. Youll have access to dungeons, Trials, and (as far as I can tell) the bigger raids. It wont be available immediately, but you will have access to them eventually. So what content are you locked out of? End game Prog. Which is what a lot of people immediately complained about.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Just make a build system like in FFXI, where you could pick spells and choose which role you want to fill.

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But that is what Blue Mage never was in any of FF past titles, Blue is that job that do (may i say almost?) all things at the same time.

It heals great amounts of HP with white wind, it protects everyone with Migthy Guard (and ohgod that thing is OP!) and buff/debuffs/attack with very niche (and Powerful) spells.

You see, Blue do all those things in just one battle. Losing the capacity to do this is saying goobye to a Blue Mage experience and Yoshida said he wanted the players to feel this in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by MOthe

But that is what Blue Mage never was in any of FF past titles, Blue is that job that do (may i say almost?) all things at the same time.

It heals great amounts of HP with white wind, it protects everyone with Migthy Guard (and ohgod that thing is OP!) and buff/debuffs/attack with very niche (and Powerful) spells.

You see, Blue do all those things in just one battle. Losing the capacity to do this is saying goobye to a Blue Mage experience and Yoshida said he wanted the players to feel this in FFXIV.

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You can say the same things about SMN and RDM, both in older games are very similar to BLU in regards to what they can do, a SMN could heal with a summon, tank with a summon, buff with a summon etc, RDM could replace both a BLM and WHM since it does both. And yet when they were put into the game they were given set rotations. Were people mad about some of the design choices of them? Sure! But they're still fully playable jobs that can used in ALL content.

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Originally Posted by MOthe

But that is what Blue Mage never was in any of FF past titles, Blue is that job that do (may i say almost?) all things at the same time.

It heals great amounts of HP with white wind, it protects everyone with Migthy Guard (and ohgod that thing is OP!) and buff/debuffs/attack with very niche (and Powerful) spells.

You see, Blue do all those things in just one battle. Losing the capacity to do this is saying goobye to a Blue Mage experience and Yoshida said he wanted the players to feel this in FFXIV.

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In FFVIII quistis didn't only use blue magic (blu magic spells were limit breaks) and no, there are no rules stating that blu should be everything in every fight.

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Originally Posted by Shadowshinra

You can say the same things about SMN and RDM, both in older games are very similar to BLU in regards to what they can do, a SMN could heal with a summon, tank with a summon, buff with a summon etc, RDM could replace both a BLM and WHM since it does both. And yet when they were put into the game they were given set rotations. Were people mad about some of the design choices of them? Sure! But they're still fully playable jobs that can used in ALL content.

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The thing wiht Summoner is it was split into two. You can heal as scholar (just a healer version of Summoner), and you do have a Tank Egi as Summoner. Its limited to the design restrictions of the game at large.

Then you have to also consider BLU. Everyone likes to compare it to RDM or SMN or BLM. But in reality, its concept is far from it.

SMN has you fight with summons (to a limited extent), it does this. It uses Dots and Nukes to damage. BLM is just a nuker/sustained damage. RDM is a little bit of a hybrid. Primarily DPS with some party utilities (VerCure and VerRaise or whatever theyre called).

They do echo some of the initial design concepts but theyre all hamstringed by balance concerns.

BLU doesnt 'technically' have its own skill set, and is sold on the concept of learning monster skills and being extremely flexible. If they were to try and make it fall in line, what would they need to do? Limit the scope of monster skills and limit the scope of its damage. This would likely result in it competing with BLM, SMN, and RDM from a design stand point. No matter how you dumb its kit down, it will compete with a previous class and end up being a 'reskinned' version of that class. Except rather than learning skills from a npc, its just a monster. As what was pointed out, the ability to custom build your BLU to be anything (Tank, Support, DPS) is flawed in that allowing that concept to be in the game mainstream would inevitably break it. And teh amount of dumbing down it would need would make it essentially a reskinned version of pre-existing classes.

It just wouldnt pan out ultimately.

I'm starting to get the feeling that many people defending the current BLU on know it by it's reputation in 11. The ONLY thing that makes a blue mage different is using monster abilities as spells. They could have very easily done this with the current game and allowed it to be balanced.

A good example would be jobs quests requiring you to go fight a move that uses the ability you are after and said ability being given to you afterwards.

Even the current way you learn abilities as BLU could work. They would just have to change how some of them work when you cast them ( a lore reason for this could be that since the ability is unnatural to our physicalogical body it is weakened or distorted a bit). Every FF is set in a different world and jobs don't always act the same as they do in past games.

Many of us are mad because we see this as something that will be cool for a little bit once we get to Max lvl and get the all the abilites waht more is there to do?

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

The thing wiht Summoner is it was split into two. You can heal as scholar (just a healer version of Summoner), and you do have a Tank Egi as Summoner. Its limited to the design restrictions of the game at large.

Then you have to also consider BLU. Everyone likes to compare it to RDM or SMN or BLM. But in reality, its concept is far from it.

SMN has you fight with summons (to a limited extent), it does this. It uses Dots and Nukes to damage. BLM is just a nuker/sustained damage. RDM is a little bit of a hybrid. Primarily DPS with some party utilities (VerCure and VerRaise or whatever theyre called).

They do echo some of the initial design concepts but theyre all hamstringed by balance concerns.

BLU doesnt 'technically' have its own skill set, and is sold on the concept of learning monster skills and being extremely flexible. If they were to try and make it fall in line, what would they need to do? Limit the scope of monster skills and limit the scope of its damage. This would likely result in it competing with BLM, SMN, and RDM from a design stand point. No matter how you dumb its kit down, it will compete with a previous class and end up being a 'reskinned' version of that class. Except rather than learning skills from a npc, its just a monster. As what was pointed out, the ability to custom build your BLU to be anything (Tank, Support, DPS) is flawed in that allowing that concept to be in the game mainstream would inevitably break it. And teh amount of dumbing down it would need would make it essentially a reskinned version of pre-existing classes.

It just wouldnt pan out ultimately.

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Saying that a job would be too similar to another just feels wrong, if that were the case they should just stop adding jobs altogether since they can only do so many things right?
I'm not saying BLU should be entirely customisable, that misnomer about the job has come from FF11. BLU has and always will be about learning and using monster skills and that's it. And when it comes down to it, out of the vast number of blue magic, how many were actually used by the average player in the FF games (I'm not counting 11 in this) you'd likely find around.. 10-24ish? which so happens to be the around the number of skills you could use in a rotation + buffs.

Sure there is the masked carnival but will it be worth doing more than once? And do we really trust SE to keep updating it in a timely manner (still waiting on more egi glamours)?

Sorry for the many posts and if they seem disconnected doing this at work between things on a phone

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

You apparently do if youre saying its a slap in the face.

Your last sentinent is the problem. You are arguing that all classes must be able to participate in all content.

But as you should know, you cant take a Fisherman to raid. Or any of the Crafters. Or Gatherers.

So not every class can participate in all the content.

And that is fine. Not everything needs to be able to go to Raid to be worthwhile and fun for players. And I specify Raid because OF the content, thats the content that receives the biggest direct impact from the system they proposed. Youll have access to dungeons, Trials, and (as far as I can tell) the bigger raids. It wont be available immediately, but you will have access to them eventually. So what content are you locked out of? End game Prog. Which is what a lot of people immediately complained about.

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No, it was a directly reply. Read again.

Battle classes should be able to participate in battle content. And technically gathering and crafting classes have more involvement in End Game Raiding than Blue Mage is currently scheduled to, so that's just another grasping-at-straws argument to try and defend SE's direction on this. Kinda funny that for every one of you coming to SE's defense for this there's 10 more that are either questioning it or outright saying it's a bad move.

The rest of your comment is speculation. Yea, maybe at some point in the future before this game dies BLU will be able to play with the rest of the kids on the playground. For the meantime, have fun with your solo content.

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Originally Posted by MOthe

But that is what Blue Mage never was in any of FF past titles, Blue is that job that do (may i say almost?) all things at the same time.

It heals great amounts of HP with white wind, it protects everyone with Migthy Guard (and ohgod that thing is OP!) and buff/debuffs/attack with very niche (and Powerful) spells.

You see, Blue do all those things in just one battle. Losing the capacity to do this is saying goobye to a Blue Mage experience and Yoshida said he wanted the players to feel this in FFXIV.

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Non MMO FFs don't have as many learn-able spells. If you think 24 spells is too low to have all at once, take it up with Strago in FFVI. That's the exact amount of spells he can possibly learn in the entire game.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Let's say you 36 RDM and want to run a dungeon for exp. Your highest available is Cutter's Cry. Your best bet to run that dungeon is to find 3 other people willing to run it, since you do not want to use roulette and get stuck in a lower lvl dungeon like Sastasha. If your friend the 64 DRK goes, they will get next to nothing for their time, other than the feel goods of helping. Which that's all well and fine, sure. But no in game incentive - since the level is so far below them it would be adding a teaspoon of water to a bowl full. There are people out there who would be willing yes, but if you thought queuing as a dps took forever, this will be potentially much, much worse. Same for trials, but instead of 3 people, there are 7. At least with trials there is some interest - people going for ponies and crafting items - something. As for LotA? Good luck if it's even at all possible.

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1 - The leveling roulette would still give the bonus, even if you landed in the lower dungeon of Sastasha.

2 - Big difference in that in your example of the 36 RDM asking the DRK to go along.... if the DRK wasn't into it, they could still queue in solo for a group. The BLU cannot. Otherwise, they would just queue for leveling roulette to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Shadowshinra

You can say the same things about SMN and RDM, both in older games are very similar to BLU in regards to what they can do, a SMN could heal with a summon, tank with a summon, buff with a summon etc, RDM could replace both a BLM and WHM since it does both. And yet when they were put into the game they were given set rotations. Were people mad about some of the design choices of them? Sure! But they're still fully playable jobs that can used in ALL content.

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But that is the point. Yoshida knows that the identidy of SMN/RDM were lost due to adequate to trinity system. They don't feel like SMN/RDM. In fact Summoner is just a dot mage with glorified turret and RDM is just a BLM with bursts. Those two jobs lost the capacity to support/heal 'cause of trinity system and balance thing (sure, they got one heal and ress but that is all, the rest is pure DPS). Yoshida just wanted a different approach outside this trinity, a diferent leveling and battle experience for Blue

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Originally Posted by spf1200

Sure there is the masked carnival but will it be worth doing more than once? And do we really trust SE to keep updating it in a timely manner (still waiting on more egi glamours)?

Sorry for the many posts and if they seem disconnected doing this at work between things on a phone

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Time will tell, but people are already bashing without even knowing how masked carival endgame will be. We have to see it first.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I’m surprised that with so many complaining about the stale endgame, the linear progression grind, and no reasons to replay old content or play in the open world, that there’s so much vitriol around Blue Mage.

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You completely got it wrong in your first statement here. People want a reason to replay content that we have been replaying since ARR launched? That's silly.

BLU won't do anything to freshen up endgame content, because it won't be able to participate in said content. There is also nothing non-linear about it, you have your skills you need to learn, you learn them, then you do what? Don't participate in dungeons, raids, trials, etc. This is a full blown mistake by SE, and to say that legitimate criticisms of said mistake is just vitriol is an insult to many players. Many players who wanted to use this job in all battle content but cannot.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

the open world will be full of blue mages hunting down new skills, no blue mage will have the same skill set, and the skills will be so much more interesting than the other jobs that are restricted for balance.

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Quite the assumption here.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I for one am glad it’s not just another caster

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Except it is just another caster. One that can't participate in all battle content.

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Originally Posted by JBee

1 - The leveling roulette would still give the bonus, even if you landed in the lower dungeon of Sastasha.

2 - Big difference in that in your example of the 36 RDM asking the DRK to go along.... if the DRK wasn't into it, they could still queue in solo for a group. The BLU cannot. Otherwise, they would just queue for leveling roulette to begin with.

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Oh, I thought this was about people who are jerks and don't want to help their friends with BLU.

Also, reminder that there's several pre-50 dungeons available with the Squadron.

As someone who is dedicated to the unusual, I don't entirely agree.

I think BLU is a great idea and I don't necessarily bave anything against Limited Jobs. What I am worried about is whether it is really solo-only or not.

If I can use it serously in pre-made parties for old content, I'm fine with it. In fact if it genuinely is able to be a hybrid class, I'm even more happy. But if it plays like a broken OP or downright useless class in party situation, then I have an issue. I don't want a job that is only for screwing around for laughes in unsync and otherwise only works in a minigame. At the same time, I'm not one of those mainstream worshippers who can't see anything anti-meta as worthwhile.

If it is average at all roles but master of none, or if it can play as any role depending on what skills you learn, and can be used in old content seriously as such, then I'm fine with it.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Oh, I thought this was about people who are jerks and don't want to help their friends with BLU.

Also, reminder that there's several pre-50 dungeons available with the Squadron.

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Maybe they want to do something else than spend potentially hours farming Shiva EX? What terrible people they are! Keep in mind, learning abilities is entirely RNG dependent. Therefore, it could take several attempts before you actually learn anything.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Maybe they want to do something else than spend potentially hours farming Shiva EX? What terrible people they are! Keep in mind, learning abilities is entirely RNG dependent. Therefore, it could take several attempts before you actually learn anything.

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I hope they're generous with certain RNG. I mean, you can't exactly use DF for it but imagine a worst case scenario where people don't want to unsync it, or worse - that you can't learn skills unsynced (PLEASE DON'T DO THIS SE). Depending on party, clearing the content alone is enough of a gamble, it'll be worse if you don't get the Shiva skill after that.
Regular mobs can have worse rng, but not impossibly so. I think that would be fair. But extreme bosses? Heaven forbids, needing to learn something from an S rank? Please let those skills be nigh guaranteed, no one wants to burn weeks of trying to spawn Agrippa the Mighty just to get that last skill only to not have RNG favor them.

Is Shiva arrow attack ex exclusive?
but yeah its not gonna be easy to get people to farm those skills with you even all Blue mages and there "OP" kit will probably struggle to beat lvl 50 primals to learn there skills

Like I said on all the other posts like this. I love blue mage and was looking forward to it. But because SE just had to go and screw it up I am avoiding it like the plague it is now and hope SE comes to there senses and abandons ship with this whole limited job idea because it's a bad idea and doesn't fit in an mmo. MMO's are not to be soloed. If I wanted a solo job i would not be playing and paying for an mmo. I would pick up and play something like ffxii not an Mmo.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Maybe they want to do something else than spend potentially hours farming Shiva EX? What terrible people they are! Keep in mind, learning abilities is entirely RNG dependent. Therefore, it could take several attempts before you actually learn anything.

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How's that any different than farming primal dogs in the current Primals? Why is that OK, but helping out a BLU is being looked at as if it's an excruciating task and BLUs are awful people for submitting their friends to that? Why are people arguing from the viewpoint that the DRK isn't playing with his BLU too and will ask the first BLU for help next?

I'm not saying people are forced to help BLUs, btw. But why are people talking as if friends helping out BLUs is some outlandish concept?

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

How's that any different than farming primal dogs in the current Primals? Why is that OK, but helping out a BLU is being looked at as if it's an excruciating task and BLUs are awful people for submitting their friends to that? Why are people arguing from the viewpoint that the DRK isn't playing with his BLU too and will ask the first BLU for help next?

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the difference is with Farming primal mounts(horses since blue mage will be stuck with 50< duties) people want to kill them asap avoiding enrage mechanics,
blue needs to wait for the spell to occur and be hit by it,
the benefit to it is the Primals and raid bosses on a script and actually a guaranteed chance for the enemy to do the move unlike FF11
but getting a group to coordinate like that is slim.
its all good if you have a couple of buds to help you but its still extremely flawed idea.

i wont be surprised when there are primal horse mount farm groups that blue will be locked out.

Everyone keeps talking about friends helping blue mages. What if say you don't have any friends who play this game and let's say you are in an FC with only 2 people. How the heck can you make a perform if you don't have enough people who would be willing to perform with you. Then what. I guess SE doesn't think of those types of people do they. That reminds me of why I don't like mmo's that don't have duty finder. Because I play this game and I don't have any friends that do and am in an FC with only 1 other person. SE needs to realize that not everyone is so lucky to have friends that play this game so not everyone can get a perform party. This also reminds me of others games I like that are mmo's but would never play them again after I realized some content is locked out to me because of no friends that play it and no duty finder in it.

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Originally Posted by Kogasan

No duty-finder

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Yeah this is why it's so weird to me that they call BLU a solo-experience. Because it's not. DF lets you team up with strangers and form a party but it's something you can queue into solo and might never see these people again afterward. They might as well have been NPCs for your experience - heck, dungeons you run with the squadron are exactly that.
But a game mode that is hailed as built for solo play, and is capped at 50, forces you to go into Shiva Extreme. No df, either. That means you need at the very least one other person to carry you through it unsynced, if not 7 other people through PF.
By definition, that's not built for a solo experience.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

blue needs to wait for the spell to occur and be hit by it

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They clarified during the live letter the blu only needs to see the attack and kill the mob for The chance to learn it. The blu does not need to get hit by it.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

the difference is with Farming primal mounts(horses since blue mage will be stuck with 50< duties) people want to kill them asap avoiding enrage mechanics,

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If you're doing it synced, it is completely irrelevant. There's no way to skip most attacks (and those attacks that can be skipped are not something you'll be able to learn anyway, most likely) when synced. If done unsynced, there is no such thing as "fearing enrage" in there. EX primals of lvl50 take ~2:30-4:00 minutes to kill solo by Red Mage. There is literally zero reason why they couldn't wait for an attack. And if someone in a "Blue Mage learning party" doesn't wait for the attack that the Blue Mage wants to learn in the first place...kick and forget about that players existence.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Yeah this is why it's so weird to me that they call BLU a solo-experience. Because it's not. DF lets you team up with strangers and form a party but it's something you can queue into solo and might never see these people again afterward. They might as well have been NPCs for your experience - heck, dungeons you run with the squadron are exactly that.
But a game mode that is hailed as built for solo play, and is capped at 50, forces you to go into Shiva Extreme. No df, either. That means you need at the very least one other person to carry you through it unsynced, if not 7 other people through PF.
By definition, that's not built for a solo experience.

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The solo experience part comes from the side story BLU will be getting, that's where the BLU they're not balancing shines.

Though I suppose a new player trying to get a group together at like 5.3 after the hype has died down would feel like a solo experience lol

Is that why RDM is the only one who managed to reach floor 200 of PotD? Was that RDM's solo play?