Housing Woes

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

Single player owned homes.... your argument is invalid.

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Yeah, they have tenants. Checkmate.

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

Yeah, they have tenants. Checkmate.

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Only if assigned. Nothing makes you have a tenant, and requiring house owners to have one is utterly idiotic.

Personally I think if you are paying your sub there should be no demo timer but that is me.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

Single player owned homes.... your argument is invalid.

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The person literally still tried to sell entire ward to one Roleplayer and expect people to pay that much... when he really had no intention to sell them. Instead he complains that roleplayers are mad at him, and he doesn't know why people are mad at him. Check reddit.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

Lowering the entry cost of owning a house and throwing personal houses in the mix was utterly idiotic.

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There, fixed it for you.

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

There, fixed it for you.

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Pretty poor attempt to redirect the argument away from you wanting to require house owners to have tenants. Come back when you've developed some better debate skills kid.

How about you sell off all your extra houses first before we talk anymore about lowering the demo timer. Owning most of a ward... pfft, talk about entitled.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

Pretty poor attempt to redirect the argument away from you wanting to require house owners to have tenants. Come back when you've developed some better debate skills kid.

How about you sell off all your extra houses first before we talk anymore about lowering the demo timer. Owning most of a ward... pfft, talk about entitled.

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If you don't have a single friend that can enter your house when you're on vacation, then maybe there's something wrong with you.

Obviously my characters were created with these houses, I totally didn't have to work for them. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

If you don't have a single friend that can enter your house when you're on vacation, then maybe there's something wrong with you.

Obviously my characters were created with these houses, I totally didn't have to work for them. :rolleyes:

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You are saying the demo timer should be lowered to provide more houses for players, yet own most of a ward. Absolutely hypocritical, yet typical. You want "fairness" but only for everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

You are saying the demo timer should be lowered to provide more houses for players, yet own most of a ward. Absolutely hypocritical, yet typical. You want "fairness" but only for everyone else.

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How is it hypocritical? I've used my houses for years. I see people that don't and players without houses have to wait 45 days to get a shot at them. Just because I put in way more effort into housing than 99.9% of other players doesn't mean I'm an hypocrite, get off your high horse.

Once again OliverB starts drama on the forum, surprise, surprise.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/5aa44f7b...qw7ho1_250.png

You'll thank yourself in the long run. The housing forums are so much less bombastic now.

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

How is it hypocritical? I've used my houses for years. I see people that don't and players without houses have to wait 45 days to get a shot at them. Just because I put in way more effort into housing than 99.9% of other players doesn't mean I'm an hypocrite, get off your high horse.

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You are a hypocrite for complaining of the unfairness of the housing system while owning more than two houses on one server. Give up 22 of your houses, then you can talk about being fair.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

You are a hypocrite for complaining of the unfairness of the housing system while owning more than two houses on one server. Give up 22 of your houses, then you can talk about being fair.

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The issue is though, the houses were, I'm assuming, acquired fairly (before the rule change, correct me if I am wrong).

It is up to SE to balance things out, not the players, that by SE's own rules, did nothing wrong at the time. SE shouldn't make housing a finite resource.

This is literally an issue of "don't hate the player, hate the game(devs)."

It's like you're yelling at someone that they are being unfair for eating several cupcakes at an all-you-can eat sweets buffet, where the baker intentionally didn't make enough sweets based on their average customer population.
Is the housing system unfair? Yes.
Is it the fault of people that own more than one house? No. So long as the houses were acquired within the rules of the game, the only person you can rightly point blame to is SE. Once people learn this, and start putting the squeeze on them, and less on their fellow players, this housing issue might actually be solved. In the mean time, keep infighting, and staying distracted with that, so SE can sit on their hands about it.

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Originally Posted by AriesMouse

It is up to SE to balance things out, not the players, that by SE's own rules, did nothing wrong at the time. SE shouldn't make housing a finite resource.

This is literally an issue of "don't hate the player, hate the game(devs)."

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It maybe developers fault for their errors, but you are clearly saying that it is okay for one to be jerk to others knowing that others are feeling struggled for something they cant obtain.

Developers can control the management of the houses, but developers cant control players being a jerk.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

You are a hypocrite for complaining of the unfairness of the housing system while owning more than two houses on one server. Give up 22 of your houses, then you can talk about being fair.

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So because I put way more effort into something than you, I am not allowed to comment on it? Nice logic. Also why 22? I'd still have more than 2 ;)

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Originally Posted by Aldotsk

It maybe developers fault for their errors, but you are clearly saying that it is okay for one to be jerk to others knowing that others are feeling struggled for something they cant obtain.

Developers can control the management of the houses, but developers cant control players being a jerk.

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My suggestions would only advantage players that don't have access to housing, go read my posts again. By the way, you've yet to show evidence where I've led someone on regarding offloading this ward to someone else. You've dug your hole way too deep to get out.

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Originally Posted by AriesMouse

The issue is though, the houses were, I'm assuming, acquired fairly (before the rule change, correct me if I am wrong).

It is up to SE to balance things out, not the players, that by SE's own rules, did nothing wrong at the time. SE shouldn't make housing a finite resource.

This is literally an issue of "don't hate the player, hate the game(devs)."

It's like you're yelling at someone that they are being unfair for eating several cupcakes at an all-you-can eat sweets buffet, where the baker intentionally didn't make enough sweets based on their average customer population.
Is the housing system unfair? Yes.
Is it the fault of people that own more than one house? No. So long as the houses were acquired within the rules of the game, the only person you can rightly point blame to is SE. Once people learn this, and start putting the squeeze on them, and less on their fellow players, this housing issue might actually be solved. In the mean time, keep infighting, and staying distracted with that, so SE can sit on their hands about it.

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There was a reason I said "give up". Sure the houses were aquired fairly. But him then complaining about fairness is idiotic.

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

So because I put way more effort into something than you, I am not allowed to comment on it? Nice logic. Also why 22? I'd still have more than 2 ;)



My suggestions would only advantage players that don't have access to housing, go read my posts again. By the way, you've yet to show me evidence of me selling the houses to a roleplayer, I'm still waiting. :cool:

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22 because I did a quick count of your signature. Regardless, if you were really concerned about being fair you would only own two. The dumb 7d idea would not fix anything and only cause problems. 45d is fine for the auto-demo timer.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

22 because I did a quick count of your signature. Regardless, if you were really concerned about being fair you would only own two. The dumb 7d idea would not fix anything and only cause problems. 45d is fine for the auto-demo timer.

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Oh so you prefer having hordes of players camping the handful of available plots on populated servers. How fair of you :) It is clear that you're the one here that has no sympathy for the homeless FCs/players. Next.

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

Oh so you prefer having hordes of players camping the handful of available plots on populated servers. How fair of you :) It is clear that you're the one here that has no sympathy for the homeless FCs/players. Next.

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LOL, I own one small house. You are the person with dozens. Give up all but the two you are allowed currently under the rules, THEN you can talk about caring for the homeless players.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

LOL, I own one small house. You are the person with dozens. Give up all but the two you are allowed currently under the rules, THEN you can talk about caring for the homeless players.

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Quantity doesn't mean a thing, the 27 houses I own are a drop in the sea. Besides, I am following the rules. It's 1 personal house per server and up to 8 FC houses per server. I have 3 service accounts that have houses tied to them. In each case, 1 personal and 8 FC houses. Case in point.

You painted yourself in the corner the moment you mentioned you would rather not have the auto-demo timer. In your own words, pretty poor attempt to redirect the argument away from you :)

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

Quantity doesn't mean a thing, the 27 houses I own are a drop in the sea. Besides, I am following the rules. It's 1 personal house per server and up to 8 FC houses per server. I have 3 service accounts that have houses tied to them. In each case, 1 personal and 8 FC houses. Case in point.

You painted yourself in the corner the moment you mentioned you would rather not have the auto-demo timer. In your own words, pretty poor attempt to redirect the argument away from you :)

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The rule is one house and one FC house per account per server. You are grandfathered. Your 27 houses could have 25 other owners on them if you actually believed your statements.

I said I wouldn't have the timer if you are PAYING your sub.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

The rule is one house and one FC house per account per server. You are grandfathered. Your 27 houses could have 25 other owners on them if you actually believed your statements.

I said I wouldn't have the timer if you are PAYING your sub.

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I knew you would say that.

Glad to see you don't even know what rules are being applied despite talking all that talk. :)

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

You are clueless. Here are the current requirements for a free company

https://i.imgur.com/KcW6YOr.png


What you are all overlooking is the temporary changes to purchasing land. Some are still ongoing, some are not. How do I know? I wasn't able to purchase more FC houses on the same account when the new wards were only available to FCs or personal houses reolcation.


https://i.imgur.com/jIbAiav.png

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Unlike you, I know how many of my houses were grandfathered in during 4.2 and it isn't anywhere near the twenties. I have 24 characters with their own FC house and 3 of these characters happen to own a personal house.

Oh and who cares if you're paying your sub, you are inherently preventing players from purchasing a house you obviously don't need if you want to get rid of the 45 days timer.

Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200 :cool:

Cut the lawyer crap. You know damn well you aren't supposed to have that many houses. You know that if you truely cared about letting more people own houses you would not own 27. You know that owning 27 houses is preventing between 13 and 25 other players on your server, from owning one of them. This while also being on one of the servers with the worst housing shortage, which if your nameplate is correct is Gilgamesh.

You know this. We all know this.

You. Don't. Care.

End of story.

Regardless my own personal feelings on the demo timer, I have not advocated for it's removal and I am not doing so now. Stating an opinion is not the same as advocating for it.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

Cut the lawyer crap. You know damn well you aren't supposed to have that many houses. You know that if you truely cared about letting more people own houses you would not own 27. You know that owning 27 houses is preventing between 13 and 25 other players on your server, from owning one of them. This while also being on one of the servers with the worst housing shortage, which if your nameplate is correct is Gilgamesh.

You know this. We all know this.

You. Don't. Care.

End of story.

Regardless my own personal feelings on the demo timer, I have not advocated for it's removal and I am not doing so now. Stating an opinion is not the same as advocating for it.

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You don't even want to admit your understanding of the rules was flawed from the very beginning. How mature of you, again. I care enough about the housing situation to give FC houses away for free and compensate the players who couldn't get a house against me. But obviously, you don't know that, you don't even know the housing rules. ;)

You can turn your statement regarding the timer any way you want, you are in no position to tell me what is right and what is wrong when you would enjoy to keep your house for no reason as long as you stay subbed. Clearly you want to help homeless players out!!!:D

Just checked, and those "temporary" measurements limiting you to one fc house per account are still in effect. So dont claim that at this point you are anything close to having aquired them 'legaly' Oliver
If you aquired them after these measurements where in effect you just exploited a loophole.

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

Just checked, and those "temporary" measurements limiting you to one fc house per account are still in effect. So dont claim that at this point you are anything close to having aquired them 'legaly' Oliver
If you aquired them after these measurements where in effect you just exploited a loophole.

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There's literally no loophole involved in acquiring 8 FC houses on the same server at the moment. No need to transfer FC leadership to a service account with no FC house tied to it. You just get a rank 6 FC, 4 people (yourself) and you buy a plot. The error message that was present during the two weeks moratorium after the release of patch 4.2 to inform you that you were not illegible to purchase more FC houses isn't there anymore. Still can't purchase more than 1 personal house per account at the moment though, you still get the error message and I hope it stays that way.

Most people already think I've been bypassing the rules to acquire this ward and literally the only thing I've been doing is tell them that I am playing by the rules. I have 0 reasons to lie about what rules are being enforced. If you think you know better, why don't you go to a dead server with 5 characters, level up two FCs and purchase two houses.

Note to self: Avoid Gilgamesh server.

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

have 0 reasons to lie about what rules are being enforced. .

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I can see a few reasons you could be lieing about this:. not saying you are
You could be lieing to make yourself sound more important, to escape prosecution by SE for breaking\circumventing the rules.

You claim that those temp measures are no longer in place. yet the website clearly mentions they still are. If there is no error message anymore its a bug and not a removal of that measure, and exploitation of a bug is still against terms.

And if there where houses free i would test it. On the other hand why would i need a 6th house? Dont find the time to fully decorate what i have now, with only 3 decorated.
And for the people objecting to me having 5, only 1 was grandfathered in the others are perfectly within term

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Originally Posted by Besame

Note to self: Avoid Gilgamesh server.

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Thats easy. isnt it closed for new characters most of the time?

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

I can see a few reasons you could be lieing about this:. not saying you are
You could be lieing to make yourself sound more important, to escape prosecution by SE for breaking\circumventing the rules.

You claim that those temp measures are no longer in place. yet the website clearly mentions they still are. If there is no error message anymore its a bug and not a removal of that measure, and exploitation of a bug is still against terms.

And if there where houses free i would test it. On the other hand why would i need a 6th house? Dont find the time to fully decorate what i have now, with only 3 decorated.
And for the people objecting to me having 5, only 1 was grandfathered in the others are perfectly within term

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If I was doing anything shady regarding the houses, I wouldn't even be typing here in the first place. Just because a purchasing guide, that's not even in the game, listing temporary measures hasn't been updated doesn't mean I'm infringing anything.

As I said, the restriction disappeared when the moratorium expired, which obviously makes sense. SE gave existing homeowners a head start of two weeks so they could relocate, if they desired, along with allowing houseless FCs that were illegible under the temporary restrictions to finally get a house in populated servers. If you actively bypassed those temporary restrictions on FC house purchases by using multiple service accounts to obtain houses during the moratorium then sure, SE might tell you that you were exploiting and you may/may not get punished because you were trying to capitalize before it was open season.

Secondly, there's no workaround or "loophole" as you like to call it unlike using ungarmax outside of designated instances in an effort to clear other instances. If you meet the old requirements to purchase an FC house, there's nothing stopping you. Someone that quit during heavensward and just came back, having no knowledge of what happened inbetween wouldn't even know about the temporary restrictions.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate being confronted on the subject when it's being done properly. I didn't want to body that Famfrit guy above, but he was asking for it tbh :p. You have every right to be doubtful of my motives/intentions. I certainly prefer that over being depicted automatically as a bad person because I do things differently than others. It serves no purpose in a debate.

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

Thats easy. isnt it closed for new characters most of the time?

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Server's been open for a year now.

Pfft, you didn't even come close kid. So when are you going to let 13-25 other unfortunate players have a house by giving up your extras?

Oh wait... you aren't. Until you do you have ZERO right to talk about additional housing restrictions.

Oliver you say "Don't get me wrong, I appreciate being confronted on the subject when it's being done properly. "
Well from every post i read of you i see that you just sidestep or even ignore the arguements of others and repeating your own points.
It sounds like a broken record. You claim to do nothing wrong but there is also something called the spirit of the law/rules, what is meant to be and you are clearly breaking that. I still also claim that you are breaking the letter of the rules too. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to owning as many houses as you do. I bet they arent even furnished properly. When you get rid of any you arent supposed to hold above the 1 fc/personal you will have shown you arent a .......... (fill in favourite expletive)

It's true that the limitation on FC houses per account was quietly lifted (probably when personal housing could be bought again), and I actually agree that this is a good thing. SE needs to make up their mind about how to deal with alts, and the housing situation has kind of forced their hand but they're still waffling over it, probably because it goes against their original stance.

Alts were supposed to be completely independent characters in their own right, separate from the "main" and fully actualized. That was the excuse for not being able to mail them from your main (and something something rmt as if they don't just use the FC chest but anyway). Not allowing them to own their own houses is a good move considering the housing shortage, but it breaks from that original premise. You CANNOT be a full character when you're restricted by the other characters on the account. For this reason, the FC restriction was good only as a temporary measure alongside the temporary freeze on personal housing purchases, to allow homeless FCs the chance to snag houses without worrying about someone buying a bunch of them up in single-person FCs with their alts. However, there are a number of players with multiple active characters that they have in separate FCs and IN GENERAL if one of those FCs happens to not have a house, they shouldn't have to kick someone just because their alt is in a different FC with a house. It was a special situation, and it's over now. The playerbase as a whole shouldn't have to be that restricted on a regular basis, especially on smaller servers (like mine, where there are still lots of empty houses sitting at the minimum price).

If SE wants alts to be fully actualized characters, they should fix their housing system so that alts can be allowed to own their own houses again. Otherwise, they should just give up on that stance and allow alts to share the main's house (and while they're at it, auto add them to our friends lists so we can mail them).

Also I say this a lot, but ffs PUT ACCESS TO COMPANY WORKSHOPS SOMEWHERE THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE HOUSING. Then maybe we wouldn't see those single-person FC houses with nothing in them.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You are the architect of your own misery

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That is a lovely turn of phrase. I'm going to have find a way to get that into a sentence tomorrow.

You are going to see this every so often. The people who become real estate moguls or who find a way to own or control large portions of premium content on games like this. Keep in mind that a lot of work goes into managing such a sprawling empire, even with bots. It ends up becoming the only part of the game thats fun for them, since they found a method that works and allows their presence to be felt or known in a way that others cant touch or replicate. Celebrity by enmity. Or maybe they just like interior design. In any case, using material wealth to validate worth is pretty sad but essentially the only enjoyment some ppl can get out of this. *shrugs*

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

Oliver you say "Don't get me wrong, I appreciate being confronted on the subject when it's being done properly. "
Well from every post i read of you i see that you just sidestep or even ignore the arguements of others and repeating your own points.
It sounds like a broken record. You claim to do nothing wrong but there is also something called the spirit of the law/rules, what is meant to be and you are clearly breaking that. I still also claim that you are breaking the letter of the rules too. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to owning as many houses as you do. I bet they arent even furnished properly. When you get rid of any you arent supposed to hold above the 1 fc/personal you will have shown you arent a .......... (fill in favourite expletive)

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Please present me the arguments that have been brought forward regarding my situation that weren't tainted by hatred and I will gladly answer them. Not that you're up to a good start with your "violating the spirit of the rules" nonsense but I'm getting ahead of myself.

I certainly use my houses more than all those people who let their houses get demolished automatically. There are over 4,000 thousand houses on my server, I represent 0.6%. More houses get auto-demolished every week than the total amount of houses I own. There is no "spirit of the rules" that is your very own opinion on what is moral and what isn't. Having all these houses at my disposal allows me to have an insanely large amount of gardens, airships and wheel stand to prime grade 3 FC buffs. Having them furnished serves no purpose to me because they are an investment. Clearly you don't see them as such and that's fine. Not everyone plays this game for the same reasons. At the end of the day, I don't really care if people hate me or not. My friends know what kind of person I am and the effort I've put into this project.

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Originally Posted by Brynne

It's true that the limitation on FC houses per account was quietly lifted (probably when personal housing could be bought again), and I actually agree that this is a good thing. SE needs to make up their mind about how to deal with alts, and the housing situation has kind of forced their hand but they're still waffling over it, probably because it goes against their original stance.

Alts were supposed to be completely independent characters in their own right, separate from the "main" and fully actualized. That was the excuse for not being able to mail them from your main (and something something rmt as if they don't just use the FC chest but anyway). Not allowing them to own their own houses is a good move considering the housing shortage, but it breaks from that original premise. You CANNOT be a full character when you're restricted by the other characters on the account. For this reason, the FC restriction was good only as a temporary measure alongside the temporary freeze on personal housing purchases, to allow homeless FCs the chance to snag houses without worrying about someone buying a bunch of them up in single-person FCs with their alts. However, there are a number of players with multiple active characters that they have in separate FCs and IN GENERAL if one of those FCs happens to not have a house, they shouldn't have to kick someone just because their alt is in a different FC with a house. It was a special situation, and it's over now. The playerbase as a whole shouldn't have to be that restricted on a regular basis, especially on smaller servers (like mine, where there are still lots of empty houses sitting at the minimum price).

If SE wants alts to be fully actualized characters, they should fix their housing system so that alts can be allowed to own their own houses again. Otherwise, they should just give up on that stance and allow alts to share the main's house (and while they're at it, auto add them to our friends lists so we can mail them).

Also I say this a lot, but ffs PUT ACCESS TO COMPANY WORKSHOPS SOMEWHERE THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE HOUSING. Then maybe we wouldn't see those single-person FC houses with nothing in them.

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Thanks for confirming what I've been saying regarding the temporary restrictions.

I often tell people why having two service accounts is a lot better than having two alts on a single account because of how restrictive this game is. They did "upgrade" the mailing system, but we're still a long shot from the convenience of being able to literally trade yourself with two characters. I vaguely remember the days where I had to log out and log in a bunch of time just to move items between FCs and I do not miss them whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Brynne

It's true that the limitation on FC houses per account was quietly lifted (probably when personal housing could be bought again), and I actually agree that this is a good thing. SE needs to make up their mind about how to deal with alts, and the housing situation has kind of forced their hand but they're still waffling over it, probably because it goes against their original stance.

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I suspect it's more a matter of they're trying to figure out a better way to address the situation.

I don't believe as the other poster does that SE has lifted the restriction because they're okay with people owning multiple FC houses. I believe the restriction is still in place but not being enforced because it was interferring with the ability of legitimate FCs to purchase houses if their members had alts in FCs that already owned a house.

Short of SE issuing an official statement about the current policy on housing, we'll all left guessing. Personally, I'm going to stick to what's listed on the Lodestone guide. If that was actually changed, it would have been a simple matter for SE to update it as just as they update information on other temporary measures such as housing demolition suspension and things like the aquarium bug.

In the meantime, it's not worth engaging that poster on the subject. It just adds to forum drama, which I think is the intent.

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If SE wants alts to be fully actualized characters, they should fix their housing system so that alts can be allowed to own their own houses again. Otherwise, they should just give up on that stance and allow alts to share the main's house (and while they're at it, auto add them to our friends lists so we can mail them).

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I agree they should let alts share the one house per account with the main character on the account, but allowing alts to buy their own houses was a bad idea from the start. It was a big reason for the shortage of houses in the first place. I have people in my FC that have alts in a couple other FC's. It didn't stop my FC existence or upgrading to a bigger FC. The system in it's current state, is not perfect, but it's way better than what we had previous and it's doesn't matter what they fix, people are still going to whine.

If they fix anything they need to have restrictions in owning an FC. Like for small fc house it's 3 members minimum, medium 6 members and large 9 members and I mean "active" members. Any member not logged on in certain amount of days is flagged inactive automatically and you risk losing your house if you don't recruit in the minimum number of active players. FC's are not private housing, nor were they intended to be, with workshops which is a perk of an FC and should be.

Things I would enjoy, hmmm. I'd like the ability to add on a workshop to my medium house and the ability to create items solo. This is a biggie for me. My hubby and I are alone in his FC and I don't like trying to seek out people then pay them to stand in the workshop for building or upgrades.

I would also like to have any alts allowed access to my house.

I would like the ability to turn an existing house into a FC.

I would like an item increase for houses. SE keeps bringing out all these new items and I have to remove others I like also to fit them in, especially the smaller comfort items like glasses, plates, pillows and other smalls.