The Difficulty Has Not Increased In Casual Content.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

You must be getting absolutely godly geared groups then, because every single time I get it, the dragon lasts quite awhile after the dive bomb phase.

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I wouldn't exactly call people like a BLM in Bonewicca pants using a 350 weapon and various other 360 pieces "godly geared". I go on SMN most of the time and even I only have two pieces of 370 gear on it, everything else is 360 and below.

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Originally Posted by YojimboM

I wouldn't exactly call people like a BLM in Bonewicca pants using a 350 weapon and various other 360 pieces "godly geared". I go on SMN most of the time and even I only have two pieces of 370 gear on it, everything else is 360 and below.

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I don't know, then. But I know the last 5-6 times I got the Dragon (all of my Experts have been The Burn save one), it always lasts past the dive-bomb phase, clear into the "chain-cast Rime Wreath" phase.

DPS' health ranges from 43k to 47k in most instances. I saw a 49k on a brd once.

Today was the first time that any group I've been in managed to beat it with no wipes, and while it went down slightly faster, it still lasted past the deep fog phase.

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Originally Posted by Fredco191

Oh. I just suck then?




Damn... :c

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Feel free to join Club Couldn't Hack It. We meet on Tuesdays.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

If "casual" players need the current dungeons to be easier, then they need to consider if battle content is for them. There is crafting/gathering/housing/gold saucer and other non battle activities for those who don't want to participate.

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See, the battle content IS for them because the MSQ is the one piece of the game everyone is required to do as there is not just battle content locked behind progressing in it. You want to craft and gather for new areas? You need to do MSQ. You want a house in the new areas? You need to do MSQ. You want new Triple Triad cards? MSQ. You like to collect music and minions? Some are quest rewards in MSQ.

MSQ dungeons like The Burn need to keep in mind the experience and skill levels of all players because those players can't enjoy the game in their chosen manner without it. And if they can't enjoy the game, then why stay?

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

See, the battle content IS for them because the MSQ is the one piece of the game everyone is required to do as there is not just battle content locked behind progressing in it. You want to craft and gather for new areas? You need to do MSQ. You want a house in the new areas? You need to do MSQ. You want new Triple Triad cards? MSQ. You like to collect music and minions? Some are quest rewards in MSQ.

MSQ dungeons like The Burn need to keep in mind the experience and skill levels of all players because those players can't enjoy the game in their chosen manner without it. And if they can't enjoy the game, then why stay?

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I mean technically crafters and gatherers with no interest in battle content could just ignore everything MSQ-related from 4.1 until 4.55 and then burn through it in higher iL gear for the expansion, since no crafting and gathering content is locked behind the story after 4.0.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

The Mist Dragon is the only boss I know of in the game that is certain guaranteed death, or all but if the healer gets hit with the AoE.

It does 60% or more of a healer's health in damage at ~350-355 iLevel, and it stuns them for 5-6 seconds, and it puts a DoT that does ~15% health per tick. 3 ticks is death if they did not have a HoT on them at the time.

I don't know of any other MSQ boss that can do anywhere near that much damage in that short of time. No RDM/SMN/PLD = you're done if the healer gets hit with it.

Also, it spams group-wide AoE in fairly quick succession. Rime Wreath is unavoidable and oftentimes right after other AoEs, such as the ice breath (which also puts that ludicrously OP DoT on anybody it hits), the star AoE can oftentimes overlaps and only has a 1.5-ish tell that doesn't give you enough time to get out of it if two of them overlap (which happens rather often). It, too, does the whole cheap Stun+DoT.

No other MSQ boss comes close to this difficulty.

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Can't quite agree with you there. Middy in Keeper of the Lake was rage-inducing when he was new content. As well as the entirety of the Vault. Those were both MSQ dungeons that put healers through hell.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

I mean technically crafters and gatherers with no interest in battle content could just ignore everything MSQ-related from 4.1 until 4.55 and then burn through it in higher iL gear for the expansion, since no crafting and gathering content is locked behind the story after 4.0.

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And how long would that take them when the expansion drops? In the meantime, they're falling behind in leveling their gatherers and crafters into the next tier. It would be an incredibly bad business decision on SE's part for their solution to be "Sorry, you'll just have to play catch up at the beginning of each expansion because the regular players think the MSQ isn't challenging enough for them while you struggle to get through it."

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

And how long would that take them when the expansion drops? In the meantime, they're falling behind in leveling their gatherers and crafters into the next tier. It would be an incredibly bad business decision on SE's part for their solution to be "Sorry, you'll just have to play catch up at the beginning of each expansion because the regular players think the MSQ isn't challenging enough for them while you struggle to get through it."

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You have 6 months between the release of the last batch of story quests and the expansion, that should be more than enough time to catch up considering the MSQ in each patch takes maybe 2 hours at most.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

You have 6 months between the release of the last batch of story quests and the expansion, that should be more than enough time to catch up considering the MSQ in each patch takes maybe 2 hours at most.

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Or people who don't think the MSQ is challenging enough can suck it up and deal and find their challenge in the myriad amount of optional content in the game. I certainly don't go looking for my challenge in the MSQ. I look for it in optional dungeons, EX trials, and 8-man and 24-man raids.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Or people who don't think the MSQ is challenging enough can suck it up and deal and find their challenge in the myriad amount of optional content in the game. I certainly don't go looking for my challenge in the MSQ. I look for it in optional dungeons, EX trials, and 8-man and 24-man raids.

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I was merely saying that crafters and gatherers not interested in battle content being stuck isn't a valid enough reason to not up the MSQ difficulty in my opinion.

I've never been one to push for MSQ difficulty but I don't exactly mind it either.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

See, the battle content IS for them because the MSQ is the one piece of the game everyone is required to do as there is not just battle content locked behind progressing in it. You want to craft and gather for new areas? You need to do MSQ. You want a house in the new areas? You need to do MSQ. You want new Triple Triad cards? MSQ. You like to collect music and minions? Some are quest rewards in MSQ.

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And I bet that everyone complaining about the burn has beaten it. Its not a dungeon boss that prevents progression, its just a little bit more difficult than usual. Anyone that thinks its too hard can be content with their MSQ progression and never do the dungeon again.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

And I bet that everyone complaining about the burn has beaten it. Its not a dungeon boss that prevents progression, its just a little bit more difficult than usual. Anyone that thinks its too hard can be content with their MSQ progression and never do the dungeon again.

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B-but muh free tomestones from expert roulette!

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

See, the battle content IS for them because the MSQ is the one piece of the game everyone is required to do as there is not just battle content locked behind progressing in it. You want to craft and gather for new areas? You need to do MSQ. You want a house in the new areas? You need to do MSQ. You want new Triple Triad cards? MSQ. You like to collect music and minions? Some are quest rewards in MSQ.

MSQ dungeons like The Burn need to keep in mind the experience and skill levels of all players because those players can't enjoy the game in their chosen manner without it. And if they can't enjoy the game, then why stay?

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Mist dragon isn't a level of difficulty that's unreasonable to expect from anyone, in any playstyle, rocking 350 gear. You earn the gear, you better know how to use it.

If people feel it's too much for them, and decide to leave, then let me be the first to ask them: can I have your stuff?

I'm actually not sure if it's a difficulty increase this patch so much as there being more standard bosses having absolutely punishing mechanics due to a good number of players not having the reaction times of the typical robots you see clearing savage on day one. Mist Dragon, while a relatively decent example of this, does have a workaround for at least a couple of the major "do it or your dead" mechanics that it has. Same could be said of the DDR primal, although fortunately it only has to be done once on normal before either going to extreme or just not caring about it.

Then there are mechanics like StarLarboard from Omega, where I just expect to be dead because I know I'll never be able to react fast enough to it after trying to figure out 1) what's starboard/what's larboard, 2) is it his right or my right and 3) is that his head or his butt and having to move all in the span of less than two seconds while trying to figure out things like "why couldn't they do a better visual indicator for that mechanic" or "what dev thought that mechanic was a good idea for NON-SAVAGE content".

Ultimately, I like the current difficulty we have this patch, but some mechanics need to be a bit more forgiving. Something to show that human beings are actually testing this content rather than sim bots (which I'm still convinced is how they test jobs for the game).

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

Then there are mechanics like StarLarboard from Omega, where I just expect to be dead because I know I'll never be able to react fast enough to it after trying to figure out 1) what's starboard/what's larboard, 2) is it his right or my right and 3) is that his head or his butt and having to move all in the span of less than two seconds while trying to figure out things like "why couldn't they do a better visual indicator for that mechanic" or "what dev thought that mechanic was a good idea for NON-SAVAGE content".

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StarLar confused the heck out of me the first time, I don't mind admitting. What I did as melee is hang around behind him on my right hand side. Lar = don't move (safe). Then the opposite side is Lar = safe. I can still get the second one mixed up occasionally, but always works for the first and that's enough to guarantee not dying.

I both hated the mechanic at first and sort of like the idea of it now.