Duty Recorder Forgotten?

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Originally Posted by Dzian

As I and many others have said many times. People want rewards that feel valuable and worth something and wont just be tossed the next patch.. Even If you take 370 savage gear what really is it useful or needed for? Everything in the game can be easily smashed with gear 20-30 item levels lower than that.. So you don't need that gear for anything current. And it will be trash when 4.4 lands and people can just buy or craft 380 stuff. Or get it from the normal raids. Thus the gear has no purpose or value.. Which is why these topics keep coming up...

.... which is why people often say glamour is the endgame. Because it's the only thing that has any form of value.

Which is why quite a few players will put significantly more effort into getting a glamour piece than they will getting one that is actually an upgrade..

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I'm confused - you never actually answered my question, just restated that you "and many others" feel like the ilvl bump from raid gear isn't worth it because it gets replaced. I get that, you've been a bit of a broken record about it, but I asked what would make it worth it to you.

Based on the part of your post responding to Cass I'm going to assume unique glamor items feel more "worth it" to you because you say it is "the only thing that has any form of value".

EX primals offer unique weapons you can't find elsewhere as well as items for crafting minions and housing items not to mention mounts, all of those are potential vanity items even though the weapons also have value as upgrades. Personally I will be using the Tsukuyomi rapier for a long time as glamour even after it outlives it's usefulness as a weapon.

Savage offers unique weapon and armor sets unobtainable by any other means as well as a mount upon completion of the last tier. While I don't find much of the sigma gear particularly exciting looking I know some people who do.

These items all serve a dual purpose of being unique in appearance and being an upgrade to stats... why are they excluded from your "glamour has value" statement?

I agree - the stats are useless, particularly to someone who doesn't specifically care about completing the content you need to do to get those stats to begin with. If the hardest thing you do is Ridorana of course you don't need 100 more Intelligence. To people who min max though? Or people who want to do as well as they possibly can? Yes, that matters.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Regarding gear though. It may be true you don't see many dedicated skill speed builds or something but its equally true that many people just don't care for the stats in general.
"Oh my current body is 350 this one is 360 I'll buy and equip it."
What the stats are isn't even considered because I level is the only one that really matters. No one's cares if the 350 body had crit and the 360 has skill speed instead. All they look at is the item level Another reason why gear is cheap , dull and most players still never really invest and meld it.

Compare it to say glamour. Where people will often spend tens of millions of gil on a glamour item or 30 million gil on a pegasus whistle because it's worth something to them. But spend 100k on materia to improve there stats on there gear. No chance. Waste of money.... which is why people often say glamour is the endgame. Because it's the only thing that has any form of value.

Which is why quite a few players will put significantly more effort into getting a glamour piece than they will getting one that is actually an upgrade..

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If you actually raided or crafted, you would know how wrong such a sentiment is. Bard and Monk both use i350 pentamelded crafted accessories (Bracelet and Ring, respectively). Tank alternates i370 and i350. If you care anything about min/maxing, which plenty of raiders do, you absolutely care about those secondary stats because the whole idea is squeezing even more damage. Furthermore, the materia market is arguably the most consistent sale outside consumables. Looking at the Cactuar market, all three Direct Hit, Crit and Determination grade VI materia were bought until the page spilled over just this morning. If you think people wouldn't pay 100k, then you weren't paying attention before Cracked Crystals became commonplace. Even now, they routinely sell for 60-70k at the beginning of a tier, only to come down later on. Crafting and Gathering materia frequently sell for over 200-300k depending on the server.

People pay millions for glamour due to impatience and caring more about their character's appearance. The Ao Dai was once five million. Now? Not even one million anymore.

As Moro said above. If you care only about dungeons, of course nothing but ilvl matters. That content isn't intended to be anything except mindless chill. If you approach Savage, and care about improving as a player. You will care about your secondaries.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I'm confused - you never actually answered my question, just restated that you "and many others" feel like the ilvl bump from raid gear isn't worth it because it gets replaced. I get that, you've been a bit of a broken record about it, but I asked what would make it worth it to you.

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Sorry I thought I had answered. all I really want is for things to feel worth it.
How nice it'd be to get some stuff and know it won't be obsolet junk the instant a new patch lands.

How they'd do that I'm not to bothered about. I don't want xi style gear swaps or anything that extreme.

One quickly thought up way would be to drop the patch gear down a tier..
If for example 4.4 landed and the normal raid gear was 370 and the new crafted stuff was also 370, then straight away any 370 gear I have now will actually hold some value into the next patch instead of instantly being trash. My tomes of whatever they'd be could start working on 380 gear instead of 390. My normal raid drops could be used to gear classes still not in 370...

It's not perfect could probably use some tweaks but it's literally something I just thought up in like 2 minutes.. but it would increase the value and longevity of gear and ensure it is still relevant when the next patfh lands...

Would also allow players to keep multiple jobs geared to to higher standard rather all your gear being trash before you've even finished gearing 2 or 3 jobs..

All players really want is to not feel like everything they've done has been rendered worthless as soon as a new patch lands i think....

Rewards this, rewards that...
I remember when games were about PLAYING them, who cares if the gear is trash if the fights themselves are still fun? Ultimate's rewards are worthless outside of vanity yet people still do the fight, I wonder why...

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Ignoring all of the ither issues I have with your statememt I just want to know what sort if rewards world make raiding worth it for you?

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I'm not the one you asked this to but there are things I'd definitely take.

• Weapon Glamours
• Armor Glamours
• Mounts
• Minions
• Furniture
• Music

Basically non-gear items, themed to the raid and bosses of course. Items that aren't thrown away last because of item level. If those kinds of things were added I'd probably have more interest. Like the Field Commander boots from Seal Rock. I tried extra hard just to get those lol.

No matter how long of a break I take, the boots will still be here waiting for me while raid gear would be trash!

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Originally Posted by Ameela

Rewards this, rewards that...
I remember when games were about PLAYING them, who cares if the gear is trash if the fights themselves are still fun? Ultimate's rewards are worthless outside of vanity yet people still do the fight, I wonder why...

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Based on replies in other threads, Dzian wants the prestige attached to the items. When players can go back an expansion later and unsync for the same rewards, he feels the prestige is lost. In my opinion, it's all about materialistic value and status.

The only one who can devalue an accomplishment is oneself, and if anyone's achievements are devalued the minute someone gets it via "an easier way", then the achievement only mattered when one could hold it over the head of others in the first place. It wasn't about them having fun or proving to themselves "I can do this", and I disagree with pursuing things only so you can brag about "being better". I do harder content for the challenge and the fun, and when I clear, I've proven to myself that I can do it. Someone doing the fight two years later at 10 levels higher doesn't take that away, nor should it.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

I'm not the one you asked this to but there are things I'd definitely take.

• Weapon Glamours
• Armor Glamours
• Mounts
• Minions
• Furniture
• Music

Basically non-gear items, themed to the raid and bosses of course. Items that aren't thrown away last because of item level. If those kinds of things were added I'd probably have more interest. Like the Field Commander boots from Seal Rock. I tried extra hard just to get those lol.

No matter how long of a break I take, the boots will still be here waiting for me while raid gear would be trash!

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To be fair, Savage already has the glamours and the mounts (Coil has the music but Alexander's were made obtainable via story mode; minions were made available in both story mode and Savage). The stats on Midan gear are useless now, same with Coil or Alexandrian gear or even UCoB weapons, but people still use the pieces for Glamour. Unless you're meaning level 1 Glamour pieces...which, in my opinion wouldn't be much different than the actual gear. The NIN savage body for Sigmascape is hot garbage stat-wise, but gorgeous for glamour, so I know a several of my NIN friends/acquaintances that rolled on it just for Glamour.

And I believe Gordias dropped items that you could use for a few craftable housing items.

To get back on the proper subject, I would REALLY love it if they would just expand the Duty Recorder to ALL party related duties, whether it be a dungeon, Trial (normal or EX), or raid (Normal or Savage) Even stuff such as PotD and HoH should be included (if not all of it, maybe just the boss floors)
There are certain things that you can do in the Duty Recorder that you can't do just by recording your footage with a recording program, such as adjust camera angles and such.

IMO, however, if they really aren't gonna do anything more with Duty Recorder, then they should just remove it alltogether.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

To be fair, Savage already has the glamours and the mounts (Coil has the music but Alexander's were made obtainable via story mode; minions were made available in both story mode and Savage). The stats on Midan gear are useless now, same with Coil or Alexandrian gear or even UCoB weapons, but people still use the pieces for Glamour. Unless you're meaning level 1 Glamour pieces...which, in my opinion wouldn't be much different than the actual gear. The NIN savage body for Sigmascape is hot garbage stat-wise, but gorgeous for glamour, so I know a several of my NIN friends/acquaintances that rolled on it just for Glamour.

And I believe Gordias dropped items that you could use for a few craftable housing items.

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I was referring to things more... unique. You mentioned Alexander. A reward like say, a Faust armor set and weapon(weapon for DRG though). I mean the actual armor. None of the raider sets look spectacular to me.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Based on replies in other threads, Dzian wants the prestige attached to the items. When players can go back an expansion later and unsync for the same rewards, he feels the prestige is lost. In my opinion, it's all about materialistic value and status.

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Could be worse.

Other games have rubbish drop rates, for everything. The entire point of raiding in those games is to get those rare drops (usually to sell on the auction house), and if it doesn't drop... welp just wasted hours.

The raids in FFXIV are typically done in 1/8th the allotted time or less. So you can either run the raid again with the same people, or everyone can change their gear/role loadout and try again. For FFXIV, people have no patience. It's "instant gratification or bust", and the rare drop often isn't even that rare. You might get it by playing it enough just because everyone else has it already. (All the minions are this way.)

When it comes to prestige, I have to laugh a bit. It's one thing to clear the content, at release, it's another to clear it after it's become outgeared and spoiled. If you simply want the clear, unsynced runs do that, and you never have to play it again. It's a tick box on the achievement list nothing more.

That's the kind of thing that makes prestige worthless. Carried clears or cheated clears with tools dilute the meaning of clearing it. If you clear Coil when it was new, that was a goal that you could set, and hopefully get people to play it. If ever tried to PUG it in 2.x, people just gave up at any wipe. That's is, and remains, content that people are unwilling to play synced, let alone minimum ilevel. The EX primals, going into any of them now, you can solo them. Why would anyone bother waiting for a party to do a synced run, let alone a minimum ilevel.

So for the few people who actually earned their clear, they want that clear to mean something. If people can just buy their clear, get carried through a clear, or get their clear by some other unskillful way, it makes that clear meaningless.

If the game had some meaningful way of evaluating how content was cleared, and not simply "achievement obtained + minion/mount acquired", maybe it would matter.

For example, let's say that you get the achievement only for a synced clear, the mount for a synced clear under a specific time, and the gear only by not having any KO's. People would be upset if they can't hit the skill level requirements. Which is why I've said a few times that the ability to run content unsynced should require a synced (no echo) clear first. Unsynced is for farming everything else.

I'd actually endorse SE having some kind of public "score card" for each duty that shows how a certain piece of content was cleared on each server. eg "200 players synced clear (level 50), 1200 players unsynced clear (level 60, 3.0), 2000 players unsynced clear (level 70, 4.0), 100 players minimum ilevel"

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Originally Posted by gothikka

To get back on the proper subject, I would REALLY love it if they would just expand the Duty Recorder to ALL party related duties, whether it be a dungeon, Trial (normal or EX), or raid (Normal or Savage) Even stuff such as PotD and HoH should be included (if not all of it, maybe just the boss floors)
There are certain things that you can do in the Duty Recorder that you can't do just by recording your footage with a recording program, such as adjust camera angles and such.

IMO, however, if they really aren't gonna do anything more with Duty Recorder, then they should just remove it alltogether.

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I hope SE realizes that it has more value if it can be used on -ALL- content. It may not be practical to do it for things like FATES/NM's but it should be available to all content that is in the duty finder.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

One quickly thought up way would be to drop the patch gear down a tier..
If for example 4.4 landed and the normal raid gear was 370 and the new crafted stuff was also 370, then straight away any 370 gear I have now will actually hold some value into the next patch instead of instantly being trash. My tomes of whatever they'd be could start working on 380 gear instead of 390. My normal raid drops could be used to gear classes still not in 370...

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And what reason do people have to even look at Normal mode then? I have multiple sets of i370, which means I'll do normal mode Omega once to unlock and never touch it again. Likewise, crafted gear markets completely die. No reason to purchase gear with an ilvl you already have or could easily acquire since Mendacity gear and upgrades will have no restrictions as it phases out Creation. The current system exists to incentivize both the aforementioned content. Without it, they both die.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Would also allow players to keep multiple jobs geared to to higher standard rather all your gear being trash before you've even finished gearing 2 or 3 jobs..

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How does it auto become trash if the new tome is locked? It is still useful if you want to do the normals or casual content. There is going to be a couple weeks where people doing savage are still going to be wearing old tier gear if they don't opt for crafted. A complete set of last tier gear gets you through the story and allows you to do all the new casual content (330-335) even 3-5 months later on any job you want. Even Rido is 335. I don't get the logic here.

If you make the new normal and crafted gear the same ilvl as last tier doesn't it automatically become trash per that definition? Normal would be dead really quick.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

I remember when games were about PLAYING them, who cares if the gear is trash if the fights themselves are still fun?

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They aren't. The harder the fights get, the less people who find them fun. That's why there really isn't a lot of people doing the harder endgames.

It's the game's achilles heel. You don't have to go in, watch a walkthrough video, then practice a stage in a video game over and over if its fun.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

They aren't. The harder the fights get, the less people who find them fun. That's why there really isn't a lot of people doing the harder endgames.

It's the game's achilles heel. You don't have to go in, watch a walkthrough video, then practice a stage in a video game over and over if its fun.

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I feel like I say it at least once a week at this point but just because you don't find something fun doesn't mean it isn't fun for others.

If SE wasn't seeing the participation in Savage required for them to keep putting it out at the same rate they wouldn't be. I think it's very clear at this point they have a focus on making a profit. Savage draws people in and gives them something to strive for. Just because it doesn't do that for you doesn't mean it doesn't do that for a lot of other players.

I just stepped foot in God Kefka for the very first time last night. We wiped up a storm. Everyone was talking about where we could try standing and baiting mechanics, I was getting advice on what healing I could use to meet the healcheck at the start without ripping off the tank.. it was awesome. I don't think we saw much more than a minute of the fight at a time and it was exhilarating.

Stop trying to further derail this thread with your casual elitism.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

They aren't. The harder the fights get, the less people who find them fun. That's why there really isn't a lot of people doing the harder endgames.

It's the game's achilles heel. You don't have to go in, watch a walkthrough video, then practice a stage in a video game over and over if its fun.

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Is that why people play games like Dark Souls and DMC?
Believe it or not people do find challenge fun.

I wish my gear could stay relevant for more than a few weeks at a time. I get depressed at reaching a "good enough" pinnacle of gearsets, only to have it all become obsolete and starting the same old round of gathering gil, tomes, tokens, et cetera, over again... I feel beat down more by the vicious gear cycle than by any of the fights I've chosen to do through the years.

Topic pretty much derailed. Feel sorry for the OP.