Requesting a free month. Please?

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10-26-2018, 01:06 PM
Sigma-Astra

People who think they should be reimbursed for DDoS attacks while not fully understanding what DDoS attacks are....

https://media.giphy.com/media/26ufbP...wdKU/giphy.gif
10-26-2018, 01:20 PM
Theodric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

People who think they should be reimbursed for DDoS attacks while not fully understanding what DDoS attacks are....

It doesn't really matter who or what the cause of the interrupted game-play actually is. In the real world in some countries it isn't at all unusual for companies to offer a token gesture of goodwill in response to incidents that might be entirely out of their hands. A good example would be bad weather disrupting a delivery. That's how it is over here in the UK, at any rate.

I adore FFXIV though I do feel as though people bend over backwards a little too much at times to excuse clinical customer service. In the early portion of ARR if there were any issues then they were addressed in a far less distant manner. I remember there being some bug with retainers resulting in everybody being sent a pot or two of dye. Was it necessary? Hardly - but it was a pleasant gesture.
10-26-2018, 01:35 PM
Sigma-Astra

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theodric

It doesn't really matter who or what the cause of the interrupted game-play actually is. In the real world in some countries it isn't at all unusual for companies to offer a token gesture of goodwill in response to incidents that might be entirely out of their hands. A good example would be bad weather disrupting a delivery. That's how it is over here in the UK, at any rate.

I adore FFXIV though I do feel as though people bend over backwards a little too much at times to excuse clinical customer service. In the early portion of ARR if there were any issues then they were addressed in a far less distant manner. I remember there being some bug with retainers resulting in everybody being sent a pot or two of dye. Was it necessary? Hardly - but it was a pleasant gesture.

A bug with retainers that can easily be fixed by a re-coding of the script is no where close towards the complications of a DDoS attack. It's not only nearly impossible to mitigate, but 100% impossible to prevent from ever happening or see it coming. It actually does matter who or what the cause is. If it's something that SE did themselves on their end, then yes, we could ask for something to be reimbursed to us if it meant that we lost playtime due to their own misgivings. But, this has literally nothing to do with SE on their end regarding technical matters or an issue that they could fix themselves. They can't. It's insane how entitled some people are in thinking that they need to be reimbursed for something completely out of the companies hands.

Bad weather like hurricanes and tsunamis? Maybe. DDoS attacks? No.

What good would a free month of service be if the attacks happened again during everyone's free month of playtime? It's not only an unreasonable demand, but an outrageous one as well that could backfire.

You can't possibly tell me that people don't have anything else to play, watch, or occupy their time with while this is happening. People are so impatient and easily offended the moment something inconveniences them while not fully understanding why or how.
10-26-2018, 01:41 PM
Dirwen

You do realize we are paying customers? We have the right to complain if the product we paying for isn't working right.

Doesn't matter if it's an outside influence at least SE can show like they care. At the moment I haven't seen SE say or do anything to calm the so-called sheep as you call us.
10-26-2018, 01:48 PM
Sigma-Astra

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirwen

You do realize we are paying customers? We have the right to complain if the product we paying for isn't working right.

Doesn't matter if it's an outside influence at least SE can show like they care. At the moment I haven't seen SE say or do anything to calm the so-called sheep as you call us.

I'm a paying customer as well and do you see me throwing a temper tantrum over something that happens to many other companies all of the time including Blizzard, Google, and Amazon? No.

Because I'm one of those customers who doesn't demand that a company bend over and kiss my feet the moment I feel offended or inconvenienced over something not going my way, especially if I don't understand the why's and how's of what's wrong.

Patience is a virtue and I'm not about to let a virtual world spike my blood pressure nor am I going to act like a kid screaming in a grocery store because mommy didn't buy them that candy bar.

Do you call and complain to the company that your toaster isn't working because someone keeps smacking it with a hammer and they should send you a free one? No. No, you don't. That's exactly what's going on with the servers.

Does this suck? Absolutely. But, the only thing you can do is wait and deal with it like everyone else is doing.

At best, they can tell you to please be patient in the meantime, that's all they can really say, and how exactly is that going to calm anyone when everyone feels like lashing out and not using common sense anyways.
10-26-2018, 01:51 PM
Theodric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

A bug with retainers that can easily be fixed by a re-coding of the script is no where close towards the complications of a DDoS attack. It's not only nearly impossible to mitigate, but 100% impossible to prevent from ever happening or see it coming. It actually does matter who or what the cause is. If it's something that SE did themselves on their end, then yes, we could ask for something to be reimbursed to us if it meant that we lost playtime due to their own misgivings. But, this has literally nothing to do with SE on their end regarding technical matters or an issue that they could fix themselves. They can't. It's insane how entitled some people are in thinking that they need to be reimbursed for something completely out of the companies hands.

Bad weather like hurricanes and tsunamis? Maybe. DDoS attacks? No.

What good would a free month of service be if the attacks happened again during everyone's free month of playtime? It's not only an unreasonable demand, but an outrageous one as well that could backfire.

You can't possibly tell me that people don't have anything else to play, watch, or occupy their time with while this is happening. People are so impatient and easily offended the moment something inconveniences them while not fully understanding why or how.

It doesn't necessarily need to be a free month...or even a free day. Yet Chaos has been in a dire state for months according to my reliable sources (fellow European players) and these recent DDoS attacks have affected people on pretty much every server across all of the established datacentres. If it was a problem that lasted a day or two and calmed down then that'd be one thing...but this has been going on for at least a week now. I don't think many people are blaming Square Enix for the actual attacks - their hands are tied until they can get a handle on the situation.

It's not a case of entitlement either - at least not in every case. You do realise some of us work in the customer care industry, yes? My own job involves reviewing how restaurants treat their customers and how they choose to respond to issues. I'll tell you one thing - word of mouth from disgruntled customers is a very powerful thing. Yet it's very easily countered by some light gestures of appeasement.

This isn't a F2P game. At the very least, people are paying a monthly subscription fee. To say nothing of the amount spent on optional services.
10-26-2018, 01:53 PM
Dirwen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

I'm a paying customer as well and do you see me throwing a temper tantrum over something that happens to many other companies all of the time including Blizzard, Google, and Amazon.com? No.

Because I'm one of those customers who doesn't demand a company bend over and kiss my feet the moment I feel offended over something not going my way.

Patience is a virtue and I'm not about to let a virtual world spike my blood pressure like a kid screaming in a grocery store because mommy didn't buy them that candy bar.

Do you call and complain to the company that your toaster isn't working because someone keeps smacking it with a hammer and they should send you a free one? No. No, you don't.

Toaster is something you buy one off and not a service people pay monthly for. These attacks been happening for a month now right? That is a long time for disruptive service and you wonder why people are mad?

You are probably okay with getting screwed over but I'm not and it seems majority of people are the same.
10-26-2018, 01:55 PM
Theodric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

I'm a paying customer as well and do you see me throwing a temper tantrum over something that happens to many other companies all of the time including Blizzard, Google, and Amazon? No.

The vast majority of people in this thread have been perfectly civil and polite. I'm not sure if I would class your posting as a 'temper tantrum' but you're definitely going out of your way to belittle and insult other posters for having a different opinion than you and daring to request that things are handled differently. I'm not going to stop playing if compensation is not offered, though I certainly would appreciate it if it were to be offered.
10-26-2018, 02:10 PM
Sigma-Astra

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirwen

Toaster is something you buy one off and not a service people pay monthly for. These attacks been happening for a month now right? That is a long time for disruptive service and you wonder why people are mad?

You are probably okay with getting screwed over but I'm not and it seems majority of people are the same.

How am I okay with getting screwed over? You let me know how you even remotely came towards that conclusion just because you're upset. I'm still paying my sub because XIV isn't going anywhere and once the issue has been handled, I'll play again. And clearly, so are you or you wouldn't be able to post on the forums. Life goes on. You do something else in the meantime.

It's not going to kill you to not play XIV. Calm down, eat a snickers. Furthermore, a small vocal minority on the forums every time something like this happens doesn't make you the majority of people either.

It's not like SE is clinking wine glasses while this is going on either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theodric

It's not a case of entitlement either - at least not in every case. You do realise some of us work in the customer care industry, yes? My own job involves reviewing how restaurants treat their customers and how they choose to respond to issues. I'll tell you one thing - word of mouth from disgruntled customers is a very powerful thing. Yet it's very easily countered by some light gestures of appeasement.

I work in the customer service business as well and guess what? The customers are not always right and whoever made the ruling of "the customer is always right" should be shot in the foot. Considering that there's no way to circumvent this type of thing, no, they don't owe anything to us other than maybe a "We're sorry, please try again later."

And if it continues towards the point where auto-demolition may happen on housing for people, at best they could restrict the timer on that for the time-being. That's about as much of a courtesy you may see from SE, considering playing an online game is a luxury and not a necessity as it were.

They're not going to give anything to anyone and if they did, it would be those stupid fireworks probably.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theodric

The vast majority of people in this thread have been perfectly civil and polite. I'm not sure if I would class your posting as a 'temper tantrum' but you're definitely going out of your way to belittle and insult other posters for having a different opinion than you and daring to request that things are handled differently.

Telling people that they're overreacting and throwing a temper tantrum isn't belittling or insulting in any way when the issue is being hyperbolized towards the point where we need compensation for it, not to mention, people are quick to rant their ire about the attacks.

The condescension from the opposite spectrum with "you do realize that we're paying customers" or "you do realize some of us work in customer service" is unneeded and I would actually say the context and phrasing of that is belittling because it's questioning the intelligence of the person it's being directed towards.
10-26-2018, 02:19 PM
Sigma-Astra

We had problems with DDoS attacks during the launch of Stormblood if everyone remembered and nothing was reimbursed then either. So, don't count on it now.
10-26-2018, 03:22 PM
Arrius

Lots of armchair tech people here again. Delightful.
10-26-2018, 03:31 PM
Airget

Ya, sadly the act of spoofing isn't that hard and even worse, DDOS attacks aren't just the act of a goon using their own computer to launch attacks at a target location.

People that obtain harmful viruses on their computer or malware they are unaware of can be used to turn your computer into an assistant for DDOSing. So while we would like to think it's easy to find the main source of the DDOSer, sadly in most cases a DDOSer themselves don't use their own computer to perform attacks, they create malware to have other computers host their malicious objective.

Source https://www.bankinfosecurity.com/mal...attacks-a-8656
10-26-2018, 03:35 PM
Leloa

So you haven't been able to play for a full month or...?
10-26-2018, 04:08 PM
ErryK

A whole month... an entire 30-31 days of gametime free of charge... not gonna happen. At most, you'll see a day reimbursed and that's if they decide to reimburse.

Be serious, man...
10-26-2018, 04:16 PM
Mirch

nope, it's ok as it is tbh, but i agree they could have improve their security
10-26-2018, 04:48 PM
micropanther7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theodric

It doesn't really matter who or what the cause of the interrupted game-play actually is. In the real world in some countries it isn't at all unusual for companies to offer a token gesture of goodwill in response to incidents that might be entirely out of their hands. A good example would be bad weather disrupting a delivery. That's how it is over here in the UK, at any rate.

I adore FFXIV though I do feel as though people bend over backwards a little too much at times to excuse clinical customer service. In the early portion of ARR if there were any issues then they were addressed in a far less distant manner. I remember there being some bug with retainers resulting in everybody being sent a pot or two of dye. Was it necessary? Hardly - but it was a pleasant gesture.

So much this, and your other post as well, stop talking sense on the forums :P I'd be happy with the Road to 60 buff being activated for a while and a server-eating Hamster minion as a form of appeasement, please SE :)
10-27-2018, 12:25 AM
InkstainedGwyn

The thing is, most people on this thread "naysaying", such as myself, actually agree that a token or gesture of goodwill (minion, road to 60 buff, etc) would be nice, and even reasonable. What we don't like is the excessive entitlement that comes along with a lot of these requests. If you want to argue that a company would be smart to do so, and that us, as players, have been inconvenienced, it's true. But shrieking expletives and demanding a month's playtime because "you are owed it" is untrue. You're legally owed nothing. Anything they decide to give you is a bonus. Just like a store can point at a "no refunds" sign when you bring back a broken item, so can SE point to their ToS.
10-27-2018, 02:04 AM
MsQi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrius

Lots of armchair tech people here again. Delightful.

Not really, mostly discussion about customer service, and responsibility. A little, but not a lot.
10-27-2018, 02:20 AM
Paladinleeds

Quote:

Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

The thing is, most people on this thread "naysaying", such as myself, actually agree that a token or gesture of goodwill (minion, road to 60 buff, etc) would be nice, and even reasonable. What we don't like is the excessive entitlement that comes along with a lot of these requests. If you want to argue that a company would be smart to do so, and that us, as players, have been inconvenienced, it's true. But shrieking expletives and demanding a month's playtime because "you are owed it" is untrue. You're legally owed nothing. Anything they decide to give you is a bonus. Just like a store can point at a "no refunds" sign when you bring back a broken item, so can SE point to their ToS.

Exactly this. The entitlement of what people are asking for is ridiculous. Now I agree, a token of goodwill wouldn't go amiss (once they get it resolved), but like you said, ToS states that legally, SE owe you zilch. And if you wanna take it to court, you'll lose the battle so hard (assuming the court will even hear your case), plus you'll have to pay SE's legal fees which will total up a few hundred thousand pounds at least (a company this size will use their army of lawyers, and that doesn't come cheap). But because of how much people are demanding stuff, I'm actually hoping SE refuses to give a token of goodwill, and actually punishes those who have demanded it. Petty? Sure. But I think it's the only way these people are going to be quiet and accept that demanding free stuff isn't the right way to go.
10-27-2018, 02:23 AM
whiskeybravo

Ban anyone asking for a handout.
10-27-2018, 02:33 AM
Fyce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadane

The games pretty playable. There are definite unstable times, but playable.

With my roster, on Chaos, we've had to cancel about 70% of our raiding nights for the entire month of october. And that's something you can't schedule around. You still need to get the 8 players ready on time, and then pray for the DDOS not to come... but they do, and we simply can't play for hours.
That's what "instability during peak hours" mean.
10-27-2018, 04:18 AM
MonsieurMoodle

Quote:

Originally Posted by WellFooled

Assuming there are 500k active players in FFXIV (I have no idea, number is pulled out of my hat based on guesswork and witchcraft) and each one is paying the $13 base subscription; giving away a free month of service would cost them $6,500,000.

Would a gesture be nice? Absolutely. Is giving away a free month to their player base reasonable? Not even a little.

Gosh, didnt even thought about that this way. Still, seems lots of people are having a different point of view, since some white knights are here to remind us we actually agreed to the TOS to get our time and money sucked in. :) "deal with it" rofl
10-27-2018, 04:39 AM
JohnSpawnVFX

>"lots of people"
> thread only has 7 pages
> only 24 likes on first post

Yup, you sure showed those white knights. Compared to Greed Only feedback, which spanned 100s of pages and 300+ likes on first posts across several topics, pretty sure this is still significant... /s
10-27-2018, 04:46 AM
MonsieurMoodle

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

>"lots of people"
> thread only has 7 pages
> only 24 likes on first post

Yup, you sure showed those white knights. Compared to Greed Only feedback, which spanned 100s of pages and 300+ likes on first posts across several topics, pretty sure this is still significant... /s

Such a tiny post, and still here you are.
10-27-2018, 04:54 AM
JohnSpawnVFX

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsieurMoodle

Such a tiny post, and still here you are.

A person making a scene always attracts attention. Doesn't mean that they should be humored.
10-27-2018, 05:14 AM
Zephera

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsieurMoodle

white knights

There's that term again, always great to see someone try to dismiss others disagreeing by belittling them. It really makes your own argument look rock solid.
10-27-2018, 07:06 AM
MonsieurMoodle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephera

always great to see someone try to dismiss others disagreeing by belittling them.

Exactly. Totally what you aren't doing right now.
By the way this wasnt the topic here, but thanks for your share
10-27-2018, 08:26 AM
Zephera

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsieurMoodle

Exactly. Totally what you aren't doing right now.
By the way this wasnt the topic here, but thanks for your share

Ah, so you're allowed to do it to others but can't take it when it happens to you, good to know. And it sure seems like the topic of the thread right now, given your previous posts.
10-27-2018, 10:22 AM
MonsieurMoodle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephera

Ah, so you're allowed to do it to others but can't take it when it happens to you, good to know. And it sure seems like the topic of the thread right now, given your previous posts.

I'm done feeding the troll.
10-27-2018, 04:41 PM
Zephera

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsieurMoodle

I'm done feeding the troll.

Yes, clearly I'm a troll just because I pointed out a little hypocrisy.
10-27-2018, 05:17 PM
Vahlnir

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsieurMoodle

I'm done feeding the troll.

https://media.giphy.com/media/fH9Lpz...3z2R/giphy.gif

You are the one trolling, sir.
10-27-2018, 08:09 PM
Sigma-Astra

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsieurMoodle

I'm done feeding the troll.

If you don't want people to come here and criticize your statements, then perhaps maybe you shouldn't post them on a public avenue...or learn that not everyone having opinions that you disagree with or counterpoints to your own are trolls either.

This isn't a anti-criticism safe zone.
10-28-2018, 01:10 AM
InkstainedGwyn

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from response or consequence. If you're looking for an echo chamber you can set up a discord server and make it invite-only. Meanwhile, "getting the last word" by calling someone a white knight or troll (neither of which of those definitions are being used correctly) isn't really going to get anybody to stop talking about it, they're just going to know that you can't carry the conversation any longer without an insult.
10-28-2018, 01:25 AM
Kyuuen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theodric

Very little will likely happen, unfortunately.

MMO's are lagging behind when it comes to customer care and public relations. Last month I ordered some items from a luxury supermarket so I could host a dinner party. A couple of the items were not in stock and the terms of service stated that they would be replaced with something equivalent to their value and as similar as possible to the original product. When I went to the store to pick up my order they had replaced things sufficiently, yet they apologised and also threw in a free bottle of wine and a box of chocolates as compensation. They didn't need to do it, yet it was a pleasant gesture.

As far as FFXIV is concerned...service has been interrupted for a great many players. Plans have been disrupted. Progress has been lost. Compensation isn't owed due to the wording of the terms of service but it would be a lovely gesture for an in-game item to be sent to every player as a little 'thank you' for sticking with the game even during turbulent times. It'd do wonders for PR if nothing else.

The only argument I'll pose against that, is that what you presented was a singular case. What is being requested is blanketed compensation for everyone, and not everyone has been affected the same, and more importantly is too costly to do. So does that mean those who were affected most should receive more compensation? Then that creates the problem of people claiming to have been affected, but weren't. Therefore they'd have to investigate every claim of disrupted service, which would be too costly and take too much time in figuring out who's entitled to what. Which brings us right back to the blanket compensation, which as previously stated is too costly to give up.

Some things can't be guaranteed in digital services due to acts of god and even those that would purposefully disrupt service. It's why as much is stated in the ToS.
10-29-2018, 06:18 AM
MonsieurMoodle

Quote:

Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

they're just going to know that you can't carry the conversation any longer without an insult.

I get your view, and it does feel like people are asking for it, so I'll just ignore it for now. I'm not into the harrassing stuff.
10-29-2018, 12:19 PM
spf1200

Did you not see the other thread that got nuked by the mods? Seems like a bad idea to start another thread when the same topic.
10-29-2018, 01:21 PM
Rymm

Quote:

Originally Posted by spf1200

Did you not see the other thread that got nuked by the mods? Seems like a bad idea to start another thread when the same topic.

While both threads are equally idiotic, this one actually predates the one that got nuked. It just fell off the front page when the "discussion" in that other one heated up.
10-29-2018, 06:49 PM
Crushnight

Yea I kinda went overboard and became very childish but I could see nothing was ever getting through to the OP of that thread no matter how many better people were explaining to them why what they were asking for was unreasonable and what SE can and can't do. I am glad the moderators saw fit to get rid of that thread.
You have every right to complain when something upsets you but you can't expect compensation when it's completely out of their control.
Asking for something more reasonable is far better the outrageous. You wouldn't go to a store and demand a free bottle of wine because the crackers you wanted in order didn't show up on the delivery for said store asking for replacement crackers is much better
10-29-2018, 06:55 PM
JunseiKei

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

I'm actually hoping SE refuses to give a token of goodwill, and actually punishes those who have demanded it. Petty? Sure. But I think it's the only way these people are going to be quiet and accept that demanding free stuff isn't the right way to go.

Given this isn't the first time we've had these issues, nor will they be the last, nothing will be given. I don't know the cause of these rounds of attacks, but if it was a person, or group of people, looking to specifically target FFXIV to gain free things, they'd only be positively rewarded for their efforts.

If SE were inclined to give any type of handouts, though, I'd simply ask for a fully capped week of tomestones of genesis at the start of a fresh week. Just a heads-up on the front page to make sure it won't push you over the hard-cap limit would be a pleasant gesture. Something humble.
10-29-2018, 09:31 PM
Maero

I had to re-install the game at one point due to the launch window being bugged out after an update. For a month i had issues with the unable to download patch... error and after multiple times trying to re-download and trying various things and told SE about this, yeah i never got anything
Point is good luck, i have yet to see anyone get any time compensation. DDOS is a different matter, many are affected and not sure what can be done

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