Now that we know SE is listening, here's how to "fix" Pagos.

Sure, I have some ideas that I feel would improve Pagos. At least the first two of these ideas that I'm about to share may or may not be the biggest two improvements, depending on whom you ask:

Lower the Health Pools of All Non-NM Mobs
The monsters are damage sponges, even at the same level and using the dominant elements to our advantage. In a slower paced game, this might not be as big of a deal (though such a game would not appeal to me, personally). In a faster-paced combat like we have in FFXIV, it gets to be painful on the wrists, fingers, and our minds as we pound away at practical garbage, which offers next to nothing in the way of mechanics. But wait, there's more! This is a MMO. As surprised as anyone might be to read or hear this, some of us like social interaction, some of us like to save or help others when we can, and some of us have lives that may or may not throw last-second obligations or emergencies. If anyone so much as takes their hand off a keyboard or controller because they need to cover their face to sneeze, and a button is missed, then Exp Chains can, have, and probably will break. I have seen, on three different viewpoints, when a party is so caught up in trying to nail its Chain that they are unable to resurrect someone just a stone's throw away. I should also note here the the majority of people who say they like Pagos--not all, but certainly a large sum--tend to be the same people who chat with their friends on something like Discord. In-game written chat? That's next to empty aside from the gains from monsters dying. So! I figure a good reduction would be a minimum 15% of HP for all monsters outside of Notorious Monster FATEs. This should help if one person dies, someone disconnects or instantly leaves while the party is around Chain #25, or a Red Mage has to walk off all of ten to twenty yalms to do their sacred duty of resurrecting random strangers; AND it should give a little room to maneuver or breathe. One eighth of 100% is 12.5, but account for talk or pull times, or a couple quick seconds to recover MP... so 15% or more. Also, don't go reducing Chain timers or Exp as a result, especially not the former, or that would defeat the purpose.

Party-Player Syncing
Level disparities are a thing. When the unintended NM Trains began in Anemos, this issue was still present for people JUST joining Eureka and trying to find a party. Right now as trains aren't a thing in Pagos, the disparity is too apparent. Someone in the mid to high 20s might take too long to find a party because everyone else is too high or low for them. We, as a playerbase, have asked for this seemingly simple solution since Anemos, and the response Yoshida gave indicated that he might not have fully understood what we're asking for. So let me explain what I mean by this syncing feature.

This is a system of several names depending on what game you look at. "City of Heroes/Villains" had its Sidekick System. FFXI implemented something similar long after I left it for CoX. Basically the idea is that lower level players can sync upward, higher levels can sync down, or the system can allow both on varied situations. I brought this up in a few places including my fc chat, and so far the one person (let's call him Bob H. for the rest of my long post) shouting that this wouldn't work tried telling me that everyone would just stay in the lower level areas of Pagos and level up there. No. His anecdote his false, and I have witnessed its falsehood firsthand in other games, including CoX. Everywhere else that I have been reading or I've been able to bring this concept up? It is seen as an absolute must-have in Pagos. The Level 27 player, let's say, in an instance full of 22-33s and 31-35s, would then have an option to join up or down as long as they're in a party (or, if you REALLY like to over-complicate things, as long as both partied and within a reasonable range of influence).

Increase the Spawn Rates of Notorious Monsters
Let's address the elephant in the room. We know how much you, the developers, do not like the Notorious Monster Trains that began in Anemos. Some of us saw them as fun. Some of us saw them as an opportunity to go AFK to seek out something that actually was entertaining. And some of us were bored out of our minds waiting for something to kill. This was a mixed bag, and for good reason. However, before the trains began, take a look at everyone's reactions to Anemos upon its release; Japanese or American, Official Forums or Reddit or Youtube. Oh, we got a taste of Eureka as you developers intended, and many of us hated it so much back then. We still hate the intended way now with Pagos, especially now as it seems so forced.

This is counter-intuitive as well. The NMs only give so many Pagos Crystals, and we need 500 per each of FIFTEEN RELIC WEAPONS. Weapons, I might add, that are going to be outdated in about a month. We need a regular flow of crystals, especially for those of us who like to hunt for glamours or achievements. Some of us also have more than one job that we love to play, and so we need to be more expedient in getting the best weapons we can on those jobs. Some of us don't hardcore raid, so THE RELICS ARE OUR BEST BET. And yet, the Pagos crystals come in at such a rate that a few of us might have enough for one weapon by the time we hit level 35, and many others have to grind even more.

My buddy Bob H., remember my mention of him, tried picking an unwanted argument with me saying that NM grinding is still feasible. However, timers are unreliable at the moment since some instances instantly recycle. Someone going into a seemingly fresh instance will be sorely disappointed when a NM does not spawn, because the instance is not so "fresh." You see, the lowered spawn rates actually accentuate an issue that was around in Anemos, but hardly anyone noticed. Sometimes instances won't have such a clean slate as to what will spawn after so many mobs have been slain. Additionally, when the timer finally does refresh, the people who killed those mobs are gone, the timer will have dwindled some, and people coming in will have to hurry across the zone to get to that spot, only to find that not enough people are there to fight the higher level NM (oops). So no, NM farming is not so feasible at the moment.

It's clear that Pagos was designed against the trains just running across at any time, and that should be almost enough. The only other things you need is for the regular monster slaying to be less tedious and more rewarding, less beefy even (look at my first point), and the party-player syncing. The trains in Anemos formed out of necessity to break away from the mob grind and issue with level discrepancies, despite whatever non-sensical thing Bob H. tried to tell me that I don't even remember. Do the first two things I mentioned, and you won't have to worry about trains wrecking your content that you designed if you bring the spawn rates back up even halfway, I guarantee it.

Reduce the Required Level of Northwest Aetheryte
The current requirement is level 30. The mobs surrounding the area are generally farmed by groups in the mid-to-upper 20s, as well the spot for 23-25s to farm is just past the sleeping dragon to the east. Starting at level 25, players have a point of interest nearby (I won't spoil it) that they need to reach, and will probably want to revisit time and again not long after hitting 25. Level 27 would be a perfect change to this, in my honest opinion. It's in that farming range, and it's when that point of interest should be revisited. If you eventually double (or greater) the amount of light given--as you basically always do--by mobs and NMs then this will only become doubly apparent, and the need to go back to that spot at level 27 will increase so players can take full advantage of what they have.

Cut Those Sleeping Dragons Down in Level
They are level 40. Yes, the danger is great and novel at first for lower 20s trying to explore, or trying to get to the northern half of the map for any reason. By level 25, those same dragons are just a nuisance and waste of time as long as we slow walk and DON'T CAST ANYTHING. If you make those sleeping dragons Lv30, or even 32, then their presence will not overstay their welcome. On a slightly related note...

Either Prune or Move a Few Mobs
Especially in that canyon of death with most of the sleeping dragons there are so many monsters. Too often it feels like a waiting game for them to turn around so parties can finally pass by and get that much closer to the spot they're farming at. As a result, sometimes a NM will spawn moments after the farm begins, so the party has to choose between sacrificing their chain to go do the Notorious Monster, thus resulting in needing to make that same trek once, twice, possibly thrice more, versus staying where they are and missing out on much needed Pagos Crystals, good exp, and a decent amount of light. Please make it easier to traverse this obvious choking point on the map so people can more easily get to and from their farming locations. Combine with the Aetheryte fix, and suddenly the mob farming will be more feasible since that much less has to be given up. Again, as mentioned earlier, the trains should not be necessary.

Actually Raise the Exp and Improve Chain Timers
You don't need to do anything too crazy here, especially if all of the above are done. The idea is that killing mobs needs to feel rewarding without being strenuous. If people wanted to put so much time and effort into their weapons that are good for the current patch then chances are that they would hardcore raid. Just as the 24man raids are a fine source of equal-to-tome gear for alt jobs catching up, the relics shouldn't take so long to earn that they cease to matter once the average, casual player finally gets one. That said, Exp can use a small boost, as well higher Chains can use such rewards as a greater chance at earning light. This point might be the least necessary, so it's up to you if you want to do this along with everything else I stated until now.

In short, Pagos needs help. Most of us know this. Don't be like that Bob H. guy who says this form of content is good as it is. It might be engaging to some, and fun might be relative, but rubbing our faces up and down a cheese grater is engaging and totally unhealthy, no matter who might think they like the experience. o_O

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

No, he wants to bring back the one thing that made the grind bearable, that a (seemingly vocal) minority complained about. I prefer the grinds that you mentioned, over the current Pagos mob grind.

Besides, what's the point of making a grindy step and adding it just over a month away from a major patch that increases the iLvl on combat gear? If you grind enough, you might get 3 weeks of 'enjoyment' out of it (even though there's other options), before you can just grab a better weapon off the new primal (or another crafter, if there's new crafted weapons). If they wanted Pagos to be the grindy step of the relic, it should've been part of the initial 4.3 patch release.

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Then just wait until logos comes out and Pagos is nerfed to the ground like Anemos was.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

All those steps at least incorporated some degree of variety. I can socialize or take a break in between fates, I can opt to farm different dungeons or bosses despite them not being as efficient. For example, I occasionally ran Weeping City and Dun Scaith for my Anima. They're nowhere near as fast as spamming ARF, but I love both raids. Pagos lacks even these basic attributes. If I stop at any point, the chain breaks and everyone loses a good chunk of EXP. And there is no alternative to chaining mobs. You simply do the same thing for hours on end while developing carpal tunnel from spamming the same handful of buttons over and over again. No one socializes anymore because again, that interrupts the chain. Even worse, if someone tags your mob, rip experience. Everything about Pagos punishes socialization even within your own damn party.

Only a small minority complained about the train; primarily because they couldn't get chain parties to form. That should tell you how the overall playerbase feels about chaining mobs. Despite it being a superior alternative, very few wanted to do it in Anemos. If you want to thwart AFKing, make a system where you're required to do x amount of damage to the boss instead of making it enmity based like hunts. Regardless, I couldn't care less how the devs intended for Eureka to function. Their vision is a monotonous, boring, uncreative chore. If I wanted to simply grind thousands of brainless enemies, I'd play Black Desert or Dynasty Warriors—games with far better combat for that style of gameplay. Or better yet, Monster Hunter World. Imagine if instead of cool "boss" like monsters, you were forced to kill the passive animals except they have millions of HP. MHW would be pretty damn boring. Welcome to Pagos. Instead of killing the cool bosses, we're killing trash.

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And yet we complained about choices. Its not about a matter of how "minor" a voice is, its a voice they end up hearing. And a voice they acted to cater to. Plenty of people have already said it, don't do it and let them see how bad it is based on participation.

They won't make any drastic changes unless a drastic reaction happens and the amount of changes they need to do to make Pagos as "Anemos-like" to achieve NM train benefits is way too much:

*- Remove the frosted dragons
*- reduce HP of mobs
*- change the level of mounts
*- adjust aetheryte levels so people can port earlier than 30s
*- add dailies, etc.

That already amounts to "a whole new piece of content". But if they see an overall "high" participation and positive feedback in their home-front (which is the one they actually care for) then this is what it is.

They way it is set up currently, there's no reason to go in after doing your challenge log for the week. Sure it will take a month or so, but at least you're not wasting hours for next to nothing.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

Then just wait until logos comes out and Pagos is nerfed to the ground like Anemos was.

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Moving goalposts, unless you somehow happen to know how Logos will be.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

But if they see an overall "high" participation and positive feedback in their home-front (which is the one they actually care for) then this is what it is.

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As far as I know, the JP playerbase is complaining about Pagos as well.

You want to fix Eureka? Give solo people some options. I'm tired of being unable to level up because everyone is already grouped up or higher leveled than me.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Moving goalposts, unless you somehow happen to know how Logos will be.

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How am I moving goal posts? You've been blunt about your interest in the weapon has dwindled due to short-lived enjoyment. Hence telling you to wait until its nerfed to do it if you really want to but the current situation isn't "worth it" for you.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

As far as I know, the JP playerbase is complaining about Pagos as well.

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Well, lets then see how this develops. Its the only playerbase that counts. /s

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

How am I moving goal posts? You've been blunt about your interest in the weapon has dwindled due to short-lived enjoyment. Hence telling you to wait until its nerfed to do it if you really want to but the current situation isn't "worth it" for you.

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Or, y'know, SE could actually release the relic steps earlier in a patch, like they did with the ARR and HW relics. Those were ''worth it'' to me, since I grinded out multiple of those pre-nerf (and even a few post-nerf, for the looks).

There are so many things that could be improved in Pagos, in addition to what's already been said:

Increase the number of treasure chests
Yes, Anemos had too many. But now Pagos has too few. If I'm getting so few chests now, I want there to be something REALLY good in them -- not cherry confetti. I'm sure you can find a nice middle-ground regarding chest drop rate. Especially since it's now much faster to open them.

Put valuable items in the chests
I was excited to do Anemos because I came out with a truckload of chests and perhaps one of those would be a T-rex! I'm sad that Pagos doesn't at least get a snowy Mylodon mount :( -- complete with a snowball throwing action!

There's no reason to explore
I want to explore this frozen wasteland and find unique treasures. I don't even mind there being some element of danger where I have to sneak. But I know that if I go into an area much higher level than I am, I'm going to die and get that huge XP penalty, so there's no way I want to go wandering off! I am an adventurer! Let me adventure!

The bunnies are a gimmicky joke
Here's a thing that leads you to rare treasure -- at the edge of a death cliff riddled with monsters! Oh and not everyone gets the treasure in a FATE that so few people do because it doesn't give XP. Come on, SE -- more carrot, less stick!

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

There are so many things that could be improved in Pagos, in addition to what's already been said:

Increase the number of treasure chests
Yes, Anemos had too many. But now Pagos has too few. If I'm getting so few chests now, I want there to be something REALLY good in them -- not cherry confetti. I'm sure you can find a nice middle-ground regarding chest drop rate. Especially since it's now much faster to open them. [/I][/B]

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For instance, crafting and gathering materia, mostly tier V. The devs want us spending so much time in Pagos, and some of us are still working on melding our crafters and gatherers in preparation for 4.4. A little relief for those of us with less time than others would be beneficial, whether by directly supplying us with more or by putting extra supply of Command Vs on the MB to meet the current demand.

Also, normal quality potions that boost our mob exp in Eureka. Make it uncommon, sure, but make it an option in the loot pool for people not doing the Bunny FATEs nor buying off the MB at this present time.

RE: the potions - I think that's why they gave elemental xp fairies throughout Pagos - so that you would have an option rather than buying off the MB.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

Then just wait until logos comes out and Pagos is nerfed to the ground like Anemos was.

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Waiting months for newly released content to finally become enjoyable isn't a solution to the problem of it being unfun right now, and that's a ridiculous thing to tell people to do in a game with recurring fee to play.

That's like telling the people who bought No Man's Sky at launch two years ago that the game would be better in two years if only they would wait. That's utterly ridiculous to expect.

We want something fun, or at the very least tolerable. Anemos was tolerable. Pagos is neither, and we want it fixed so that we can at least tolerate doing it instead of hating the content and Squeenix for putting relics behind it. And especially because in general we KNOW how to make it tolerable, that's really not a lot for a paying customer base to ask for.

I went in to pagos for chain farming for 3 hours when it first launched.... and I haven't touched it since. It is simply too boring and too unrewarding to be worth the effort, not to mention it actively discourages helping other parties because chain timing is so strict because every trash mob is an HP sponge. I had trouble getting rezs when I was literally right outside the starting base.

This feels like the Japanese devs had a tantrum and are now punishing us for doing things in anemos in ways they didn't want us to. "Wait what? The players are doing the most efficient way to level in this boring grind fest we made? Nope, not allowed! They have to do it OUR way: chain until your hands hurt too much to move!"

Man I had a lot of fun chaining mobs a running NMs today. Maybe this content isnt for you if you font like to grind mobs. If they do boost nm ceap they also need to boost the chain bonus for people who actually want to work for things and not ride others backs. If anything, they need to increase the item level of the reward. Also, item-poppable NMs.

Seems like most of you just want pagos easy mode. Makes me sick.

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Originally Posted by Wyvernheart

Man I had a lot of fun chaining mobs a running NMs today. Maybe this content isnt for you if you font like to grind mobs. If they do boost nm ceap they also need to boost the chain bonus for people who actually want to work for things and not ride others backs. If anything, they need to increase the item level of the reward. Also, item-poppable NMs.

Seems like most of you just want pagos easy mode. Makes me sick.

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Fun is relative, and most of us want "fun mode" Pagos, as whatever the consensus might be for that. For the majority of us that means mobs that aren't so damage spongy, more convenience for getting to and from our farming spots, more thought to the fights we partake in, and a better sense of rewards. If Pagos, as it stands, is to your liking then that's great, but there are other games that do this sort of system leagues better. FFXIV is not those games, clearly.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

Then just wait until logos comes out and Pagos is nerfed to the ground like Anemos was.

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If everyone adopted that idea, FFXIV would be long dead. Telling players to wait until the already delayed content gets nerfed because the next step came along is an abysmal design philosophy.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

And yet we complained about choices. Its not about a matter of how "minor" a voice is, its a voice they end up hearing. And a voice they acted to cater to. Plenty of people have already said it, don't do it and let them see how bad it is based on participation.

They won't make any drastic changes unless a drastic reaction happens and the amount of changes they need to do to make Pagos as "Anemos-like" to achieve NM train benefits is way too much:

*- Remove the frosted dragons
*- reduce HP of mobs
*- change the level of mounts
*- adjust aetheryte levels so people can port earlier than 30s
*- add dailies, etc.

That already amounts to "a whole new piece of content". But if they see an overall "high" participation and positive feedback in their home-front (which is the one they actually care for) then this is what it is.

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Correction, we complained about certain aspects. The Atma step was an awful grind yet they've responded four times later with a comparably awful grind their combat system cannot properly handle. Either the dev team is too draft to realize people don't enjoy tedious grinds with extremely slow progression point or they simply didn't care to put forth any effort. Regardless, I do agree people should abandon Pagos and let the damn thing rot.

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Originally Posted by Wyvernheart

Seems like most of you just want pagos easy mode. Makes me sick.

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Because Pagos is difficult? Intense gameplay hitting training dummies for 3 hours...

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Originally Posted by Wyvernheart

Man I had a lot of fun chaining mobs a running NMs today. Maybe this content isnt for you if you font like to grind mobs. If they do boost nm ceap they also need to boost the chain bonus for people who actually want to work for things and not ride others backs. If anything, they need to increase the item level of the reward. Also, item-poppable NMs.

Seems like most of you just want pagos easy mode. Makes me sick.

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Pagos isn't difficult. Pagos is repetition. Over and over and over and over and over and over again. Literally the same 10 actions, the same sort of thing you can memorise by grade school. If you think this is "difficult" I can only imagine how hard you think filing a stack of paperwork or pulling weeds would be.

Edit: and before "it's only the same 10 if you don't change it up" that's literally the same thing as SE handing us a bucket of chalk and saying "amuse yourself drawing on the sidewalk". If I wanted to create my own fun, I'd buy a .99 bucket of chalk and go outside, not pay $15 for do-it-yourself content.

- SE should of expanded upon the popular way of playing Anemos, and just added more variation to fates. Making some kind of a unique gameplay challenge to the final boss would be fun! Learn from Ratholos. People like Ratholos, because its fun, and unique.

- Lightfarming was absolutely LOATHED. To put it back is just a spit in the face to what we were complaining about. At the very least make it enjoyable.

- The music in the zone isn't any different. If we're going to spend months grinding the same zone, please add a new song for each, so that we don't get sick of the same old song. At the very least just reorchestrate it. An Ishgard sounding version would be a neat throwback for veteran players.

- I will say that the behemoth rewards are kinda nice, and that they are one of the GOOD things in dungeon. Bringing back old gear for all classes is brilliant. That's what they got right.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

We got an expert over here!

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I am so sick of comment baiting in the second comments. :l

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Originally Posted by Wyvernheart

Seems like most of you just want pagos easy mode. Makes me sick.

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Let's get this straight right now because I keep seeing comments like this come up: difficulty is not the same thing as tedium.

Pagos isn't hard. Not by a longshot. Even your most basic fresh-off-the-boat player with a rudimentary understanding of their class could walk into Pagos as a fresh 70 and complete the content start to finish with enough willpower.

The thing people are complaining about is the overall tediousness and boring nature of the content. We don't mind things being challenging as long as those things are fun. Pagos isn't challenging OR fun. It's just a slog through a bunch of repetitive crap, and if the relic wasn't tied to it, no one would subject themselves to it at all because of how badly designed it is. And short of a full-on redesign (which is asking too much at this point), there's only so many ways it can be fixed to be made enjoyable. Hence this thread.

The NM train in Anemos is the key factor that made that zone tolerable because it gave players a way to be engaged in the content. The train wasn't particularily great, but it was more fun than anything that is currently going on in Pagos and if that didn't exist, Anemos would be just as unbearable as Pagos is now. If players have to come up with ways to make your content tolerable, then the design of the content is bad. The onus is on the developer to make enjoyable content that people WANT to do, not the player to "play it right" when it is terrible by nature.

People die all the time in Pagos. Some of it I know is no fault of their own. Usually a party member screws the whole party over. This is a game where individuals manage to wipe out half an alliance in 24 man raids (yes, I've seen it) and people position themselves between both of the other grand companies in Frontlines (Yes, I've seen it). People are going to die, and it will be difficult for them. It's no easier than a 24 man raid, though.

Tell me any content that you think is fun, and I will tell you what is not fun about it. Even if I like the content overall, I can definitely come up with some things.

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Originally Posted by Lumis_Arvalo

Let's get this out of the way right up front. The only reason Anemos really worked as content is because people found enjoyment in running around as a giant group of players killing monsters and spawning bosses to kill. Regardless of whether or not that was the "correct" way to do it, that's what the players came up with to make the content fun and engaging for them, and basically removing that style of play from Pagos is the primary reason why the majority of players are not happy. Anemos should have taught SE that running around and spawning giant bosses that have actual interesting mechanics to kill should be the primary feature of the content, so the number one fix for Pagos should be to increase the NM spawn rates back to Anemos levels, or even higher.

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I do not agree, at all.

Those FATE are pretty much the same as Hunts. And the majority of people don't like hunt no more than those FATE train. They'd rather do that than grind endlessly with a gameplay not suited for that.

And I do not agree that players aren't happy with Pagos because they removed FATE. The aren't happy because it's the exactly the same thing Anemos was, but worse. We were advertising new features. They delivered bunny FATE, and that's pretty much it.

To fix Pagos, they should rework it excluding both the major grind and the FATE train.

Either make it an Abyssea or a mix between ZNM/Sky type of content. Both are open zone, but designed for group/alliance rather than train. There is a little grind involved, to farm NM trigger pop mostly, but it's very manageable.

You can keep the area as it is, mostly. Just make those FATE forced pop and exclusive for the party/alliance that poped it, and with a ~5 mins respawn timer.
NM trigger could be farm from mobs, randomly found in coffers, rewards from quests...anything really.

Reduce the death penalty, but keep it. I believe death penalty is a good thing, so we can feel a sense of danger in the open world, and that way players tends to be helping each other more, forging a stronger community.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

If everyone adopted that idea, FFXIV would be long dead. Telling players to wait until the already delayed content gets nerfed because the next step came along is an abysmal design philosophy.

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And its been on repeat since 2.0. And it also seems to work for them.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Correction, we complained about certain aspects. The Atma step was an awful grind yet they've responded four times later with a comparably awful grind their combat system cannot properly handle. Either the dev team is too draft to realize people don't enjoy tedious grinds with extremely slow progression point or they simply didn't care to put forth any effort. Regardless, I do agree people should abandon Pagos and let the damn thing rot.

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"If at first you don't succeed, try and try again". Amirite? There's only so many times when this can be effective and they won't make drastic changes if they don't see drastic results. They obviously see they can implement this because worst case, people will wait until nerfs. And Yoshi has been pretty open about their catch up philosophy. So, why keep bantering and circle-jerking the idea that if you keep protesting enough they will listen? Unless its money lost, all you're doing is wording.

So yeah, instead of insisting: just let it rot. Us few who are there will make the most of it.

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Originally Posted by Yzuna

-snip-

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Might as well ask them to make pagos an boss rush gauntlet instance. /facepalm

First thing they can do to fix Pagos is get rid of the timer in it. Timer servers no purpose when you can enter again right after you leave. Next thing Put ones coming in with others just coming in and not with ones where there time is about up. You get in a party lasts 30 minute and then have to leave because 70% of them in the instance is out of time. Be nice if they create a duty finder for it. Where it match ones that is same level for party groups. Next make the NM's in there spawn more often you need crystals from them for weapon upgrade but hardly ever see any.

Even if they do not get rid of the timers, make a way to be able to get more time added when grinding or killing a nm.

They need to increase amount time ones get with chains and make it so can have longer chains than 30 for more exp. and light.

I agree with most of these points thank you. My biggest thing right now is I have spent at least a total of 10 hours from 30 onward simply looking for groups. Like I try to solo mobs while waiting but its just really not that efficient, also you need a group to spawn louhi. and once again sitting here for hours looking for a group to spawn louhi I don't need more light I need louhi crystals, its just so infuriating to me, that I can't do what I need to do here to get my weapon cause I can't find a group! maybe it'll get easier to find a group when there are more people at higher lvls but still its just silly. And if I can't find a group or a group is already spawning louhi and there isn't room for me, I'm resigned to just sit here at icepoint afk and pray to the twelve they get it to spawn. Like group chaining for hours is brutal but solo chaining is even more brutal, I can only mentally take so much of that. If there is going to be content that needs to be done in a group plz plz make it easier to play with others. At least in Anemos you could group up with a bunch of random lvls and spam kill shit to spawn it, I would rather be in a train then sit here afk hoping to find a party.... :(((((


I'm definitely ranting and upset right now cause I'm currently in a ongoing 2+ hour wait to find a group or at least kill louhi, so if i'm not thinking rationally that's why.

also I have only gotten brilliant and newborn star once ever from corpses. every single other has been feeble. why are lvl 40 mobs giving me feeble light literally the same as solo mobs 2 lvls below me :( also the high lvl nms still give feeble.. I honestly don't understand.

The things I'd want to most that don't involve totally redoing the system are:

1. Make the aetherytes available at the moment the NMs in their respective regions are able to give out their full reward, which would be 27 and 31 respectively.

2. Make the chance of gaining light and chance to gain above average light scale higher based on the enemy level. As far as I've noticed, the light gains from soloing 35s aren't any better then those of killing 40s partied.

3 Make Pagos crystals drop from level 36+ enemies, with higher rates/amounts on higher levels.

4. NMs should be guaranteed spawns once their kill count requirement is met. I don't care if the requirements are four times higher then Anemos if the things at least show up consistently.

It seems like Pagos would have been a great place for some daily quests and. . . GASP. . Battle Leves. Imagine going out with your levequest to specifically target a certain number of specific mobs with the chance a NM that only your group could do.

It would certainly break the monotony, and could help with solo play.

I think they knew full well what they were giving out with Pagos. The only reason i can think is that they wanted the players occupied to the point where they would be stuck doing their relic grind up until the next patch released. I see no reason to believe they will make any monumental changes to this. At least not until the next patch is directly in line of sight and no concern of unsubbing.

Considering the fact that players are doing it (myself included) it is to be frank a successful move. The lack of acknowledgement and response to any of this Pagos backlash tells me they knew this was coming and decided to weather it. No dev posts, No community team response. Nothing.

Honestly, just make Pagos like Anemos and then include daily/weekly quests and key item/Treasure Hunt NM's that only the party spawning them can fight.

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Originally Posted by OzumaKuma

I think they knew full well what they were giving out with Pagos. The only reason i can think is that they wanted the players occupied to the point where they would be stuck doing their relic grind up until the next patch released. I see no reason to believe they will make any monumental changes to this. At least not until the next patch is directly in line of sight and no concern of unsubbing.

Considering the fact that players are doing it (myself included) it is to be frank a successful move. The lack of acknowledgement and response to any of this Pagos backlash tells me they knew this was coming and decided to weather it. No dev posts, No community team response. Nothing.

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To be fair, that was their approach to Diadem too. Look how well that turned out for them. Without Ultimate, 4.4 will not have the standing power for a lot of raiders that previous tiers did, especially since everyone knows 4.5 will come with a massive content drought like 3.5. Considering instances of Pagos continuously die—so much they are being repeatedly recycled. I have to wonder if their gamble is actually working. Sadly, SE is a very reactive company. They don't say or do anything until shit hits the fan so hard they have no choice.

- Increase the rewards for mob grinding parties by implementing something like dailies with the addition of repeatable exp tasks for killing x amount of mobs of a specific element (Fields of Valor from Final Fantasy XI).

- Improve the exp rewards from FATEs, chains and mob mutations.

- Introduce an option for players who have already completed the content, to Level Sync, so they can support other players.

- Going forward they should consider Introducing a prestige mode that encourages players to go back for better rewards (obtainable gear/items). Increase stats and exp, too.

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Originally Posted by Wyvernheart

Seems like most of you just want pagos easy mode. Makes me sick.

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Get well soon!

As long as the changes doesn't give the mass majority of the player base all their relics within a few weeks to where Pagos dies afterward. I do agree that the bunny fate should give xp since only a few have a shot at getting a bunny to follow around and possibly get a coffer. I do agree that the chain timer should increase since it would take the pressure off chain groups. Most groups i've been in dispand after reaching chain 30 since everyone gets burned out.

At this point it would still be nice to see the monsters be less beefy for chain parties, for the Geothermal (northwest) aetheryte to be brought down to level 27, for light to be increased across the board, for the Mutation drops to be more frequent, for Cassie to have a better drop rate for that earring, and (most importantly) for a party-player sync to be implemented so that it's easier for groups to form.


Also, I had a thought regarding the bunny FATEs and the idea of daily quests:

Have a daily quest in place where someone goes and does either of the FATEs. The reward is a choice of exp or a frosted protean (or at least half of the light towards one). That way, regardless of whether or not it's seen as optimal, it'll raise the activity of those two FATEs a fair deal while also benefiting people who bother with them at least once per day.

All I really want, now that the XP gains are in a level I can deal with it, is to get rid of the whole level disparity punishment.
I literally cannot do both: farm the amount I want to and play together with my SO. Since my SO is not willing to spend as much time in one zone and just grind mobs that will either force me to heavily slow down on my desired pace or leave my partner that I have for 5 years behind in the game we love to play together. Forcing such a decision is just outright ridiculous to me.

hmmm, after seeing a interview what was done on gamescon, i do worry about the future of FFXIV

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._and_soken_at/

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Eureka: Pagos
Q: Regarding Eureka: Pagos, which was added recently. The equipment upgrades feel a bit more difficult than they were in Anemos. Or does it only feel harder because Anemos was too easy?

Yoshida: I don't think it was too easy, but Anemos had an interesting playstyle. The players who went in first probably farmed mobs really fast, raised their elemental level, started hunting NMs when they were close to the level cap, and hit cap that way. While they were doing that, they gathered crystals and upgraded their weapons.

The players who started later spawned NMs one after the other and leveled while upgrading their weapons. The players who rode that wave probably didn't do much mob farming. Since players came in two waves, they see it in different ways. The players who went in first this time probably also went in first last time, so they'll use trial and error while chaining mobs and figuring out how to use mutations and environmental adaptations effectively. This time, the people who farmed NMs are starting at the same time, so they're questioning why they have to farm mobs to upgrade their weapons.

Q: So they can't just use the same methods in Pagos that they were using in Anemos.

Yoshida: The most efficient way of increasing EL still hasn't been found. This time, the trick is to make efficient use of mutations and adaptations while chaining, but maybe it was a bit too hard to figure out. The people who are waiting on NM spawns don't want to farm regular mobs because of their Anemos experience, and are dissatisfied because they just want to hunt NMs.

So, with the last patch, we didn't really increase the NM spawn rate, but we increased the amount of EXP they give. It's not as effective as it was in Anemos, but you can still wait for NM spawns if you want to. But for the weapon upgrades, your predecessors spent a lot of time and effort farming mobs to grow stronger, so we won't ease up on that. Please learn how to do that. It kind of feels like even though people ask for change, they're upset when there is change.

The person who directed Eureka's battle content this time said to me, "Yoshida, in 1.0 when you changed the MP cost of WHM's Cure III, even though it made it a better game, people complained that they couldn't spam Cure III without running out of MP anymore. I remembered how they criticized that the balance was broken. Instead of making sudden big changes, should we change things to how they should be through several steps?" But as we learned from Diadem, if you're too moderate then that doesn't get across either; people's impressions won't change unless you make dramatic changes. If you're going to triple the EXP, then you should do it in one go. I left Japan after telling them that.

So, I think that the feel of Pagos will change again. It's really hard to make new rules for a game within a game. But that's precisely why we're taking on this challenge, so that we can receive feedback and create content that can be enjoyed in a variety of ways.

Q: Rumours are that the Happy Bunny FATE increases NM spawn rate. Is this true?

Yoshida: I won't answer that; it hasn't been that long since the patch. Back in FFXI, everyone worked together to figure out how to spawn NMs. Although, the triggers are a bit difficult to figure out, and we understand that it's hard to confirm your hypotheses, so we're trying to do something about that.

However, it's still too early to give out the answers. Back in Anemos, people were still trying out different things at this point in time. But since Anemos is completely solved now, it feels frustrating that Pagos hasn't been. This is another difficult point. Part of the content's appeal is how everyone is talking it out.

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oh, also

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Q: FFXIV is about to celebrate it's 5th anniversary since ARR. Could you tell us about the journey until now and what you hope to see in the next 5 years?

Yoshida: A lot of the European media outlets asked me that question this year, but I actually don't have much to say.

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basically he doesn't have plans for the future of ffxiv as how i see it from that answer

Well, if that interview is anything to go by, they aren't listening.

This part left me feeling angry (no other word for it):

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So, with the last patch, we didn't increase the NM spawn rate to as much as it was before [in Anemos], but we increased the amount of EXP they give. It's not as effective as it was in Anemos, but you can still wait for NM spawns if you want to. But for the weapon upgrades, your predecessors spent a lot of time and effort farming mobs to grow stronger, so we won't ease up on that. Please learn how to do that

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Edit: Translation error in the above quote has been corrected

I admit I was wondering about that. After spending a good bit of time in there this week, I felt the NMs were still thin on the ground.

It looks like they don't want to annoy those people who got stuck into the grind early. However, I don't think that should be a major consideration. For the people who enjoyed the grinding in Pagos, the gameplay should be regarded as part of their reward. They had their fun, playing how they chose.
However, since a large number of people dislike Pagos and some even refuse to do it, despite wanting the reward at the end, then something needs to be done. Keeping grinding as the most effective way of levelling just because some people chose to deliberately suffer through it when Pagos was first released, makes no sense to me. It also completely ignores the fact that getting a group of people all at the right level to do that grinding is far from easy (especially if you don't play at peak times). It also stops us playing with our friends.

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'Please learn how to do that'

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Why? Why should we learn to play in a way that doesn't appeal to us and in some cases is causing physical injury or making existing conditions worse? That really came across as condescending.
And there is nothing to 'learn'. This is exactly the same as the Diadem - hitting mobs with huge HP pools until your hands hurt. At least Diadem gave you plenty of rewards, so in some respects Pagos is worse. Grinding mobs is not complex, not engaging and it doesn't require learning. I guess what they are telling us is that we're doing it wrong. So much for listening to the players.
After this, I really don't have a lot of faith that we are going to see any meaningful change and that is a real shame because the community has come up with a lot of ideas that would make this content better.

This sounds like Blizzard when they started to get negative feedback over their Warlords of Draenor Expansion. They said the players were doing it wrong, they didn't know what fun was etc. etc. They had their vision and they were sticking to it. Ironically it was that attitude that made me jump ship and come here.