Why won't SE merge the servers due to few people playing the game?

Is there a list that shows server populations?

I haven't seen a game publish server populations to the public since the original EverQuest.

That practice has long since been discontinued, since it gives their competitors information.

I'm going to third/fourth the motion that mergers should not occur until well after the PS3 release. Many people and linkshells are waiting on that release for friends to join them.

XI is merging servers because populations have dropped -- XIV doesn't need server mergers even in the near future because it's not even fully released yet, plus on Rab and Mys I see it's quite lively. There's a very large PS3 player base in Japan that is waiting for that specific release because it's more console heavy than it is PC heavy, even people in the west that aren't PC gamers could barely run XIV and waiting for XIV PS3 release.

If we see a huge population growth when the PS3 version launches, then we'll have went through all the trouble of merging servers for nothing since we'll need to open new ones then. At which point you've made people who had naming conflicts rename, all for nothing.

Personally, I don't think the populations are too terrible. I play on Besaid, and the server population there seems fairly healthy.

It's unnecessary to merge servers at this point without good reason. Come PS3 launch there will be an influx of new players and if the servers are merged that could present some problems. I'd say their best bet is to wait about 2-4 months after PS3 launch, let the population stabilize and then evaluate the need to merge servers.

Server transfers are a tricky issue too at this point. If we allow them it makes the current population happy but they'll all but abandon less populated servers for the top 4. This is fine for now but come PS3 launch people aren't going to want to start on these ghost town servers, they'll try to further populate the top 4. I'd say allow transfers and merges around the same point to avoid these problems.

A few points I've seen...

A. The amount of chocobo's near a servers name shows the total number of people registered on that server, not the actual active population

1. Servers would not merge at least until the game is pay to play... each patch has the potential to bring people back.. people who have characters but just aren't playing... so merging servers would be premature right now with all the free accounts that are still active
What happens if you merge servers and then a ton of people come back... now you have a server with 5k populations at all times and TONS of lag

4. Many people plan to also play their existing character on their PS3..... MANY PEOPLE...

III. Party size is being reduced to 8, so there is not as much need for a larger population... 15 might be tough to field (Although we get 15 together every day) but 4-8 fits where the servers populations are just fine

4. Servers aren't dead.. they are low pop... but not dead... You should enjoy it... SP parties dont have to fight for camps... there isn't a ton of traffic and lag!!!

(P.S. The numbering system I used was intentional to make people smile... Enjoy your day)

Things probably won't merge until PS3 releases and they get a better sense of how many are playing their game.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

4. Many people plan to also play their existing character on their PS3..... MANY PEOPLE...

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I know of at least 5 people who are waiting on the PS3 version, and I'm pretty sure there's a large amount of would-be Japanese players waiting for this is well.

There's going to be quite the population surge once this thing is out of the gate.

Unless the game is up to snuff, that population may not be sticking much longer than the PC population did. ;x

yeah i agree with that merge server at moment when they will Release PS3 and the game be ready add more servers later :)

You can write scripts to parse lodestone to get the total number of active characters. But this will also include mules (like i have 16 characters (inc buddy key) and im 1 person lol) so its not accurate but it is accurate as to how many total characters there is. It can also take a long time >.> as there are 10 million possible characters. (thats max this game can have) so if 1 char parse took 1 second, it'd take like 3 months. Needs some optimization XD

But you could just guess through common sense. Before pt number was taken off they were usually 600-1000, i'd say about 1k is active now per day as game is a little better, maybe less at times, then just times that by conditions, I used to be logged on 24/7 so my number wouldnt ever change, a lot of others did so you'd work out the % of people who are static, then % of people who play a set amount of time (you can get this from the polls but i think it only goes to about 8hrs? or 3? idk lol)

There are probably hundreds of thousands of characters but about 50k active.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Wait, there's no people on the servers? you coulda fooled me....

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This. Servers have plenty population still, and more people come back with every patch. With the PS3 version coming up in the future it'd be silly to operate merges just to have to open new ones then (creating a server divide between PC and PS3 players as a result).

Talking about a "gap" between PC and PS3 players doesn't make sense. There will always be people higher level than you in MMORPGs, and nothing in FFXIV determines that being lower level is a sizable disadvantage. You do your thing, higher level players do theirs.

Simply put optimism isn't misplaced. FFXIV has plenty chances to pick up, and there's absolutely no reason to doperate server merges before those chances are spent.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

This. Servers have plenty population still, and more people come back with every patch. With the PS3 version coming up in the future it'd be silly to operate merges just to have to open new ones then (creating a server divide between PC and PS3 players as a result).

Simply put optimism isn't misplaced. FFXIV has plenty chances to pick up, and there's absolutely no reason to doperate server merges before those chances are spent.

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Saying "people come back with every patch" is not very good fact to base your numbers on because i can garauntee you just as much leave at the same time. For example the amount of people pissed off with mini quests probably sparked the same amount to leave.

Also you have a spike of people trying out the patch, then realising its rubbish and theres still no content and off they go and quit again.

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Originally Posted by viion

Saying "people come back with every patch" is not very good fact to base your numbers on because i can garauntee you just as much leave at the same time. For example the amount of people pissed off with mini quests probably sparked the same amount to leave.

Also you have a spike of people trying out the patch, then realising its rubbish and theres still no content and off they go and quit again.

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I base my facts on what I see. And what I see is that there's a lot of people online. I have no problem finding parties or repairs, or any other thing that needs collaboration, and that at every patch i see people I know coming back, and they tend to stay.

Also, the way the game is designed helps people gather at hubs, mitigating any population "problem", real or perceived.

Finally. SE didn't do the same error many did (and are still doing) going overboard with the number of servers at launch (because some people whined that they had to wait in line 5 minutes the day after launch), so the problem isn't really urgent.

What you say would have some degree of logic if the patches were really "rubbish". Fact is that they aren't.

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Originally Posted by viion

Saying "people come back with every patch" is not very good fact to base your numbers on because i can garauntee you just as much leave at the same time. For example the amount of people pissed off with mini quests probably sparked the same amount to leave.

Also you have a spike of people trying out the patch, then realising its rubbish and theres still no content and off they go and quit again.

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that just means the game would be horribly unplayable right after every patch....

You're also only seeing the world from the perspective of your server and your friends. That doesn't make your point any more or less valid than his.

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

You're also only seeing the world from the perspective of your server and your friends. That doesn't make your point any more or less valid than his.

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Yeh pretty much this ^

We all have opinions based on what we see, on Besaid I see a lot of people during events/patches but they all diminish soon after. I'm in one of the most popular LS's and no one ever comes back from inactive state even during patches.

And when I say patches being "rubbish" its more like, not up to expectations? I thought miniquests were going to be something new and impressive but it turned out to be lacksum copy/paste feature from already ingame systems. And due to that I've quit for now until the game has "content". I will come back during patches and see how they are for a day or 2, but I will then go back to my "quit" status and work in my projects / play other games until this game has content. And looking from the many forums I'm not the only one who is taking this road.

I dont think a server merge would do much, theres no reason to EXP outside leves and leves are only good if you link and the link cap is 3 so findind 3 friends is not difficult in this game and doing that sort of stuff is not hard since its the only thing you can do. Most NM's are easy and either soloed or lowmanned so theres no need for a lot of people.

If there were content which required a lot of people or EXP pt's were like XI i would say a merge would be required, but sadly this game lacks any incentive to have a lot of people required for things and is now being built around that subject that there is just no need for a merge, it would do nothing but make the server feel more crowded.

There is no need to Merge Servers. I have a character on Mysidia and one on Wutai. Mysidia is a 3 chocobo population and wutai is a 2. I can tell definitely tsee a different in populations, as the can be 80+ people in Camp Horizon at the same time on a given night, but I do not see wutai's zones ever dead either. so unless there is a huge discrepency between a 1 chocobo pop server and wutai i see no need.

Merging servers would be fatally bad press, make balanced worlds imbalanced again, put the servers at risk of overpopulation if players do end up coming back, further gluttonize already gluttonized crafting avenues, and crowd the limited NMs. It may save money in the short term, but in the long term it would be a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by viion

And when I say patches being "rubbish" its more like, not up to expectations? I thought miniquests were going to be something new and impressive but it turned out to be lacksum copy/paste feature from already ingame systems.

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Anyone that knows even a little bit about game development (or any development) already knew that the first quests implemented (that are called "side"quests for a reason), were going to be the easiest/fastest to implement. Obviously they didn't hold those back in order to implement other kinds of content that obviously needs longer to be coded/directed/implemented.

I find that the people that find the patches "disappointing" (especially considering that this game is showing the fastest rate of evolution in every MMO I ever played since launch, which means the vast majority of the P2P market, and a large percentage of the F2P one), simply had irrealistic expectations.

And as Peregrine says, there's a very solid possibility that many will come back, as some are already doing. Merging the servers too early would just risk of making them explode is such a possibility was to realize.

Again, merging before you shot all your arrows is a very, very bad commercial and development decision.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

crowd the limited NMs.

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Wut? lol NMs are barely claimed. The most camped is probably Dodore but more camped new due to how stupidly easy it is as it can be duo/trioed, but even then it can still pop and no one around to claim.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Anyone that knows even a little bit about game development (or any development) already knew that the first quests implemented (that are called "side"quests for a reason), were going to be the easiest/fastest to implement. Obviously they didn't hold those back in order to implement other kinds of content that obviously needs longer to be coded/directed/implemented.

I find that the people that find the patches "disappointing" (especially considering that this game is showing the fastest rate of evolution in every MMO I ever played since launch, which means the vast majority of the P2P market, and a large percentage of the F2P one), simply had irrealistic expectations.

And as Peregrine says, there's a very solid possibility that many will come back, as some are already doing. Merging the servers too early would just risk of making them explode is such a possibility was to realize.

Again, merging before you shot all your arrows is a very, very bad commercial and development decision.

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Just to burst your bubble, take a new gen game: TERA, Was released 2 months early as it was in such good condition and had no server issues with mass players. Had a massive 500mb patch after 1st week which included 2 new dungeon maps and new items, it has another 1gb patch coming in April to involve new endgame content, and has an expansion coming in summer. Its been in development less time than XIV and has about 50 times more content and systems.

XIV copy/paste the quest system then supply 20 identical quests. (some little different but still lacking)

Not about "knowing game development", its just that SE are not very good at this sort of stuff and run into a lot of issues due to bad development from the start.

Hell anyone who learns UDK or Cryengine can impliment the same quest system as XIV has after a few tutorials lol. Takes a bout a week to learn and about 30 minutes to setup. Thats because those engines are built better.

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Originally Posted by Elaguila

You have all brought up very valid points, and therefore I forfeit the debate and admit defeat!

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Originally Posted by Enrei

Elaguila was defeated!
The party gains 100 EXP!
The party gains 5 SP!

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lol. well played sir.

If SE decided to merge they would create MORE lag. The game is server side and by creating additional servers they alleviate lag which is their only fix.

Once again, if they merged, this game would literally be unplayable .

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Originally Posted by viion

Just to burst your bubble, take a new gen game: TERA, Was released 2 months early as it was in such good condition and had no server issues with mass players. Had a massive 500mb patch after 1st week which included 2 new dungeon maps and new items, it has another 1gb patch coming in April to involve new endgame content, and has an expansion coming in summer. Its been in development less time than XIV and has about 50 times more content and systems.

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You do know that Tera hasn't launched yet? Unless you refer to the rather lackluster korean launch, that's been quite criticized by the korean public for lacking content (and that's exactly why it doesn't have a release date in NA and Europe yet).

This not to mention the fact that that kind of content patches made so early after the release of a game simply include content that had been in development since way before the release, and simply wasn't included in it because it wasn't finalyzed. You have no idea of how much work on that was done even before a game was launched.

On the other hand, SE pretty much revolutioned and streamlined the gameplay basics and the UI of FFXIV in just a few months post launch, which is something pretty much unprecedented in the market.

I do find it funny, though, that you call Tera "new gen", considering that it's based on a quite antiquated engine, and it shows.

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Not about "knowing game development", its just that SE are not very good at this sort of stuff and run into a lot of issues due to bad development from the start.

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And you obviously know better than them right? :D

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Hell anyone who learns UDK or Cryengine can impliment the same quest system as XIV has after a few tutorials lol. Takes a bout a week to learn and about 30 minutes to setup. Thats because those engines are built better.

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If you think that implementing even one quest in any engine takes 30 minutes, I think there's no real reason to further a discussion on this matter.

By the way

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Originally Posted by Elaguila

You have all brought up very valid points, and therefore I forfeit the debate and admit defeat!

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I have to commend your ability to admit being wrong. I see a lot of people utterly unable to do so, and continue to argue over and over on flawed points that the OP already conceded:D

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Originally Posted by viion

Wut? lol NMs are barely claimed. The most camped is probably Dodore but more camped new due to how stupidly easy it is as it can be duo/trioed, but even then it can still pop and no one around to claim.

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Maybe yours are. We have 3 large NA endgame shells on Wutai who are pretty much done with uraeus, and a 4th one that is trying to start up. Usually two shells are operating on a given night. One shell will camp HPBB and the other buffalo during the day, then there's either dodore competition at night or they stay at their respective camps to ensure 2 HPBB or buffalo kills the next day.

Our server's perfect the way it is, with the limited content available now.

this is the biggest problem with the game i'm having at moment. saronia is empty. i didn't chose a empty server i followed a very full ls, that all left high and dry. i'm in very active ls but the server itself is just empty and is ruining the game completely for me. by now i'd have enjoyed a few classes in packed zones with hundreds of people from dunes to kazam. ffxi didn't have issues with grouping for something as simple as grinding (the thing u do the most) for many many years. and even then it took 30-90mins to make a party that usually still lasted all day.

they need to merge the 1chocobo servers like yesterday, and maybe b4 ps3 launch just open the full servers to go to empty ones again, they did that in ffxi, opened new servers (thought it was cause they needed more i believe, big diff lol)

they is just trying to save face, it will look bad when all the sites start talking bout there merges and empty servers for people that thinking of buying the game. but at same time i think half the players that left would of been entertained enough with a normal server population that they might of stayed. (just my opinion, cause everything they fix won't be enough i'd leave if they expect me to pay to play on an empty server) the idea that they made it free, after i bought the game and 120bucks in crysta don't make it ok to keep us in empty servers for God knows how long. we already waisted 6months. how much longer b4 they say ok we need to merge?

this feels like warhammer server i was on, it was absolutely empty. and they didn't merge for whatever reason, our ls leader took an hour video of us on high pop times threw the entire game, showing it was absolutely empty (pvp have u) and threatened to send it to a paper lol. we merged a week or so after lol. maybe that is what is needed to be done.

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Originally Posted by Elaguila

Is there a list that shows server populations?

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I only saw a chart once, but that was a while back. I have since been unable to find any data. And SE has removed the search function so we cant even speculate how many folks are on at a given time. However, if you look on XIV pro, it had 170k+ registered characters in December(havent checked since) But that also takes into account mules and alt's.

SE is probably embarrassed and doesn't want to be spreading the truth around till they have something more favorable to show.

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Originally Posted by Vix

SE is probably embarrassed and doesn't want to be spreading the truth around till they have something more favorable to show.

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...which, ironically, is even more embarrassing.

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Originally Posted by Vix

I only saw a chart once, but that was a while back. I have since been unable to find any data. And SE has removed the search function so we cant even speculate how many folks are on at a given time. However, if you look on XIV pro, it had 170k+ registered characters in December(havent checked since) But that also takes into account mules and alt's.

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or maybe you shouldn't base speculation on completely empyrical data, brought up with methods of little statistical value. And that's why SE (like pretty much everyone in the industry) removed the search function.

170k "registered" characters is, for instance, quite a laughable figure, considering that the game officially sold more than 600k copies.

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SE is probably embarrassed and doesn't want to be spreading the truth around till they have something more favorable to show.

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Or much more probably they are confident that they have the resources and chances to turn the game around (and they do), and they simply don't feel the need to apply knee-jerk reactions before such resources and chances are spent.

Which is, by the way, the logical thing to do.

@Abriael
Now, if you really believe that the population of players logging
in more than once a week is higher then 50k, then... oh boy.

I possibly want this game to be good as much as you - although
I tend to be on the cynical side. But it's not enough to completely
warp my sense of reality.

The last time SE allowed empirical ("hard") data to be seen by the
public (before they pulled the plug and hid server population) it was
already declining. That was some 1 1/2 months after launch. And
back then, there were still people in Gridania and Limsa. If you
really believe that player numbers have increased since then...
well, if it makes you happy!

And just to add some sugar-coating: At the moment, this game even
is free-to-play. What do you think will happen to the number of
registered accounts once the monthly fee is intruduced? Will it

a) rise or
b) drop?

...bingo! ^.^/

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

@Abriael
Now, if you really believe that the population of players logging
in more than once a week is higher then 50k, then... oh boy.

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I don't have the tools to determine that, and differently from other people (that seem to have a quite telling FUD-spreading agenda), I'm not keen on "inventing" tools that simply hold no statistical or factual value.

What I do see is that I have plenty people to group with, I never had to look for group for more than five-ten minutes, i get my stuff repaired in no time just by putting it in my bazar for five minutes while i run around a city and so forth.

FFXIV is designed around very clear hubs, and this means that population won't be a real problem until/if it'll be much worse than it is now.

Consider yourself lucky then -.-/
If you read back a little, not many people seem to share that luck.

Btw, the data back in December was not "invented". It was just a compilation
of aggregated player numbers logged in at a specific time each day. No hocus-
pocus. Just the numbers SE allowed us to see back then.

Those that vanished once the downward-trend became obvious.

Again: I am confident... no... I believe they have a realistic chance to turn
this boat around and actually win back huge numbers of players once the
promised changes and improvements are implemented. But at the moment,
that's future-talk.

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

Consider yourself lucky then -.-/
If you read back a little, not many people seem to share that luck.

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or maybe those are unlucky, or don't look hard enough for people around them.Or don't bother to use the party search function, that while not perfect, works much better and more effectively than many tend to believe.

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Btw, the data back in December was not "invented". It was just a compilation
of aggregated player numbers logged in at a specific time each day. No hocus-
pocus. Just the numbers SE allowed us to see back then.

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The problem is that that kind of compilation of aggregated numbers fits the description of "empyrical data without any statistical value" perfectly.

Declining numbers past release (especially concurrent login numbers, considering that players play the most in the first weeks, when the "novelty" factor is still strong, on every online game), is nowhere out of market standards, and that's why developers (not nearly just SE), tend to remove the tools to see them past release.
They give people with an agenda something to work with (normally and quite conveniently forgetting to mention decisive factors that don't fit that agenda, like what I mentioned just above).

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or maybe those are unlucky, or don't look hard enough for people around them.

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Another sensible conclusion would be that Eorzea is full of unlucky people. ^.^/

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The problem is that that kind of compilation of aggregated numbers fits the description of "empyrical data without any statistical value" perfectly.

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Err... no. The method they used is pretty sound. At least I am not aware of a better way to draw conclusions about the player population than by noting said player population at predefined intervals.
Is there?

(Btw: empirical != empyreal).

aye, i think he must be in one of the 1-3 servers that have 3chocobo population, no one uses the search function on our servers. finding leve party people if not set up threw ls usually never hit 8people, its a 50 50 chance for it. usually i'm happy with 4-6 long as i get full links.

b4 they removed the server pop numbers on a patch, my server was down to like 600-700people on good hours, what u think they are at now? and how many of them u think are afk, botting crafters,rmt? ask most at this point even the smallest things that u can do without an ls like grinding, a linkshell of fully active people is needed. it don't make for a good game when u gotta make timed events for something as simple as leve links or wait for people to log in to do any type of grinding.

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

Another sensible conclusion would be that Eorzea is full of unlucky people.

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Considering how many, even in this thread, say that a server merge is not warranted (enough to make the OP concede that he was wrong), I would say that it's much less "full" of unlucky people than you make it up to be :D

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Err... no. The method they used is pretty sound. At least I am not aware of a better way to draw conclusions about the player population than by noting said player population at predefined intervals.
Is there?

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The fact that there are no better methods doesn't make a statistically weak method any more solid. It just means that speculating without elements is useless when not detrimental.

like i posted earlier, this feels like warhammer server i was on, it was absolutely empty. and they didn't merge for whatever reason, our ls leader took an hour video of us on high pop times threw the entire game, showing it was absolutely empty (pvp have u) and threatened to send it to a paper lol. we merged a week or so after lol. maybe that is what is needed to be done, i can guarantee what u'll see is that most servers are empty outside the few.

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Originally Posted by Elaguila

With 19 XIV servers running (i.e. when they have electricity) and, what, 35k people playing, why are we not seeing servers merging?

Here are a few reasons for it that I can think of off the top of my head:

1) Once XIV goes PS3, there will be a large gap between PS3 and PC players - by merging you can have the PS3 users start fresh with their own peers while we continue on with our own peers

2) Keep current XIV players happy - we'd be playing in well populated worlds
As a result of (2), we'd be able to:
A) Find groups
B) Establish [friendly] rivalries between guilds for NMs, items, etc
C) Find a LS that fits us well (social vs core vs German vs Japanese, etc)
D) Feel like we're playing an MMO and not a single person RPG
E) RP, for those who are into that

3) RL gil - it'd be cheaper to run fewer servers

Mostly though, it's point no. 3 that I feel is the most important (to SE). Frankly, I'm surprised why it hasn't happened already.

I also think that the fact that all these servers are running is a sign of SE's misplaced optimism. It's like they're waiting for the servers to fill up, even though it might take a while (if ever?).

Finally, I realize that there are many inactive accounts, but 19 servers still seem like too many.

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#1. What if a lot of people quit a server and then restart or someone new restarts? sorta kills that logic ( no offence )
#2 Some people like less populated worlds
A. if you have a good LS you should allways be able to make a group
B. This allways happens no matter what server size your on
C. Again every server big and small allready have this
D. Server size has nothing to do with this , This is more of a player perspective
E. My server is a smaller server ( Saronia ) and we have a lot of people who role play i know of 2 methra and a taru who allways role play next to the repair npc in Ul'Dah , and its funny to watch wile your crafting.

3. Right now SE isent makeing anything on this game other then stright sales of the game. Were playing it for free when it should be 15$ a month more or less depending on your needs/wants.

The only way a server gets combined is when the world drops to like 750~500 a server. Then worlds combine. Wait til PS3 the worlds will fill up more. And like i said People come and go in every server so it makes no sence to combine servers if theres no need to do so now. ( also lower server count = less lag in some areas )

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Originally Posted by weeble

ask most at this point even the smallest things that u can do without an ls like grinding, a linkshell of fully active people is needed. it don't make for a good game when u gotta make timed events for something as simple as leve links or wait for people to log in to do any type of grinding.

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This is why you join 3-4 linkshells instead of hoping to find 1 perfect active linkshell. There's no such thing. People need to start expanding their social network within the game if they want to have people to party with all the time.

Up until about a month ago I was just in 1 linkshell thinking that it was a good community and there was nothing wrong with just having 1 or 2 people on in the LS to party with. Then I started grouping up outwith the linkshell and joined a couple of others whilst also gaining other contacts. Since then it doesn't take more than 10 minutes to get a 8-man party formed for leves.

If people make that little bit more effort to find people to play with then they'll find that the people are actually there. If you see a random person asking for someone to do leves with at a camp then invite them to join you. If you're able to take leves, take them for a place you know is going to be busy so you put yourself in a position to be able to meet more people. I'll admit, I'm one of those people who hate pick-up groups, but it's something you'll have to get used to until there's a more consistent population and there's not lots of people coming and going from the game.

also theres nothing wrong with standing in Ul'Dah and shouting /shout leve party do you need it? Lv. 40~45 yes please!
Or /shout grind party can i have it. level 20~25 yes please.

really not that hard to get a party