Seriously? No mail box?

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Originally Posted by coldviper18

I'm not "mad" at anything. They overcomplicated the game from the start. Even if he was forced to push it faster. Nobody liked the idea of these new classes. Everyone wanted their monk, warrior, dragoon, summoner, ect... Why go through all the trouble to make theses jobs what they did. Same reason, why do they need to rename every race? Whats the point? There isn't one, which pisses me off to no end. There's a reason people have followed the classic final fantasies from the beginning. We love the job system that they've always had and always followed. Why stray from it now when you've been so successful before? It's stupid marketing for one. And the beginning of a bad game.

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Game wasn't bad because of the race names. That's just silly to even suggest. Classes - perhaps. Even then, their names or even design philosophies weren't a major problem. There's a long list of reasons why FFXIV had a horrible launch. The ones you just mentioned are minor pet-peeves at best.

Regardless, any argument pertaining to the crappy launch of FFXIV is moot at this point. Just beating a dead horse. Everyone knows FFXIV was crap at launch. It's drudging along trying barely to get better ever since, and will continue in such a state until 2.0. Simply how it is. Raging over what's done and past is useless.

To say they are almost always different is clearly fooling yourself. The jobs are always similar in most ways. The summons have always been similar in most ways and hold their nostalgic value. They make changes the combat system and different ways to customize, but it's still always been the same concept.

If I really cared enough I could go through every single final fantasy and point out that they've always had the same jobs that always had the same similar concepts. Unfortunately, it is pointless if you are seriously kidding yourself, that they aren't. Have you even played any of the earlier final fantasies? Like, before 7?

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Originally Posted by coldviper18

To say they are almost always different is clearly fooling yourself. The jobs are always similar in most ways. The summons have always been similar in most ways and hold their nostalgic value. They make changes the combat system and different ways to customize, but it's still always been the same concept.

If I really cared enough I could go through every single final fantasy and point out that they've always had the same jobs that always had the same similar concepts. Unfortunately, it is pointless if you are seriously kidding yourself, that they aren't. Have you even played any of the earlier final fantasies? Like, before 7?

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Show me a fantasy based games which doesn't rely on those sterotypical classes.

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Originally Posted by coldviper18

To say they are almost always different is clearly fooling yourself. The jobs are always similar in most ways. The summons have always been similar in most ways and hold their nostalgic value. They make changes the combat system and different ways to customize, but it's still always been the same concept.

If I really cared enough I could go through every single final fantasy and point out that they've always had the same jobs that always had the same similar concepts. Unfortunately, it is pointless if you are seriously kidding yourself, that they aren't. Have you even played any of the earlier final fantasies? Like, before 7?

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Earlier FF games created the jobs we know as classic today. With newer FF iterations many of the titles came with ambiguous renditions of jobs, some with no clear job system at all. Some, like XII and XIII, already have new and unique names for some/all of their version of jobs/classes.

So no, it is not new to XIV to present with new names for classes. What matters primarily are the skills and how they are presented. We have staples such as elemental attacks named in the classes FF nomenclature and various others that pay homage to and carry on with skills of previous FF titles such as Cure, Raise, Throw, Pummel, etc. We're further getting job skills such as Jump, Cover, and ancient magic - not to mention the job names are that of classic ones.

How you can insist that the class names FFXIV got was a major detriment to its success is beyond me, what with recent FF titles like XIII sporting names such as Commando, Ravager and Medic. Don't even bring up the FFXIII doesn't count argument, or even try to say it was bad because of those class names.

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Originally Posted by Blitz0309

Should it take 2 years to have some form of item/gil delivery? Saying "its comming in... 10 months" doesn't really explain why it would be missing for the first 14.

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How's this for ya?

The original team screwed up and launched the game too early. Because of this there were many incomplete or just awful systems in place. After a few months the original producer was removed from his position and Yoshida was put in his place. In order to fix all the issues with the game Yoshida decided it essentially needed to be rebuilt from the ground up. However because of how poorly the game was originally coded this proved to be much tougher than anticipated and a lot of things simply couldn't be implemented with the game as is. So they then set out to have part of the team develop a version 2.0 complete with a new server system and graphics engine. However because these systems are so integral to the operation of the game, many features could not be implemented until these new systems go live with the release of 2.0. The mailbox is one of those features, that's why it's been missing.

Since when did you get a mailbox when sleeping over at the Holiday Inn?

That stuff doesnt make sense until personal housing is available. Patience, grasshopper.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Since when did you get a mailbox when sleeping over at the Holiday Inn?

That stuff doesnt make sense until personal housing is available. Patience, grasshopper.

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Um, if you get something sent to you at Holiday Inn, you can retrieve it from the front desk. I should know; I've had notes and other delivered items at an extended stay during vacations....

see now youre splitting hairs, lol. the topic was mailboxes.

Function is lacking, we all know that. I was just pointing out what seemed to me to be obvious based on the OP topic name.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

see now youre splitting hairs, lol. the topic was mailboxes.

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Sorry if the "truth" is splitting hairs. These are basically "inns" and for you to say "inns" don't retrieve mail for people when they actually do, isn't splitting hairs.

Thanks for over-paraphrasing. Thats not what I said.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

Dude, don't you white knight this thing. The game was obviously released in alpha state. There wasn't an option to organize your inventory. That says it all.
There's no mailing system not because of a fault in design, but because they released the game way way way too early.

And atm I'd rather have them make other gazillion more important stuff its missing than a mail system that'd only good for players who want to use two characters (because anima + trade = mailing system).

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What he said is true and top of that i been playing this game sense release and sure a mail system would be great but so far i have not yet needed such a thing and i may not even need it. Never really use it in ffxi only when i'm in a low level class and did not want to take the long airship to jeuno to buy a item so i told a friend to buy it for me and i send the money. But in ffxiv is there a problem like that? nope i can get the airship or teleport and be there within 1sec-5min of my time.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Earlier FF games created the jobs we know as classic today. With newer FF iterations many of the titles came with ambiguous renditions of jobs, some with no clear job system at all. Some, like XII and XIII, already have new and unique names for some/all of their version of jobs/classes.

So no, it is not new to XIV to present with new names for classes. What matters primarily are the skills and how they are presented. We have staples such as elemental attacks named in the classes FF nomenclature and various others that pay homage to and carry on with skills of previous FF titles such as Cure, Raise, Throw, Pummel, etc. We're further getting job skills such as Jump, Cover, and ancient magic - not to mention the job names are that of classic ones.

How you can insist that the class names FFXIV got was a major detriment to its success is beyond me, what with recent FF titles like XIII sporting names such as Commando, Ravager and Medic. Don't even bring up the FFXIII doesn't count argument, or even try to say it was bad because of those class names.

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^^^
This... exactly
Jobs have been mixed... matched... mashed up... added, left out... undefined and redefined in just about every title....
Every final fantasy is someone else' vision of what each job is...
Case and Point: Games that include a summoner, that character is usually also a white mage
Khimari was a dragoon and also Blue Mage
Everyone was a summoner in FFVII
Lightning is a roughly Red Mage only because she is a hybrid of so many different things
Wakka kicked a damn Ball
FFVI had Mimes and Yetis....
Come on people... Im not asking you all to actually think outside the box... I know thats lunacy...
All Im asking is that you don't condemn someone else when they DO think outside the box....

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Classes - perhaps. Even then, their names or even design philosophies weren't a major problem.

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Lol, which FFXIV are you playing? Because in the one I am playing, the classes and their design philosophies were so bad that they're having to essentially scrap the whole thing.

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Don't even bring up the FFXIII doesn't count argument

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It does count-- as a perfect example of what not to do.

Who gets mail at an Inn?

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Originally Posted by Sidious

Lol, which FFXIV are you playing? Because in the one I am playing, the classes and their design philosophies were so bad that they're having to essentially scrap the whole thing.

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Their designs were bad. Not because of their names. Their naming being non-traditional had nothing to do with it. Currently classes maintain their original names and are much better designed. Nice try lol.

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It does count-- as a perfect example of what not to do.

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Great opinion there. Reason I referred to it is due to it being a numbered iteration of the FF series, and it predating XIV. While meeting these conditions, it also had names given Roles - to its rendition of classes/jobs - that were brand new.

Set aside the fact that not everyone hated that game, and that it sold quite well as a successful game - and that it's sequel XIII-2 uses the same Roles and is a solid RPG by any standard - any hate and/or disappointment towards XIII did not stem from their coice of names for the Roles. There were reasons to hate that game. The names of the roles were not a legitimate reason for it's failure. The semantics argument is getting old.

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Originally Posted by Sidious

Lol, which FFXIV are you playing? Because in the one I am playing, the classes and their design philosophies were so bad that they're having to essentially scrap the whole thing.



It does count-- as a perfect example of what not to do.

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^ What he said.
Only reason I even mention names of jobs and races is because thats exactly where the problem started. I would put my life on it, that if they just had made this FFXI - 2, with the better graphics, and some new interface and a new world it would have done way better than it did. My point is that they over complicated things from the start which made it undesirable completely. And it all started with naming the jobs and races.

Even though FFXI is old, with new graphics and a new world, I would be head over heals with a new mithra thief with amazing graphics and whole new content to explore. Instead, I have a Miqo'te? Archer thats eventually going to grow a strong desire to sign up for american idol? OK............

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Originally Posted by Sidious

Lol, which FFXIV are you playing? Because in the one I am playing, the classes and their design philosophies were so bad that they're having to essentially scrap the whole thing.



It does count-- as a perfect example of what not to do.

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^ Fruitless opinions. Since when did they scrap the whole Armoury System? They're merely tweaking it to suit future needs better; classes are still here. The Job System is just an overlay towards the Armoury System, not a replacement. Their designs were not bad at all; you may as well have called the sub-job system of FFXI equally bad as well, because the Armoury system is essentially the sub-job system except more diverse. The overhaul they did last patch? Was not a 'scrap'; they kept what made the Armoury System unique, and merely changed the abilities, not the concept. And asides from CNJ and THM, the other classes didn't go much of a large reconstruction. They certainly didn't scrap the idea behind classes at all.

And for all it's changes, the FFXIII system worked well in a tactical manner. But....if you set yourself up to hate it, you'll hate it.

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Originally Posted by Sidious

Lol, which FFXIV are you playing? Because in the one I am playing, the classes and their design philosophies were so bad that they're having to essentially scrap the whole thing.

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I disagree with saying the launch classes were philosophical disasters
I personally thought they were well conceived but poorly executed. Tweaks were needed but overall I thought they had the right idea
I pose this:
what if each base class stayed just as vague and formless as they were at launch... but had progression trees where they branched into more specific roles

Thaum had low level heals, debuffs, nukes and Dots (I'll admit, they should have versions not nearly as powerful as they were originally given)
In terms of Jobs... what if one branch of Thaum went the way of the Ossuary with Dark Arts... and the other went the way of the Sacrarium, light or Life arts
then the dark thaum branched to DoT specialist or Battle Mage with TP moves
While the light thaum went with either Sacrifice heals or Dia/Holy Nukes
thats 4 specializations that could have each been given a name just from Thaum as a base class

the problem with Jobs is they want to have multiple jobs for each class....
and Jobs specialize. but how can you specialize in something with a job that the classes NEVER did...

If Jobs are indeed a specialization... then classes could have... and in fact... should have been kept extremely general.

I pose this to you... as it stands now... Jobs are NO MORE SPECIALIZED than the current classes....
Glads do 1 thing... TANK..... Paladin will do 1 thing... guess what that is?
Conjurers do 1 thing.... and yea.. you guessed it.. WHM does that same 1 thing....
with the way classes were changed in 1.20.... we don't need Jobs...we just need those 5 abilities
they are not specializations... they are continuations of what we've been doing with the classes

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Originally Posted by coldviper18

^ What he said.
Only reason I even mention names of jobs and races is because thats exactly where the problem started. I would put my life on it, that if they just had made this FFXI - 2, with the better graphics, and some new interface and a new world it would have done way better than it did. My point is that they over complicated things from the start which made it undesirable completely. And it all started with naming the jobs and races.

Even though FFXI is old, with new graphics and a new world, I would be head over heals with a new mithra thief with amazing graphics and whole new content to explore. Instead, I have a Miqo'te? Archer thats eventually going to grow a strong desire to sign up for american idol? OK............

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If they wanted XI-2, they would have made XI-2. When they make a new numbered iteration, SE tends to explore new design options.

As for the classes being designed poorly, I won't disagree. It is already accepted XIV had many faults. A lot of ambitious ideas that didn't quite work out. I've simply been responding to your arguments along the lines of their names and or staple designs. Not every FF game has to have the classic, traditional jobs. In fact, most numbered iterations do not.

Well conceived and poorly executed, as Rydin said above me, best expresses my feelings for the state of classes before the changes that patches brought.

Just to add to my first post on this thread.

This is from the old dev team from back in November 11th 2010 - http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...f018ec5fb504d2

Pretty sure some of you forgot about this one lol... anyways in here under Markets and Retainers for first 2011 they did have "The addition of a delivery service" but soon after YoshiP and them took over the team looked over all of the promises the old team have made and made it clear that some features were not possible due to the server structure and mail system was one of them. I thought they mentioned this in Topics as well but can't find it.

Now I look through that list there are some other interesting stuff but I try to ignore for now, personally I think YoshiP and them are doing great on the updates and as long as 2.0 comes out on time I'm cool with it. There was this list + another one but I forget... lol

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Originally Posted by coldviper18

Like really? I hope the original developer lives in a box in the freezing cold and is starving to death. How in the world, can someone make so many bad decisions on a game that was supposed to be epic?

Every time I try to convince myself oh, this game isn't so bad I'll try it out again I find a flurry of different things that just blow my mind that they somehow made it passed management...

I really don't like my mithra(or whatever the hell stupid complicated name they decided on), so I decided maybe a new character would be cool, so I go for an elven(again whatever stupid unnecessary complicated name they came up with) but I can't stand the lancer starting gear, so I make a maurader with the plans to mail myself some money and gear to go lancer. BUT THERE'S NO MAIL SYSTEM!? WHAT THE CRAP!

It is unbelievable the amount of garbage I find every single time I try to play this thing....

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I don't think it's the lack of a "mail" system that you are upset about... and an Elezen stuck inside the body of an Miqo'te is something many players deal with... you'll cope...

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Originally Posted by AngryNixon

Hello old topic,

How have you been? How's the wife and kids? Really? Oh... I'm sorry to hear that. She re-married who you say? Best friend, huh... that sucks. You're son won't talk to you? Falling out.. I see. Well it's been fun catching up. Let's do it again in a few months.

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I think it is relevant to bring this up after they post the details of the housing, not sure why it shouldnt ...

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

it's funny that you say that. look back at the patch notes. the mail system was in the patch notes to have been in tanaka's march 2011 update. too bad he was removed and it will be 2 years later that we get it.

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Exactly, I wonder how the game would be now if Tanaka was still in charge...

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Originally Posted by Jinko

TBH I would rather wait 10 months and have a decent mail system than the horrendous trash that FF11 had.

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What was wrong with FF11 mailbox system? You send stuff and recieve it in your moghouse... can it be more efficient?

Coldviper, try to give some constructive criticism. Offer suggestions on ways you think they could fix it instead of merely complaining.

Because all I'm getting from your posts is that you hate the game. The race names really aren't complicated, and the fact that you're whining about them is just pointless rage. Maybe another game would be better for you.

The mods should just make a sticky that takes up half of the first page stating "BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMETHING IN THE GAME READ HERE TO SEE IF YOUR PROBLEM IS BEING ADDRESSED OR NOT"

What am I saying? These people would ignore that sticky and continue to bitch anyways.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

The mods should just make a sticky that takes up half of the first page stating "BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMETHING IN THE GAME READ HERE TO SEE IF YOUR PROBLEM IS BEING ADDRESSED OR NOT"

What am I saying? These people would ignore that sticky and continue to bitch anyways.

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They are more likely to read it...but bitch anyway.
lol

I receive mails with small gifts every day from people I have rescued or soldiers I have helped (NPC). Mail boxes also look real, they are near pubs or coffee bars and I can see from far if there's something new for me. Also other players send mails sometimes - everybody don't like that I'm not to PVP. But not in this game yet.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

The mods should just make a sticky that takes up half of the first page stating "BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMETHING IN THE GAME READ HERE TO SEE IF YOUR PROBLEM IS BEING ADDRESSED OR NOT"

What am I saying? These people would ignore that sticky and continue to bitch anyways.

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To be honest... what is the player housing now? A private cinema...
You can't do anything else there (I doubt they will implement furnishing etc yet either)
If you don't want people to complain about yet again unfinished "update" then delay the update and make it proper (imo!).

Hey guess what? It's February (dumbest month of the year because of the extra r) 2012

You are paying for this game right?

In other words, get used to it or GTFO.

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Originally Posted by Mamba

I think it is relevant to bring this up after they post the details of the housing, not sure why it shouldnt ...



Exactly, I wonder how the game would be now if Tanaka was still in charge...



What was wrong with FF11 mailbox system? You send stuff and recieve it in your moghouse... can it be more efficient?

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The problem isn't the idea or the delivery system concept. It's the craptastic server structure and game coding. Just cause Tanaka planned on having delivery by March 2011, doesn't mean he would have delivered, or the system would have been anywhere near the functional standard any of us would expect. Ignorance is bliss.

As for stuff like crafting in the Inns, the point is you beginning accumulating rested bonus as soon as you enter the room. Crafting in there with indefinite exp bonus would he quite unbalanced.

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Originally Posted by Mamba

To be honest... what is the player housing now? A private cinema...
You can't do anything else there (I doubt they will implement furnishing etc yet either)
If you don't want people to complain about yet again unfinished "update" then delay the update and make it proper (imo!).

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What we're getting now are player inns. Not housing. Official housing comes in 2.0. Read up before complaining at least.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

What we're getting now are player inns. Not housing. Official housing comes in 2.0. Read up before complaining at least.

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In fact... the thread is called:
Thread: [dev1301] Private Player Residences

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Originally Posted by Mamba

What was wrong with FF11 mailbox system? You send stuff and recieve it in your moghouse... can it be more efficient?

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Go play any other MMO and you will understand.

First you can only send 8 items at a time, you can't send more items until the person on the other side takes those items out.

Example being that if I wanted to send 16 items to my mule I would have to send 8 items log off, log into mule take out items, log off, log into main and send another 8 items, log out and take those 8 items out.

Take WoW for example (or pretty much any other mmo), I can send 100's of mails with a message and up to 20 stacked items all in one message.

The Red Dot is actually Blue...

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Originally Posted by Matsume

The Red Dot is actually Blue...

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LS leader is colour-blind. /jk

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Go play any other MMO and you will understand.

First you can only send 8 items at a time, you can't send more items until the person on the other side takes those items out.

Example being that if I wanted to send 16 items to my mule I would have to send 8 items log off, log into mule take out items, log off, log into main and send another 8 items, log out and take those 8 items out.

Take WoW for example (or pretty much any other mmo), I can send 100's of mails with a message and up to 20 stacked items all in one message.

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Ah ok, I see your point.
I haven't really played much other games so I wouldn't know, thanks for enlighting me :)

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Originally Posted by Masamune1004

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/...twopointoh.png

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I love how this is the answer to most questions about this game.

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Originally Posted by Mrfox0707

I love how this is the answer to most questions about this game.

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Yeah..let us hope it lives up to what they been telling us. ><

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

The problem isn't the idea or the delivery system concept. It's the craptastic server structure and game coding. Just cause Tanaka planned on having delivery by March 2011, doesn't mean he would have delivered, or the system would have been anywhere near the functional standard any of us would expect. Ignorance is bliss.

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and just because you don't think it would have been does not mean it would not have been. the whole limitations that can't be handled until 2.0 sounds very familiar. oh that's because the was used in xi for years. does anyone remember "we cannot add extra inventory space due to ps2 limitations" that all of a sudden they were able to add it after a long time even with those limitations.

this reminds me of that scenario. in other words "we don't feel like it's something we want to work on so we'll tell them we can't do it right now"

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Originally Posted by Mamba

In fact... the thread is called:
Thread: [dev1301] Private Player Residences

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I'm quite aware of what this thread is called. I'm also aware of what is being discussed at present. I responded to your implication that what we're getting is some incomplete content in 1.21 - whereas it's not. It is something different from the housing we will get in 2.0. Sort of like the rental chocobo is to the personal chocobo.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

and just because you don't think it would have been does not mean it would not have been. the whole limitations that can't be handled until 2.0 sounds very familiar. oh that's because the was used in xi for years. does anyone remember "we cannot add extra inventory space due to ps2 limitations" that all of a sudden they were able to add it after a long time even with those limitations.

this reminds me of that scenario. in other words "we don't feel like it's something we want to work on so we'll tell them we can't do it right now"

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Those darn SE conspirators. Always feeding us BS about how they can't do stuff when they actually can. All they wanna do is take the cost-effective route, like rebuilding the game separately while also maintaining the current version all while charging a discounted sub fee.

Silly SE, they should just put in the delivery system. Takes like 5 minutes and half a dev anyway.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Those darn SE conspirators. Always feeding us BS about how they can't do stuff when they actually can. All they wanna do is take the cost-effective route, like rebuilding the game separately while also maintaining the current version all while charging a discounted sub fee.

Silly SE, they should just put in the delivery system. Takes like 5 minutes and half a dev anyway.

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i'm not saying that is what they are doing at all. all i said is this seems to be along the same lines of what was done in xi.

anytime someone mentions something it's "wait until 2.0 because 1.x cannot handle it". in xi it was "we cannot add this because ps2 cannot handle it".

no matter what is discussed at this point in time we can all start using that wait until 2.0 picture before the dev responds because that will be their response anyways.

i'm not saying anything can or cannot be done with the structure in place now. what i am saying is it seems to be the same common response given then. if something is not a priority to them i have more respect just being told the truth. part of the issue people have is one group not only said something was possible, but even had it scheduled in when it would be released and the other said it's not possible at all.