People who are mad about the "limited job" didn't actually want Blue Mage.

You could even make it so that the abilities you take when you enter matchmaking are set, but abilities you take when you pre-form can be adjusted. This way no one can complain if they end up with a blue mage in duty finder.

I didn’t exactly want Blue Mage to begin with. But I thought if they added it, it would have been a normal job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malzian

I am not ignoring anything, but if you are willing to provide a source to you're first "quote" from Yoshi-P and the corresponding response I would welcome considering it. I have a difficult time remembering everything Yoshida has said for years ago and the community response is notoriously inconsistent.

---

Here is a thread that talks about Yoshida's statement about Blue Mage from four years ago. I don't think the consensus was "Yeah, makes sense" though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PotatoWafflez

Q: I love the blue mage job that appears in the FINAL FANTASY series. Will the blue mage job ever be implemented in FFXIV?

A: I think that blue mage is an interesting job because you can learn spells from enemies, but honestly I don't think that it really fits MMORPG party settings. If anything, I think it would work solo and it would be really fun to implement it as a job where you go around and learn abilities from every monster, so I'd definitely like to try and do this, but I'm concerned when it comes to playing in a party players would put up barriers if you haven't learned certain abilities. Additionally, in the event you are able to use abilities forever once you learn them, the difficulty of learning abilities would be high, and we wouldn't be able to balance the system so it wouldn't revolve around procuring your abilities instead of equipment. This wouldn't be practical enough to fit in an MMORPG party setting and conversely if you are swapping in only certain abilities you've learned, the true image of a blue mage would diminish, so this is something that I am concerned with. Letter LIVE XVII; 08/23/2014

---

Thank you for providing the source.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Here is a thread that talks about Yoshida's statement about Blue Mage from four years ago. I don't think the consensus was "Yeah, makes sense" though.

---

Yes, I agree with that, I don't feel that everyone through it "made sense". One also needs to remember that the community has changed significantly in the last 4 years and the community opinion has always been fickle.

What's with this idea that BLU is about having overpowered and broken skills. It's about using monster skills and casting them as blue magic. Not all of them are broken and unbalanced and the class can play like a normal one in its history. Just because a few games had fun and gimmicky stuff doesn't mean that was ALL the class was built for. What is this nonsense even?

I'd imagine that Blue Mages have a bit of a strong arm to swing their... scepters? around with. Who's to say that the FFXIV iteration of BLU doesn't have signature moves to perform with their scepters? I remember seeing pictures of BLU in FF11 wielding swords and the like.

I'm not mad at Square for making Blue Mage unique. I'm upset that its uniqueness comes at the cost of my being unable to use it in the content I like doing until it's outdated and I have a premade party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SonKevin

SE is coming up with a really neat idea here. They're creating a class that's completely original to level, completely original to gain skills, completely broken for normal game content, and you're all getting mad for it. The way this game is made, you could not keep BLU true to it's form. This is the only way BLU can be handled in this game and it's a fantastic way of handling it.

---

Okay, but what did they do it instead of?

We could have moved towards further job identity for all jobs, making each as fun to play in the open world as BLU will be. We could have shifted job treatment and fight complexity as to allow for a real BLU to also participate in real content.

Instead, we got placation, in the form of a job-minigame.

It's not BLU being BLU that comes as a slap to the face for many of us. It's that it's their way of saying that they will never allow substantial job identity to be anything but a minigame.

I wasn't interested in blue mage but I'm interested now. I had fears they would need to water it down to just getting abilities during job quests. One of the best part of blue mages in FF games for me is scouring the world to collect abilities. There was also concern about how blue mages straddle roles. That seems like it would be tricky to try to balance. So I'm really looking forward to trying this out. I don't need to be able to take it into group content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyskip

Wrong. Try again.

---

This. I did want Blue Mage, and I’ve played the whole mainline series. I like the system of learning any monster attack you want, but feel like Blue should still have been adapted as a normal job, and not a limited one. To say that we didn’t want it, when OP doesn’t know us really is ignorant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Okay, but what did they do it instead of?

---

This is the most useless question ever. We got BLU instead of any of the dozens of other jobs they initially started discussing years ago. We got BLU instead of all the hundreds of other ideas they had about things to include that we never heard about. We got BLU instead of so many other things that could have been and will never know about that its pointless to even bother with. But you know, pick your favorite thing that you feel got shafted and go with that instead.

I see no placation here, I see Yoshi giving us a well developed job thats true to its historic identity and giving the players many things they've been asking for since 2.0.
-Players wanted a reason to go back into the open world, now you have it.
-Players wanted something different from what we've had for the last 4 years, now you have it.
-Players wanted a unique job that didn't feel like what we already have, now you have it.
-Players wanted new content thats not copy pasta from previous stuff, we got Masked Carnival.
-Players posted fears that BLU would be a watered down caster with very little identity, they made it so its not.
-Players posted fears that BLU would be OP and break group content with monster abilities, they agreed and took steps to stop that. They even let premades bypass that restriction for those that really want to do group content with their friends.

Players literally got everything they wanted with BLU and they're still complaining about it.

This is not a minigame. This is a new job with new job mechanics. If this is a minigame for you then you might as well call all of the job specific mechanics minigames. If you want other jobs to have such unique identity, request it on the forums and push for it but nowhere did Yoshi ever imply that other classes don't have identity or other new classes won't have identity.

Literally none of the fluff matters if the job isn't playable like the rest. It just means they've wasted a tremendous amount of time and effort that would have been better served making an actual job that people could play normally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

giving us a well developed job

---

It fails to meet basic requirements of any other job in the game. It is not a job.

Except it does meet the basic requirements. Its a DPS class, it has skills to kill mobs and access to the magic ranged dps role skills. It can do solo duties, complete quests and participate in group content with a premade group. Its only restriction is no matchmaking duties.

How is this not meeting the basic requirements?

By not being capable of what literally every other job in the game is capable of doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyskip

By not being capable of what literally every other job in the game is capable of doing.

---

Ah yeah, by making it fit the mold and have to do rotaions like other jobs ad infinitum. That's not boring at all /s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pheryx

Ah yeah, by making it fit the mold and have to do rotaions like other jobs ad infinitum. That's not boring at all /s

---

If you think that's boring then why are you playing this game? You clearly must not enjoy it.

BLU can go into any dungeon its high enough level for just like any other class, its not locked out of anything. Roulettes are there for bonus xp and to fill parties and not content in and of themselves. BLU gets bonus xp from open world content to make up for the lost roulette xp and can enter dungeons with a premade group. It can do what other DPS jobs are doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyskip

If you think that's boring then why are you playing this game? You clearly must not enjoy it.

---

It's boring cause this treadmill has been going on for 5 damn years. I have had plenty of fun with the game those 5 years to. But why would you wan't more of the same when people have wanted things to start changing and this can be a step in the right direction for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyskip

If you think that's boring then why are you playing this game? You clearly must not enjoy it.

---

I think that's another aspect that has me really questioning the people defending this decision. I still like playing FFXIV, I still like fighting primals, raids, and doing alliance raids and playing as many classes as I can to learn how they can be effective, challenging myself and accomplishing things with others.
People who are saying Blue Mage had to be this new thing because the base game is so stale and awful, is this really going to save the game for you?
I guess I'm highly upset that Blue Mage as a proper job has been twisted to placate people who...dislike this game anyway, I suppose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

BLU can go into any dungeon its high enough level for just like any other class, its not locked out of anything. Roulettes are there for bonus xp and to fill parties and not content in and of themselves. BLU gets bonus xp from open world content to make up for the lost roulette xp and can enter dungeons with a premade group. It can do what other DPS jobs are doing.

---

You know for a fact that it cannot do what other DPS jobs can do. Stop being coy, it does you no favors.

Based on the piss-poor examples given in the live letter, there is no intention of bringing BLU to endgame content in it's current state. Because it'll apparently just one shot bosses and play havoc with the content. If it's so bad that they'd lock you out of roulettes, why in god's name would they allow a BLU in it's current form to stomp through endgame content in a premade?

Sure, if Yoshi saying the only thing it can't do is matchmaking and it can go into dungeons with premade groups is me being coy and not stating facts then I'm being coy. I'll believe what Yoshi stated in the live letter over creative interpretations here.

You would know all about creative interpretations, I suppose.

I guess you went to the bathroom during his Death vs Bosses example that everyone's been tearing apart since he said it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

BLU can go into any dungeon its high enough level for just like any other class,.

---

You mean 5 year old content that is irrelevant now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

-Players wanted a reason to go back into the open world, now you have it.
-Players wanted something different from what we've had for the last 4 years, now you have it.
-Players wanted a unique job that didn't feel like what we already have, now you have it.
-Players wanted new content thats not copy pasta from previous stuff, we got Masked Carnival.
-Players posted fears that BLU would be a watered down caster with very little identity, they made it so its not.
-Players posted fears that BLU would be OP and break group content with monster abilities, they agreed and took steps to stop that. They even let premades bypass that restriction for those that really want to do group content with their friends.

---

1. Going back into the open world just for what, few weeks in until all BLUs have their spells. Then it's dead again. It's not about going back into the open world for one job, it's to make content in the open world that's actually worth a salt in terms of endgame.
2. It's nice to have something different, but what is even the point of it if it's gonna be always lagging behind and not be able to do normal endgame content. Are you going to have to farm for armor on another job just to equip it on BLU? Doesn't that defeat the purpose? Lots of people wanted to *main* BLU, not have to main another job just to gear up BLU to use it non relevant content.
3.Again, serves no purpose other than side content if they can't do current endgame. It's nice that they are experimenting, but they could've gone a more creative way to implement it so that it can be a normal full job.
4. Masked Carnival is nice and all, but that could've been something on top of point 3.
5 and 6. If their only solution to create hard to implement jobs is to relegate them to side content only, what's gonna be the fate of the future jobs? I feel the dev team is restricting themselves in that matter and aren't being creative enough to tackle this design task. The only way to make them relevant if they are gonna keep this system is if they make "limited jobs" have their own end game raid, where BLUs, BSTs, PUPs and such jobs get to battle together against foes. In that case, Masked Carnival shouldn't just be specific to BLUs and it should give rewards like armor to gear themselves up and stuff. Otherwise you are going to have to farm for armor on another job just for BLU and people won't even be able to make BLU their main.

It is side content though if it cannot access current endgame, (nor can it queue up for matchmaking), because believe it or not, it's what matters to most people. And I'm not even talking about Savage, I'm talking about normal dungeons, alliance raids and normal Alphascape that's considered casual. It's a new *limited* job in that regard, it's not a full job, a proper job per se.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Here is a thread that talks about Yoshida's statement about Blue Mage from four years ago. I don't think the consensus was "Yeah, makes sense" though.

---

That thread was not about how SE would do BLU, it's about the rigidity of the system not allowing the team to get SMN and BLU right. Some of the posts are also very understanding of how BLU would be a problem in regular group play. Anyway, most of them are actually discussing how to change the system to fit BLU. Not the other way around... Which is actually the complete opposite of the complains we're seeing today against BLU. Lots of people are currently saying that they'd have prefered BLU to be shoehorned into that strict mould rather than keeping BLU identity intact.

Guess what, Square Enix solved the problem regarding the rigidity of the system by simply making a brand new one - with some obvious and expected incompatibilities with the established one.
Well, if people don't like that solution, they should've raised their voice before it was too late. Especially since I see a bunch of people claiming that "BLU is my favourite job ever! I've waited it for years!" If you love something that much, you should care about it and actually get involved. (And yes, that's the same argument we ear during elections: "Don't vote? Don't complain.")

I'm definitly keeping that link. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

What's with this idea that BLU is about having overpowered and broken skills. It's about using monster skills and casting them as blue magic. Not all of them are broken and unbalanced and the class can play like a normal one in its history. Just because a few games had fun and gimmicky stuff doesn't mean that was ALL the class was built for. What is this nonsense even?

---

But how do you balance 'gimmicky' stuff in a dungeon, then in a raid environment? In dungeons, you can apply most 'gimmicky' abilities without trouble, making them borderline overpowered (think of morbol breath here). And by raid bosses, those wouldn't work most of the time due how they are close to be immune to everything, making them useless. Or even vice versa.

You can't strike a balance with the Blue Mage here in FFXIV unless they fundamentally change how abilities work in the game.
And that's something they aren't ready to make for a single job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arrius

But how do you balance 'gimmicky' stuff in a dungeon, then in a raid environment? In dungeons, you can apply most 'gimmicky' abilities without trouble, making them borderline overpowered (think of morbol breath here). And by raid bosses, those wouldn't work most of the time due how they are close to be immune to everything, making them useless. Or even vice versa.

You can't strike a balance with the Blue Mage here in FFXIV unless they fundamentally change how abilities work in the game.
And that's something they aren't ready to make for a single job.

---

You make BLU work here the same way it has worked in every single iteration. Bosses are immune to Status/Death and other nonsense, trash doesn't matter, and you figure out the optimal spells to use on a fight for maximum DPS/Support. You can't use the argument that "Players might not have their skills" when we still run into Gladiators in the Burn. If SE truly cared about people having their necessary toolkit, everything after Haukke Manor would lock you out unless you had a Job Stone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isala

You make BLU work here the same way it has worked in every single iteration. Bosses are immune to Status/Death and other nonsense, trash doesn't matter, and you figure out the optimal spells to use on a fight for maximum DPS/Support. You can't use the argument that "Players might not have their skills" when we still run into Gladiators in the Burn. If SE truly cared about people having their necessary toolkit, everything after Haukke Manor would lock you out unless you had a Job Stone.

---

To build off of this, they could've just as easily give BLU Job Quests like any other, and each quest simply said "go here and learn X skill" or "Search for X Skill" and the quest happens, you get the Monster Skill and bam, you've got a new skill. I didn't need a "Lets create a Sightseeing log of Monster Skills and have you go find them like you're filling a PokeDex". I wanted a Job I could play in all the game's content without needing to rely on always having 3, 7, or 23 other people ready to play with me. I wanted to play it through the MSQ, I wanted to solo/duo queue for roulettes and Normal Raids. Most bosses in this game are already immune to status effects, and Eureka Pyros showed us that they are perfectly aware of the power of Death, cuz most NMs are immune to it. They could balance BLU, very easily, they just chose to not balance it and instead just give you Pokemon: Monster Skills Edition and call it a "Job".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

This is the most useless question ever.

---

Read more than a single sentence and you'll be aware of how badly you're misconstruing this. The only options I measured BLU against were specifically those BLU's implementation as such circumvents.

For instance, broadly speaking...

Option 1: Improve upon the current core gameplay such that it allows a job like a true BLU to be introduced as a full-fledged job.
Option 2: Establish precedent for anything outside of core gameplay to be sidelined. Continue homogenizing jobs and gameplay.

We got option 2 instead of option 1. Some people are pissed about that. They did not get "literally everything they wanted". They more nearly got nothing they wanted. Rather than the core game taking steps for what they saw as the better, the things they wanted a BLU for, it is now systematically precedented against any such change. If it's not template, it's segregated off.

You are cherry-picking disparate conflicts and concerns into a strawman of a shared voice while assuming at every step a false ultimatum, that a true BLU could not work in real content. That comes from the assumption that the current design is unimprovable, or at least that the devs will never allow for significant changes to it. The last, at least, may have some merit as an assumption, but that's the first issue that ought to be addressed, then. Praising something for taking the easiest route out the gate, so they can continue to ignore the feedback BLU represented more broadly, is backwards.

Quote:

---

This is not a minigame. This is a new job with new job mechanics. If this is a minigame for you then you might as well call all of the job specific mechanics minigames.

---

Let's say we actually got a decent version of Chocobo Racing, whereby the different colors of Chocobos, as per Mario Kart or the like, each had unique abilities that could be unlocked while you progress up the competitive ladder, chocobo by chocobo, with further caps given each season tier for further abilities. Casual players therefore would tend to pick a couple favorite to progress and compete with in the season while those with more time on their hands could potentially level them all to exploit every unique advantage they might have, map to map, for the various strategies of counterplay Each color chocobo has its own mechanics, and a separate general progression system for each of the six colors or so.

Does that make it any less a mini-game?

It has progression. It has unique mechanics. But it does not interact with the larger game. It is a smaller game within the larger game, limited unto itself. It is a minigame. Would such a version of Chocobo Racing be damn fun? Yes. Ought it be mocked for not being part of the core game? No. But it remains a minigame.

BLU likewise is scarcely permitted to interact with the actual game. It will give nothing unto the assets or experience of the core game, and receive from it only its discarded bits. It is essentially cut off, a gameform limited unto itself. Even if you were then to add a full roster of "limited jobs" those jobs would scarcely be part of the overall game; such an insular, purposely segregated experience is much more akin to a minigame than to an addition to the actual game, or at best a limited mod offshoot of the original game. I meant full well what I said; it was not hyperbole.

BLU is like the kid at an amusement park that doesn’t quite meet the height requirements. While all the other jobs are off doing anything the game has to offer. BLU is stuck on the kiddie rides.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vunak

BLU is like the kid at an amusement park that doesn’t quite meet the height requirements. While all the other jobs are off doing anything the game has to offer. BLU is stuck on the kiddie rides.

---

He also gets all the hand-me-downs from his older, cooler siblings.

"Hey BLU, you can have my old Titan Extreme to play with, I haven't touched it in years anyway."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vunak

BLU is like the kid at an amusement park that doesn’t quite meet the height requirements. While all the other jobs are off doing anything the game has to offer. BLU is stuck on the kiddie rides.

---

That’s actually kind of sad...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyce

I'm definitly keeping that link. Thanks.

---

No problem, have some more.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-on-blue-mage

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...bout-blue-mage

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...olution-to-BLU

Dont forget the reason BLU being kept at level 50 and already making its way in patch 4.5 is for testing and checking feedback from players. Nonetheless I still think the limit should be lifted atleast for casual content.
Beside we dont know how the skills work and if they are actually ogcd or have a global cooldown.
Also we dont know how strong BLU healing, buffing and debuffing skills are. Hence all you can do is convince the Dev Team that BLU should still be playable in easy content - extreme primals, savage raid, ultimate, etc would probably not work unless they go and try balance the job.

But lets be honest here. They have so many jobs to balance already and new jobs are coming at the same time. It shouldnt surprise anyone that they dont have the time to do it.

Hmm. I'm not angry about anything. The first thing to point out is that everything is subjective. There will always be people on both sides of the fence.

Example: I quite enjoyed Diadem, but I didn't think people were playing it how it was intended.

Please keep this in mind while writing these emotional posts.

That said, I enjoyed BLU in XI, and I am looking forward to spending hours upon hours trying to learn Pollen. Again. I think having the real blue magic learning is a nice touch.

However, I also want to be able to do content on BLU. I wanted to "main" it throughout Shadowbringers.

I doubt the direction for BLU is set in stone as of yet. I'd simply like to be able to do "regular" content on my BLU. I'm ok with having to use the party finder to farm the primal spells. But the main content in the game is the tomestone grind.

I'd like to, in the future at some point, be able to use my BLU for "the grind", please.

OP if you want a class that was limited to 30% of the game then sure but people actually wanted to play the majority of the game with Blue mage.

I wanted blue mage. I loved blue mage in ffxi. As far as how it is being implemented in ffxiv if they keep it how they stated I will be avoiding it like the plague it is. This is not an acceptable option for blue mage. I hope SE reads its forums and changes what it has done to a job I love.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elodin

Hmm. I'm not angry about anything. The first thing to point out is that everything is subjective. There will always be people on both sides of the fence.

Example: I quite enjoyed Diadem, but I didn't think people were playing it how it was intended.

Please keep this in mind while writing these emotional posts.

That said, I enjoyed BLU in XI, and I am looking forward to spending hours upon hours trying to learn Pollen. Again. I think having the real blue magic learning is a nice touch.

However, I also want to be able to do content on BLU. I wanted to "main" it throughout Shadowbringers.

I doubt the direction for BLU is set in stone as of yet. I'd simply like to be able to do "regular" content on my BLU. I'm ok with having to use the party finder to farm the primal spells. But the main content in the game is the tomestone grind.

I'd like to, in the future at some point, be able to use my BLU for "the grind", please.

---

Its entirely possible that the Carnivale, and whatever other content is designated as end game for BLU, could award current tombstones at level cap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kogasan

I wanted blue mage. I loved blue mage in ffxi. As far as how it is being implemented in ffxiv if they keep it how they stated I will be avoiding it like the plague it is. This is not an acceptable option for blue mage. I hope SE reads its forums and changes what it has done to a job I love.

---

I hope they listen to the people voicing their support for what they're doing with BLU because that is the BLU I wish to play.